Sox talking Mookie trade with Dodgers, Padres - News & Discussion

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StuckOnYouk

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Dodgers: we can't pick up most of prices contract he's had arm issues.
Bloom: the centerpiece of the package you are giving me hasnt swung a bat in 5 months
 

Dewey'sCannon

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I think Vedugo's back issue is "concerning." Not clear what it is, but more than just a minor tweak:

From an article posted on MLB.com on 1/3/2020:
The Dodgers have been vague about Verdugo’s specific diagnosis, which has included lower back soreness and a right oblique strain. Manager Dave Roberts said Verdugo first felt back discomfort after playing on the artificial surface at Tropicana Field against the Rays in late May. He was batting .311 with an .869 OPS at the time, having replaced the injured Pollock in center field.
He continued to play through the discomfort, but his production dropped off noticeably from mid-July on, when he finished 11-for-53 (.208) with one home run and one RBI before going on the injured list on Aug. 6 with what was listed as a right oblique strain. After rehabbing in Arizona, Verdugo seemed to be nearing a return when he suffered a setback during a Minor League rehab assignment with Ogden.

I think the Red Sox would want to be particularly careful with the medicals on this before making Verdugo the centerpiece of the deal. Frankly, I was a little lukewarm on Verdugo before hearing about this, based on his high GB% and reported lack of lift in his swing, which limits his power potential (the Fangraphs scouting report from 2019 gives him a 50 FV, but also notes that he's probably mostly going to just have doubles power).

If they're not absolutely certain his back is ok, they either need a different main piece, or the other pieces need to be better. I still think they should be pushing for May as the main piece. But I think they at least need to get someone like Gray (or Gonsolin, if they think he can be a starter), especially if Price is going to LA.
 

Rovin Romine

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However, it's not logical to use your best player in a salary dump to get under the 208 tax.
"Logical?" There are only so many ways the Red Sox can actually get under the tax cap. At the end of the day, any given trade may not be the optimal use of resources, but there are a finite number of trades the team can make.

Devers/Xander has more value to the Sox at this point than Mookie - assuming Mookie wants to land the biggest contract he can, no matter what.
 

VORP Speed

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Only 1 team needs to give him that so why's it matter how many teams will? A 5 year deal would have to be like $270 million if not more.
The more interesting thought experiment is what would be the reaction to a massive 1 year contract. Let’s say 1yr/75m. Friedman has supposedly toyed with this concept in some negotiations, but never gotten one in place. Pay absolute top dollar on such a short window that the risk of decline for the player is very low and they could potentially step into the same long term contract the following year. Does Mookie make more taking a massive one year deal at 27 and then signing a long term deal at 28? This is the same bet he’s made on himself by turning down an extension. If you want to cold-bloodedly maximize your career earnings and have a tolerance for some risk, might be attractive.
 

Teachdad46

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OurF'ingCity

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Verdugo is still going to have to pass a physical.
Yeah, as jon abbey points out though these things tend to be genetic/recurring so it's possible that Verdugo might appear fine physically right now even though these issues may recur throughout his career and possibly even end it prematurely. If it's a package centered around Verdugo and Gonsolin I think you still make that trade (particularly since Gonsolin can slot right into the rotation in the spot presumably vacated by Price). But if it's just Verdugo as the main piece that seems awfully risky.
 

E5 Yaz

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The more interesting thought experiment is what would be the reaction to a massive 1 year contract. Let’s say 1yr/75m. Friedman has supposedly toyed with this concept in some negotiations, but never gotten one in place. Pay absolute top dollar on such a short window that the risk of decline for the player is very low and they could potentially step into the same long term contract the following year. Does Mookie make more taking a massive one year deal at 27 and then signing a long term deal at 28? This is the same bet he’s made on himself by turning down an extension. If you want to cold-bloodedly maximize your career earnings and have a tolerance for some risk, might be attractive.
This sort of hypothetical makes a ton more sense for a player than a five-year top of the market offer. At 32, he's not getting another mega-deal
 

The Big Red Kahuna

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If we have to take Jeter Downs, I can live with the name by also getting Alex Brady Verdugo back...
 

johnlos

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Heyman just respews the obvious sometimes with no sources. Everyone expects it now of course, but so much of this could be a smokescreen to try to get one of the Dodgers/Padres to give up one of the "untouchables", and if they don't we'll just keep him.

actions speak louder than words...
If enough of us repeat it in here maybe we can get the Giants to be a mystery third team in the mix to provoke the Dodgers and Padres

*ahem* GIANTS ARE MYSTERY THIRD TEAM???
 

Yaz4Ever

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Before sending papers to the commissioner's office, do the Sox try one more time to extend Betts? - "Mookie, we have a trade in place for you. We're getting a solid return, but would rather have you play your entire career with us. To that end, we'd like to offer you $xxx/xx years." - If he turns it down, we can't fault the ownership and can't really fault Mookie if he thinks he can do better elsewhere. I'd fill in the x's above with $380M/10 years, but your mileage may vary. I'm very reluctant to expect ownership to go over that as it's always a huge risk that long-term deals can explode due to injuries at any point.
 
Jan 31, 2020
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Before sending papers to the commissioner's office, do the Sox try one more time to extend Betts? - "Mookie, we have a trade in place for you. We're getting a solid return, but would rather have you play your entire career with us. To that end, we'd like to offer you $xxx/xx years." - If he turns it down, we can't fault the ownership and can't really fault Mookie if he thinks he can do better elsewhere. I'd fill in the x's above with $380M/10 years, but your mileage may vary. I'm very reluctant to expect ownership to go over that as it's always a huge risk that long-term deals can explode due to injuries at any point.
At this point I think the motivation of the front office to get under 208 outweighs their desire to keep Mookie Betts and David Price for the 2020 season.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Before sending papers to the commissioner's office, do the Sox try one more time to extend Betts? - "Mookie, we have a trade in place for you. We're getting a solid return, but would rather have you play your entire career with us. To that end, we'd like to offer you $xxx/xx years." - If he turns it down, we can't fault the ownership and can't really fault Mookie if he thinks he can do better elsewhere. I'd fill in the x's above with $380M/10 years, but your mileage may vary. I'm very reluctant to expect ownership to go over that as it's always a huge risk that long-term deals can explode due to injuries at any point.
If they were going to do that, they would have done it already.
 

bohous

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Interesting video of Verdugo talking about his back. Not super encouraging.

edit: video originally posted Dec 13, 2019


(also not encouraged by the Scumbag Steve cosplay)
 
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CarolinaBeerGuy

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Interesting video of Verdugo talking about his back. Not super encouraging.

edit: video originally posted Dec 13, 2019


(also not encouraged by the Scumbag Steve cosplay)
While it's not encouraging, it's also been over 7 weeks since that interview. I'm confident the Sox will do their due diligence, especially since he's rumored to be the main "get" from our side of a potential deal.
 

shanks

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really ready for this to reach its conclusion. expecting they’re squeezing every drop of the best deal available before pulling the trigger.

i do wonder if they’ve approached mookie and/or his reps to see if he had a preference btw the 2 teams. any good will could go some way in a possible resigning nxt season.

i’d like to think that mookie wants to hear every possible offer as an FA. most money in most optimal city w/ solid organization. may not be all money but rather a combination of factors. in that, i hope he thinks well of boston
 

Rough Carrigan

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really ready for this to reach its conclusion. expecting they’re squeezing every drop of the best deal available before pulling the trigger.

i do wonder if they’ve approached mookie and/or his reps to see if he had a preference btw the 2 teams. any good will could go some way in a possible resigning nxt season.

i’d like to think that mookie wants to hear every possible offer as an FA. most money in most optimal city w/ solid organization. may not be all money but rather a combination of factors. in that, i hope he thinks well of boston
I think that question would be ill advised. What if he says he's always liked San Diego better but you send him to Los Angeles because they offer better value, or vice versa? Then you look like you went out of your way to screw him. Better to be indifferent to his preference. Not as good if his preference and your choice align but not as bad if they're not aligned.
 

Bobby Zupzic

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really ready for this to reach its conclusion. expecting they’re squeezing every drop of the best deal available before pulling the trigger.

i do wonder if they’ve approached mookie and/or his reps to see if he had a preference btw the 2 teams. any good will could go some way in a possible resigning nxt season.

i’d like to think that mookie wants to hear every possible offer as an FA. most money in most optimal city w/ solid organization. may not be all money but rather a combination of factors. in that, i hope he thinks well of boston
I think the narrative that the Red Sox are hoping to preserve some degree of good will with Mookie (as opposed to taking the best return) is a little off. If we felt like Mookie's end price was a price we'd be willing to pay, then we wouldn't be trading him. From Mookie's perspective, given what Petco has done to recent signings [Machado, Hosmer], I'd much rather be in LA.
 

StuckOnYouk

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It's a business on Mookie's end just as it should be for us.
No favors, just extract the best deal for the team.
 

shanks

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good point. could easily backfire if they chose a deal opposite his preference.

i’m also not down on the sox chances to resign nxt season, assuming they are competitive in their offer. i’d be surprised if the market rate is close to his 12/$420 (reported) asking price. may be much more palatable. (whatever that may mean) my point is he and we may be surprised as to what is actually out there for him as an FA.
 

Bobby Zupzic

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good point. could easily backfire if they chose a deal opposite his preference.

i’m also not down on the sox chances to resign nxt season, assuming they are competitive in their offer. i’d be surprised if the market rate is close to his 12/$420 (reported) asking price. may be much more palatable. (whatever that may mean) my point is he and we may be surprised as to what is actually out there for him as an FA.
There seem to be legitimate assertions that Betts would simply prefer to be somewhere else all things being equal; I just don't see why we'd be gung-ho about making a move like that, nor do I think there's a ton of evidence to suggest it's super wise to invest that much in a single player. If next offseason neither Benintendi nor Verdugo are a competent CF, then sure, if we think Betts is a competent CF he's a logical target but presuming we get a RF in return I don't even know why we'd be interested in a return in the first place when there could be numerous other positions [CF, 2B, 1B, DH, SP, RP] of more import.
 

YTF

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I think that question would be ill advised. What if he says he's always liked San Diego better but you send him to Los Angeles because they offer better value, or vice versa? Then you look like you went out of your way to screw him. Better to be indifferent to his preference. Not as good if his preference and your choice align but not as bad if they're not aligned.
Yep, in a way it's like parents wanting to give their kids options when there isn't a need to.
 

brandonchristensen

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Already feels like he's gone so now it's just a formality. Root for the laundry at the end of the day, and he doesn't really care about the laundry as much as about the money, which is his right.

Maybe he comes back after the season, who knows?
 

DeadlySplitter

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the next actual news would be that the trade happened, I don't see the point of a separate intermediate news thread
 

rymflaherty

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in reference to the Dodgers link: I was pretty surprised to see of the 4 options given, the preferred package for Dodgers fans at 38% was the one that included Price.
 

Yaz4Ever

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in reference to the Dodgers link: I was pretty surprised to see of the 4 options given, the preferred package for Dodgers fans at 38% was the one that included Price.
Well, in fairness, that one has us paying at least half of Price's contract.

They seem to be higher on Verdugo than many on this board, which isn't surprising. It's normal to overvalue our prospects while undervaluing theirs.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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in reference to the Dodgers link: I was pretty surprised to see of the 4 options given, the preferred package for Dodgers fans at 38% was the one that included Price.
Why is that surprising? He's still a good pitcher, and it's not their money.

I was surprised at how relatively good the packages were (from the Sox point of view) on a Dodgers fan site. Not that I know of any reason to assume this guy knows what he's talking about, but it's encouraging as a data point w/r/t how Dodgers fans regard Mookie vs. their prospects, and therefore what kind of PR wiggle room Friedman has.
 

edoug

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in reference to the Dodgers link: I was pretty surprised to see of the 4 options given, the preferred package for Dodgers fans at 38% was the one that included Price.
They remember him from the World Series. I think they made the right choice. If healthy, Price would do well for them.

Why is that surprising? He's still a good pitcher, and it's not their money.

I was surprised at how relatively good the packages were (from the Sox point of view) on a Dodgers fan site. Not that I know of any reason to assume this guy knows what he's talking about, but it's encouraging as a data point w/r/t how Dodgers fans regard Mookie vs. their prospects, and therefore what kind of PR wiggle room Friedman has.
Yeah, this is how I feel but better stated than I did.
 

Zincman

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Ruiz took a backward step this year, not untypical of cathcer development. Really don't want him in this deal. Verdugo/Downs/+ is the best possible outcome
 

E5 Yaz

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Maybe they don't want to compete with the ratings bonanza that is the Iowa caucuses
 

Tyrone Biggums

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For what its worth Jim Bowden says that Gonsolin is not part of the package.
 
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