SOSH Running Dogs

Bongorific

Thinks he’s clever
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
7,671
Balboa Towers
Bongo - fortunately, the hammy is the simplest major muscle to stretch effectively. And yoga isn't necessarily the best way to do it. It can be, but many people overdo it in yoga, which can have the opposite effect, as well as put too much pressure on the joints.
Thanks again for the great info KW. I'll work on those stretches and hopefully get things loosened up. Do you have a background in PT? You use a lot of the same lingo as my PT friends.
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
4,725
Houston, TX
Hey all Boston-area Running Dogs - this Saturday at MIT the Sun Multisport World Expo is taking place, and I will be there as a sponsor. If you are interested in triathlon or any of its three disciplines and want to catch up on some of the latest developments in coaching, training, equipment, etc., drop by the Zesiger Sports & Fitness Center at MIT (Vassar Street) between 10:30 and 4:30. I'll be at booth 119, just to your right from the main entrance to the expo.
 

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
337
Orange, CT
- from a standing position, do a front lunge with one leg, keeping the back leg stationary. Keep the foot of the outstretched leg flat on the ground. From the lunge position, try to touch the instep of the outstretched foot with the elbow of that same side. Really lean into this stretch - it's going to work you hammy, your glute, and some of your quad and adductor muscles on that side. Single greatest leg stretch I know. Do 5 per side each time.
Kremlin,

Do you have a visual on this one from the 'net? I'm sure something is not quite right with my form.

Cheers,

Roland
 

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
337
Orange, CT
All,

Our oldest is now running for junior high. He needs to run when I can't take him so the SWMBO would like to track him out in the world. Using MapMyRun gives sporadic GPS feedback for the free app and has proven to be nearly useless. Anyone know if the GPS is improved with the pay app or a better app to recommend?

Cheers,

Roland
 

TallerThanPedroia

Civilly Disobedient
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
20,377
Boston
I was gaming this out on Daily Mile with UTF but it's kinda cramped writing in the comments there.

My goal is to BQ. I'll be 32 in May so I'm aiming for 3:05:00 for the forseeable future, which is 7:04min/mi. I haven't run any marathons since the 2007 Baystate Marathon and the 2008 Phoenix marathon (three months apart...not recommended) after deciding that actually running marathons takes too much recovery and wastes too much time, and that I should just improve my half marathon time until I get fast enough, and then stretch back out. And then of course I had several injuries that kept me from doing even that.

But anyway, last fall I did the BAA Half in 1:41:38. The next one is the Run to Remember in May, and I'm setting 1:35:00 as an outside goal. If I hit that, I'll go for 1:30:00 in the BAA Half in October. If I pull that off, it'd leave me a year to get a little faster (maybe aim for 1:25:00 at the following RtR) and then stretch out for the Baystate Marathon in October 2013.

I'm pretty set on using Baystate for my BQ attempt, whenever that happens to be, because I want a familiar course, and I don't think flying across the country to do Phoenix again is a viable option. And if I have to wait until 2014, so be it. Rushing cost me two years already, and if I hadn't I might be running Boston this month.

So anyway, I'm curious what other BQ'ers think, and how their experiences were. UTF says his HM PR is 1:35, and he did a 3:19 Marathon to BQ afterwards. That points to my needing a 1:26ish HM.
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
4,725
Houston, TX
TTP:


The convention in calculating running times over greater distances is for every doubling of distance, double the time and add 10%. So by that convention, to project to a 3:05 marathon, you’d need a 1:24 half. But this is just a convention, and only as accurate as your training fulfills its assumptions. It is a good guide, but not perfect. UTF’s 3:19 full after a 1:35 half indicates that his marathon training was better than the convention would indicate by about 10 minutes.

If you hit a 1:24-1:26 half in May, a good marathon program from May to October should, if executed properly, get you there. The key is, clearly, the quality of the execution of the marathon training. But if you’re running around 7:00 miles for 13.1 in May, there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to go 26 at that pace in October.
 

TallerThanPedroia

Civilly Disobedient
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
20,377
Boston
Thanks, KW. One step at a time.

Speaking of the marathon, there's another side to the story of having too many BQers: too many charity runners with too few donors:

Like many other charity runners, Buzzell forgot that the tens of thousands of fund-raising “athons’’ nationwide mean donors suffer fatigue, too. And that $4,000 BAA minimum is $750 higher than last year.

Indeed, charity runners’ stories start to sound painfully familiar: They are running because they are passionate about the cause; they assumed friends and family would instantly click “donate’’; they discounted the difficulty of simultaneously working, going to grad school (which many are doing), training for what may be their first marathon, and planning the equivalent of several bar mitzvahs to raise big chunks of money at once.

And there is an additional stressor: Most charities take runners’ credit card numbers, meaning that if a runner does not raise the required amount, blisters may not be the race’s only lasting pain. The charities can - and often do - charge the runners’ cards.
Because the money is collected by individual charities, the BAA does not have statistics on the percent of runners who end up footing part of the bill. But the prospect of putting oneself on the line to raise money is so daunting that at least one team, Team Brigham, has runners for only 56 of the 75 charity bibs allotted.
This year more than 2,300 people will officially run the Boston Marathon for more than 130 charities; that is up from four charities with 500 runners in 1994, the first year the BAA formalized its charity marathon program. (From 1989 to 1993, the BAA worked with a few charities informally. The first was American Liver Foundation, in 1989, joined by Dana Farber in 1990.) Last year, official charity runners raised about $17 million.

And, of course, these amateur fund-raisers are not confined to the Boston Marathon. David Hessekiel, president of the Run Walk Ride Fund-raising Council in Rye, N.Y., estimates that last year there were about 50,000 “athons.’’
It'd be great to see more data on that. Is it a new problem? How has the total amount raised changed over time? Etc.
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
4,725
Houston, TX
This is why I'm not running Boston this year. I ran for Dana Farber in 2010 and 2011. In '10 I raised about $11,000. In '11 less than half that. Despite it being a great cause, I can easily see how hitting up the same people year after year for the same thing would lead to donor fatigue. And the Dana Farber minimum now is quite high - I think it's $4,000 this year, and if you don't raise it from outside sources, it's coming from your credit card. I can easily see not making the minimum.

But despite selfish people like myself chickening out on the fundraising, I know that Dana Farber does incredibly well, year after year. If I remember correctly, they have increased their fundraising every single year since their inception. My BIL has run every Boston for the past 20 years, all for Dana Farber, and has always exceeded his minimum. As far as I know, the bigger charities like Dana Farber and the Liver Foundation do very well every year. They are big and well-organized and managed. My sense is that Boston marathon fundraisers do pretty well because Boston is such an event. But I imagine it can be a lot harder to raise money running the Central City 10k to raise money for something less well-organized than Dana Farber.

And kudos to bosoxgirl for committing to Dana Farber and making the goal. Hope you have a great day out there.
 

MPG3AJG

lurker
Jul 18, 2005
3
To any SOSH Running Dogs taking part in theBoston Marathon Monday - Good Luck, all your hard work in training has paid off, enjoy the day!!

There will be a large group of folks (read: party) cheering on the runners at around the 8.1 mark in Natick. We will be just after the 8 mile marker/8 mile water station. We will be on your RIGHT side cheering you on. Give us a wave and a SOSH or something and we'll cheer you right back. Grwat Job and Good Luck!!

-Griff
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,573
Chelmsford, MA
To any SOSH Running Dogs taking part in theBoston Marathon Monday - Good Luck, all your hard work in training has paid off, enjoy the day!!

There will be a large group of folks (read: party) cheering on the runners at around the 8.1 mark in Natick. We will be just after the 8 mile marker/8 mile water station. We will be on your RIGHT side cheering you on. Give us a wave and a SOSH or something and we'll cheer you right back. Grwat Job and Good Luck!!

-Griff
Awesome, I'll be looking forward to seeing everyone. My number is 9388. My race plan is to run the race very slow because I only have about 27 miles of training in the last 6 weeks (yes that is correct). I'm going to take my run 5 min, walk 1 min strategy as far as I can go then lean heavier on walking. If I finish under 5 hrs I'll be happy.
 

sass a thon

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,265
Joe and Kate - Enjoy every second of your run on Monday. I know it means something special for both of you for different reasons. I'm so excited for both of you. Can't wait to hear all about it.
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,315
My Desk
I'm excited for Monday and I'm not even running. SoSH running dogs are well represented!
 

Joe Sixpack

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2002
6,146
Canton, MA
I was gaming this out on Daily Mile with UTF but it's kinda cramped writing in the comments there.

My goal is to BQ. I'll be 32 in May so I'm aiming for 3:05:00 for the forseeable future, which is 7:04min/mi. I haven't run any marathons since the 2007 Baystate Marathon and the 2008 Phoenix marathon (three months apart...not recommended) after deciding that actually running marathons takes too much recovery and wastes too much time, and that I should just improve my half marathon time until I get fast enough, and then stretch back out. And then of course I had several injuries that kept me from doing even that.

But anyway, last fall I did the BAA Half in 1:41:38. The next one is the Run to Remember in May, and I'm setting 1:35:00 as an outside goal. If I hit that, I'll go for 1:30:00 in the BAA Half in October. If I pull that off, it'd leave me a year to get a little faster (maybe aim for 1:25:00 at the following RtR) and then stretch out for the Baystate Marathon in October 2013.

I'm pretty set on using Baystate for my BQ attempt, whenever that happens to be, because I want a familiar course, and I don't think flying across the country to do Phoenix again is a viable option. And if I have to wait until 2014, so be it. Rushing cost me two years already, and if I hadn't I might be running Boston this month.

So anyway, I'm curious what other BQ'ers think, and how their experiences were. UTF says his HM PR is 1:35, and he did a 3:19 Marathon to BQ afterwards. That points to my needing a 1:26ish HM.
TTP,
This is exactly the approach that I decided to take. I'm 31, so I'd be shooting for the same qualifying time as you.

Constantly training for marathons was just taking too much time and energy, and I was getting hurt too much and it was really setting back my training. Since I was so far away from the goal (my last marathon was 4:10 in spring 2011) it just made a lot more sense to me to train for the half marathon until I can get something under 1:30 and then see if I can train for a qualifying full marathon.

According to this calculator: http://www.attackpoint.org/trainingpaces.jsp , something around 1:28 on the half should be sufficient to train for a 3:05 marathon (you enter a race time and then "calculate vdot" and check out the vdot equivalents on the right hand column).

I'm going to try for something in the mid-1:30s later this year (October) and go from there.
 

pv21feet

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
175
Medfield
For those of you hesitant to run on Monday, you don't have to. Baa will allow you to defer to 2013. Posting from my phone, so I don't have the link handy, but check their site
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
4,725
Houston, TX
Kate and Joe - hope you see this tonight. I am going to be spectating at mile 16, in front of Newton-Wellesley Hospital on the downhill slope. I'll look for your numbers and hope I catch you.
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,573
Chelmsford, MA
Kate good luck tomorrow! I have decided to exercise my option to defer until 2013. I had been very excited to get to the starting line for my first Boston. But I was even more excited when the BAA gave us the option to defer until 2013 because of the heat. Preparation for 2013 has already started by getting this knee right. 27 miles total of running over the last 6 weeks was not nearly enough in any condition, nevermind 85+ degrees.

Looking forward to hearing Kate's race report!
 

WinRemmerswaal

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2002
289
Kate good luck tomorrow! I have decided to exercise my option to defer until 2013. I had been very excited to get to the starting line for my first Boston. But I was even more excited when the BAA gave us the option to defer until 2013 because of the heat. Preparation for 2013 has already started by getting this knee right. 27 miles total of running over the last 6 weeks was not nearly enough in any condition, nevermind 85+ degrees.

Looking forward to hearing Kate's race report!
Was thinking about your situation when I heard these reports and thought this might be timely for you. You've had a great attitude about battling through injury but honestly you'll be so much better off if you can hit the starting line healthy. Good call, now time to heal up
 

pv21feet

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
175
Medfield
Sorry I won't see you tomorrow, Joe, but good decision. Plenty of time to be ready for next year. I need sleep- heading to the athletes village in a little over four hours from now...
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,573
Chelmsford, MA
Sorry I won't see you tomorrow, Joe, but good decision. Plenty of time to be ready for next year. I need sleep- heading to the athletes village in a little over four hours from now...
Joe, sorry I didnt get a chance to meet up with you today. I didnt get a chance to meet up with Kate either. I've been watching the race on TV this morning with my kids talking about the race. It was pumped to see the 10:40 start for Kate's wave!
 

bosoxgrl

big fan of Seamen
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2005
2,630
The deep end of the ocean
My race recap from DailyMile. I looked for those of you at the locations, but we must have missed each other. Absolutely amazing day!


Dreams really do come true.

I got to Boston on Saturday and met up with my daughter Meghan H. and my stepmother. My amazing Sunshine put together a dinner in my honor with my Boston friends, to include my dear friends Christina and Dan S. who flew up from Delaware just for this. So fun! They gave me gifts, inspiring letters, and lots of good wishes for the race.

Sunday, I headed to the expo. It was a madhouse. Got my bib, took some pictures, bought some gear. The city was just unbelievable. I’ve never actually been in Boston on Marathon Monday – but along the course. So much energy pouring out with all the runners in town. Everyone was just talking about the brutal weather we were going to face on Monday. Ensured I was hydrating all day. Was sad for a few days that I was so healthy for this race and Mother Nature was going to kill my plan. I decided to take a page out of the Michael N. playbook and just enjoy the ride and make sure I got to the finish line.

Sunday evening was the Dana Farber dinner. Inspirational stories of cancer fights were told, many tears shed. We were honored to have Uta Pippig, the 3 time Boston Marathon womens champion, as a guest speaker. Also, Jack Fitz, who was the 1976 winner and is the DF coach. He advised us of a calculator on the webpage that would tell us how fast we should run depending on our fitness and with the weather. I was now projected for a 5:20 marathon with an 11:40 pace. Ok, this is what I have to do.

Short walk from my hotel to the Boston common to get the buses to Hopkinton. I met a few women from Allentown PA and we walked together and swapped stories. We were on the last group of buses to leave - seemed like the 25 minute drive took an hour, but it was all good. We got off at the Athletes Village and it was just mass humanity - energy galore! Everyone was in good spirits despite the weather forecast. Made my way to the DF sanctuary and was so lucky to run into Justin T. and give a quick hug!. Got some food in me, took care of business, then headed for the starting corrals with a bottle of water. Then a wonderful moment happened - Steve S. and Ally S. came to find me! I was so happy to see them - we walked a bit together, then they turned to head where they needed to be. I was surprised I didn't get emotional in Hopkinton, but I was so geeked to be there, I just couldn't stop smiling! Got to my corral, a long walk to the starting mat and then we were off!

I tried to go slow coming out - but my legs were having none of it - they just wanted to move - I had to stop at Mile 3 for the PP to just pee, so that scews my 5K time - but I was in the low 10's for all of that. Still couldn't slow myself, I kept trying to. At Mile 5, I figured it out. I had grabbed water before a hill in Ashland and was walking up it as I was drinking and I thought "I'll walk the hills". So I ended running a Galloway plan for the entire race. When I was running, it was high 9's, low 10's, then I would walk up hills. It was the only way I could do it and survive the entire race. The heat was BRUTAL.

I got to Framingham at the 10K mark and my dear friend Ryan M. was there waiting for me! I was so happy to see him - he's who brought me to DM. He took a picture, gave some Swedish Fish, and sent me on my way.

The people along the course were just amazing. Water hoses being sprayed at us, the Red Sox score being updated, ice bags that we could grab ice from, they just were unbelievable. So much love out there for the runners.

I approached Wellesley College for the Wall of Screams - it was late in the race for them and they weren't quite so loud. I yelled at them "I can't hear you" and that got them going again. All the Kiss me signs, saw a few guys with them too, so I said, what the hell, and went over and kissed one of the guys on the cheek! Too fun!

I got into Wellesley Center and saw the stone wall. I watched 4 marathons from that very spot with my Dad. I lost it. I stopped, walked to the wall, and bawled my eyes out. Medical people came to check on me and I just explained how emotional this race for me. It was very cathartic to get those tears out of me. I took a breath and got back on my way.

Went pretty fast down the hill in Newton Lower Falls and now the start of the hills. . Just cruised slowly up the I-95 overpass and as soon as I started passing Newton-Wellesly Hospital, there they were! My daughter, my stepmother, my sister, my godson, and my niece! I stopped for a good 5 minutes talking and hugging them all.

Back on the course, I started to make the turn onto Beacon Street - my Dad lived just two blocks from there. Didn't lose my composure - just touched the picture of him on my shirt, kissed my fingers, pointed at the sky and said "Lets go Dad". The Newton Hills!

Ok, I walked most of them. Except one! That's right! I took that bitch Heartbreak DOWN!I I ran an 8:30 up that forsaken hill!! Of course, I was dead at the top of it :))

I made a pitstop at Mile 21 - I didn't want to have to hit the porta potty at the finish, so I figured I better try to pee. Got moving again and was running most of the rest of the course - the energy around Boston College was great - I hit Cleveland Circle and thought of all of the times I got drunk at the bars there and even said that to someone outside of Mary Ann's pub. Kept on plugging along - I was running all of this now, but it was slow - but that's ok, I was running. Saw the Citgo sign - I'm in Boston!!! Then I saw my friends - my incredible friends (the SoSH gang) - who were all there to see me! And they took my daughter under their wing - she made it over their way. I'll post the video they took, it's funny as hell! Got back on my way - one mile to go! Do I have a Kate Mile in me? Well, I had a little - it was a long, long day! Tried to put down the hammer but I still had too far to go. I walked that tiny little underpass before the turn to Hereford then starting running slowly up that small incline. I made the turn to Boylston Street.

Turned them on! The crowds, the cheers, the look I know I had of pure and absolute joy to see that finish line! My city, my Boston Marathon!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for your generosity of money, friendship, and advice to get me to this dream.

I'm coming back. But I'm going back with a BQ under my belt!!
 

Kremlin Watcher

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
4,725
Houston, TX
It's the Vermont City Marathon in Burlington VT on Memorial Day weekend.
So you've got over a month. Today you ran 9:31 miles for 21 miles. To get a 3:59:59, you need to run 9:09 miles. You are not that far away and you have over a month. 22 seconds a mile is doable in that time frame if you have the time to train. PM me if you want some specific advice on a short-term plan that could get you there.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Staff member
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,458
KPWT
It's the Vermont City Marathon in Burlington VT on Memorial Day weekend.

How big are you?

I weigh somewhere between 205-212 depending on how much I lift and how many deserts I eat. I swear that 7 lbs is worth at least 10-15 seconds of pace over a half marathon. I have only run two fulls, but I imagine the numbers are similar over the longer distance.

If you have the room (like I do) to drop just a few pounds. I would lay off the upper body lifting and watch the diet over the next month and keep to your current routine. That just might be the difference.
 

Jerrygarciaparra

My kid has superpowers
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2001
3,279
Montpelier, VT
Im 5-11 and weigh 165. I don't think it's my weight.

Honestly I am hopeful I can hang with the 9 minute/mile pace group and do it.

I am nervous ... and on top of work stress it's causing me to vent.

And the Sox aren't helping ....
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,315
My Desk
Jerry,

There's so much you can control and so much you can't control. I trained with people who trained very hard to achieve PRs in Boston. I'm talking 80 mile weeks for 10 weeks. 16 mile runs before work. Good runners and experienced marathoners who were busting there ass all winter for a PR in Boston.

Then Boston happened and it was 90 degrees. They finished in 4:58. In a better day, they'd have been more than an hour faster than that.

Train hard and run your race. 26 miles is a longtime and a very hard distance to have everything go your way during your first race. Take whatever your goal time is an add 15 minutes.
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,573
Chelmsford, MA
21 miles this morning in 3 hours 20 minutes.

I can feel that 4 hour marathon slipping away from me.
Jerry, you're in the middle of the toughest part of your training so you can't expect to crush 21 mile runs because you're not totally fresh. In the last couple weeks you'll feel stronger and stronger as you reduce your mileage. My first 20 miler was done in great conditions and I struggled big time to finish in 3 hrs (9/mi pace), 4 weeks later I ran 3:38 (8:18/mi pace). This was using the Hal Higdon novice plan with a max of 40 mpw. There are so many reasons you might not run as fast as you think you should in a training run. With a 20 miler you may not have had as much sleep as you need, may not have eaten great recently or you're just plain tired from all the miles. Feel confident your training is preparing you well to race as well as you can. Keep focused as you grind through these tough weeks because this mental strength is what is going to carry you those last few miles on race day.
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,315
My Desk
Also, Vermont is a difficult course. It is not "fast and flat" and could very well be hot. My garmin charted: Elevation Gain: 1,013 ft Elevation Loss: 1,134 ft
Enjoy your run. Do your best.
 

underhandtofirst

stud who hits bombs
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
1,573
Chelmsford, MA
Two years ago I was still smoking. Now I'm 43 and running my first marathon.

If I don't do it in May I might be able to crack it in the Fall.
You'll learn a ton from the training cycle and race. Have a sensible plan based on your training. Your tempo runs and long runs will give you a good indication of the pace you can handle. In the race you'll be better off if you go out too slow rather than too fast (easier said than done). Picking off people over the last 6 miles is a great energy boost at a time when your legs may not be super fresh.

Congrats on coming this far.
 

TallerThanPedroia

Civilly Disobedient
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
20,377
Boston
What they all said. There's no way to know what those last six miles are like until you've done them, so it's best to just focus on finishing. Though your 20-mile pace looks quite promising if you weren't going all out. My first 20-miler was something in the 11:00s for pace and I followed it with a 4:16 marathon.

So I stumbled across this yesterday:

The best fitness foods: What to eat before, during and after a workout

I stopped at the supermarket last night and actually found some tart cherry juice (hiding in the hippie section, naturally). I was worried I'd hate it, like I hate black cherry yogurt, but it is in fact tart and fairly mild. We'll see if it helps out my tight Achilles tendons.

The GI thing for pre-race food is interesting. Historically I've always run on an empty stomach but I've been trying different things lately.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Staff member
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,458
KPWT
La Jolla half marathon 1:52:02.

Very tough course with three big hills, but amazing scenery.