Anyway we can set it up on a fantasy league to mirror our draft and to have some scoring to it.MakMan44 said:
SoSH Real Fantasy Draft (2014 Edition): Sign Up and Discussion
- Thread starter Scoops Bolling
- Start date
Oh man I really want to do this and my name is on the OP list. I just didn't see this thread until now.
Is there a spot left for me?
Is there a spot left for me?
Awesome! Can't wait.
One thing that I think needs to be addressed up front this season is whether current MLB contracts matter. I read through last year's thread, and while most people seemed to assume that all of the players were free from their contractual obligations, a few people posted things like, "he's a nice player, but enjoy paying the back end of that deal." My assumption is that we're all starting with a clean slate contracts-wise and we shouldn't be penalizing, say, Cano for the money Seattle just through at him or someone who is slated to be a FA after the 2014 season for lack of long term team control.
In terms of AAA exceptions, the 2012 draft worked a lot better than the 2009 draft where everyone just started drafting prospects after a certain point because all that was left were players without upside. I like the idea that we all have to field teams that won't totally embarrass themselves in the major leagues this coming season. Running a bunch of AA guys out there should be a non-starter. Obviously, a few guys will go all Jose Fernandez on us, but that's better than Blake Swihart, 2014 starting MLB C I think.
There are a couple of fixes we could implement:
1) Small exceptions list, similar to last year. That worked just fine and is reasonable.
2) A level cutoff. Perhaps all AAA players should be eligible, but no one who ended 2013 in AA or below?
3) An age cutoff for minor leaguers. This would allow you access to journeymen on minor league deals if you want and some of the more advanced prospects, but that's it. This is harder because players don't follow uniform aging curves.
What do people think?
One thing that I think needs to be addressed up front this season is whether current MLB contracts matter. I read through last year's thread, and while most people seemed to assume that all of the players were free from their contractual obligations, a few people posted things like, "he's a nice player, but enjoy paying the back end of that deal." My assumption is that we're all starting with a clean slate contracts-wise and we shouldn't be penalizing, say, Cano for the money Seattle just through at him or someone who is slated to be a FA after the 2014 season for lack of long term team control.
In terms of AAA exceptions, the 2012 draft worked a lot better than the 2009 draft where everyone just started drafting prospects after a certain point because all that was left were players without upside. I like the idea that we all have to field teams that won't totally embarrass themselves in the major leagues this coming season. Running a bunch of AA guys out there should be a non-starter. Obviously, a few guys will go all Jose Fernandez on us, but that's better than Blake Swihart, 2014 starting MLB C I think.
There are a couple of fixes we could implement:
1) Small exceptions list, similar to last year. That worked just fine and is reasonable.
2) A level cutoff. Perhaps all AAA players should be eligible, but no one who ended 2013 in AA or below?
3) An age cutoff for minor leaguers. This would allow you access to journeymen on minor league deals if you want and some of the more advanced prospects, but that's it. This is harder because players don't follow uniform aging curves.
What do people think?
Glad to see I made the list! The Mad Crappers are coming to get you!!
I understand this isn't exactly fantasy baseball. I still suck at these things
I understand this isn't exactly fantasy baseball. I still suck at these things
Why Not Grebeck? said:
I'm pretty sure we were all just joking around with that.
Otherwise, my drafting Ryan Howard would look even worse.
Frank said:
Better than doing it in 2k14, which would probably make you go broke instead.
I think the idea Scoops (?) proposed is better than this--anyone with AA experience is eligible, and I would even be OK with guys with significant A+ experience being eligible. What's the problem with someone having Blake Swihart at C in 2014, exactly, aside from the fact that their team will suck?Why Not Grebeck? said:
I'm totally fine with this or whatever you guys decide. I'm new to this exercise and don't want to make any waves.
Opening it up to more minor league guys would make our teams feel more interesting and exciting. Instead of drafting a pile of Wasdins as your 4-5, you could pull starters from AA and crow about their projections in a couple of years. This also puts more differentiation between teams going for it now vs. building for the future.
The downside, I think, is that it removes another layer of realism from the draft - having to field a reasonable major league team in 2014. It's nearly impossible to project these teams as it is, and checking in with them during the year is harder when your starting 1B is hacking around for the Albuquerque Isotopes. That said, I think I'd have a lot more fun in the later rounds trying to find minor leaguers with upside than washed-up MLB talent to fill out the roster.
We should also decide about positioning rules so we don't have another Rollins debacle. Obviously since there's no real scoring it's kind of hard to penalize someone for moving a guy from one spot on the diamond to another...
Opening it up to more minor league guys would make our teams feel more interesting and exciting. Instead of drafting a pile of Wasdins as your 4-5, you could pull starters from AA and crow about their projections in a couple of years. This also puts more differentiation between teams going for it now vs. building for the future.
The downside, I think, is that it removes another layer of realism from the draft - having to field a reasonable major league team in 2014. It's nearly impossible to project these teams as it is, and checking in with them during the year is harder when your starting 1B is hacking around for the Albuquerque Isotopes. That said, I think I'd have a lot more fun in the later rounds trying to find minor leaguers with upside than washed-up MLB talent to fill out the roster.
We should also decide about positioning rules so we don't have another Rollins debacle. Obviously since there's no real scoring it's kind of hard to penalize someone for moving a guy from one spot on the diamond to another...
I'm not involved, but I think WNG's point is fair that people will just start drafting a ton of prospects rather than trying to fill out a real bench.
Maybe you could make everyone AA and up eligible but put a cap on the number of players without MLB experience that could be drafted? So if you have a 25-man roster, you can draft up to three (or whatever) guys without an MLB plate appearance/batter faced/fielding opportunity. Or you could expand it to 26-28 rounds with the idea of giving each team a prospect base to work with. I mean, it still gives teams some loopholes (hey, he had one September AB, not a prospect) but that might work out.
As for positions, that never seemed like a big deal to me and most people were reasonable about it (no one was putting Prince Fielder in center or Adam Dunn at catcher), but YMMV.
Edit: From last year, I think BigMike took the most guys from the exception list by taking 3. I think that makes a decent argument the number could be a bit higher if you wanted.
Maybe you could make everyone AA and up eligible but put a cap on the number of players without MLB experience that could be drafted? So if you have a 25-man roster, you can draft up to three (or whatever) guys without an MLB plate appearance/batter faced/fielding opportunity. Or you could expand it to 26-28 rounds with the idea of giving each team a prospect base to work with. I mean, it still gives teams some loopholes (hey, he had one September AB, not a prospect) but that might work out.
As for positions, that never seemed like a big deal to me and most people were reasonable about it (no one was putting Prince Fielder in center or Adam Dunn at catcher), but YMMV.
Edit: From last year, I think BigMike took the most guys from the exception list by taking 3. I think that makes a decent argument the number could be a bit higher if you wanted.
Fishercat said:
Yeah 2 out of 3 really worked out as they already contributed 100+ innings, and still look like potential staff Aces moving forward. Number 3 went the other way and will probably never make it.. I also drafted I think 5 other starters so I wouldn't have needed to depend on any of them
Galway Sox Fan said:
I maintain this chart:
http://sumnerhayes.com/static/fantasy/SOSH%20RealFantasy%202013.html
It's not updated in real time, but it's rarely more than a couple of picks out of date. If you scroll down it sorts the players in various manners.
It's your responsibility to know the players available (which is everyone who played in MLB the prior year, plus a few ml players and the like decided on ahead of time).
Galway Sox Fan said:
That would defeat the purpose: the whole idea is to pick players based on what you think their real value is, rather than to conform to a fantasy scoring system, and to debate the value of the teams at the end based on what you think their real performance would be rather than just tallying up some arbitrary stats. It's a means to spur discussion about real MLB players, not a win-or-lose game.
There are plenty of fantasy leagues out there if you want that sort of thing--for a SOSH fantasy league, check the fantasy forum.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/44137-the-not-fantasy-draft-yet-still-a-fantasy-full/ has the original idea post:
Obviously some things have changed since then, but that was how it started.
Obviously some things have changed since then, but that was how it started.
A prospect limit isn't a bad idea. If we're adding 2-3 rounds, maybe allow a maximum of 4 players without MLB experience?Fishercat said:
This is a point I'd be interesting in hearing some other opinions on. Adding a salary cap factor (maybe the average MLB payroll in 2013?) would add an interesting dynamic, although we'd probably need every team to track their own and pull the data from Cot's (maybe include it in the selection post).Why Not Grebeck? said:
I agree that salaries would add an interesting dynamic, but I'm not sure it's needed. I'd rather just pick whoever I can.
I don't like the idea of salaries. Seems like that would skew things in favor of pre-arb guys, plus it could get pretty complicated to keep track of (are we starting things before arbitration awards are announced? We'd have to estimate, which would be tough). And in a draft format it would be interesting but really tough to plan for and I think someone who had money left at the end could clean up on a lot of guys with large contracts.
I think it's better for us to just do what Charles O. Finley had proposed:
Make them all free agents, and let the markets sort themselves out.
Just because the Yankees gave Rodriguez an insane contract doesn't mean whoever drafts him here would/would have to given the various other choices.
Make them all free agents, and let the markets sort themselves out.
Just because the Yankees gave Rodriguez an insane contract doesn't mean whoever drafts him here would/would have to given the various other choices.
I would be OK with a limit on guys with no experience above A+ or AA but it doesn't make too much sense to me to have MLB-ready guys like Oscar Taveras (or Wil Myers heading into last year) with a lot of AAA experience but no MLB experience count towards it.
I think you should be able to draft whoever you want, but it's all on the understanding that you're building an Opening Day 25 man roster and not adding guys you can stash away for more season. If you draft that high upside A ball prospect to be your backup shortstop, you're going to have to explain how getting immediately thrown into the MLB level and getting irregular playing time is not going to totally fuck up that kids career, for example.
One of the dumb things about the draft last year IMO was looking through prospect lists looking for a guy who had, like, five at bats at the MLB level and going for that guy instead of a perfectly equal alternative prospect. Getting rid of that line would make the draft better.
One of the dumb things about the draft last year IMO was looking through prospect lists looking for a guy who had, like, five at bats at the MLB level and going for that guy instead of a perfectly equal alternative prospect. Getting rid of that line would make the draft better.
I'd greatly prefer limiting the draft to players that have a legit chance at contributing at the major league level out of spring training. As I understand the endeavor, we are drafting players for the 2014 MLB season. We aren't drafting for 2014 and for the future.
We still need two more GMs, and preferably a couple extra folks for the Taxi Squad for the inevitable drop-outs.
I'm highly against the "everyone is available" idea. The last thing we need is for the final rounds to consist of pick after pick of A ball starters ("sure he only has 40 IP in A-ball, but he can work as a mop up reliever this year with that 100 mph fastball!") and name prospects who have no business being picked.
I'm highly against the "everyone is available" idea. The last thing we need is for the final rounds to consist of pick after pick of A ball starters ("sure he only has 40 IP in A-ball, but he can work as a mop up reliever this year with that 100 mph fastball!") and name prospects who have no business being picked.
I would vote for AA being the limit. (As in, guys must have at least some AA experience to be drafted). I don't want to be penalized for a team holding someone like Wil Myers in the minors for control reasons when it's clear that he could have started the year in MLB if the team wanted to. But you should be prepared to defend your selection if you do pick a guy with no MLB time.
Just my two cents, I'll go with whatever.
Just my two cents, I'll go with whatever.
I agree with Farvin, Mak and Scoops. If were building more of a now-centric team, guys below AAA should be only picked sparingly.
What if we made the rules for who can be drafted as follows:
- Anyone who finished 2013 season in MLB
- Anyone who finished 2013 season in AAA
- Anyone who finished 2013 season in AA who is on their team's Baseball America 2014 Top 10 Prospects list
That would keep the AA pool small, but would allow people to draft the elite prospects who could conceivably make the jump to the MLB and not totally embarrass themselves. Do people think that is too many minor leaguers? Too few?
I would also put forward that if a player doesn't have a certain number of at-bats at a position at their highest level (20?) you shouldn't be penciling them in to play that position on your team.
- Anyone who finished 2013 season in MLB
- Anyone who finished 2013 season in AAA
- Anyone who finished 2013 season in AA who is on their team's Baseball America 2014 Top 10 Prospects list
That would keep the AA pool small, but would allow people to draft the elite prospects who could conceivably make the jump to the MLB and not totally embarrass themselves. Do people think that is too many minor leaguers? Too few?
I would also put forward that if a player doesn't have a certain number of at-bats at a position at their highest level (20?) you shouldn't be penciling them in to play that position on your team.
Nah, that last one is silly. We should just ridicule the shit out of anyone who tries to pull that move.
Hard and fast positional restriction also seems unnecessary--I'm fine with people getting Jimmy Rollins to play 2B or whatever the controversy was over last year. That led to an interesting discussion, as will people drafting guys with no experience above AA as their opening day starters.
Yeah since there's no scoring or "winning" any strict rule would be kind of silly. If I want the corpse of Teddy Ballgame at first, I'll fucking do it.
So, given we can't seem to reach 30 GMs, what is it that people want to do? Should we continue sitting in a holding pattern waiting for others to sign up? Alternatives?
