Here's their front office staff: https://www.mlb.com/redsox/team/front-office
Don't have direct emails, but some of these are easily found on LinkedIn. Would the Chief Marketing Officer be a good option?
Sox sign Aroldis Chapman
- Thread starter soxhop411
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Don't have direct emails, but some of these are easily found on LinkedIn. Would the Chief Marketing Officer be a good option?
I think this a real fuck up for the Sox. Boston tolerates this shit, but way, way, less than other places. Christian Peter never had a problem playing anywhere else.
I wrote to the head of the Red Sox Foundation last time and got a really good reply
Ownership needs to address it. If they don’t or side step questions, that is bad. I know they’re probably hoping for a “hey, look at this Juan Soto signing” distraction but they need to own this. My guess is they largely won’t.
This is the question at the heart of restorative justice. Can people who behave this way be reliably redeemed? Can they unlearn what led them to behave the way they did (like a POS, as you said) and do better by other people?
I, like you, don't have a good answer to that question, and don't have an answer to it re:Chapman in particular, but there's no doubt some people do reform.
If others want to cheer for him and be thrilled with his performance and think his issues are in the past or he is forgiven or anything, that is up to them since everyone has their own moral line in the sand/gray area/views on forgiveness. All I can say is that for myself, as a lapsed fan who hasn't cared much for the direction of this franchise the last few years, I am pretty disappointed by this. Not that ownership cares - they have been correctly assessing their product as bulletproof for years now and certainly don't need me. But as someone who used to be much more of a fan, this is disappointing.
I was thinking of Duran initially. He said something truly abhorrent. It was inexcusable. He apologized, gave a press conference, took his suspension. Said all the right things. But of course those are all just words. How do we know he has really strove to atone and be a better person? We don't. I am trying to remember the MLB OFer who said something similar years ago, and then learned about his wrongs and became a tireless worker for anti-bigotry in baseball (I am ashamed I can't remember who it was).
A similar story can be said for Kyle Larson in NASCAR.
Chapman, well...it's violence, not words. Violence against a woman. I am not sure anyone who did what he did can truly be forgiven. Should they? I simply do not know. I don't know what he can or should do to atone. I am not even sure he has atoned.
And had subsequent domestic violence issues as well. A scumbag the Sox were wise to cut ties with and other teams were fools to keep giving chances to.
I hate this signing. I hope he blows his arm out the first day of spring training and never actually takes the field in a Red Sox uniform.
I am surprised that Breslow would make a tone deaf move like this. Whether you support signing Soto or not, the last few weeks have generated upbeat stories and chatter about the Red Sox, something not in great abundance the last few years. Now the media and talk shows will be filled about fan animus toward Chapman’s off field behavior. Really stupid.
This may have added another $75mm to the Soto bid to bury this as the lede.
This may have added another $75mm to the Soto bid to bury this as the lede.
You may be thinking of Kevin Pillar. Who, coincidently enough, was signed by the Sox a couple of years after the incident.
There were supposedly issues (unnamed) in Orlando Cabrera's private life that led the Red Sox to make the unfortunate decision to move on from him and on to Edgar Renteria after the 2004 season.
I remember that incident now, but for some reason the player I thought I remembered played in the 2000-2010 era and was African-American. I could be hallucinating the whole thing though.
That’s the most surprising thing to me. From a PR standpoint, it’s a huge own goal. Is the upside of a 3.50 ERA or whatever RP worth this? The Chiefs and Dolphins took on Tyreek because he is an elite player. Chapman is a RP on the tail end of his career. Like, why do this?
Baseball teams, or other entertainment industries, aren't really equipped to sort this out so they will default to the legal system -- if he served his time, we move on. So I guess it's more a question of whether we can accept the legal system's outcomes. I can, personally, if a guy is actually prosecuted and punished, not if he evaded prosecution or got off light for some disgusting reason. [I have strummed the chords for The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll a few times.] Unfortunately, Chapman is probably in the latter category, barring some context that we don't know, so it's an open and/or unanswerable question as to what more needs to be done.
Here's the strange thing in all of this. Many organizations are going to be fairly quick to act on these things when a player is currently part of their organization. After a period of time, teams seem to be OK with welcoming players from other organizations who have done similar. He's a different person now he's paid his debt, conflicting reports, charges were dropped, we're confident that this was an isolated incident, etc...
He’s not black but Daniel Murphy took a lot of criticism for saying he “disagreed with the lifestyle” of a gay teammate. Happened about a decade ago.
You might be conflating Torii Hunter's still-unrepentant homophobia with Tim Hardaway's remarkable turnaround on gay issues?
Hunter:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2014/10/29/political-ad-torii-hunter-sounds-gays/18152049/
Hardaway:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26373458/hardaway-anti-gay-rant-keeps-hall
I'm sure if we really wanted to do this (I don't), we could make a nice long list of pro athletes in Boston that have been pretty terrible people, yet that we cheered for nonetheless. It probably would be so long it would be depressing. :-(
Yes yes yes. Tim Hardaway. Thank you. I am an idiot and conflated everyone.
So. Tim Hardaway. Worked with the YES project and with The Trevor Project for years after his homophobic remarks. Called Jason Collins to offer his love and support when Collins came out. Became the symbolic first signer for an amendment in Florida that would allow same-sex marriages. Those are all actions one takes when one has truly repented for past remarks, has stove to educate themselves with the goals of becoming a better person and supporting those around him. That's the type of thing that tells me someone has truly atoned.
When it's your player/employee, it's a bad look to be associated with them especially when headlines are going to say stuff like "Red Sox Player Accused of Domestic Violence". And it's a lot easier to cut ties - assuming it's not your superstar player - and look like the Good Guy, getting rid of somebody if there is even a whiff of impropriety. But really, after the incident blows over and the heat isn't as intense, teams can buy low on a distressed asset and even get to morally grandstand with "we've done our due diligence and we're giving this person a second chance".
Ray Rice I an interesting case study. By all reckoning he's done a ton of work reaching out to young athletes and trying to teach them not to be like him.
I think this is where I struggle with all of this. I'm not religious, but I believe in forgiveness and I believe in people's ability to change and be better. I believe people can do terrible things, come to realize how terrible they were, and truly change. However, I think a lot of the stories you hear in sports about how somebody has changed are just whitewashing the terrible things in the past in order to justify having them on the team.
The part I struggle with the most is figuring out what the path forward is for somebody like this. Are they to never play baseball again? And if they aren't to play in the majors, why can they play in Mexico? Or Korea? Or Japan? Are these transgressions only disqualifying from playing Major League Baseball? And if they can't play any baseball again, what can they do?
None of this is really specific to Chapman. I don't know if he's changed as a person, or if he feels any shame or any remorse, I'm just speaking generally about all of these types of situations.
But he's also committed violence against women. Even your mention of his name provoked a visceral reaction in me.
I just don't know if I, as a fan, would ever be able to forgive an athlete who did what Ray Rice did. I know others feel the same about Michael Vick, who by all accounts has tirelessly worked to atone for his harm of animal abuse. I think Vick is a truly changed person, but I also understand others may not agree.
I understand that completely, I really do. And I am deeply skeptical of people with histories of domestic violence and even more skeptical with sex pests.
That said, I fundamentally believe in second chances. Even doing that kind of shit shouldn't make your life forfeit.
Though all things being equal, I'd rather not be put in a position of having to cheer for a guy with that kinds of past.
This is kind of where I'm at as well. When Duran had his shitty and totally uncalled for incident this summer, the outrage and hyperbole about running him out of town, never rooting for him again, cancelling NESN, demanding they promptly release him, etc. etc... was absolutely off the charts. Then he finished putting up an over 7 WAR season and it was basically crickets, plaudits, and you can't trade him because he is cheap and controllable. It's amusing how soon they forget how mad they were.
Girlfriend’s statement to police never said “choke” and she did not press any charges.
TMZ released photos showing no marking on her neck. Chapman admitted to using two fingers to push her shoulder because she looked at his phone. Then shot his gun off in the garage. I’m not one to judge the proportionality of any of these actions. I, personally, developed different coping mechanisms.
Firing a gun when you are upset is awful. But this incident happened in Florida, where firing a gun is a common means of self expression.
One of the 8 bullets passed through a window. Is that not reckless endangerment with a deadly weapon? Thankfully, the bullet ending up in a field. But had Chapman had closer neighbors, would this be a misdemeanor?
It’s understandable that he wasn’t charged with battery because the gf did not press charges, but I’m still confused how he’s not a criminal.
But the gun firing is the only thing he apologized for. That’s a fact. It could mean, COULD MEAN, it’s all he is actually guilty of. We may never know. We do know he will pitch from our bullpen this year. We can assume he was evaluated. We hope Breslow paid attention to character
Won’t be super easy, but I think I can root for this guy. I’m partial to Cuban stars. I am romantic about Cuban love for baseball. I also grew up in Cranston RI and cannot imagine the cultural differences defected Cuban athletes face. In no way do I want to make excuses for the Chapmans and Puigs of the world, but I’m very much fascinated.
I’m gonna trust the brass in this one.
Also, 10.5 million has got to mean there was a market for him. I doubt the Sox bid against themselves and got the price that high with no other suitors. Maybe the league knows more about this guy
I think the difference is that:
- Duran's offense involved words. Horrible, abhorrent, unacceptable, hurtful words, but words nonetheless. Chapman's involved violence.
- Duran did all the right things in the immediate aftermath. Publicly apologized, made zero excuses, took his punishment with no complaints. He vowed to be better, and obviously that remains to be seen. But his initial actions showed he knew he fucked up badly. Chapman tried to minimize what he did by saying "It was just the gun." Which is frankly, insane.
Given that Jarren Duran has been commendably open about his mental health and fundraised for mental health charities, I'm hopeful that in the future he'll work in some capacity with organizations that support queer youth, who struggle disproportionately with mental health. It's something to keep an eye on, I think, as we as fans try to gauge the character of the players we root for, in hope of some kind of reassurance that they're worthy of our emotional investment.
Other than accepting a suspension a decade ago I'm not really sure what Aroldis Chapman has done to give such reassurances. Nonfatal strangulation is the form of intimate partner violence which most consistently escalates to murder.
I know some people in the animal rights world who would agree with this. He represents one notable point on the atonement spectrum. Most others don't measure up to Vick's example. I will say, in some ways what Vick did is easier to turn around -- people can be taught callousness toward animals only to wake up to how wrong they are. Assaulting a woman... you don't just casually get there, I don't think? Add in gunshots and it''s more like a psychotic break or other deep flaw. Harder to fix.
Your reasonings can also be applied to politics especially in today's climate. If someone's background is bad, but whatever organization or business they represent helps their favorite team or their self-interests people will tend to look the other way. So human nature is not a cheap absolution. Situations like rooting for Chapman happen in many other areas of life. If people want to cancel subscriptions, not watch the Red Sox, etc. because of that, I get it. It's your right to do.
LOL. As much as I hate the current state of Florida, I'm not sure even I would go this far.
Yeah, everyone in Florida knows that firing your gun is just lettin’ off sum steem.
True. And if someone were looking the other way at the abhorrent misdeeds of politicians, business executives, religious leaders etc and calling it human nature to do so, I’d say that person was self-absolving and full of shit too.
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I hate this and I hate this franchises lack of giving a shit if a guy is a huge piece of shit off the field.
Fuck this guy, I hope he's traded at the deadline.
Fuck this guy, I hope he's traded at the deadline.
We really need to move of this subject because at this point nothing can be done, but I did have one final question for those upset with the move, what would you want Chapman to do? What do you need to hear or see from him in order for you to believe he is redeemed? Or is there nothing in your eyes that he can do at this point that could absolve him from his mistakes? I just don’t know what else the guy can do 9 years after the incident and serving his suspension.
Has he done ANYTHING that we know of other than serve his punishment, and no further public incidents? Examples have been given up thread of volunteering and showing regret and trying to make amends.
I'm kinda glad I just don't give a shit about the Sox anywhere nearly as much as I used to. I don't get upset when they don't sign the best player or get all that pissed when they don't extend Mookie Betts. I can't help but start to pay closer attention when they're playing better and if they stink, I can tune them out. I can't stand how much these players make. I can't stand how much the owners make. They don't play for me. Ownership doesn't share anything with me. It's a scam. I wish I could get myself over that hill to just turn the whole fucking thing off but I unfortunately grew up with this shit and it's imprinted on me so I can't... but man do I want to even more now. And yeah.... I'm sure when he shuts down a close game for a tough save, I'll cheer for him. When he blows a 3 run game I'll bring up what a shitty person he is. I'm a believer in the art and not the artist (Picasso.... Gaugin, etc.... ) so I apply this to sports also. He seems to have tried his best to be a better person.
It happened 9 years ago and he made an apology, do you want him to apologize again?
So, you're going to ignore my second sentence, and the conversation that's already happening in this thread?
Also, he never actually assaulted his girlfriend. He made that very clear in his statement and he also was never convicted of it. So you’re taking the word of one persons over another’s, so why should be just assume his girlfriend is telling the truth rather than Chapman? How many stories have we heard of athletes getting their lives ruined by women falsely claiming assault and rape, and then they never face any repercussions? Can’t we for once just have faith in the legal system and assume they did their due diligence?
How many stories have you heard of athletes getting their lives ruined by women falsely claiming assault and rape, and then they never face any repercussions?
Even after these last 5 years, this thread gives me faith in the Sox ability to inflame passions.
Name … doesn’t entirely check out?