Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

Marciano490

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Yeah, I'm really getting sick of Lampley.  From his malapropisms and horrible attempts to be eloquent - plus the woman beating - and now their incessant need to compare every great fighter to every other great fighter in their stable (look at him, he's like GGG, look at GGG, he's like Crawford, etc).
 
I agree GGG didn't take any risks, but like I said before the fight, Lemieux is just so damn easy to hit, why should he?  I've never seen a fighter who just ate jabs like that?  I get not wanting to parry and leave himself open for hooks, but he should've at least positioned his gloves forward or tried slipping.
 

ElUno20

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Ggg got a slob job last night for a basic sparring session esque performance. The same dominant winning performance hbo routinely shitted on floyd for while he was on their network filling their pockets.

Like you guys, I've avoided the fight game but my bro gave me a new perspective on it. It truly is just Lampley spitting hot fire hate at everyone, so if you watch it for comedy it can be entertaining.

Another thing that stood out to me last night is just how bad Max has gotten at his job. When interviewing the losing fighter, he goes out of his way to shit on them and frame questions to praise the winner. To me, that adds nothing to the broadcast. If the goal is to hype up the winner, I'd prefer just skipping the interview and using that extra time for a longer interview with the winning fighter.
 

Drocca

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Max used to be fantastic, but he's 100% company man now and does his job of building up their fighters and the drama as opposed to giving some interesting analysis of the fight. That said, if he's calling an undercard on regular HBO, where there isn't a line he's got to sell, he's still very good.
 

Marciano490

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Agreed Max is eloquent and loves the sport snd history. Id love to see him push back more against people like Jones or Ward who have fought. But now they've seemed to have coopted Max just to build up middling fighters in light of his credentials as a Sugar-lite historian.

Man, I really do hate Lampley though. Domestic violence aside, just so egotistical and out of his depth.
 

ElUno20

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Mr. Bud Crawford fights tonight with buzz that he's on a short list for Pacquiao's last fight.

Bob likes to keep the money in house so i definitely buy it.
 

ElUno20

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Marciano490 said:
Hahaha does anyone think GGG is the baddest man on the planet?
I'm guessing that's what scared away all the ppv buyers? Everyone roasted Canelo and Cotto for saying he'll have to come down to 155 but at the end of the day, they put asses in front of ppv seats. My guess is he'll come in at any weight they want after his dismal ppv numbers.

Complete mismatch on hbo last night. Jean had nothing for Crawford. So it looks like Crawford v Pacquiao at 140, April 9th. I'm not sure how i feel about this fight yet. My first reaction was Crawford's size and jab would be too much for Manny. But Crawford does get hit and Manny can crack. It might be a fun fight.


Btw, i enjoyed the hbo crew's debate on who built the pyramids and invented the iPhone, GGG or Crawford?
 

Marciano490

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I wasn't super impressed by Bud, but share your feelings on the Pacquiao matchup; Crawford might just be a bit too big and long for him.  I don't like his jab at all from the southpaw stance; he kinda chickwings it, which is odd for someone with his pedigree.  I also thought he looked really, really inaccurate last night.  Jean isn't a tremendous defensive fighter nor was his movement that exceptional, but it seemed like Crawford was badly missing with a lot of his punches.  His defense was also a bit suspect.  That's not to say he's not a top fighter, but I don't see him as a p4p guy yet, and I'm not sure he has the skills to beat Manny if the size advantage isn't determinative.
 
Really looking forward to seeing Lomanchenko fight soon.  That guy is much watch for me.
 

WayBackVazquez

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ElUno20 said:
I'm guessing that's what scared away all the ppv buyers? Everyone roasted Canelo and Cotto for saying he'll have to come down to 155 but at the end of the day, they put asses in front of ppv seats. My guess is he'll come in at any weight they want after his dismal ppv numbers.
 
This kind of schadenfreude from purported fight fans baffles me. Do you root for GGG to have bad PPV numbers because you think he's a bad person, or because you enjoy people refusing to fight him?
 
Canelo saying Golovkin needs to come down to fight him at 155 is an absolute joke, since he routinely rehydrates to over 170. The fact that he's still making weight excuses for being taken apart by Floyd blows my mind. I hope Cotto rips his head off.
 

Marciano490

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WayBackVazquez said:
 
This kind of schadenfreude from purported fight fans baffles me. Do you root for GGG to have bad PPV numbers because you think he's a bad person, or because you enjoy people refusing to fight him?
 
Canelo saying Golovkin needs to come down to fight him at 155 is an absolute joke, since he routinely rehydrates to over 170. The fact that he's still making weight excuses for being taken apart by Floyd blows my mind. I hope Cotto rips his head off.
 
I'm with you here.  I don't think any boxing fan should root for low PPV numbers from any fighter; it's good for the sport to have stars/popular fighters and bad when PPV numbers come in low.  Shit, it was bad when Floyd's last fight bombed.  I'd love to watch an HBO fight and not have to hear about GGG, but I don't hold that against him personally.  He fights all comers and beats whoever's in front of him.  I don't think he's an all-timer, or even one of the ten best or most entertaining guys out there now, but it's hard to take exception with him.
 
Hell, I even think he did what he should've done the last fight.  The jab worked and he stuck with it.  Boxing's a dangerous fight and he's under no obligation to put himself at risk against a huge puncher if he can get the job done with just the jab.  It's like criticizing a pitcher for not throwing over the heart of the plate when the opposing lineup is swinging at pitches in the dirt.
 
As for Canelo, he lost to Floyd because he hasn't improved in 5 years.  He peaked young, and is still a great fighter, but he has no defense and no ability to adjust in the ring when he can't impose his size and will on someone.  I think reborn Cotto takes him apart, but both are too small for GGG right now.  I'd like to see Froch or Ward get in with GGG eventually.
 

ElUno20

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WayBackVazquez said:
 
This kind of schadenfreude from purported fight fans baffles me. Do you root for GGG to have bad PPV numbers because you think he's a bad person, or because you enjoy people refusing to fight him?
 
Canelo saying Golovkin needs to come down to fight him at 155 is an absolute joke, since he routinely rehydrates to over 170. The fact that he's still making weight excuses for being taken apart by Floyd blows my mind. I hope Cotto rips his head off.
I don't root for or against anyone getting their money, in fact, I'm the last person HBO has to worry about because I'll buy any boxing.

I probably didn't spell it out well but here is what i meant. We all want to see GGG vs Cotto or Canelo, you know who doesn't? Cotto or Canelo. So those low numbers actually are a good thing because now their people know they can get GGG down to 155 and make a fight happen. K2 promotions loses leverage because they are now clearly the B side. So we dont have to go through the A side B side crap GGGs people pulled with Ward over the weight. It gets us one step closer.

And as much as it will suck, GGG should kill himself to do it. There is nothing, name and star wise (which is what hbo/k2 promotions want) for him at 160. He'd essentially be going the Hopkins route if he stayed at 160 and racking up a long list of title defenses. 155 will be tough but I'd still favor him against canelo or cotto. And that's how you really become a ppv star, you have to take the torch from someone with more fame than you.
 

Marciano490

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There's no reason GGG can't get down to 155.  He's not Bradley lean; there's weight there to play with.  WBV is right though; he'd walk into the ring north of 170 and still be too big for Canelo or Cotto, and I don't think Cotto wants him at any weight.  Cotto's had a rebirth, no doubt, but all this is gravy in his career and I don't think he's going to do anything to put himself in harms way or face someone who could damage him a la Margarito at this point.  He's happy to walk away and isn't nearly as concerned with his legacy as Canelo.
 

ElUno20

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Very true. But i think Canelo will fight him at a catch weight. Only problem is i favor Cotto to beat Canelo. But who knows
 

Marciano490

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Yeah, I think Cotto beats Canelo, too.  Pretty easily, in fact, and that takes the wind out of the Canelo-GGG fight.  GGG is going to have to move up in weight, likely.  I'd sit first row to watch him fight Kovalev.
 

ElUno20

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Marciano490 said:
Yeah, I think Cotto beats Canelo, too.  Pretty easily, in fact, and that takes the wind out of the Canelo-GGG fight.  GGG is going to have to move up in weight, likely.  I'd sit first row to watch him fight Kovalev.
Well sir, word from Abel Sanchez himself was GGG routinely put it on Kovalev when they were both under the same camp.
 

BGrif21125

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Marciano490 said:
 
I don't think any boxing fan should root for low PPV numbers from any fighter; it's good for the sport to have stars/popular fighters and bad when PPV numbers come in low.  Shit, it was bad when Floyd's last fight bombed.
I don't root against any "fighter's" PPV numbers, but I think any boxing fan should absolutely root against the PPV numbers of "fights" that are not PPV worthy.

I like Golovkin, but Golovkin-Lemieux was not a PPV-worthy fight (I didn't order it). That was an HBO WCB-level card with a $60 PPV price tag. If that fight had done 300-400K buys, you'd never see Golovkin on non-PPV again except for a stay busy fight with even more lopsided odds than the Lemieux fight had.

Mayweather-Berto was an embarrassment at $75 and it deserved terrible PPV numbers.
 

Marciano490

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ElUno20 said:
Well sir, word from Abel Sanchez himself was GGG routinely put it on Kovalev when they were both under the same camp.
Do you believe that any more than I do?
 

ElUno20

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Marciano490 said:
Do you believe that any more than I do?
I dont know. It comes from an interview with Abel on the ropes podcast. He seemed very honest. Abel isn't one of those trainers who likes to blow smoke up people's ass to promote a fighter, so i kind of do.

He also held back in getting into specifics of why he let Kovalev with a type of discretion that made the other accounts seemed truthful.
 

Marciano490

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Best fighter in the world goes tonight on HBO free, and Bradley is really turning into one of my favorites, too. The bout with Rios should be a barnburner while it lasts.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Woot! Looking forward a great double-header tonight.

No one is looking forward to Bradley v Manny III, but apparently that's what Bradley wants. He should have no problem with Rios.

But I'm really looking forward to HT fighting again in the undercard. Don't know much about the opponent though.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Man, HT is putting on a CLINIC. Absolute picture perfect form, amazing balance, super reflex.

Plus, a hearty fuck you to Koasicha for wearing a headband with a Japanese imperial rising sun emblem. That's like seeing a swastika arm band to Koreans.
 
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SeoulSoxFan

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And it is a series of biting body blows that brings Koasicha down & KO'd for the first time in his career.

There was a body shot about minute before the knock-out where you can see Koasicha just gasp and clinch HT. You could tell it was about to be over. Lomachenko smartly goes back and just keeps throwing heavy bombs right at the abdomen.

HT has so many moves and combinations it's pretty incredible. He displays more control over the ring over anyone since PBF's peak.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Also, I'm looking forward to Klitchko absolutely destroying and embarrasing Tyson Fury. That'll be fun to see.

Plus, rooting hard for Cotto vs. Canelo.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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I really love Bradley. Tons of heart and always improving.
You have to respect the hell out of Bradley. I think he would have been more popular if he didn't win that decision against Manny.

What about Teddy Atlas in the corner raving about being firemen? Holy shit. It's been a long time since I've seen TA go off like that. And his fighter is pretty much pitching a perfect game!

Bradley v Manny may be worth it just for Atlas v Roach matchup.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Meanwhile, Rios corner's coaching consists of "what the fuck are you doing Brandon!" "This is not what we trained for Brandon!".

It's like watching BB coach against Rich Kotite.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Holy shit. I did not expect Bradley to knock out Rios.

Then again, Rios looked fat and slow and generally not really getting any punches off.
 

ElUno20

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It's a bit unfair to get on garcia for his training during the fight. The plan for rios is always the same, bring pressure and cut the ring off. He did both but he lacked any energy and pop on his punches. There was nothing Garcia could have told him because he executed ok. He was in range all night. Blowing up to 170 killed him tonight. Part of this shit is on arum though, he looked fucking terrific in January. Fastest he's looked in years and they cant get an action fighter a fight on tv for 10 months? When Haymon can sneeze and get a nobody a main event on cable. Seriously Top Rank?


I dont want to see manny bradley again. Bradley just isnt good enough to beat Manny.
 

ElUno2001

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Huge, UGE!, fight. Very excited but with the way A sides have been dominating this year with one sided shut outs, I'm crossing my fingers we get a decent fight.

Cotto is around a 3-1 favorite right now.
 

luckiestman

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Huge, UGE!, fight. Very excited but with the way A sides have been dominating this year with one sided shut outs, I'm crossing my fingers we get a decent fight.

Cotto is around a 3-1 favorite right now.

That doesn't seem right

Edit: I think you just meant to type Canelo is 3-1 favorite.
 

ElUno2001

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That pbc fight from last night guys, spend 10 minutes and give it a watch. Pbc on spike now has put up possibly 3 of the top 10 fights of the year
 

ElUno20

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Marc/Griff/Seoul/others, i'm just an idiot fan who knows nothing about boxing but here's my view on Cotto-Canelo, I'd love to hear other views because you guys always bring it. As much as Cotto has annoyed me, my problems with Canelo in this fight are:

-To me the one thing he does great is combination punching. He has surprisingly fast hands and does an excellent job of mixing up body and head punches in his combinations. But despite his billing as murderer, he's not truly a come forward guy, he relies a lot on his opponent's jab and countering off it to get going. I don't see Freddie/Cotto falling into this trap. I expect them to probably lead with left hooks to keep him off balanced.

-Canelo is also really slow. He's almost always flat footed and against guys who can box, he struggles to cut the ring off and gets more into the "following" mode as opposed to trying to cut the ring off and walking guys down. Cotto won't be in range like Angulo or come to him like Kirkland to make it easy for him.

-So in a fight with a 10 years age gap, the common perception would be maybe take the old guy into deeper waters and hope he tires out. That would break down some of the obstacles of speed and distance he'll face. Except here it's Canelo who tends to gas out in fights and Cotto's strength and condition coach, Gavin MacMillan, has him looking like a 20 year old again. Btw, I hope the trends continues that fighters look to advances in strength and conditioning to prepare physically for fights. Athletes in other sports are always looking for the cutting edge workout to push themselves. Yes, drill the 100000000 boxing hours down in the gym but your workout can be separate. But that's besides the point.

So yeah, that's how I feel about next week. I want Canelo to win because I think it would probably be better for the sport with Cotto on his way out and likely to take some easy non-important fights to close out his Roc Nation deal but I just can't see it. I'm having a hard time seeing paths to victories for Canelo that don't involve Freddie and Cotto having a complete failure in preparation and ring IQ.
 

Marciano490

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Yeah. Canelo doesn't jab. Canelo doesn't slip. Canelo doesn't move his head or do much defensively at all. He's a good fighter, but he's no better than he was 3 years ago. I think I once compared him to a 20 year old prospect who hits .290 with 20 homers his rookie year and gets everyone excited, but 5 years later is still putting up the same numbers.

Solid guy, not the next DLH or JCC.
 

Marciano490

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I'm betting on Cotto so long as nothing comes out of his camp in the next few days. I don't think it's a lock or anything, but boxing's one sport where the public is woefully underinformed, people go off reputations and marketing and people bet their national loyalties more than the fighters. Boxing odds don't really mean shit to me.
 

ElUno2001

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Speaking to such, Freddie was delighted about the odds and bragged about laying cash down on Cotto during the face off.
 

Marciano490

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Yeah, shit, I think Manny - Marquez 3 maybe, the one before Manny got ktfo, had Marquez as a 5-1 underdog. I laid some money on Marquez there, not because I thought he'd win (and he didn't, though I actually had him winning that fight, biasedly perhaps), but because the odds were bonkers for anyone who actually watched their careers or their prior battles and wasn't some idiot just betting on Manny because he was Manny.
 

WayBackVazquez

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You can pretty much almost formulate a post hoc claim that the odds were wrong. Even if Canelo wins via a dominating 5-round TKO you could, and many would, make excuses.

I do not like Canelo, and I love watching Cotto when he has it together. But the guy is 100 years old, has been through a lot of wars, and everyone thought he was toast before he fought an even more crispy Martinez.
 

Marciano490

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You can pretty much almost formulate a post hoc claim that the odds were wrong. Even if Canelo wins via a dominating 5-round TKO you could, and many would, make excuses.

I do not like Canelo, and I love watching Cotto when he has it together. But the guy is 100 years old, has been through a lot of wars, and everyone thought he was toast before he fought an even more crispy Martinez.
He's definitely been in a lot of wars, but not lately - last time he really got tagged was against Manny 5-6 years ago. He lost to Floyd and Trout in the meantime, but those weren't break-you-down type fights. He looked reborn versus Martinez, and I don't think that was all Martinez' agedness letting Cotto look good. He also was very, very impressive against Geale, who was considered a good enough contender to go against your big drama show GGG.

Meanwhile, I've never been hugely impressed by Canelo. He's stymied by a good jab and if Josesito Lopez weren't coming up in weight and giving away so many pounds, methinks he would've put Canelo down, if not out. He was tagging Alvarez flush through that fight. Canelo's best wins are against Trout, who's pretty meh and Kirkland who stood in the pocket and traded against a superior puncher. Frankly, I hated his strategy, but I thought Lara beat Canelo 7-5. I think an on-his-toes Cotto working off a good jab wins this fight fairly easily.

And we can make our bets right here, huckleberry.
 

WayBackVazquez

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I think if I bet this fight I'm going to take Canelo by KO or TKO, which is at 11:4 most places. You want to give me that?