Alright. That’s 350 posts. For the love of god, can we please now talk about Chapman honking his mom’s boob on Instagram?
Sox sign Aroldis Chapman
- Thread starter soxhop411
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This to me is much weirder than police being called on a domestic violence accusation only to state in their report that there was no such evidence. Much less common too. Wtf is he doing?
Cultural thing, according to NJ.com, where I got the photo. Quotes Cuban sportswriter Alfie Alvarez: “it’s normal to do it in Cuba with your mother and grandmother as a joke.”
Alvarez added: “It’s a big deal in the U.S. what Chapman did, but for Cubans, it is normal to grab your mother’s breasts and slap her [butt]. It’s not a sexual thing. It’s really not a big deal for us, but we understand it’s not a good look from people who don’t know our culture.”
Also discharged his pistol 8 times. In a garage. That had to have been terrifying
It’s understandably overshadowed by what a POS Chapman is, but I’m confused by the baseball operations side of this too. If the Sox were reasonably expected to contend for a title in 2025, I could see shelling out $10m+ for a lefty bullpen arm that might be able to close but is better suited for an 2003/2004 Alan Embree-type role. But while it’s possible they land Soto and others that make them a vast improvement over the 2024 team, I don’t see how you can presently look at us as contenders now, making the signing puzzling to me outside of the obvious issues.
Every team needs 3-4 relievers whom the manager trusts to get outs in late-and-close situations. The only returning guy who fits that description is Slaten, assuming we can’t assume Hendriks or Whitlock will both be good to go. So they need to sign at least a couple relievers, in addition to whatever bigger moves they might make (Soto, Crochet, Burnes, et al.).
That said, this signing suggests that the payroll in 2025 will be materially higher than in 2024 — because I agree, spending $10M on a set-up guy (which is what Chapman is at this point) makes no sense if payroll is going to stay flat or rise only in proportion to inflation.
Devil's advocate...Do you wait until guys start dropping off the board? This FO has been eviscerated for the past few seasons for it's inactivity. Are we now looking to them to approach the season as if they may not contend?
Not really going to add anything to the morale debate about Chapman. He's signed. Irrespective of how I or anyone feels about it, it's done.
From a baseball perspective this is clearly a good move. Boston's bullpen was terrible at generating swings and misses, Chapman is exceptional at that. He walks entirely too many people, but he's still a very good reliver. Going into this offseason, my hope was to do the following:
From a baseball perspective this is clearly a good move. Boston's bullpen was terrible at generating swings and misses, Chapman is exceptional at that. He walks entirely too many people, but he's still a very good reliver. Going into this offseason, my hope was to do the following:
- 2 SPs, one of them being a number 1/2
- Preference would be Freid or Snell (too bad)
- The 2nd starter could have been a "lab guy" someone whom they believe they can develop; critical that this is doesn't happen with out the top of the rotation guy
- 2 high leverage relievers
- Preference would have been Scott, but at 1 year, Chapman fits nicely
- Addressing the balance of the line up, especially since all the rookies in the system are bats left, throws right guys (aside from Teel and Montgomery)
- Preference here would be seeing what the market is for Duran and selling high if teams think he's an MVP candidate and they do not
- Concurrently, looking at market for Wily
- I'm fine ignoring the balance issue if they sign Soto, at that point, they should just ride with 7 lefties in the lineup
The ol' "love it or leave it" dismissal i.e. let me watch my alleged domestic abusers in peace. I find it refreshing that Sox fans have enough of a pulse to push back against this move in addition to awaiting the Soto news breathlessly, after how lifeless the fan base has been the last several years. Deservedly so by the product on the field.
I kind of want Soto to sign with the Mets and say publicly, "I was leaning towards the Red Sox until they signed Chapman", etc...... Bullshit or not, it'd be a kick in Breslow's dick which I think he deserves for his garbage trade deadline deals anyways.
Chapman may be a very good addition to the bullpen, but I think Breslow could have found other ways to improve the team. l'm a hypocrite for a variety of things. I think we all are, but there are degrees. I just hate that we occasionally have to face this shit and think about it and have our hypocrisy exposed before our eyes.
Chapman may be a very good addition to the bullpen, but I think Breslow could have found other ways to improve the team. l'm a hypocrite for a variety of things. I think we all are, but there are degrees. I just hate that we occasionally have to face this shit and think about it and have our hypocrisy exposed before our eyes.
If you all want to do something about domestic violence, and are considering quitting watching baseball, I would say there a lot of other more positive ways of making a difference than casting a baseball protest vote. That's not to say I wouldn't encourage that if you feel you must, only that we all enjoy plenty of problematic things in our lives, and my sense has always been that's not really the whole issue.
For example, there are plenty of local organizations in your areas that probably need help, volunteers, money. Most domestic violence hotlines are staffed by volunteers.
And there are people in many of our lives who probably need that help, too.
I encourage anyone who's frustrated by this news or by DV in general to take a look around. It might change or save someone else's life. And it might change yours too.
For example, there are plenty of local organizations in your areas that probably need help, volunteers, money. Most domestic violence hotlines are staffed by volunteers.
And there are people in many of our lives who probably need that help, too.
I encourage anyone who's frustrated by this news or by DV in general to take a look around. It might change or save someone else's life. And it might change yours too.
So to recap, you're upset with Breslow about the Chapman signing to the point that you hope Soto doesn't come to Boston so that everyone is further upset with Breslow because you're upset with Breslow about the trade deadline? Jesus, it's hard to tell the grievances without a scorecard.
I don't love the signing for the obvious reasons, but as a baseball only move it's eminently defensible. If Chapman is as effective as last year he provides a huge upgrade over nearly every bullpen arm but Slaten. Also, if he's effective but the season goes south, he's a great trade chip for a contender. If he's bad there's no long term commitment to stand in the way of a DFA.
It would be interesting to see the reaction if, instead of signing him now, a truly contending Sox team in need of bullpen help, traded for an effective Chapman in July. Probably still get the visceral repulsion vibe, but I bet it would be significantly muted if the prospect of the world series was real.
Also check out your local shelters. Many victims of DA find themselves and their children with no place to go after fleeing an abusive situation and turn to shelters as they attempt to regroup and rebuild their lives. In addition to what @Fishy1 suggested above, food donations, gift cards, clothing and school supplies are also appreciated by many of these shelters. If you feel moved to to so, a quick search on line or call to your local police department could likely direct you to a facility that deals with DA victims.
It's a fair question, and while I don't expect them to approach any season expecting failure, I think this would be far more defensible (from a strictly baseball perspective) if he were 3 or so years younger and more than a one-year rental or at the very least, unquestionably still fit to close games. It's possible that they're gonna spend like drunken sailors or pull off some epic shit at the Winter Meetings, in which case I might have to eat my words, but when you have multiple glaring holes throughout the lineup/pitching, I don't get a one-year $11m deal for a setup man. To me it would be like the Pats kicking the tires for a year on Tee Higgins or another UFA WR this offseason when the O-line is a bunch of subway turnstiles.
And that's all before we consider his moral turpitude.
I think it would be the same. The Red Sox are currently an afterthought in the overall Boston sports landscape. Ownership has a long way to go to regain any real interest in the team. Years of charging one of the highest ticket prices in baseball while not really investing in the team has done this. Making this guy your first major acquisition during an offseason where you were supposed to turn the tide just screams full throttle tone deaf.
Even if they were to land Soto (which I still think is highly unlikely), for me, even a signing of that magnitude would be tainted with the acquisition of Chapman.
Look, to preface, I value your contributions on other parts of this forum, and I understand that you're sensitive to this issue personally, but there's been quite a few people in this thread that have mentioned 'false accusations' when none of the direct parties or accounts have ever mentioned anything like that as a possible explanation. I don't understand why people are tripping over themselves to put that theory out there. If we boil it down, they had an argument, there was at least some physical contact where the girlfriend was knocked over, she called the cops because she thought he was out of control, and he went into a detached garage and fired his guns off 8 times. This is an actual incident regardless of whether or not she was actually choked according to whatever your personal opinion of being choked means.
Would it be a point in favor or against of false accusation if I told you that they're still together or at least on friendly terms (he's on her Instagram during the holidays)? In the moment (during the 911 call), she was already looking out for the consequences of her calling the police despite being obviously frightened due to him, you know, getting the guns out and firing them. I don't know about the mentality of people who have had 'false accusations' leveled against them - do they usually get back together with their accusers? I do know that it's common for DV victims to defend their abusers though, if you want to understand why anyone would change their stories.
I appreciate your response and to be clear I am not absolving Chapman of being involved in this incident, to my knowledge his only incident, where there was no physical harm. as far as the psychology of false accusations I can speak to this being a form of mental abuse as it sticks with you forever and questions the trust of ANY accusation where there is not evidence. My personally, I lost trust in her and despite trying to get past it never did and after an otherwise fine 4 year relationship I decided to leave.
Yes, someone was pushed….some reports were that she was the aggressor and he was pushing her away. I don’t know, nobody knows, we weren’t there and there were no physical signs. He has no long term history, again to my knowledge, of domestic abuse. Someone compared him to the Ray Rice video to which there isn’t any resemblance and an irresponsible comparison. Yes, having a gun and firing it in the garage isn’t normal and absolutely scary…..I am certainly not completely absolving Chapman. If he had other incidents since then I’d be on the same bandwagon as others but it does seem that he learned from that time. Isn’t that all a part of growing up….learning from previous mistakes and being a better person?
Yes...the story changed several times......
"The office also released a closeout memo, written by the assistant state attorney in charge of the domestic violence unit, outlining the decision to not prosecute—which came down to a mix of people changing their stories, a statement that might not be usable in court, and Florida’s gun laws."
"Barnea, who told 911, “He was hitting me in front of everyone and he’s going crazy.” When police responded to the home, Barnea told them Chapman got very upset with her and pushed her against a wall near the movie theater before her brother separated them. She added that Chapman “choked” her by putting his hands around her neck but did not prevent her from breathing.On Dec. 22, she provided a “sworn waiver of prosecution” to the state attorney’s office, saying “...she entered his personal space. Aroldis used his fingers to move her away from him, out of his personal space. She lost her balance and fell.” This lined up with what Chapman told police, which was that he poked her and she fell on the floor.On Jan. 12, Newman spoke with Barnea again. Barnea reiterated that Chapman was trying to get her out of his personal space and that she fell because “there was a chair behind her and it made her fall on the floor.” She was mad and screaming, which drew her brother, who saw her on the floor and tackled Chapman."
https://deadspin.com/why-prosecutors-didnt-bring-charges-against-aroldis-cha-1754305230/
Is this true? The Patriots are one of the worst teams in the NFL, and the Bruins aren't that much better. I'm sure Drake Maye helps, but a competitive season probably slots them second behind the Celtics.
Absolutely. Interest is way down. Nobody talks about them anymore and it is very tough to even give away Sox tickets, let alone find people to go.
I would never assume that all incidents are reported - in any DV situation - but this is of course uncharitable to Chapman. For this particular case, maybe it was just a one-time thing - I wouldn't guess though that abusers involved in circumstances like this (anger issues leading to firing a gun after an argument with their partner) would just be just involved in one incident in their lifetime though, generally.
I think in most of these situations, people are looking for contrition and evidence of steps taken to reform before forgiving, if they're inclined to do so. Chapman apologized for, in his words, 'bad judgment'. He was mandated to do counseling, but reporting says that he met with two psychiatrists and did one session. There's a language barrier and cultural difference in approaching these things, but those actions don't do it for me. I already know from this thread that YMMV on that.
At the end, my point is to push against the idea of a false accusation - this idea that she called the police to frame him with something to get back at him. But it was a tense, frightening situation, where they had an argument and his response to that was firing a gun multiple times. And in the call she's like 'I don't want him to get arrested, he plays baseball' and 'I just need the cops here, just to control him'. Her aim is clearly stated and there's no ulterior motive.
If this is accurate (and I'm inclined to believe it mostly is) the signing makes even more sense from an ownership/management prospective. If Chapman helps them win more games, interest will grow. There simply won't be more fans turned off by Chapman's presence than there will be re-engaged fans if they are winning. If the Sox were already good/great the dynamic is different. But, if the only way to go is up, this is understandable.
I mean relative to the sellout streak... absolutely. But I wouldn't say way down.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone do this to his Mom before. Not live, not in a pic. Not in my imagination.
What am I missing?
Still had the Yankee stink on him then? Drugs? Alcohol? Cultural thing? Freak? Still breast feeding? Dare? Bet?
I’m flummoxed. Bewildered. Even befuddled.
A pic that can’t be unseen!
I disagree with the RS being labeled as “tone deaf” here. They unquestionably know about Chapman’s history. They most certainly weighed the “how negatively this will play in the media and maybe clubhouse” vs, the impact of him coming into the 8th inning 60X this year and being successful a vast vast majority of them”
Additionally he has played for 5 other teams since the incident. That is close to 1/6 of the entirety of the major league teams, and my guess is he hits a few more clubs before his career is over.
They have all signed him. Are we alleging that the RS and their fans are morally superior to the other clubs that have employed him?
Additionally he has played for 5 other teams since the incident. That is close to 1/6 of the entirety of the major league teams, and my guess is he hits a few more clubs before his career is over.
They have all signed him. Are we alleging that the RS and their fans are morally superior to the other clubs that have employed him?
This should probably be another thread, but I can very easily see us as contenders with or without Soto.
The AL competition is very weak right now, especially if Soto leaves the Yankees, and we can meet most of our needs from the farm or the IL: SP to replace Pivetta in Giolito, RP to replace Jansen in Hendriks, RHH to replace O'Neill in Campbell, RHH SS in Story. Arguably, LHRP was one of the two big needs that we lacked in-house answers for and our two moves to date have been LHRP: Wilson and Chapman. We do still need a 1/2 starter, but there are fallbacks from the Burnes/Fried/Crochets of the world.
I think you’ve oversold the “quit on the team” angle. First, Verdugo played in every WS game. Why is Boone playing him if he quit?
Second, end of season junk like the relationship between Chapman and the Yankees happens a lot. Chapman was told he wasn’t going to be on the playoff roster and he flew home. Cashman played a bit of office politics.
I won't use the term "morally superior" but it was just two years ago when Bruins fans essentially forced the team to rescind its offer to Mitch Miller, which I don't think is something that had ever really happened before. Personally, I don't give a shit what the fans of five other teams think or do; Boston fans should be proud to hold their teams to a high standard.
I think you have to go back to the Christian Peter draft pick by the Patriots in 1996 to see it happen before the Miller situation
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What has discouraged me so much about the Sox being tightwads and sucking the last few years while charging the highest ticket prices and owning everything but the oxygen around Fenway is the park is full of fans of that day's opponent. The Dodger fans took over the park for that series in 2023. Anyone on this board is a hardcore Sox fan but since the loss of Mookie (and the subsequent sucking), there has been a clear loss in Sox interest in my friends and relatives that are not diehards.
As for Chapman, I am old enough to assume that a lot of these guys are dickheads and you should not have heroes. I guess I will root for him to do well on the Sox while holding my nose.
JA wasn't saying that Verdugo quit on the Yankees (he just sucked serious ass for them). He quit for "you guys" meaning the Red Sox, since JA is a Yankees fan.
That's the way I read it too. Verdugo quit on Cora and the Sox, leading to a benching and then the trade.
He showed up late to the ballpark at least once that we heard about, and I get the sense that, on a Cora-led team, we don't hear about such things until it's become a problem.
Yes. People were acting like Chapman quitting was a good thing, so JA pointed out that Verdugo quit on "you guys, also" so maybe the new market ineffiency is guys quitting on teams. So, you guys could "also" sign Verdugo who quit on the Sox.
Get it done, Theo.
