Sox and Yanks vs. the World

HurstSoGood

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Dec 14, 2006
2,181
I thought Cronin (28 WAR w/BOS) was a SS. Perhaps he could sneak in as a Player/Manager? I'm surprised at the lack of love for Pedey (52 WAR w/BOS) or Cano (45 WAR for the Yanks).
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
72,430
A’s-Giants
C Posey
1BMcGwire/McCovey/WClark/Cepeda/JaGiambi(stacked)
2B Kent
SS Tejada
3B Ott (cheating?) Chavez or M Wilbackup
LF Bonds
CF Mays
RF Jackson, R
DH Henderson, R
OF Canseco
Util Irvin
SP Mathewson (cheating?)
SP Marichal
SP Madbum
SP Stewart
SP Catfish
SP depth/long relief Lincecum/Zito/Hudson/Mulder
CL Eck
CL Fingers
CL Beck
CL Nen
SU Honeycutt

Prettu sure I’m missing some infielders

1. Rickey DH
2. Bonds LF
3. Mays CF
4. McGwire/McCovey 1B
5. Ott 3B
6. Jackson/Canseco RF
7. Posey C
8. Kent 2B
9. Tejada SS
 

Ferm Sheller

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2007
20,404
Braves - Cardinals?

C- Joe Torre, Ted Simmons
1b Pujols
2b Hornsby
SS Ozzie
3b - Chipper Jones
OF- Musial, Andruw Jones, Hank Aaron
DH - Eddie Matthews

SP-Bob Gibson, Greg Maddux, Spahn, Glavine, Dizzy Dean or Phil Niekro
RP- Atlanta Craig Kimbrel, John Smoltz, Bruce Sutter, Todd Worrell, Al Hrabosky (for entertainment purposes)
That's pretty solid, but it's hard to believe that Andruw Jones is one of the top three OFers those team have to offer. Maybe Lou Brock takes his place?
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Cubs/Cardinals makes more sense than Braves/Cardinals, no? Braves Cardinals a rivalry?
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Dodgers/Padres + Gwynn+Hoffman

SP Koufax
SP Kershaw
SP Drysdale
SP Hershiser
SP Fernando

SP6 Greinke
SP7 Sutton
RP Hoffman (oops)
RP Gagne


C Campanella
C/DH Piazza
1B Garvey
2B Jackie
SS Reese (Tatis in 3-4 years if we give Padres a shot)
3B Wills
LF Manny (using short peak)
CF Snider
RF Gwynn
WSPH Gibson

1. Wills, 3B
2. JR42, 2B
3. Gwynn, RF
4. Manny, LF
5. Snider, CF
6. Piazza, DH
7.Garvey, 1B
8. Campanella, C
9. Reese, SS
 
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Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Dodgers by themselves may take out everyone except Yankees and probably Red Sox (Pedro/Clemens)

Fun one would be Dodgers themselves v. Angels/Padres combo
 
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Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Mets/Phillies

SP Carlton
SP Seaver
SP Degrom (using short peak, but it's ahell of a peak)
SP Ryan
SP Robin Roberts

RP Wagner
RP Franco (lifetime achievement award)
RP Papelbon
RP Mcgraw (fits both teams)
RP Konstanty
RP Benitez
RP Randy Myers

C Piazza
1B Howard
2B Utley
SS Rollins (probably a better alternative but he did win an MVP)
3B Schmidt
LF Luzinski? (longer peak than 1 season of Cleon Jones)
CF Dykstra (fits both teams)
RF Klein
DH/RF Strawberry

C G. Carter
OF Ashburn
CIF Wright
MIF Reyes
3B Dick Allen
Gambling and Collectibles Pete Rose
Extra curriculars Doc Gooden

1. Rollins SS
2. Utley 2B
3. Klein RF
4. Schmidt 3B
5. Piazza C
6. Howard 1B
7. Strawberry DH
8. Luzinski LF
9. Dykstra CF
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
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Mar 5, 2004
27,957
Saskatoon Canada
Every Canadian Fan has done a Jays?Expos teams

C Carter
1b Delgado
2b Alomar
3b Doinalndson
ss Fernandez
Lf Raines
CF Dawson
RF Walker
Dh Joey Bats

Pedro
Halladay
Rogers
Stieb
Key
 

OnTheBlack

New Member
Dec 23, 2020
307
Who wins all time Sox vs all time Yankees if we get Clemons? I think that’s pretty dang close. Yankees have the depth and longevity but the Sox have enjoyed some stars shining at their absolute peak. What I would give to watch that for 7 games!
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,084
That's pretty solid, but it's hard to believe that Andruw Jones is one of the top three OFers those team have to offer. Maybe Lou Brock takes his place?
Or perhaps Joe Medwick
Every Canadian Fan has done a Jays?Expos teams

C Carter
1b Delgado
2b Alomar
3b Doinalndson
ss Fernandez
Lf Raines
CF Dawson
RF Walker
Dh Joey Bats

Pedro
Halladay
Rogers
Stieb
Key
That’s a great list but I would replace Walker with Guerrero.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
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Jul 14, 2005
23,675
Miami (oh, Miami!)
If we're talking one peak year v. narrative "value with franchise" I'm surprised we don't see more one-off or peak-peak years.

Some notable (11+ WAR) post WWII seasons to consider:

1985 Dwight Gooden
1972 Steve Carlton
1971 Fergie Jenkins
1991 Cal Ripkin
1975 Joe Morgan

While WAR is imperfect, it's pretty clear the second starting OF on the Sox/Yanks (vomit burp) would be 1967 Yaz. Which I would not have considered at first.


I suspect it’s German in origin…
Possibly "die Franzosen"?
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Every Canadian Fan has done a Jays?Expos teams

C Carter
1b Delgado
2b Alomar
3b Doinalndson
ss Fernandez
Lf Raines
CF Dawson
RF Walker
Dh Joey Bats

Pedro
Halladay
Rogers
Stieb
Key
In 3 months, for fun, I got Guerrero Jr at 1B, Guerrero Sr at RF and move Walker to DH
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,405
You know whose all-time team is surprisingly competitive? The Angels’. It surprised me, anyway:

C - Bob Boone
1B - Carew
2B - Grich
SS - Fregosi
3B - Glaus
LF - Salmon
CF - Trout (yes, yes, very funny)
RF - Guerrero
DH - Ohtani (Brian Downing or Garret Anderson if he’s too “currently playing baseball” for you)

SP - Ryan
SP - Finley
SP - Blyleven
SP - Langston
SP - Lackey
RP - Rodriguez
RP - Percival
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Twins/Brewers

C Mauer
1B Killebrew
2B Carew
SS Yount
3B Molitor
LF Braun
CF Puckett
RF Oliva
DH Morneau/Hrbek/Prince/Cooper

SP Santana, J
SP Blyleven
SP Kaat
SP Vuckovich
SP Sheets
RP Fingers
RP Nathan
RP Aguilera
RP Plesac


1. Molitor 3B
2. Carew 2B
3. Puckett CF
4. Killebrew 1B
5. Oliva RF
6. Braun LF
7. Morneau/Prince DH
8. Mauer C
9. Yount SS
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

family crest has godzilla
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Jul 26, 2007
3,721
The Short Bus
That's pretty solid, but it's hard to believe that Andruw Jones is one of the top three OFers those team have to offer. Maybe Lou Brock takes his place?
I was looking to get a true CF in there (with Musial in left and Aaron in right), but even with that Andruw Jones was better than Brock. Jones with the Braves was a top 3 (at worst) all time defensive CF with an OPS of .839 over ten seasons-higher than any single season of Brock's career save one. He was a force in Atlanta, not so much with the Yankees.

I think people are sleeping on the Braves all-time lineup. They are right there with Sox and the Yanks straight up. They have something like 7 of the top 51 guys all time by WAR (Aaron, Eddie Matthews, Chipper Jones, Maddux, Spahn, Kid Nichols (old-timey dude)and Phil Neikro), plus Glavine, Smoltz (as a starter or reliever), Kimbrel, andruw jones, Dale Murphy, Joe Torre, plus young guys like Freddie Freeman and Acuna. Their pitching alone carries them pretty far.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Reds/Indians

C Bench
1B Thome
2B Morgan
SS Larkin
3B Rose
LF Foster, G
CF Speaker
RF Robinson, F
DH Manny

SP Feller
SP Walters
SP Kluber
SP Rijo
SP Sabathia
RP Nasty Boy Charlton
RP Nasty Boy Myers
RP Nasty Boy Dibble
RP Allen, C
RP Miller, A

1B/DH/PH Votto
CIF/Manager Perez
MIF Vizquel (based on balance)
CF/PR Davis

1. Rose 2B
2. Morgan 2B
3. Robinson RF
4. Manny DH
5. Thome 1B
6. Bench C
7. Speaker CF
8. Foster LF
9. Larkin SS
 
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Sausage in Section 17

Poker Champ
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Mar 17, 2004
2,084
I'm just surprised that Nomar gets mentioned all over the place, but no one has mentioned Xander.

I'd agree that either would be a borderline inclusion on those teams, but at this point, I think I prefer Xander over Nomar. And I loved Nomar.

Edit- But I also would rate Boggs ahead of both of them. I'm not sure I've seen a player with better bat skills in my lifetime.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
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Jul 14, 2005
3,947
Warwick, RI
Reds/Indians

C Bench
1B Votto
2B Morgan
SS Larkin
3B Rose
LF Foster, G
CF Davis, E
RF Robinson, F
DH Thome

SP Feller
SP Walters
SP Kluber
SP Rijo
SP Sabathia
RP Nasty Boy Charlton
RP Nasty Boy Myers
RP Nasty Boy Dibble
RP Allen, C
RP Miller, A

COF Manny
CIF Perez
MIF Lindor or Vizquel

1. Rose 2B
2. Morgan 2B
3. Robinson RF
4. Thome DH
5. Votto 1B
6. Bench C
7. Foster LF
8. Davis CF
9. Larkin SS
I think you gotta go with Tris Speaker over Eric Davis in Center. He had monster years in Cleveland.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/speaktr01.shtml
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Expansion edition!
West/mountain version:
C Montero?
1B Helton
2B Womack?
SS Tulo
3B Arenado
LF Holliday
CF Blackmon
RF Walker
DH Galarraga/Gonzalez

bench
OF Burks
IF Castilla
IF/PR Womack

SP Johnson, R
SP G38
SP Webb
SP Greinke
SP Jimenez/Corbin
RP Fuentes
RP Street
RP Kim /ducks



1. Blackmon, CF
2. Walker, RF
3. Helton, 1B
4. Gallaraga/Gonzalez, DH
5. Holliday, LF
6. Arenado, 3B
7. Tulo, SS
8. Womack, 2B
9. Montero, C

Wish I could trade Holliday/Gonzo/Galarraga/Burks/Upton for 2B/C. You guys can probably think of someone better anyway.
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,405
I'm just surprised that Nomar gets mentioned all over the place, but no one has mentioned Xander.

I'd agree that either would be a borderline inclusion on those teams, but at this point, I think I prefer Xander over Nomar. And I loved Nomar.

Edit- But I also would rate Boggs ahead of both of them. I'm not sure I've seen a player with better bat skills in my lifetime.
These conversations tend to be biased towards players whose careers are over - the longer retired, the better. (I don’t agree with this approach, personally, but I’m not going to fight that battle.)
 

GrandSlamPozo

New Member
May 16, 2017
105
If we're talking one peak year v. narrative "value with franchise" I'm surprised we don't see more one-off or peak-peak years.

Some notable (11+ WAR) post WWII seasons to consider:

1985 Dwight Gooden
1972 Steve Carlton
1971 Fergie Jenkins
1991 Cal Ripkin
1975 Joe Morgan

While WAR is imperfect, it's pretty clear the second starting OF on the Sox/Yanks (vomit burp) would be 1967 Yaz. Which I would not have considered at first.




Possibly "die Franzosen"?
If we're picking teams solely on peak seasons, would Rico Petrocelli become the starting SS on the YankSox? His 10.0 WAR in 1969 is higher than any season in Jeter/Nomar's career. Even if you want to throw Arod's pre-Yankee seasons into consideration at SS, his best season (2000) was virtually identical to Petrocelli's in terms of WAR/PA.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
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Sep 6, 2004
36,684
where the darn libs live

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
72,430
And Manny has to be in LF or DH. Manny's numbers in Cleveland are absurd. 998 OPS, an OPS+ of 152, 236 homers in 967 ganes. Per 162 in Cleveland, he had 40 doubles, 40 homers, 135 RBI (I know, I know), scored 112 runs, and walked 91 times. Just video game numbers.
You're not wrong. I wanted to put him in LF, but he was exclusively an RF/DH in Cleveland and Thome has the same 152 OPS+, and I needed an OF on the bench, and since I am heavily biased in favor of Manny, I overcompensated (and no way I'm benching Frank Robinson). Gonna put Manny in, and find another OF for the bench to go alongwith the 2 great corner IF's there.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
72,430
I feel dirty benching Votto. Led or tied NL in OBP 7 times, all as a Red and won an MVP, which Manny didn't do in the regular season! But I'm going peak and Thome and Manny had higher OPS than him.

On 2nd thought, Frank "only' had 150 OPS+ as a Red, with lower OPS. (147 Votto). I need another slugger spot.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Royals/Cardinals

C Simmons
1B Pujols
2B Hornsby
SS Ozzie
3B Brett, G
LF Musial
CF Edmonds
RF Tartabull
DH McGwire

CIF Mize
OF Medwick
OF/PR Brock
MIF/DS White, F.
C Perez, S

SP Gibson
SP Dean
SP Carpenter, C.
SP Appier
SP Saberhagen
RP Sutter
RP Quisenberry
RP Davis, W
RP Herrera
RP Holland

1. Hornsby, 2B
2. Musial, LF
3. McGwire, DH
4. Pujols, 1B
5. Brett, 3B
6. Edmonds, CF
7. Tartabull, RF
8. Simmons, C
9. Ozzie, SS
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,430
Cubs/White Sox


C Hartnett
1B/DH Thomas, F.
2B Collins, E
SS Banks
3B Bryant, K
LF Williams, B
CF Hack W.
RF Ordonez, M
DH/1B Allen, D

2B Sandberg
RF/CF Dawson
3B Santo
C Fisk
* LF Jackson, J
* RF Sosa

SP Walsh
SP Alexander, P.
SP Sale
SP Three Fingers
SP Maddux
SP6 Jenkins
SP7 Wood, W.
RP Wilhelm
RP Sutter
RP Smith, L.
RP Thigpen
RP Foulke

1. Collins, E. 2B
2. Bryant, 3B
3. Thomas, F. 1B
4. Hack W., CF
5. Allen, D., DH
6. Williams, B., LF
7. Ordonez, M. RF
8. Banks, SS
9. Hartnett, C