Sox get Kimbrel

nattysez

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Sep 30, 2010
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You guys want to win the division, or build a farm system with three redundancies at every position?
Yeah, like those stupid Cubs and Royals! How dumb to have multiple young options available at every position in case someone doesn't work out or gets hurt!

I equate this with the Jays' signing of BJ Ryan -- it's an overpay for an "established closer."
 

kazuneko

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Not only did they overpay in prospects they took on a big salary in return. You'd have to think that makes the team more -not less- committed to trading for an ace. Of course with Guerra and Margot gone, the team has lost their two most most expendable prospects. If this is what DD is willing to give up for an expensive reliever I can only imagine what he would be willing to give up for Carrasco..
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Jul 10, 2007
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The wrong side of the bridge....
One thing to keep in mind: aside from HR/FB, which is probably random given the sample size (6 HR, including 2 Just Enoughs), the thing that got worse for Kimbrel last year was BABIP. Take a look at SD's 2015 defense (hint: there's a reason why they're targeting defense-first prospects). They were mediocre at every infield position except 1B, meh in LF and CF, and horrendous in RF. Their team UZR was -31.4 and their DRS was -28. Managing a .276 BABIP with that defense is an achievement in itself.
 

Auger34

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Apr 23, 2010
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This is a really bad trade. Remove Guerra and I am alright with it (even though Margot and Allen is a lot to give up). Putting in all 3 of them is lunacy. This package should have been used for Quintana or a starter similar to that.
DDski just forced himself into signing one of Cueto, Greinke, or Price with this overpay
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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A lot of overreactions here. If they go out and sign one of the big reliever names then ink Price or Grenkie, this is a playoff contender. Was that a steep price to pay? Yeah. But dealing from a deep system to shore up the back of the pen early gives them some breathing room for the rest of winter.

This reminds me a little of signing Gomes early at an overpay in the 2012-2013 off season. Answer one of the big questions early to give yourself some room to operate in the rest of the off season.

They also prevented another team from sweeping in and stealing him away.
 

Adrian's Dome

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Yeah, like those stupid Cubs and Royals! How dumb to have multiple young options available at every position in case someone doesn't work out or gets hurt!

I equate this with the Jays' signing of BJ Ryan -- it's an overpay for an "established closer."
Are you serious? Craig Kimbrel is not BJ Ryan, and that's an atrocious use of emphasis.

This one singular move turns the bullpen from a serious liability into a strength, so long as Farrell can play matchups correctly.

Margot is a nice piece, but there was a very non-zero chance he was ever going to play an inning for the major league squad, even less so for Guerra. The Sox still have a top notch farm squad, and now going to war with a less than stellar rotation is slightly less painful.

Sometimes, cashing in on prospects is the correct move.
 

twibnotes

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This is a really bad trade. Remove Guerra and I am alright with it (even though Margot and Allen is a lot to give up). Putting in all 3 of them is lunacy. This package should have been used for Quintana or a starter similar to that.
DDski just forced himself into signing one of Cueto, Greinke, or Price with this overpay
Which will cost a pick, right? (Making it harder to reload the now less deep farm)
 
Aug 31, 2006
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1. As usual, people on this board are ready to jump off the ledge because we have to give up value to get something. Too bad the Padres wouldn't take Wade Miley and a subsidized Rusney Castillo for Kimbrel.

2. Worth noting that for luxury tax purposes, which is really all that matters with regards to the Red Sox budget, Kimbrel comes in a little lower than his salaries over the next few seasons at $10.5 million.

3. Do people forget how terrible the bullpen was in 2015?
 

scotian1

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I wonder if this was the package they offered for Chapman and this was the fallback position. Also does this man they are going after a free agent starter rather than one by trade?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Don't want to judge one move so early in the offseason but this looks pretty rough. Glad they've immediately upgraded the pen but hate that they didn't use this package for a starter.

Looks to me like a very unimaginative use of resources; "we have the surplus so let's make sure we get our guy."
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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1. As usual, people on this board are ready to jump off the ledge because we have to give up value to get something. Too bad the Padres wouldn't take Wade Miley and a subsidized Rusney Castillo for Kimbrel.

2. Worth noting that for luxury tax purposes, which is really all that matters with regards to the Red Sox budget, Kimbrel comes in a little lower than his salaries over the next few seasons at $10.5 million.

3. Do people forget how terrible the bullpen was in 2015?
Take care not to light a match around the strawmen you're building.
 

chrisfont9

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Are you serious? Craig Kimbrel is not BJ Ryan, and that's an atrocious use of emphasis.

This one singular move turns the bullpen from a serious liability into a strength, so long as Farrell can play matchups correctly.

Margot is a nice piece, but there was a very non-zero chance he was ever going to play an inning for the major league squad, even less so for Guerra. The Sox still have a top notch farm squad, and now going to war with a less than stellar rotation is slightly less painful.

Sometimes, cashing in on prospects is the correct move.
Yeah, apart from sticker shock I can talk myself into thinking like this. Margot was already producing in AA so we won't have to wait too long to see what he has, but Guerra was still pretty far away.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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I hate this trade so much. I hate both how much was given up, and the thinking behind it.
I don't mind the occasional overpay in prospects, I do mind it for a closer, trading that much for 60 Innings a year is crazy to me.
 

LesterFan

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I wonder if this was the package they offered for Chapman and this was the fallback position. Also does this man they are going after a free agent starter rather than one by trade?
Chapman is a free agent after the season so I can't imagine this package was offered for him
 

RedOctober3829

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Good deal for both sides. Sox get an elite closer with 3 years of control and SD rebuilds their system. Margot and Guerra are both blocked and the other 2 are throw in lottery tickets. The prospect humpers are mad at giving up binkies I see. If this what it took for a closer, imagine the price tags for top starters in trade. Dave just traded from a position of strength to upgrade a part of the ML team which was atrocious last year.
 

TheReal15

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Aug 10, 2015
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Sure, it feels like an overpay, but the outfield is incredibly crowded and Margot projects as a leadoff guy. DD knows baseball ops, he can evaluate talent like few others in the game. I don't think he's come up short on too many trades.
 

twibnotes

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Good deal for both sides. Sox get an elite closer with 3 years of control and SD rebuilds their system. Margot and Guerra are both blocked and the other 2 are throw in lottery tickets. The prospect humpers are mad at giving up binkies I see. If this what it took for a closer, imagine the price tags for top starters in trade. Dave just traded from a position of strength to upgrade a part of the ML team which was atrocious last year.

I think many of us were prepared to part with top prospects, just not for a reliever, even an elite one.
 

SouthernBoSox

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A lot of overreactions here. If they go out and sign one of the big reliever names then ink Price or Grenkie, this is a playoff contender. Was that a steep price to pay? Yeah. But dealing from a deep system to shore up the back of the pen early gives them some breathing room for the rest of winter.

This reminds me a little of signing Gomes early at an overpay in the 2012-2013 off season. Answer one of the big questions early to give yourself some room to operate in the rest of the off season.

They also prevented another team from sweeping in and stealing him away.
I have no idea how you can compare signing a back up outfielder to giving up 4 legitimate prospects, 2 of which are top 50 guys, for a reliever marking market value.

They aren't remotely comparable. In fact, there isn't one similarity.
 

mauf

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A GM who's unwilling to sign free-agent SPs can't afford to trade pitching prospects with upside -- and that's what Logan Allen is, even though he's still basically a lottery ticket. So this deal makes me suspect DD will be in on this year's deep crop of starters.
 

circus catch

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Nov 6, 2009
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That being said kimbrell and uehara at the back of the bullpen is huge
Exactly what I was thinking. And Margot is 21 with 6 homers in A+ and AA. MAYBE he has as good a career as Betts or Bradley has, but they didn't just trade Trout. I'm fine with this, and so will most everyone be if they have success with him. Kimbrell is a guy you can win with. And the farm ain't empty.
 

SydneySox

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Thus trade is a brutal overpay but more terrifying is what it indicates for future trades. If that's what it took/what someone could talk DD into trading for an excellent but being paid for it reliever, how much is it going to cost for a quality starter?

I can't tell if this is the market or DD .
 

LesterFan

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Good deal for both sides. Sox get an elite closer with 3 years of control and SD rebuilds their system. Margot and Guerra are both blocked and the other 2 are throw in lottery tickets. The prospect humpers are mad at giving up binkies I see. If this what it took for a closer, imagine the price tags for top starters in trade. Dave just traded from a position of strength to upgrade a part of the ML team which was atrocious last year.
I agree with this. Tazawa-Uehara-Kimbrel is pretty damn solid
 

jacklamabe65

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Wow - you all bunched your panties over Ben not doing anything and now DD gets the best closer in the game, what do you do? You bunched your panties again. Who really knows how these prospects work out? We still have our core young players - that's all that matters - plus we have a decent bullpen now with Kimbrel, Koji, Taz, Barnes, et al.
 
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Buzzkill Pauley

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Are you serious? Craig Kimbrel is not BJ Ryan, and that's an atrocious use of emphasis.

This one singular move turns the bullpen from a serious liability into a strength, so long as Farrell can play matchups correctly.

Margot is a nice piece, but there was a very non-zero chance he was ever going to play an inning for the major league squad, even less so for Guerra. The Sox still have a top notch farm squad, and now going to war with a less than stellar rotation is slightly less painful.

Sometimes, cashing in on prospects is the correct move.
No, it doesn't turn the bullpen into a strength.

Because relievers are volatile. No single reliever would be able to turn last season's dumpster fire into a strength, even a great one like Kimbrel.

This trade might bring the pen up to average, though, assuming Taz doesn't decline further.
 

luckysox

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60 stellar innings in the regular season plus a shut down bullpen for innings 7-8-9 in October is worth it to me. Make a run now. I'm alive now. I like now.
 

IdiotKicker

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I dig the deal. It's a position of depth, and if the last few years should have taught us anything, it's that just because they're prospects doesn't mean they're going to be anything. We have depth here, and filled a critical need by utilizing that depth. Yeah, it cost us a couple nice prospects. Lars Anderson and Casey Kelly say hi.
 

4 6 3 DP

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John Henry pushed the chips in on DD's ability to evaluate those minor leaguers.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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I think some of the hand-wringing here is overblown. I don't know what else DD may have been able to get out of this collection of prospects, but I'll guess it's not a frontline SP. I expect he's evaluated the markets for the Cleveland and Mets studs, and for Sale, and if any of those guys can be had, losing the pieces here won't take the Sox out of the picture.

As a lover of young talent, I'll even take this as good news... I think it's now LESS likely JBJ, Betts, Devers or Benintendi without a legit top flight young starter coming back.
 

Adrian's Dome

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No, it doesn't turn the bullpen into a strength.

Because relievers are volatile. No single reliever would be able to turn last season's dumpster fire into a strength, even a great one like Kimbrel.

This trade might bring the pen up to average, though, assuming Taz doesn't decline further.
It makes it so Layne and Ross aren't forced into bad matchups.

It takes a ton of pressure of Tazawa.

Significantly decreases the reliance on Koji coming off a serious injury.

And provides you with a young shutdown reliever under control for three more seasons. A 1-2-3 of Taz, Koji, and Kimbrel with a lefty killer like Layne is one of the best bullpens in baseball on paper. How most of you are failing to see the trickle down effect of a move like this blows my mind.
 

grimshaw

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I don't like the deal, but maybe they saw Guerra's season as a fluke. Either way I really didn't think it would take a top 5 Red Sox guy for an at value closer.