Can you point to any examples of this phenomenon? (Or organizations, reputable baseball people, anyone who share this "thinking"?)Curll said:
SOSH Real Fantasy Draft 2014: Draft Order, Rules, and Draft Thread
- Thread starter Scoops Bolling
- Start date
As Mak says, its not an argument. It's what this exercise is about. Just the same as it was in the NFL Real Fantasy Draft, or the NHL one, or the NBA one. Or this same exercise last year.Galway Sox Fan said:
Moran was eligible.
He was a top 10 draft pick this season.
He will get at bats and playing time on the team he was picked on.
He will develop and he will get contribute over the 4 years that these teams were picked for.
He was a top 10 draft pick this season.
He will get at bats and playing time on the team he was picked on.
He will develop and he will get contribute over the 4 years that these teams were picked for.
Yup, he was eligible. Scoops didn't say to remove the pick and pick again, he just railed on the pick and is justified in doing so.
It makes me shake my head as well. Basically putting him right in MLB is going for crazy odds that he starts producing at that level as one of the 25 members of a team.
Someone can think that's a good idea but it's really not, even if that pick hits it big.
A Texas Hold Em analogy: going all in and needing a runner/runner straight while starting with 2/5 unsuited to take down trip aces and having it happen does not make it the right play. It makes one lucky on that one hand and should they play the game that way all night long they will almost always walk away with empty pockets.
Or more simply, Im pretty sure I want to play poker with quite a few of you.
It makes me shake my head as well. Basically putting him right in MLB is going for crazy odds that he starts producing at that level as one of the 25 members of a team.
Someone can think that's a good idea but it's really not, even if that pick hits it big.
A Texas Hold Em analogy: going all in and needing a runner/runner straight while starting with 2/5 unsuited to take down trip aces and having it happen does not make it the right play. It makes one lucky on that one hand and should they play the game that way all night long they will almost always walk away with empty pockets.
Or more simply, Im pretty sure I want to play poker with quite a few of you.
Yeah, this is a fair point, but it seems like you're also banking on him becoming a starting-caliber player for you somewhere down the line. I'd say you're harming his development by making him a part-timer for the next few years. Service time concerns definitely play some role, but there are important reasons beyond that why basically all prospects spend a significant amount of time in the minors. Hence, I'd hesitate to give you much credit for whatever Moran becomes in real life with the benefit of a normal developmental path.Curll said:
Not trying to stir up more shit in this debate, but: how are we tracking the development of our teams? I had assumed we would be looking at their performances in the real world and then saying things like, "Hey, my infield did pretty well, they had X.X WAR this season, but man, my relievers were awful." In other words, we would be using the real life performances of our players to see how our teams did.
If we are doing it this way, then how can we not get credit for younger players/prospects and what they do? I understand Scoops' argument here, that it would be way too early to have some of these young 'uns up on a major league roster. But how would we be able to calculate this development stunting? Or is it just a question of the spirit of the exercise?
If we are doing it this way, then how can we not get credit for younger players/prospects and what they do? I understand Scoops' argument here, that it would be way too early to have some of these young 'uns up on a major league roster. But how would we be able to calculate this development stunting? Or is it just a question of the spirit of the exercise?
Leskanic's_Thread said:
Yeah, that was the answer I got last thread, is that basically we evaluate things however we want to evaluate them.
While most of us just popped out a simple WAR examination, and the fact that we're doing this in back-to-back years (as opposed to the original one's several-year gap) kind of makes it difficult to examine things long-term (although there's nothing stopping anyone from going back and examining their team from last year going into the future as well, what I gathered is that it's pretty much up to you how you evaluate your team.
Teams will be able to spin their argument however they want, but I would say that other GMs will also be entitled to their opinions in evaluating your team...so if you pick someone who's clearly not ready, then claim they'd probably be about replacement level, I can disagree and say I'm evaluating your team with the opinion that the guy would probably be the least valuable player in baseball.Leskanic's_Thread said:
Overall, there's an element of subjectivity, but if we like, we can do what the football draft did and divide into "divisions" and then let teams vote on the top and bottom teams.
Just back home, finally. I hate stuff like that.
I will work on getting my picks up tomorrow. I first need to figure out how many I'm behind.
Do I just chime in once I have them ready to go?
I will work on getting my picks up tomorrow. I first need to figure out how many I'm behind.
Do I just chime in once I have them ready to go?
Cool. I never got around to making that list, obviously lol. Was just way too busy helping the wife and her family with funeral arrangements, keeping my daughter busy, etc etc. We didn't get back until like 6pm tonight, so I had to miss the first game But, looking at the box score, I'm not convinced that's a terrible thing. We got beat by a juicer, go figure.
But, looking at the box score, I'm not convinced that's a terrible thing. We got beat by a juicer, go figure. 
*hug*Jaylach said:Cool. I never got around to making that list, obviously lol. Was just way too busy helping the wife and her family with funeral arrangements, keeping my daughter busy, etc etc. We didn't get back until like 6pm tonight, so I had to miss the first game
OK, if I'm reading the chart right this old man is still available. He's on the bench now in the bigs, so he'll adapt nicely on my team as a bench OF, and quality pinch runner late in games.
Head Hunters select OF Ichiro Suzuki.
I guess this late in the draft I should start thinking of lineups, I'll put one out soon.
I'll also PM the next owner
Head Hunters select OF Ichiro Suzuki.
I guess this late in the draft I should start thinking of lineups, I'll put one out soon.
I'll also PM the next owner
I had considered him with my last pick, but decided I needed a bit more flexibility.
If I had managed to pick Darvish and Iwakuma when they were available, I probably would have ended up drafting Koji and Ichiro before they were taken, and had a Japan All-Stars team.
If I had managed to pick Darvish and Iwakuma when they were available, I probably would have ended up drafting Koji and Ichiro before they were taken, and had a Japan All-Stars team.
Cliff Pennington, BP4
If I had been paying more attention when I picked Brendan Ryan I would have noticed that this guy is better both defensively and offensively and he's younger and he's not now on the disabled list. In a world where defense is given it's proper place Pennington would be seen as an average starter. Instead he's a pretty good util.
If I had been paying more attention when I picked Brendan Ryan I would have noticed that this guy is better both defensively and offensively and he's younger and he's not now on the disabled list. In a world where defense is given it's proper place Pennington would be seen as an average starter. Instead he's a pretty good util.
I am here and I hate you. This is the guy I wanted. Would have great to split time and be a defensive replacement. Pick up shortly.
Scoops Bolling said:
OK, that makes sense. Sounds like these "functional ML prospect" versus "stunted-development youth" will get to rage on for however long people are up for talking about their teams. Which is all part of the fun!
edit: And I like the idea of divisions. Maybe it should be based on the draft positions, as that's where the most jostling tends to happen.
And I almost grabbed Pennington as my replacement/future backup SS. If he had a regular starting gig, I would have taken him over Hechavarria.
Ryan isn't going to stay hurt all season long so picking Cliff just to slot him for Ryan is sort of silly.PrometheusWakefield said:
I can sort of by the depth argument, as we're not going to be picking up any new guys year to year but in real life I wouldn't want to waste two rosters spots on basically the same guy.
My shortstop is unproven and I was going to take Pennington as an alternative. Instead I will go even younger as my utility infielder.
Jose Ramirez, BP4
Ramirez got a cup of coffee at the end of last year at 20 years old. He is a little guy who gets a lot of hits with very few walks or strikeouts. Ramirez has good speed, 38 stolen bases, but is still learning how to use it, 16 caught stealing. He has defensive versatility with 50 games at both short and second last year.
PM sent
Jose Ramirez, BP4
Ramirez got a cup of coffee at the end of last year at 20 years old. He is a little guy who gets a lot of hits with very few walks or strikeouts. Ramirez has good speed, 38 stolen bases, but is still learning how to use it, 16 caught stealing. He has defensive versatility with 50 games at both short and second last year.
PM sent
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Daniel Webb, RP5
Webb is the prototypical hard throwing reliever. Averages 96 with the fastball and mixes in the slider 30% of the time. Webb will add some depth to my bullpen and may take over the closer role in upcoming years.
PM sent
Webb is the prototypical hard throwing reliever. Averages 96 with the fastball and mixes in the slider 30% of the time. Webb will add some depth to my bullpen and may take over the closer role in upcoming years.
PM sent
Eric Chavez, BP5
Not a guy who can get you full time performance any more but he was pretty good when on the field over the past 2 years and he probably still has another year or two left in the tank. A good LH bat off the bench who can back up at third, first and left field.
PM sent
Not a guy who can get you full time performance any more but he was pretty good when on the field over the past 2 years and he probably still has another year or two left in the tank. A good LH bat off the bench who can back up at third, first and left field.
PM sent
Chavez is an excellent pick at this point, I was thinking of getting him for one of my depth slots. A guy who can hit RHP like he can and hold his own in the field is a valuable commodity.
Chavez is not playing LF. It's just not happening. I like that pick better than the Pennington one but unless you're running a 5 man bench, you're left without a back up catcher, which is an...interesting choice.
EDIT: I feel that I should note that both guys are good picks, especially this late. My arguments lie with things I've pointed out besides the picks themselves. I'm not trying to blindly bash your picks.
EDIT: I feel that I should note that both guys are good picks, especially this late. My arguments lie with things I've pointed out besides the picks themselves. I'm not trying to blindly bash your picks.
Truth of the matter is that if I had to do it over again I wouldn't make the Brendan Ryan pick and then the rest would all make sense.
Chavez was an example of a player I found too good to pass up even though he's not a great fit for my team needs. I'm thinking ahead to my OOTP season and I want that bat off the bench.
Chavez was an example of a player I found too good to pass up even though he's not a great fit for my team needs. I'm thinking ahead to my OOTP season and I want that bat off the bench.
Up at Bradley getting ready to board so I'll make it brief . I'll take SP Matt Barnes if he is still available. Does he get pushed to the pen automatically as I already have five starters? Hell he may end up there for me anyway .
Can someone bold and PM for me?
Can someone bold and PM for me?
StuckOnYouk said:
Done and done. Sneaky pick there. I'm not saying i would have grabbed him, but I didn't think he was eligible.
Nate Karns, RP
Has been lights out when healthy, with filthy minor league numbers over the last couple years and nice scouting reports to match (snuck onto Keith Law's top 100 last year). I think he can be an effective bullpen arm right out of the chute, and will have a chance to compete for a starting job next year.
PM sent
Just a quick note on the chart.
Bastardo has been put in as a bench player not a picther
Also I will be around for the next hour or so and will be then be heading to bed.
I have one guy in mind now and dont have time to research more until tomorrow.
I can send this player on to a proxy if they want to keep it moving.
Bastardo has been put in as a bench player not a picther
Also I will be around for the next hour or so and will be then be heading to bed.
I have one guy in mind now and dont have time to research more until tomorrow.
I can send this player on to a proxy if they want to keep it moving.
Galway Sox Fan selects Bergermeister Meisterberger... No, Boxed Bradberger... Shit that's not it either...
He's taking Brad Boxberger, RP with onion rings and a large orange drink.
He's taking Brad Boxberger, RP with onion rings and a large orange drink.
I guess I need a backup catcher who A) Has hips and B) Doesn't have a shoulder problem. I had to go to a dark, dark place to find one... The Yankees organization. This kid is blocked every which way from the big leagues but from the scouting reports he is a plus defender and totally destroys left-handed pitching. Sounds good to me.
The Wonderbeards select J.R. Murphy, BP
I hate that he's a Yankee, but he actually projects to be a pretty good major leaguer. I'll take it this late in the draft.
The Wonderbeards select J.R. Murphy, BP
I hate that he's a Yankee, but he actually projects to be a pretty good major leaguer. I'll take it this late in the draft.