Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

[BGrif21125]

his boxing ability is otherworldly, but rather than be recognized that way he will probably go down as just another great fighter from the era when boxing died.
Boxing is not dying, not by a long shot.

It's still a very popular niche sport in the US and a tremendously popular mainstream sport globally. And love him or hate him, Mayweather contributes significantly to that popularity.

There are tons of reasons to bash Mayweather, but he brings more fans to the sport than he pushes away. And the sport isn't dying, despite all its flaws.

 

[Judge Mental13]

Maybe "died" was too strong a word but boxing in the US as a spectator sport is about as far from a growth sports industry as you can get for bouts that still pay out 10s of millions of dollars.  I would argue that Floyd's style and lack of power pushes away a lot more potential fans than it brings in.  In other words, I don't think people will stop following boxing because of Floyd, but I don't think at this point that anyone is going to start following boxing just to watch Floyd both float and sting like a butterfly for 12 rounds either. 
 
I'm not saying that's right, either.  Just seems like the trend.

 

[BGrif21125]

Maybe "died" was too strong a word but boxing in the US as a spectator sport is about as far from a growth sports industry as you can get for bouts that still pay out 10s of millions of dollars.
Canelo Alvarez is only 22 years old and he drew 40,000 fans to the Alamodome 2 weeks ago. He could sell out Dodger Stadium right now versus a top opponent. There are still very large numbers of people in the US who will pay to watch boxing in-person and on TV. And boxing is extremely popular in the Latino community, a population group that is going to continue to grow larger in the US.

It's an incredibly flawed and corrupt sport that still has a very sizable fanbase and is still very profitable. There are an endless list of things that boxing can be criticized for, but its popularity is sound.

 

[Marciano490]

This has been one of the best year for fights that I remember.

In terms of knockouts, fighters get in trouble when they chase knockouts. Floyd doesn't have a ton of power, nor should he after moving up a ton of weight. Plus, he's fighting guys that don't go down. How many times has Shane been down? Guerrero? Also, don't forget he has frail hands.

 

[shawnrbu]

Manny vs. Brandon Rios is on for November in China.  Also looks like we will be getting Bradley vs. JMM as early as September 14th. 

 

[Marciano490]

Assuming Manny and JMM both win, do they fight again with the winner getting PBF, or if JMM knocks Bradley out, has he done enough to earn a rematch with Floyd?  After how bad he looked the first time around, I'd think he'd need to take out both Bradley and Manny to get back in.  Likewise, I can't see Manny getting Mayweather without at least 2 convincing wins.

 

[BGrif21125]

Assuming Manny and JMM both win, do they fight again with the winner getting PBF, or if JMM knocks Bradley out, has he done enough to earn a rematch with Floyd? After how bad he looked the first time around, I'd think he'd need to take out both Bradley and Manny to get back in. Likewise, I can't see Manny getting Mayweather without at least 2 convincing wins.


None of these guys can face Floyd as long as they're affiliated with Top Rank/HBO. 2 completely separate leagues right now: Top Rank/HBO and Golden Boy/Showtime.

All of Floyd's potential future opponents will be Golden Boy fighters. Khan, Alexander, Garcia, Matthysse, etc. Canelo is the big one but I don't see Floyd taking that risk as long as Showtime is paying him $30+ million to fight guys like Guerrero.

 

[Marciano490]

Maybe you're right, but that was the scuttlebutt before Tyson-Lewis finally happened.
 
Khan isn't going to get a shot - did you see his last fight?  He barely won in his hometown, and was almost knocked out a few times.  Matthysse?  No way.  Same with Alexander.  Garcia would be a decent fight, but it's not like he blew out Zab, and Zab's half PBF these days.  Supposedly, he's at the table with Canelo now, but he's still got 4 fights with Showtime after that.  If Manny and JMM keep winning, one or both will get in the ring with Floyd before it's all over.

 

[Marciano490]

Fight fans should do themselves a favor and watch the Matthysse-Peterson fight.  I won't spoil it for those who want to watch it fresh other than by saying damnnnnnnnnnn.  Garcia vs. the winner is going to be a very, very fun fight to watch.

 

[ElUno20]

Looks like Floyd is trying to make his last chapter a memorable one.

Floyd Vs. Canelo September
14 at 152 lbs.

 

[CrouchingTonyHiddenPena]

As an unabashed 'Manny Camp' member, I can honestly say that if Floyd finishes off these next two opponents convincingly, that there is no doubt he will go down as arguably (I would argue the best) PFP to ever tape up the gloves. To see him continue to beat younger, hungrier fighters at the top of their game time and time again is just mind-boggling.  You would assume he would have had a letup by now due to even slight physical decay via aging, yet he just keeps proving the doubters wrong.
 
While I personally feel that if he and Manny had fought 5 years ago in their primes, that Manny would have beaten him soundly, I feel the complete opposite is true today. Manny has declined at an exponentially more rapid rate than Floyd in their later careers.  To see Floyd maintain this level of dominance for sooooo long...what can you say really?  It's just remarkable.  Though I truly despise the man as a person, he is just friggin' incredible at his craft.

 

[Marciano490]

I came here to post about Dawson getting KTFO.  Wow, that was a true one-hitter quitter.
 
As for Mayweather, I think he's very, very smart to fight Canelo now.  Canelo has a very high ceiling, but he hasn't developed much over his last few fights.  His defense is still porous, and I don't think he has the hand speed to catch Manny.  I expect another 12 round decision for PBF.
 
I would love to see him fight Matthyse.  I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped in weight to pick off Martinez, who looked awful his last fight.

 

[allaboutthesox]

Good fight between Broner and Malignaggi.  The fight was close as Malignaggi was the busier fighter, but most of those punches were blocked.  Broner hit harder and landed a lot more power shots.  Broner is still a bit of a raw fighter at this point, but I like what I see.  He needs better footwork and to become a better "boxer" overall.  He [Broner] seems to rely more on pure athleticism and ability at this point.
 
Broner looked fine at 147 and it may be the weight he should stay at.  That is where the money is right now in boxing and I am sure he wants a piece of that.  Broner will have to make that decision and soon.  As jumping up and down to maintain ownership of his belts can become a task in itself outside of the fight.
 
The scoring was about fair with the exception of the 117-111 score and I thought Malignaggi's post fight interview was brutally honest and revealing.  This fight had questionable scoring and boxing seems to be littered with that recently (Bradley vs Pacman, Cotto vs Mayweather, and now this fight).  The scoring difference in some of these fights only adds fuel to Malignaggi's statements at the end.  I think Broner won the fight, but not by the margin that was stated with the 117-111.
 
Overall, a good fight with the expected result.  Just not in the fashion that most people thought.

 

[allaboutthesox]

As an unabashed 'Manny Camp' member, I can honestly say that if Floyd finishes off these next two opponents convincingly, that there is no doubt he will go down as arguably (I would argue the best) PFP to ever tape up the gloves. To see him continue to beat younger, hungrier fighters at the top of their game time and time again is just mind-boggling.  You would assume he would have had a letup by now due to even slight physical decay via aging, yet he just keeps proving the doubters wrong.
 
While I personally feel that if he and Manny had fought 5 years ago in their primes, that Manny would have beaten him soundly, I feel the complete opposite is true today. Manny has declined at an exponentially more rapid rate than Floyd in their later careers.  To see Floyd maintain this level of dominance for sooooo long...what can you say really?  It's just remarkable.  Though I truly despise the man as a person, he is just friggin' incredible at his craft.

 
I agree with this post, with one minor exception.  I still think that Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest boxer ever, but Floyd is right there with him.  However, my reasons for why I think Sugar Ray Robinson is better goes a little deeper than just what he was able to accomplish in the ring.

 

[ElUno20]

There is no period of time in history in which manny would have beaten Floyd "soundly". The only guys he ever beat soundly were washed up fighters (Oscar, Hatton, Diaz, morales the last time). His "boxing" does lend itself to beating guys soundly because he's all action.


Also on this weekends fight, anyone comparing AB to Floyd needs their head examined.

 

[allaboutthesox]

There is no period of time in history in which manny would have beaten Floyd "soundly". The only guys he ever beat soundly were washed up fighters (Oscar, Hatton, Diaz, morales the last time). His "boxing" does lend itself to beating guys soundly because he's all action.


Also on this weekends fight, anyone comparing AB to Floyd needs their head examined.

 
Broner is not nearly as good as Floyd, yet.  I think the potential to be compared to Floyd is there.  However, Floyd is a "once in a generation" type of fighter.  Many of the things he has done will be talked about for many, many years to come.  So, trying to compare him now would seem a bit early.
 
To his credit though Broner is strong and very quick, but has a lot to learn still on boxing itself.  Broner tends to rely more on counterpunching power shots.  At least in this fight that I saw against Malignaggi.  One can see that against another opponent with more power that Broner will find that it will take more than just counterpunching power shots to win a fight on points.  It will be very interesting to see how he develops as he is only 23 years old and could have a very long and prosperous career. 
 
I just wonder if he will be the only draw in the welterweight division 2-3 years from now and there will not be anyone for him to fight and try to build a legacy with. A la Roy Jones Jr. when he was cleaning out the division he [Jones]was in.

 

[PrestonBroadus Lives]

The only reason anyone compares Broner to Floyd is because Broner idolizes Floyd and invites the comparison. IMO, if Broner wants to reach his potential, he needs to drop the Mayweatheresque shoulder roll and adopt a style that fits his skillset (I don't think he has the defensive instincts to successfully utilize the shoulder roll, which also seems to inhibit his offense). At 23, Floyd beat the hell out of Chico Corrales, dropping him 5 times on his way to a TKO victory. Broner, at the same age, only earned a split decision off of Malignaggi, which is nothing to celebrate if your goal is to be an elite fighter on the level of a Mayweather (I personally had the fight a little wider, but would agree that Broner's inactivity opened the door for a  wide range of scores). I don't mean to dump on Paulie, who's always been tough as nails and has great boxing skills, but the guy has absolutely no power whatsoever. In the past, some very good fighters have come in and absolutely dominated Malignaggi (Cotto, Hatton and Khan come to mind, Khan also having been 23 when he fought Paulie). If Broner wants to take the next step, he needs to figure out his own identity as a fighter and start boxing to his own strengths.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Bump -- just one week left to Mayweather vs. Canelo "Cinnamon" Alvarez. 
 
I've seen all Alvarez highlight tapes I can find, and I'm convinced Mayweather will school him. Floyd is too fast, too slippery, and too experienced to let most of Alvarez' power get to him.
 
I'm one of the biggest Floyd haters around but I'm afraid this won't be the time I see his unbeaten streak end. 

 

[riboflav]

Bump -- just one week left to Mayweather vs. Canelo "Cinnamon" Alvarez. 
 
I've seen all Alvarez highlight tapes I can find, and I'm convinced Mayweather will school him. Floyd is too fast, too slippery, and too experienced to let most of Alvarez' power get to him.
 
I'm one of the biggest Floyd haters around but I'm afraid this won't be the time I see his unbeaten streak end. 

 
I was just coming here to post something similar, but I'm not much of boxing aficionado. Anyway, as a Mayweather-hater myself, I'm hoping someone can make the case for Alvarez winning. Someone? Anyone?

 

[ElUno20]

He's the most dangerous guy Floyd has fought in a while. He's also a damn truck of a Jr. Middleweight. So he should be able to take some punishment to open up some chances for himself. The issue will be in the middle of the ring though, he's a decent counter puncher but I can't see him winning the fight there.

Best case for canelo is he gets the same opportunity Cotto got. But Floyd's dad did a tremendous job getting in his ass about getting back to his old habits. It is boxing though and one punch can change things but people never acknowledge that defensive fighters rarely get old over night. Theyll lose or flame out but its a gradual process. Even in a loss I don't see him getting destroyed.

The thing with Floyd is every single thing you see or hear is a corny and contrived move to sell more ppvs, and it works, but when it comes to boxing he's as pure as it gets. He's the blue meth. It's a tough shell to crack

 

[Marciano490]

Like I said upthread, maybe in another year or two Canelo could make a credible opponent, but his defense is too weak to challenge Floyd right now.  Lopez was able to hit him all night, and if he had more power, Canelo might've hit the canvas once or twice.
 
That said, power is power, and 12 rounds is a long time.  If Canelo can follow Cotto's plan and capitalize a bit more on the ropes, he has a shot.  I'd say at about 30%.
 
I'm far, far more excited for Matthyse-Garcia.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Like I said upthread, maybe in another year or two Canelo could make a credible opponent, but his defense is too weak to challenge Floyd right now.  Lopez was able to hit him all night, and if he had more power, Canelo might've hit the canvas once or twice.

 
I agree -- although he has speed to control the angles, but what I saw was a powerful puncher with less-than-elite level footwork and a lots of open stances, resulting in not closing quickly enough after power combos miss. 
 
That, ladies and gentleman, is an opponent made for Mayweather. I don't think we recognize Canelo's face after the 7th round. 50% chance corner throws in the towel without the Great Red Hope never actually going down.

 

[Marciano490]

 
I agree -- although he has speed to control the angles, but what I saw was a powerful puncher with less-than-elite level footwork and a lots of open stances, resulting in not closing quickly enough after power combos miss. 
 
That, ladies and gentleman, is an opponent made for Mayweather. I don't think we recognize Canelo's face after the 7th round. 50% chance corner throws in the towel without the Great Red Hope never actually going down.

 
Not that this is impossible, but I think you might be overselling it a bit.  Canelo is going to follow the Cotto blueprint, and I think that's the way to win.  He needs to - and will attempt to - bully PBF into the ropes, bury his head on Floyd's chest and go hard to the body. 
 
Canelo's chin can withstand Floyd's power and he's the younger and more energetic fighter.  If you really think there's a 50% chance of a Mayweather TKO, let's put a bit of money to charity on that.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

Anyone know what might be my best bet to find a stream of the fight?

 

[Phragle]

x2
 
 
I'm on first row, but nothin.

 

[PrestonBroadus Lives]

x2
 
 
I'm on first row, but nothin.

 
Telecast didn't start until 9 pm, plenty of links up on first row now.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

So I generally don't use streams, do I actually need to download something or are those just fake ads?
 
I've got Audio but Video isn't working.
 
Nevermind: I was blocking the plug in from running.

 

[Marciano490]

I'm shocked by Matthyse's performance so far.  You can see him thinking out there.  Masterful work so far by the apparently very underrated Danny Garcia.

 

[PrestonBroadus Lives]

Props to Garcia, kid can take a punch and throws some pretty ferocious combinations.
 
According to Dan Rafael, Floyd weighed in tonight at 150 lbs, Canelo at 165...

 

[SoxScout]

Wayne and Bieber. Lovely.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Wayne and Bieber. Lovely.

 
I hated Mayweather before. It just doubled with that little combo. 

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Jim Lennon's Spanish shout-outs are always smoooooooooooth.

 

[Rod Becks Mullet]

looks like Showtime has been fairly successful in killing streams.  Every time I find one of theirs, it gets shut down fairly quickly.  Looks like I'm stuck with the European telecast.  Anybody having luck getting the Showtime feed?

 

[Marciano490]

Bovada suddenly stopped taking Visa.  I wanted to put a quick $50 on Canelo.  Oh well, it probably saved me in the end.

 

[Marciano490]

Man, Canelo looks twice as big and half as fast.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Canelo may have a shot!

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

looks like Showtime has been fairly successful in killing streams.  Every time I find one of theirs, it gets shut down fairly quickly.  Looks like I'm stuck with the European telecast.  Anybody having luck getting the Showtime feed?

 
http://www.vipboxonline.eu/boxing/174472/9/boxnation-showtime-ppv-:-floyd-mayweather-vs-canelo-alvarez-square-live-stream-online.html

 

[Marciano490]

Canelo fighting at Floyd's pace so far, trying to establish himself as the counterpuncher.  Floyd starting to take control a bit with 1-2's.  Canelo has not answer for Floyd's jab - his defense is so porous.

 

[Rod Becks Mullet]

Floyd is in total control out there.  

 

[Greg29fan]

low blow

 

[Marciano490]

Ah shit, we got a fight now.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Canelo has to take a chance sometime here. He's fighting a losing fight.

 

[Marciano490]

Canelo with a good first 2/3 of the round before Floyd took over.  Canelo overcommits so much with his parries he leaves himself open.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I've got 4 rounds to 1, Mayweather. 

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Pacman in his prime may have been the only match worth all the PPVs. 

 

[Marciano490]

Shit Floyd's accurate.  That was a virtuoso round for Mayweather.

 

[BoredViewer]

This isn't close.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

The only opponent who can beat Mayweather right now is Mayweather five years younger. 

 

[Marciano490]

Canelo's gotta go for broke here.  And the blonde a few rows behind Broner needs to marry me.

 

[SoxScout]

Snoozefest