SOSH Running Dogs

[BleacherFan]

You should do it so you enjoy it. If you dont enjoy running hard, then enjoy just going out for a run. No sense in grinding yourself into dust if it isnt enjoyable. Get your fitness level up then think about racing. Use a race in the future as a goal. Set certain short term goals that will allow you to take the next step in fitness or racing if that's what you want to be able to do. You can still improve your fitness without racing. Many people here run with lesser intensity in the offseason just improving fitness. You cant train hardcore 12 months a year or you'll burn out.

It is tough to run slow...believe me I deal with it every day. But over time it happens. A few years ago I was dying running 5 miles in 50 mins.

There is no more of an individual sport - every runs for their own reason. The only common point is what was already mentioned - you need to love it. No matter what the goal - there's no use doing it unless you like it. If you train for a race and you're miserable doing it - it's probably not going to be worth it. If you're just happy to get out there for a daily run to personally reflect with no eyes on racing - so be it.

No one speaks it better than Fris IMO

Everyone has a different fire inside of them.....

 

[underhandtofirst]

File this under, "Not practicing what you preach"

Today was supposed to be a base 12 mile run. These are supposed to be run anywhere from 30-60 secs over MP, which would be 7:56-8:26. First the good, the hammy and calf were a bit stiff to start, but felt ok after 2 miles. I was able to keep a pretty strong pace for this run. It was getting slightly uncomfortable, but I wasnt dying. Weather was 70 and humid, not bad conditions (See Sass in Dallas), but not great. The bad is that I went out way too fast, just not necessary.

First 1.8 miles: 7:52 pace, all downhill (- 100 ft)
Next 1.7 miles: 7:56 pace, flat (miles 14 and 13 backwards on BayState marathon course)
Next 5k (3.11 miles): 23:50 or 7:40 pace (miles 23-26 of BSM course)

I wasnt checking my time, just running. I thought I might be in the 7:50 range and it was bumming me out because it seemed harder. Yeah, I guess it was! This is a pretty flat course, I just got carried away.

Next 3.4 miles: 7:56 pace (miles .6 to 4 of BSM course). I was trying to take it easy because it was getting tougher, but not too much.
Final 1.8 miles: 8:03 pace, uphill, reverse of first 1.8 miles. Always try to finish strong.

Total of about 11.75 at 7:52. Avg HR of 154 (82% of max), max HR of 170 at very end going up the big hill. I was in the low 160s for the last 6 miles which is approaching LT level.

Pretty even splits, but I'm a little concerned about the injury risk by going too fast on these runs and wiping myself out. I have an easy 6 tomorrow and 18 on Saturday. We'll see if I can stay under control. Not a bad run my any means and I'm probably nitpicking, but I think I can improve my pacing.

 

[the_right_arm_of_God]

Thanks for the words of wisdom and encouragement!

I just went out and did 4.5m at an easy 11:34 average pace. There were a lot of hills (on purpose). I felt like I could have gone on forever. What an awesome run!

I am going to continue following the 12 week plan, because I like to start what I finish, but I'll let the pace set itself. Maybe I won't be ready for the race at the end of 12 weeks... but it is more about the journey than the destination for me right now.

 

[BleacherFan]

Thanks for the words of wisdom and encouragement!

I just went out and did 4.5m at an easy 11:34 average pace. There were a lot of hills (on purpose). I felt like I could have gone on forever. What an awesome run!

I am going to continue following the 12 week plan, because I like to start what I finish, but I'll let the pace set itself. Maybe I won't be ready for the race at the end of 12 weeks... but it is more about the journey than the destination for me right now.

To expand on what upperhand says, even the great Ryan Hall tries to make it a point to leave his watch off on easy runs. I definitely can't pry the watch off my hand, perhaps try that a few times and listen to your body.


Edit: All this rain today killed my motivation to get out there for a 2nd run - I never thought I would look forward to some dry heat

 

[BleacherFan]

Well, I had an interesting workout today - really had no idea what to expect but I wanted to start out below 5k pace and sort of maintain that pace throughout the workout. It was in the mid 80s, sunny and around noon when I started my workout - nice and ideal conditions <ya right>

I was gonna do some "step ups" - all with 1/2 recovery: 400,800,1200,1600

Went through 400 in 67 (4:28 pace)- (uh oh).
Went through 800 in 2:26 (4:52) - (ok that was good)
Went through 1200 in 13:52 (5:11) (ok that sound was the wheels coming off the wagon)
Went through 1600 in 15:16 (ouch)

Both the 1200 and 1600 I started conservatively to save some speed for the last lap. I think I went out wayy too fast for the 400 which took some energy for when I needed it - towards the end of the workout

Overall, 2.5 miles @ 5:04 pace - my goal 5k pace I guess - I felt it was a good workout overall.

 

[Frisbetarian]

There is no more of an individual sport - every runs for their own reason. The only common point is what was already mentioned - you need to love it. No matter what the goal - there's no use doing it unless you like it. If you train for a race and you're miserable doing it - it's probably not going to be worth it. If you're just happy to get out there for a daily run to personally reflect with no eyes on racing - so be it.

No one speaks it better than Fris IMO

Everyone has a different fire inside of them.....

Thanks, hermano.

Echoing what these guys say, you have to love what you're doing or you won't do it for long. I haven't run a race or worn a watch for better than 10 years, but still run somewhere between 25 and 45 miles a week all year, still hit the track once in a while, and still push occasionally, but never want to quantify anything anymore. To be honest, even when I was running 60 mile weeks and racing 30+ times a year, I wasn't much of a plan and quantify guy, which, considering my stat geek proclivity with baseball, is kind of weird. I ran then for fun; I had a group of guys I ran with and we enjoyed it and competed and had a blast. I was lucky enough to have some moderate success, 4 Boston's, sub 30 minute 5 mile, but nothing impressive. There is some regret that I didn't take things more seriously - join a track club, follow a plan, etc., but then I have to wonder if I would still be hitting the roads today or if I would have burned out.

Now I have a group of buddies (mostly smoking hot housewives) I run with, and I still have fun. I stop and talk with friends and neighbors I see along the route, and never stress about pace or mileage. Running has become a social/mental workout as much as it is a physical one. I look forward to my runs as much as I did when I started running better than 30 years ago, and hope to continue running at ever devolving pace for at least 30 more years.

This was a long-winded way of saying just have fun, right-arm, and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[the_right_arm_of_God]

This was a long-winded way of saying just have fun, right-arm, and the rest will take care of itself.

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

considering my stat geek proclivity with baseball

Ironically, although I recognize the validity of most Sabermetric principles, I am much more of a Scout Guy than a Stat Guy. It just seemed prudent to try to maximize my fitness level with a coordinated plan. It was kind of sucking the fun out of it, so I have arrived at a compromise - some days are clock watching and some days ae not. Knowing other runners with higher fitness levels than I sometimes feel the same way is encouraging indeed.

Now I have a group of buddies (mostly smoking hot housewives) I run with

Move over beach volleyball, running is absolutely the next great fronteir of premium talent girl watching! Stretching can get a little steamy.

6 miles at an 11:50 pace on Saturday. Running up and down the Santa Barbara coastline on a perfect day. I believe that kind of a run does more for my mental health than anything that has ever happened to my lactate threshhold!

 

[underhandtofirst]

Thanks, hermano.

Echoing what these guys say, you have to love what you're doing or you won't do it for long. I haven't run a race or worn a watch for better than 10 years, but still run somewhere between 25 and 45 miles a week all year, still hit the track once in a while, and still push occasionally, but never want to quantify anything anymore. To be honest, even when I was running 60 mile weeks and racing 30+ times a year, I wasn't much of a plan and quantify guy, which, considering my stat geek proclivity with baseball, is kind of weird. I ran then for fun; I had a group of guys I ran with and we enjoyed it and competed and had a blast. I was lucky enough to have some moderate success, 4 Boston's, sub 30 minute 5 mile, but nothing impressive. There is some regret that I didn't take things more seriously - join a track club, follow a plan, etc., but then I have to wonder if I would still be hitting the roads today or if I would have burned out.

Now I have a group of buddies (mostly smoking hot housewives) I run with, and I still have fun. I stop and talk with friends and neighbors I see along the route, and never stress about pace or mileage. Running has become a social/mental workout as much as it is a physical one. I look forward to my runs as much as I did when I started running better than 30 years ago, and hope to continue running at ever devolving pace for at least 30 more years.

This was a long-winded way of saying just have fun, right-arm, and the rest will take care of itself.

Yeah nothing impressive there. :bahgawd:

I do envy your approach to running. At this point I still need the racing goals to get me out there. I suppose I'd still run some without those sort of goals, but it makes it easier to get out of bed knowing I have to do certain workouts to reach my goals.

 

[underhandtofirst]

I was pretty pumped up for my tempo run today. It was 11 miles with the middle 6.1 at tempo pace (just under 7 min/mile). Part of the excitement was that I was running on the Bay State Marathon course miles 5-8 and back 8-5 which is somewhat flat so I expected to run sub 7s which would enable me to run under my 10k PR (44:12). Warmed up the first 2.6 in 8:09 pace (downhill), a touch fast, but not terrible. Then came a clinic in running positive splits. 7:04, 7:11, 7:15, 7:21, 7:31, 7:30 add in another 0.1 at about 7:15 in the middle at the turnaround. I knew it was not going to be a good run when the first mile in 7:04 felt somewhat tough. My legs had nothing today, I couldnt even push it much more to get the HR higher or I would have run out of gas.

The last 5 days took more of a toll than I thought (12, 6, 18, off, 6). No soreness or tightness running, my legs just didnt have it today. It wasnt hot or anything (68 and 75% humidity), especially compared to Dave's runs at noon or Sass' runs anytime in Texas! Tomorrow is an off day then its 13, 5 and then my first 20 miler of this year to cap a 55 mile week, my first over 50 ever.

Running log

 

[Guinevere]

I started running because it got me to the finish line in triathlons -- I was always more of a walker. But I came to enjoy the process, and "speed" (I'm still very slow), and especially how my body felt when I finished a good run. I'm currently injured (a bad achilles) and on no running until after Labor Day, when we'll re-evaluate and see if I can get in any fall races. If not, I'm taking the long view --- I'll focus on swimming and cycling right now and be sound for 2009, rather than be stubborn and keep getting injured. Still, having someone say "you can't" do something is a tought pill to swallow.

Fris, I had no idea you were such an accomplished runner. I love your approach -- I usually have my best runs when I go without any gear and just enjoy being outside and moving my body.

 

[underhandtofirst]

I started running because it got me to the finish line in triathlons

How did you get started in triathlons? What distances did you compete in?

Good luck with your achilles. That is one thing about running, it does pound on your body quite a bit. It is good you still have the cycling and swimming to fall back on.

 

[Guinevere]

How did you get started in triathlons? What distances did you compete in?

Good luck with your achilles. That is one thing about running, it does pound on your body quite a bit. It is good you still have the cycling and swimming to fall back on.

I have a friend who races and I kept on asking him a lot of questions about his events. He finally said "why don't you just do one yourself." I, being an 39-year-old athlete wannabe and not really an athlete (although I love swimming, but I'd never ever run, or been on a road bike) immediately said I couldn't. But he wore me down, and I learned about the Danskin series, which is designed for women only, and as a very open and accepting entry into the sport. Then I found a group of women who race, and also struggle with weight, many of whom were athlete wannabe's as well, many who had done various Danskin races. Between that group and my friend, they convinced me I could finish a sprint -- and so I trained, and had a fabulous race. I've done a few more since then, at the sprint distance (approx. 0.5 mi swim/12 mile bike/5K run -- although they have all been a little bit different). I haven't raced in a while because of some physical issues, but I was starting to ramp up to a fall running season, leading to full bore training for the 2009 tri season when the achilles copped out. Next year I plan on doing a handful of local sprints, possibly moving up to the Olympic distance (0.9 mi swim/24 mile bike/10K), with the long-term goal of possibly a half iron in 2011, when I hit 45.

More than you needed to know, huh

 

[BleacherFan]

e. I've done a few more since then, at the sprint distance (approx. 0.5 mi swim/12 mile bike/5K run -- although they have all been a little bit different). I haven't raced in a while because of some physical issues, but I was starting to ramp up to a fall running season, leading to full bore training for the 2009 tri season when the achilles copped out. Next year I plan on doing a handful of local sprints, possibly moving up to the Olympic distance (0.9 mi swim/24 mile bike/10K), with the long-term goal of possibly a half iron in 2011, when I hit 45.

More than you needed to know, huh

One of the most grueling things I've ever done was swim one mile - and it was in a pool - not even in open waters. I don't know how you can do that sort of stuff and do it at such a competive pace. I trained for a 1/2 ironman once (I was going to try Florida) and my goal one day is to do Kona.

 

[Guinevere]

One of the most grueling things I've ever done was swim one mile - and it was in a pool - not even in open waters. I don't know how you can do that sort of stuff and do it at such a competive pace. I trained for a 1/2 ironman once (I was going to try Florida) and my goal one day is to do Kona.

"Competitive pace" is a relative term. I'm a mid-pack swimmer and a back of the pack cyclist and runner. Hopefully, I can move up to MOP in one or the other with some really good training effort, and another significant weight loss -- but it all takes time and a heck of a lot of tenacity.

 

[Frisbetarian]

I'm currently injured (a bad achilles) and on no running until after Labor Day, when we'll re-evaluate and see if I can get in any fall races. If not, I'm taking the long view --- I'll focus on swimming and cycling right now and be sound for 2009, rather than be stubborn and keep getting injured. Still, having someone say "you can't" do something is a tought pill to swallow.

I have had off and on Achilles issues for years, so I'll offer some suggestions that you should take with a grain of salt. The last thing you want to do is rupture an Achilles - it is extremely painful (I've heard), and takes a longgg time to come back from. If yours hurts, take the time to allow it to heal.

A few tips that have helped me:

I choose running shoes with high backs that do not rub against my Achilles. I also occasionally wear heel lifts in my sneakers to get stress off the tendon, although some say this causes stress on the calf. When I do have pain, I use a topical cream called Topricin that my son's Kung Fu instructor suggested. It is odorless and does not tingle, but it really seems to help me, and many of the guys I play ball with it have also become regular Topricin users, as well. I bought a case from the Kung Fu sifu, but you can get Topricin at many health food type stores or order it on-line if you are interested.

Good luck.

 

[BleacherFan]

Well my week is done. Another one in the books and this was a tough one for me...

* 5 doubles
* 12 sessions
* 1 crappy track session
* 1 good progression/tempo run

~65 miles @6:34 pace (little over 7 hours)

Kinda sad to think I had 12 sessions and only managed ~65 miles - oh well, it is what it is and I hope to be running pre-dawn again. It's been an unbearable summer to run in this year. I think my next race will be in September...

Dave

 

[Guinevere]

I have had off and on Achilles issues for years, so I'll offer some suggestions that you should take with a grain of salt. The last thing you want to do is rupture an Achilles - it is extremely painful (I've heard), and takes a longgg time to come back from. If yours hurts, take the time to allow it to heal.

A few tips that have helped me:

I choose running shoes with high backs that do not rub against my Achilles. I also occasionally wear heel lifts in my sneakers to get stress off the tendon, although some say this causes stress on the calf. When I do have pain, I use a topical cream called Topricin that my son's Kung Fu instructor suggested. It is odorless and does not tingle, but it really seems to help me, and many of the guys I play ball with it have also become regular Topricin users, as well. I bought a case from the Kung Fu sifu, but you can get Topricin at many health food type stores or order it on-line if you are interested.

Good luck.

Thanks Fris, for the tips. I injured this same achilles playing tennis 3 years ago, so its a bit of a chronic problem. I use
arnica gel, and I've also got it taped with kinesio tape which is amazing! Its still swollen, but the pain is way way down.

 

[amh03]

Anyone going to be running Falmouth this coming weekend?

 

[underhandtofirst]

Boy am I wiped out from this week. First of all trying to train while on vacation with the family in NH was very difficult. Sleeping, eating and basic living routines are out the window. Then trying to get up each day at 5am to run was tough. One I ran at 3:45am because I woke up at 2:30 and couldnt go back to sleep, so I went out and ran 12 miles. Weather sucked too. Yeah, I know, boo hoo

Yesterday I was nervous about my long run, 16 miles with the last 12 supposed to be at MP. Ran the first 3.85 at 8:38, a real nice easy warmup. I was aiming for 7:26-7:28. My splits ended up being 7:32, 37, 29, 25, 26, 26, 37, 34, 41, 37, 45 (uphill 50ft), 8:20 (uphill 150ft). The first 10 were miles on miles 4-14 of the BSM course.

I'm still going to try the Good Times 5k tomorrow night. Hopefully I can get some decent turnover in my legs. The goal is to go sub 20, but I've never run at this point in a marathon training program so I'm not sure what I'll have.

 

[BleacherFan]

One I ran at 3:45am because I woke up at 2:30 and couldnt go back to sleep, so I went out and ran 12 miles. Weather sucked too. Yeah, I know, boo hoo

Funny, I never seem have good weeks training when I'm on vacation. And you have an extra 40-50 hours for training but I never manage the mileage I would like to get in.

Yesterday I was nervous about my long run, 16 miles with the last 12 supposed to be at MP. Ran the first 3.85 at 8:38, a real nice easy warmup. I was aiming for 7:26-7:28. My splits ended up being 7:32, 37, 29, 25, 26, 26, 37, 34, 41, 37, 45 (uphill 50ft), 8:20 (uphill 150ft). The first 10 were miles on miles 4-14 of the BSM course.

That would be from about the Rourke and back right? That is a good workout - did you feel in control the whole way?

I'm still going to try the Good Times 5k tomorrow night. Hopefully I can get some decent turnover in my legs. The goal is to go sub 20, but I've never run at this point in a marathon training program so I'm not sure what I'll have.

Nice, tell Dave I said Hi if you see him - he's a great guy and I hope you can beat him :bravo:

 

[underhandtofirst]

That would be from about the Rourke and back right? That is a good workout - did you feel in control the whole way?
Nice, tell Dave I said Hi if you see him - he's a great guy and I hope you can beat him

I ran from the 4 mile mark all the way the loop back over the bridge (13 mile mark) and continued along the course to mile 14. Instead of taking a right on Route 4 I took a left to head back home (~2 miles away).

I wouldnt say I was in control really. The first 6 or 7 I was doing well, I always felt I was pushing it a little bit. Then my time dropped to 7:37 then 7:41 for what are really slight downhill or flat miles. I pushed it a bit more to try and get under 7:30 again, but my legs just didnt have it. I just wanted to take a nap. Probably a result of getting only 5 hours of sleep because I'm an idiot and was watching the Olympics!

Last night I was checking out the Hyannis website because I may run the marathon there instead of the HM I did this year. That is if I dont go sub 3:16 in Lowell.

Oh and another problem with vacation...eating too much crap. No wonder I havent lost any weight in the last month. Combine that with a million family gatherings and it's a wonder I'm not playing LB for the Pats right now :bravo: If I can drop just 5 lbs (to go under 170) I'll be doing well. More fruit and less burgers, etc.

 

[BleacherFan]

Last night I was checking out the Hyannis website because I may run the marathon there instead of the HM I did this year. That is if I dont go sub 3:16 in Lowell.

There's some confidence lacking - already looking past Bay State

Don't put too much credence in these training runs - you're doing a lot of miles and that's a tough workout right there. And you may not come close to your PR for a 5k tomorrow . In fact I hate running 5k's when training for distance races because I feel like I have to do 5k before and 5 after just to get my mileage in. The reality is that you're pumping out some mileage that your body hasn't done with any consistency - remember, just get past the plateaus and you're in business.

My "doubles hell" is officially over. My work has the gym closed for the next month so no more sneaking out at lunch for a quick 4/5 miles - I will be trying to run 45 minutes (or 7 miles) after work and two hours on the weekends. Lately I've been doing more "tempo" stuff - sorta between a slow 1/2 pace and goal marathon place (5:40-5:50) - just trying to get the pace down so I can do it in my sleep. I still want to start doing some hill repeats again and continue the track stuff. I'm going back to less volume over the next few weeks but higher intensity.

I guess that's good because my planned races in early September will help if I ease up a little bit toward the middle to end of August. I don't want my mileage to dip too low - I would like to still manage 50+ miles a week.


The last 8 weeks of training for me have been averaging close to 60mpw with some good intensity - I feel like I've back from my Memorial Day debacle. Definitely no fall marathon but I did get my Boston deferment approved for 09 so we'll see how that goes....

 

[underhandtofirst]

There's some confidence lacking - already looking past Bay State :c070:

Yeah I know. The more I run the more I realize I wasnt built for the marathon and that it is going to be very tough. I got a kick out of Nate Jenkins' blog entry the other day about how his PR in the 400 was 58 in HS. Back in the day I ran 55 consistently and had a PR of 53. Everyone's made for different distances, I keep trying to learn how to improve my weaknesses (endurance and stamina). I keep pushing because it will be so great when I do qualify!

Don't put too much credence in these training runs - you're doing a lot of miles and that's a tough workout right there. And you may not come close to your PR for a 5k tomorrow . In fact I hate running 5k's when training for distance races because I feel like I have to do 5k before and 5 after just to get my mileage in. The reality is that you're pumping out some mileage that your body hasn't done with any consistency - remember, just get past the plateaus and you're in business.

I hear you there. I try and think back to past year and how tired I was and then during the race I felt 1000 times better.

My "doubles hell" is officially over. My work has the gym closed for the next month so no more sneaking out at lunch for a quick 4/5 miles - I will be trying to run 45 minutes (or 7 miles) after work and two hours on the weekends. Lately I've been doing more "tempo" stuff - sorta between a slow 1/2 pace and goal marathon place (5:40-5:50) - just trying to get the pace down so I can do it in my sleep. I still want to start doing some hill repeats again and continue the track stuff. I'm going back to less volume over the next few weeks but higher intensity.

Wait a second, are you actually starting to plan workouts in advance? Like with paces and goals? Wow. ;-) On a serious note, I did one hill workout each week leading up to Hyannis and I felt it was very helpful.

Definitely no fall marathon but I did get my Boston deferment approved for 09 so we'll see how that goes....

That's pretty cool. Do you have to submit recent times or anything to prove you are in decent shape or do they take your word that you don't look like you spent the year eating cupcakes on the couch?

I'll see you in Hopkinton!

 

[underhandtofirst]

The Baystate Marathon is capping its field at 1500 runners. Through last Friday 8/8 they were at 1193 per the website.

 

[underhandtofirst]

I ran the Good Times 5k tonight. More evidence that the training is working and I'm built for shorter distances. I ran another 5k PR at 19:39. And I killed Dave :barf: I'm looking forward to getting my towel next week.

Dave I told him you said hi. He said, "He's a great guy".

Splits:
1 - 6:05 (net -40 ft)
2 - 6:28 (net +10 ft)
3 - 7:06 (net -15 ft, 6:13 pace)
Final Time: 19:39 (PR by 5 seconds)

I'm pretty sure I missed the 3 mile marker so that split is probably a bit slower than actual. I didnt know where the finish was and was passed by a guy in the last .1. When I finally saw the clock I closed the gap, but it was too late.

Probably went out a bit too hard, but I felt ok so I didnt fight it. Ran the 2nd mile along the VFW Parkway and the light rain helped create a big rainbow up ahead which was pretty cool to see for the entire mile. Going through the first mile in 6:05 I had thoughts of 19 mins, but that was unrealistic. After 2 miles I adjusted my thoughts to get a new PR. Very pleased with this race.

edit: checked usatf site and the course is 3.14 miles, adjusted my splits

 

[BleacherFan]

I ran the Good Times 5k tonight. More evidence that the training is working and I'm built for shorter distances. I ran another 5k PR at 19:39. And I killed Dave :lol: I'm looking forward to getting my towel next week.

Dave I told him you said hi. He said, "He's a great guy".

Splits:
1 - 6:05 (net -40 ft)
2 - 6:28 (net +10 ft)
3 - 7:06 (net -15 ft, 6:13 pace)
Final Time: 19:39 (PR by 5 seconds)

I'm pretty sure I missed the 3 mile marker so that split is probably a bit slower than actual. I didnt know where the finish was and was passed by a guy in the last .1. When I finally saw the clock I closed the gap, but it was too late.

Probably went out a bit too hard, but I felt ok so I didnt fight it. Ran the 2nd mile along the VFW Parkway and the light rain helped create a big rainbow up ahead which was pretty cool to see for the entire mile. Going through the first mile in 6:05 I had thoughts of 19 mins, but that was unrealistic. After 2 miles I adjusted my thoughts to get a new PR. Very pleased with this race.

edit: checked usatf site and the course is 3.14 miles, adjusted my splits

Nice job - it's a tough little course also - it's flat but I found a lot of turns making it tough to get in a groove.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Race Predictor

There are a lot of race predictor sites out there, but most are based on a single race. These models work for some, but not for all. The above link uses the results from two races to determine a projected time for a race.
Here's the algorithm explained below:

Pete Riegel developed a formula in 1977 that states that t2 = t1 * (d2 / d1)1.06 where t1 equals the initial time, d1 equals the initial distance, d2 equals the new distance being calculated for, and t2 equals the predicted time for the new distance. The exponent 1.06 means that, for n times the distance, most people need n1.06 times the time. 
However, the exponent 1.06 doesn't fit every runner. In reality, it depends on the type of the runner. 1.06 seems to be a good value for 5000m runners. Ultra-distance runners often have a decay exponent of 1.04 or even 1.03. At the other side of the spectrum, sprinters and decathletes have exponents of up to 1.30. A high exponent means that you slow down rapidly with increasing distance. 

By using two initial distances d1 and d2, calculate the decay exponent: decay = log (t2 / t1) / log (d2 / d1). 
Then, calculate the time for the third distance as t3 = t2 * (d3 / d2)decay.

Runner Decay exponent 
Sabrina Mockenhaupt 1.05 
Kenenisa Bekele 1.06 
Michael Johnson 1.16

I've found this to work a bit better for me. Based on some recent PRs, my exponent is about 1.09. So how does this work for you?

 

[BleacherFan]

Race Predictor

There are a lot of race predictor sites out there, but most are based on a single race. These models work for some, but not for all. The above link uses the results from two races to determine a projected time for a race.


I've found this to work a bit better for me. Based on some recent PRs, my exponent is about 1.09. So how does this work for you?

I'm probably an outlier for many reasons (lack of recent racing, etc), but I have a target 10k in a few weeks on Labor Day. I entered in my PRs for the maraton and my 5k and it came out for a "prediction" of 34:46 for the 10k. In all honesty, I'm hoping to be closer to 33 flat but we'll see

My decay was 1.1008

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

Well, according to that and based on my last two races (1:51:21 half, 23:26 5k), I'd be able to run a 3:56:01 marathon. 46 minutes to go! The MacMillan calculator gives me 3:54:50 and 3:48:27 for those times.

So as of today, I haven't run in seven weeks, a break imposed by my tibiae. I've been hitting the elliptical pretty hard in an attempt to maintain my cardio, and every morning I've done several exercises to strengthen my lower legs. I think Fris had recommended doing those toe taps (dorsiflexing?) - I went from not being able to do 30 in a row, to doing three sets of 100. Add in some heel/duck-walking and hopefully my shin problems will be over. I'll find out starting Saturday. I'm really damn excited - I've suffered definite withdrawal.

If everything goes well, I'm going to resume the speedwork I was doing during the week, and slowly build up mileage on the weekends to get ready for my first BAA half marathon.

 

[BleacherFan]

If everything goes well, I'm going to resume the speedwork I was doing during the week, and slowly build up mileage on the weekends to get ready for my first BAA half marathon.

Nice to see you're mending - take it easy on the speedwork though - I was always told to build 3-4 weeks of base before trying any speed after an injury.

That's a tough but beautiful course.

 

[underhandtofirst]

If everything goes well, I'm going to resume the speedwork I was doing during the week, and slowly build up mileage on the weekends to get ready for my first BAA half marathon.

What kind of speedwork? Do you mean intervals (400,800,1200 at 5k pace) or tempo runs (15k to HM pace)?

I found doing speedwork without having built up a decent pace killed my legs and often caused some minor injuries. This year I included some strides every week at the end of 3 or 4 miles which helps your speed, but isnt as taxing. They were helpful in allowing me to run at a fast pace, even for a short distance. Then every other week I'd run tempo intervals (15k-HM pace) which are a little easier than tempo runs because the intervals are 1-1.5 miles with a couple mins of slow jogging in between as opposed to 3-7 miles straight at tempo pace. You might find these allow you to build back up slowly.

 

[underhandtofirst]

:barf:

That was me after my run today. The plan was about 11.5 with 7 at tempo pace (~7 min/mi). It was perfect out today, 53 and clear. Ran ~2 mile warmup at 8:10. Last week I think I ran my warmup too slow and it was tough to bump the pace up later. Next I ran the tempo portion from mile 4-8 on the marathon course, then back from 8-5. The splits: 6:57, 6:59, 7:02, 6:56, 6:55, 7:00, 6:47. Finally, I ran ~3 miles back at 8:20 pace.

This has to rank as one of my best workouts ever. The 5k race last week was a big confidence boost as I kept thinking about about how I ran through the pain. I was never in that kind of pain today. In fact, I still had another gear at the end. During the workout I beat my 10k PR by a full minute.

Another thought I kept going back to during the run was a quote I read from Ryan Hall (US Olympic Trials champ). He says when the race gets tough in the end he remembers back to how he fought through his tempo runs during training. That helped keep me focused on running a strong consistent pace.

Just under 2 months to go, time for the home stretch.

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

All I have time for during the week these days is like 15 minutes on the treadmill. So back in April and May I was just slowly increasing speed or mileage or both. So, like, Tuesday I'd run 2.0mi at 9.0mph, then 9.1mph on Thursday. No big leaps, no rushing, I just want to slowly and comfortably get to where I can run, say, 3 miles in 18 minutes.

 

[BleacherFan]

That was me after my run today. The plan was about 11.5 with 7 at tempo pace (~7 min/mi). It was perfect out today, 53 and clear. Ran ~2 mile warmup at 8:10. Last week I think I ran my warmup too slow and it was tough to bump the pace up later. Next I ran the tempo portion from mile 4-8 on the marathon course, then back from 8-5. The splits: 6:57, 6:59, 7:02, 6:56, 6:55, 7:00, 6:47. Finally, I ran ~3 miles back at 8:20 pace.

That is a nice workout indeed - nice job! Did the legs feel good during the cooldown? 8:20 wasn't that far off from your wu which is nice.

I also did some nice tempo work (though not as nice as yours). It was too damn dark by the time my daughter fell asleep so I did 5 loops around my neighborhood (1.1 miles each).

7:06 (6:27)
6:25 (5:50)
6:23 (5:48)
6:25 (5:50)
6:08 (5:34)

Overall 5.5 miles @ 5:56 pace - legs felt good - breathing a little heavy but maintainable.

 

[underhandtofirst]

That is a nice workout indeed - nice job! Did the legs feel good during the cooldown? 8:20 wasn't that far off from your wu which is nice.

I also did some nice tempo work (though not as nice as yours). It was too damn dark by the time my daughter fell asleep so I did 5 loops around my neighborhood (1.1 miles each).

7:06 (6:27)
6:25 (5:50)
6:23 (5:48)
6:25 (5:50)
6:08 (5:34)

Overall 5.5 miles @ 5:56 pace - legs felt good - breathing a little heavy but maintainable.

I cant say they did, they were tired. That said, the 8:20 pace coming home (uphill) was comfortable, almost relaxing. The pace was probably quicker coming home when factoring in the hills. Actually, my legs feel pretty decent now. They better because I've got a lot of work to do this week.


It looks like you almost did a progression run, nice kick at the end. What 10k are you planning on 9/1? Looking over the list of events there are 95% 5k it seems. Very few 10k anymore, at least in Mass.

 

[BleacherFan]

It looks like you almost did a progression run, nice kick at the end. What 10k are you planning on 9/1? Looking over the list of events there are 95% 5k it seems. Very few 10k anymore, at least in Mass.

Malden 10k - I've won it the last couple of years, I should go down and three-peat - They have a 5k and a 10k - last year I heard a sigh of relief when I broke off to the 10k ahead of the 5k leaders :bravo:

Have you thought of any tune-up longer stuff before baystate like a 1/2 or anything? On labor day there are those races in Gloucester and you could always just do the goose (7m) at MP or a little faster.

When I ran Baystate, I ran a 1/2 in Wilmington almost exactly a month before Baystate..

 

[underhandtofirst]

Malden 10k - I've won it the last couple of years, I should go down and three-peat - They have a 5k and a 10k - last year I heard a sigh of relief when I broke off to the 10k ahead of the 5k leaders :bravo:

Have you thought of any tune-up longer stuff before baystate like a 1/2 or anything? On labor day there are those races in Gloucester and you could always just do the goose (7m) at MP or a little faster.

When I ran Baystate, I ran a 1/2 in Wilmington almost exactly a month before Baystate..

That has to be a cool feeling to win the race. Do you have a shot at breaking a course record? Can you run the 5k course and double back to win the 10k?

I've been shooting for the 25k in Gloucester, just trying to make sure there arent any last minute family gatherings coming up. My plan calls for 17 mi w/ 14 at MP that weekend anyway. I find running in a race is easier to maintain a good pace because of the people running with you and the whole race atmosphere.

 

[BleacherFan]

That has to be a cool feeling to win the race. Do you have a shot at breaking a course record? Can you run the 5k course and double back to win the 10k?

My first victory was a wierd feeling - I was paranoid the whole way after 2 miles because I didn't want to turn around to see how close the guy was in 2nd - I just kept following the cop car. I had negative thoughts the whole time that I would get passed in the final miles cuz I was feeling it towards the end. Turns out I won by a few minutes - but I hated it at the time.

I've been shooting for the 25k in Gloucester, just trying to make sure there arent any last minute family gatherings coming up. My plan calls for 17 mi w/ 14 at MP that weekend anyway. I find running in a race is easier to maintain a good pace because of the people running with you and the whole race atmosphere.

Pefect - sounds like it will fit in nicely

 

[ReadySetTiant]

I've enjoyed following the 'running dogs' for some time now and salute you all. This weekend, to "fête" the 400 years since the settlement of Québec City, they're having a special édition of the Quebec City Marathon. For those familiar with the terrain, the full marathon starts in Lévis and finishes near le vieux port. The course takes you along both sides of the St Lawrence. It is shaping up to be a magnificent weekend to be there. I am curious to know if anyone here is registered for it. Unfortunately, I am not. I am looking forward to Hartford in October.

 

[TallerThanPedroia]

5.5 at 7:50, entirely pain free, except for the usual haven't-run-in-seven-weeks stuff (like my feet). I'm stiff now but that'll pass too. If there are good conditions for the Ollie 5m in two weeks, I think I can pull off 7:30. I ran 8:38 two years ago.

 

[BleacherFan]

5.5 at 7:50, entirely pain free, except for the usual haven't-run-in-seven-weeks stuff (like my feet). I'm stiff now but that'll pass too. If there are good conditions for the Ollie 5m in two weeks, I think I can pull off 7:30. I ran 8:38 two years ago.

Nice - I think that's a safe conservative goal - barring any crazy September heat!

I just finished my second week of 'singles' mileage. My 8 weeks of 60mpw consisted of 3-5 doubles a week and I was a little nervous that going to a 50mpw schedule with only singles woulds hurt me - I think it's helped me. Those 3-5 days I'm out running 40min+ - helping my legs get a little stronger. When I was doubling I would normally run 32 on one run and 28 on another.

Friday after work , my legs were completely zonked - I could barely push out 5 miles and my legs didn't want to budge. Given this, I was a little nervous about my tempo 5k the next morning. I ended up running fine and I am chalking it up to a normal 'plateau' with my mileage - more proof that even with the dip in mileage, I'm still gaining strength..

 

[Frisbetarian]

I just wanted to check in quickly to congratulate everyone posting here for their efforts and gains, and to wish BleacherFan and underhandtofirst best of luck in their Labor Day races. The Malden race used to be a half marathon sponsored by the Irish American Club and, since I grew up in Malden, it was always a race I wanted to run. But the 25K in Gloucester was just so much fun to run, was on such a nice course, and had so many legendary post race parties, that I ran it 16 years in a row (1979 - 1994) and never did the home town run. Some regret, but tons of good Gloucester memories.

I hope the weather is good for both of you, and you both finish safely and reach your goals.

Underhand, if it's a nice day, or their are decent waves, I'll be in Gloucester Monday and will come out and give you a cheer as you pass Good Harbor Beach if you PM me your race number.

 

[BleacherFan]

I just wanted to check in quickly to congratulate everyone posting here for their efforts and gains, and to wish BleacherFan and underhandtofirst best of luck in their Labor Day races. The Malden race used to be a half marathon sponsored by the Irish American Club and, since I grew up in Malden, it was always a race I wanted to run. But the 25K in Gloucester was just so much fun to run, was on such a nice course, and had so many legendary post race parties, that I ran it 16 years in a row (1979 - 1994) and never did the home town run. Some regret, but tons of good Gloucester memories.

I hope the weather is good for both of you, and you both finish safely and reach your goals.

Underhand, if it's a nice day, or their are decent waves, I'll be in Gloucester Monday and will come out and give you a cheer as you pass Good Harbor Beach if you PM me your race number.

Thank you kind sir - it's always interesting to hear where the old races were back in the heyday of NE running (1980's into 90's). Someone will make a mint on the history of NE road running one day in a book - I am always intrigued to hear of the days when breaking 2:30 at Boston was no big deal and when cracking 15:00 for a 5k meant you still finished top 25....

 

[underhandtofirst]

I just wanted to check in quickly to congratulate everyone posting here for their efforts and gains, and to wish BleacherFan and underhandtofirst best of luck in their Labor Day races. The Malden race used to be a half marathon sponsored by the Irish American Club and, since I grew up in Malden, it was always a race I wanted to run. But the 25K in Gloucester was just so much fun to run, was on such a nice course, and had so many legendary post race parties, that I ran it 16 years in a row (1979 - 1994) and never did the home town run. Some regret, but tons of good Gloucester memories.

I hope the weather is good for both of you, and you both finish safely and reach your goals.

Underhand, if it's a nice day, or their are decent waves, I'll be in Gloucester Monday and will come out and give you a cheer as you pass Good Harbor Beach if you PM me your race number.

All set for Labor Day. Fris, sorry I didnt get up in August to run the course. I hope to at least drive it the morning of the race.

I'm going to flip 2 weeks in my plan to get the race in. Not quite sure what I'm going to run with the hills and lack of taper. If I could run my half marathon pace (7:15) I'd be thrilled, but 7:30-7:40 is more likely. I'll try to remember to PM my race number the day of the race.

The last couple weeks have been pretty good training wise. My second 20 mile run on Sunday went very well as I felt very good the entire run including running the last mile at tempo pace without much trouble. I started the run very slow at MP + 1.5 mins (by design) which paid off.

 

[underhandtofirst]

I got this email today:

Subject: Registration Closing: Baystate Marathon and Lowell Sun 1/2 Marathon

*** The registration period for the marathon and half-marathon will close at 10pm (EST) Sunday Aug 31, 2008 ***

Last chance for your friends and family to register for either race. Please let them know.

You can review your confirmed registration at baystatemarathon.com

Any registration questions should be emailed to baystateglrr@gmail.com

Thanks for running!

*** The registration period for the marathon and half-marathon will close at 10pm (EST) Sunday Aug 31, 2008 ***

I think they are going to be over the cap of 1500 on the marathon.


I had another nice workout this morning (I'm on a roll). 5x1000m at 5k pace and 2min recovery.
Intervals (1000m): 3:51, 3:48, 3:46, 3:45, 3:46 (woohoo!) - about 6:06 pace or approx 18:56 5k time
Recoveries (300m): 1:58, 1:56, 1:55, 1:53

Pace was a bit quicker than 5k pace, but then again maybe not!

 

[BleacherFan]

I got this email today:
I think they are going to be over the cap of 1500 on the marathon.

Good for those guys - they built that race back up. I guess there were a lot of problems in the mid/late 90's organizationally

Pace was a bit quicker than 5k pace, but then again maybe not!

That's a monster workout! I would be really spent and I doubt I could hit 5x1000 at my 5k pace - guess it's more of my 'wishful' 5k pace (5:00) :lol:

It's gonna get tough during this final stretch keeping in some of the energy since you're full of optimism and your legs are very strong. Keep within yourself and watch out on Labor day - it's a tough course and back off if you feel anything.

 

[BleacherFan]

Today I ran the Irish American 10k in Malden today - I really wanted to break 34 - that was the big goal going in. But the #1 goal was to win - I had won this 2 years in a row and if I had to run a strategic race first and foremost, I would.

I show up and see two pieces of bad news: 1. New course this year! Damn, I just lost a little edge having known the course and 2. I saw a young guy warming up with BAA shorts - uh oh.

After a 2 mile warm up, I dilly dally around taking to some people and then head to the start. I ask the BAA guy which race he is doing (5 or 10k) - turns out the 10k - great. With this new course, everyone goes out the first 3 miles together and then the 10k guys break down for a few more, it's always good to know who's running what before the race starts.

Gun goes off and I decide that I'm going to stick with this guy and see what he's going to be doing. An uphill mile 1 in 5:34 and a downhill mile 2 in 5:28 also throws any sub-34 out the window for me - but at this point it's all about winning.

We get to the 10k-5k split and we are ahead of the 5k'ers as well so we push ahead - I start to cramp up around 3.5 and I am dumb enough to tell him. We hit 4 I feel a little better and I start to get aggrivated because I thought he was drafting me as we went through a windy section. Because of this, I wanted him to work a little to draft me so I picked up the pace a little more.

I hit 5M, and I decided to go ahead and push - give whatever I have left - if he beats me, he beats me but I left it all out there. Next thing I know, I come up to 6 M and he's fallen off. .2 miles later and I cross the finish line.

Few posistives: I won a strategic race - something I suck at and a 1 min PR for 10k on a hot day w/ a tough course
Negs: I still have work to go to get to sub 34 ( I do think the course was long also - note the 5th mile split)

Splits: 5:34,5:28,5:31,5:32,6:09,6:30 (1.2) (34:46)

 

[underhandtofirst]

Today I ran the Irish American 10k in Malden today - I really wanted to break 34 - that was the big goal going in. But the #1 goal was to win - I had won this 2 years in a row and if I had to run a strategic race first and foremost, I would.

snip

We get to the 10k-5k split and we are ahead of the 5k'ers as well so we push ahead - I start to cramp up around 3.5 and I am dumb enough to tell him. We hit 4 I feel a little better and I start to get aggrivated because I thought he was drafting me as we went through a windy section. Because of this, I wanted him to work a little to draft me so I picked up the pace a little more.

I hit 5M, and I decided to go ahead and push - give whatever I have left - if he beats me, he beats me but I left it all out there. Next thing I know, I come up to 6 M and he's fallen off. .2 miles later and I cross the finish line.

Few posistives: I won a strategic race - something I suck at and a 1 min PR for 10k on a hot day w/ a tough course
Negs: I still have work to go to get to sub 34 ( I do think the course was long also - note the 5th mile split)

Splits: 5:34,5:28,5:31,5:32,6:09,6:30 (1.2) (34:46)

Nice win! It did get a little warm out there today. Nice day to watch a race though.

I hate when people draft me. It happens, but sometimes you can tell they are just camping out. It would burn me up more if I were in your position (behind the police car!)

Ran the 25k in 1:57:30 for 7:33 pace. The splits were VERY positive. I started the race on the starting line next to Patrick Moulton because nobody else would. I knew my goal pace was 7:15-7:20. A dream race would be 7:10. So I coast along and hit the first mile in 6:48. Um, it felt good at least. Second mile I slowed down (I thought), and ran 7:01. Next two mile were right around 7:17. Now I think I'm the man cruising along. I'm mastering drinking water while running churning out 7:17 miles like its nothing. Then I start wondering, where are all the downhills? I smoking all these miles going mostly uphill. Around mile 7 I'm starting to look for mile markers so I know I'm in trouble because I'm not even halfway there.

The first 6 miles there was water every mile or more. Of course it was all in the shade and cool. I think from 6 to 11 there was 1 water stop and that was a random guy carrying water. He ruled. And yes, this part was all in the sun. Finally the water stops appeared again at 11 or so through the finish. I dropped to 8:24 pace for the last 2 miles and was able to muster a kick for the final .56 at 7:20 pace up what seemed like a few flights of stairs! I came close to doing a technicolor yawn after that hill. I composed myself (never stopping running) and got a bit of a sprint going to finish.

Someone said your pace in this race is right about marathon pace. That would be nice. Today was my 4th day in a row running so I didn't really taper except that the last two days were slower than normal.

I was bummed I ran out of gas, but it was nice to cruise along for a while and I almost set a 10k pr over the first 6.2 and missed my half marathon pr by about a minute. If I can keep from going out too fast I should be able to go under 3:20 next month, I need under 3:16.

Oh and I introduced myself asking if he was Casey Moulton, and he said he was Patrick. I felt like an idiot. Yeah, I know they are twins, but I should have checked that. Anyway, he was a nice guy.

Mile	Split	HR
1.00	6:48	170
2.00	7:00	165
3.00	7:18	163
4.00	7:17	170
5.00	7:20	163
6.00	7:25	172
7.00	7:12	173
8.00	7:16	170
9.00	7:40	166
10.00	7:39	169
11.00	7:32	166
12.00	7:57	167
13.00	8:05	166
14.00	8:25	170
15.00	8:24	164
15.56	4:10	179 (.56 for 7:26 pace)

 

[Frisbetarian]

Congrats on your Labor Day races, guys. Nice work. 3 in a row, Bleach; the old Malden Labor Day half marathon was famous for having one long mile, as well.

That dry northwest wind always makes running tough for me, I like the humidity, so I applaud both of your efforts in what I consider difficult conditions.

That last hill in Gloucester is a bitch, eh? I loved that race, but had a hell run there one year, with the last 5.5 taking me almost an hour after the first 10 took under 65 minutes. It was a hot day and I had a bad cold, but I was well trained and thought I could break 1:45 so I ran anyway. I went out too fast and started to feel woozy in the stretch between Rockport and Good Harbor, finally tossing a technicolor yawn into the woods just after the 10 mile mark. I was cooked after that, but continued for what may have been the hardest 5 of my life. It sucked.

I thought it best to wait until after the race to tell that story.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Congrats on your Labor Day races, guys. Nice work. 3 in a row, Bleach; the old Malden Labor Day half marathon was famous for having one long mile, as well.

That dry northwest wind always makes running tough for me, I like the humidity, so I applaud both of your efforts in what I consider difficult conditions.

That last hill in Gloucester is a bitch, eh? I loved that race, but had a hell run there one year, with the last 5.5 taking me almost an hour after the first 10 took under 65 minutes. It was a hot day and I had a bad cold, but I was well trained and thought I could break 1:45 so I ran anyway. I went out too fast and started to feel woozy in the stretch between Rockport and Good Harbor, finally tossing a technicolor yawn into the woods just after the 10 mile mark. I was cooked after that, but continued for what may have been the hardest 5 of my life. It sucked.

I thought it best to wait until after the race to tell that story.

I felt cold at parts of the race yesterday because I was sweating a good deal, but you'd hit a shady patch and get the chills. It was weird running with goosebumps when it was mid tp upper 70s and sunny. I would have liked more water stops on the run down the east coast, but you make do.

The last hill was tough, but it was so steep it doesnt feel like most other hills. After the hill you still have another 1/4 mile which seems like forever because the hill saps whatever is left in your legs. I felt like the hill right at the 14 mile mark was rough too. There were a few others thrown in, I think during mile 9 or 10 was a rough one. It was challenging to get a rhythm or consistent pace with all the ups and downs.

That's quite a story. That stretch you mention had to be tough on a hot day. Yesterday was very sunny and warm, but not what I'd consider hot. There's just no shade around there. Also, you're running beside cars the entire time so the air isnt the best.