Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

ElUno20

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QUOTE (SeoulSoxFan @ Nov 21 2009, 11:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2694885
Wasn't that impressed with Ward, and not certainly Kessler. Pound for pound? Not quite.


wow. He just made the top fighter in the division look foolish for 10 rounds, completely took him apart technically, and had pretty much a flawless performance. What does it take to impress you?
 

SeoulSoxFan

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QUOTE (ElUno20 @ Nov 22 2009, 12:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2694917
wow. He just made the top fighter in the division look foolish for 10 rounds, completely took him apart technically, and had pretty much a flawless performance. What does it take to impress you?


Only because Kessler didn't look anywhere near himself. And he couldn't see anything out of his eye(s) after the headbutts. Let's also be fair, Ward led in with a lot of heads this evening.
 

BGrif21125

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I thought Ward fought very very well. And he responded well on the occasions when Kessler hit him with flush shots.

After the first phase of fights, I don't have a real clue how this thing is going to turn out. Which is a good thing. That means the tournament is working so far.
 

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Well, color me convinced by Andre Ward. I never thought anything close to what happened would actually happen. Shows how much I know, I guess.

Ultimately, the difference as it so often is, was hand and foot speed. Ward's shots were too fast for Kessler and he presented such an elusive target that Kessler simply couldn't find him. If Ward maintains that level of discipline in the ring, he's going to be a tough nut to crack for anyone in this tournament -- or out of it.

That said, he WAS leading with his head on more than one occasion and he should have been at least warned if not penalized for holding. I thought Al Bernstein had it right. The holding and headbutts were a factor in the fight, but not the deciding factor.

I also thought Kessler looked sluggish from the outset. Often fighters are too dry coming into the ring, and that causes them to fight stiffly. But Kessler appeared to be drenched in sweat before he even started his ring walk. I wonder if he warned up too much before going out there. He really didn't appear to be himself, even independent of Ward's quickness and elusiveness.

Anyway, this tournament is shaping up to be very intriguing. Still have to count Abraham the favorite, but it's getting tougher to make a prediction.
 

ElUno20

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Why have judges? This is nuts. Funeka just dominated the last ten rounds of the fight and the judges called it a draw.
 

ElUno20

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Bute was spectacular last night in stopping Andrade. He's also a dead ringer for Joe C!

My question is with most of the top 168ers in the super six, what does he do for the next year? I wish we could sub out Taylor for Bute.
 

BGrif21125

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I was interested to see if HBO would finally cave and acknowledge the Super Six. It would have been downright laughable if they had simply ignored it during Bute-Andrade II. And they did mention it, sort of. I don't think they actually mentioned it by name, just "The Tournament."

Seems that Bute has 3 options:
1. Lobby to replace JT in Super Six, should JT pull out.
2. Fight 2nd tier 168-pounders while waiting for the Super Six to end, and then challenge the winner.
3. Take a big risk and try to get a fight against Dawson at 175.

P.S. Funeka got robbed.
 

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QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Nov 30 2009, 09:48 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2704162
I was interested to see if HBO would finally cave and acknowledge the Super Six. It would have been downright laughable if they had simply ignored it during Bute-Andrade II. And they did mention it, sort of. I don't think they actually mentioned it by name, just "The Tournament."

Seems that Bute has 3 options:
1. Lobby to replace JT in Super Six, should JT pull out.
2. Fight 2nd tier 168-pounders while waiting for the Super Six to end, and then challenge the winner.
3. Take a big risk and try to get a fight against Dawson at 175.

P.S. Funeka got robbed.



Another option I've seen thrown around for Bute is moving to 175 to fight Jean Pascal (assuming he gets by Diaconu in a couple of weeks). The atmosphere and crowd for that fight would be unbelievable.
 

BGrif21125

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QUOTE (PrestonBroadus Lives @ Nov 30 2009, 02:27 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2704481
Another option I've seen thrown around for Bute is moving to 175 to fight Jean Pascal (assuming he gets by Diaconu in a couple of weeks). The atmosphere and crowd for that fight would be unbelievable.

I didn't even think of that, and it makes way more sense than the Dawson option I put out there.
 

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QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Nov 30 2009, 02:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2704497
I didn't even think of that, and it makes way more sense than the Dawson option I put out there.


HBO is supposedly pushing for Bute-Pavlik in 2010. It's the biggest money fight out there for both of them right now. Actually, Pavlik is running out oportunities thanks mainly to himself. Plus, there's no significant fights at middleweight right now.

Bute would have to go up to 175 to meet Pascal. That would also be a big fight for him, in that it would be the biggest all-Canadian fight, maybe ever. But I don't think the HBO dollars would be there for that one. That's more of a Showtime fight.

I was stunned by how he destroyed Andrade. I didn't think it was possible. I never expected Andrade to actually win, but I thought it would go the distance and basically be a replay of the first fight without the last-second non-knockout. Hell of an HBO debut for Bute. Makes me want to see him again, and that's what HBO wants.

Seemed like Kellerman's mention of the "tournament" was grudging at best. There was no way around mentioning it, given that all of Bute's best potential opponents at 168 are in it, but as you mentioned, they never gave nay details of the tournamnet and I loved how Kellerman said that it had "sucked up" most of Bute's potential opposition.

I just wish they'd cover boxing like a sport, not like another HBO Original series.
 

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Roy was tko'd this morning by Danny Green in the first round. He announced his retirement after the fight. Sad day. As flashy as he was, he truly loved the sport and had great respect for it. Sucks that he'll go out this way.

I guess this mean Bhop will be fighting David Haye later this year.
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BGrif21125

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Here's the fight, may get pulled soon:



This HAS to finally be the end for Roy. And it goes to show you, that most great fighters don't go out in a high profile fight, they usually end their careers losing to a B or C level opponent who they would have annihilated in their primes. He really should have walked away after the Calzaghe loss.

Interesting to see how Hopkins fights tonight. It's gotta be a bit of a letdown, knowing that the Jones fight has fallen apart. Not that I think Hopkins will lose or anything...
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(What's being spoilered is the Roy Jones fight result, which already occurred today in Australia.)
 

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QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Dec 2 2009, 10:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2708810


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Here's the fight, may get pulled soon:



This HAS to finally be the end for Roy. And it goes to show you, that most great fighters don't go out in a high profile fight, they usually end their careers losing to a B or C level opponent who they would have annihilated in their primes. He really should have walked away after the Calzaghe loss.

Interesting to see how Hopkins fights tonight. It's gotta be a bit of a letdown, knowing that the Jones fight has fallen apart. Not that I think Hopkins will lose or anything...
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(What's being spoilered is the Roy Jones fight result, which already occurred today in Australia.)

I'll spoiler-tag my comments as well.



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Interesting. The shot that put Jones down looked to me like it landed on the back of Jones neck, but it may also have caught his ear and thrown off his equilibrium. Either way, Jones just looked slow. Fighting with your left hand low, leaving yourself open to a right hand, may work if you're young and super-quick like the prime Roy Jones. But not now, obviously. I just hope he's really retired. I think he should have called it quits after the Trinidad fight, and gone out on a high note.

And speaking of retired, does this in any way taint Calzaghe's victory over Jones? is Calzaghe's signature victory (well, signature in his own mind, it seems) really just a beat-down of a tired old man?
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SeoulSoxFan

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QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Dec 2 2009, 10:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2708810
(What's being spoilered is the Roy Jones fight result, which already occurred today in Australia.)


What a brutal way to go out. What I enjoyed is the bellowing of the announcers (Aussies or Sky Brit annoncers?) that say "if you beat a legend you are a legend"! :)
 

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QUOTE (Gene Conleys Plane Ticket @ Dec 2 2009, 10:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2708838
I'll spoiler-tag my comments as well.



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And speaking of retired, does this in any way taint Calzaghe's victory over Jones? is Calzaghe's signature victory (well, signature in his own mind, it seems) really just a beat-down of a tired old man?
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Does anybody(besides Calzaghe) think it wasn't just a beat-down of a tired old man though? To me that's exactly what it was and I assumed everyone else felt the same. Roy has been a tired old man for years.
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QUOTE (Naehring11 @ Dec 2 2009, 12:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2709006


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Does anybody(besides Calzaghe) think it wasn't just a beat-down of a tired old man though? To me that's exactly what it was and I assumed everyone else felt the same. Roy has been a tired old man for years.
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I'll keep this as a spoiler even though the result of the Jones fight is all over the web at this point.



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You're probably right, but I guess what I'm saying is that Calzaghe has always said that he retired because he had nothing left to accomplish after beating two legends in Hopkins and Jones. The Hopkins victory was definitely a great achievement, but I'm wondering if to Calzaghe, the Jones victory now seems less so and I'm wondering if it may cause Joe to start rethinking his retirement, maybe to fight Bute or something like that.

I also have to wonder what Jones was thinking taking this kind of a tune-up fight prior to the big payday of Hopkins II. Danny Green isn't the greatest fighter ever, but he's not a tomato can either. He's a pretty solid guy. Hopkins on the other hand is fighting someone I've never heard of but apparently is a mediocre middleweight who's jumping up to light-heavy for this fight. A classic "opponent." I guess I admire Jones' risk-taking, but wow. Not a good business move, that's for sure.

And Jones, it turns out, is saying he's only thinking about retirement. Hasn't made up his mind. Yeesh.
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mclusky

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QUOTE (Gene Conleys Plane Ticket @ Dec 2 2009, 10:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2708838
I'll spoiler-tag my comments as well.



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Interesting. The shot that put Jones down looked to me like it landed on the back of Jones neck, but it may also have caught his ear and thrown off his equilibrium. Either way, Jones just looked slow. Fighting with your left hand low, leaving yourself open to a right hand, may work if you're young and super-quick like the prime Roy Jones. But not now, obviously. I just hope he's really retired. I think he should have called it quits after the Trinidad fight, and gone out on a high note.

And speaking of retired, does this in any way taint Calzaghe's victory over Jones? is Calzaghe's signature victory (well, signature in his own mind, it seems) really just a beat-down of a tired old man?
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I was worried about this fight; now I'm deprived of Hopkins/Jones 24/7, and it seems a shame that Hopkins doesn't get the chance to retire Roy. What are you gonna do.

As for Calzaghe, well. He got a nice decision against Hopkins without really landing anything you'd call a "punch," and Roy Jones' corpse took him the distance. I'll say that he should stay retired if he wants to protect that 0.
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ElUno20

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QUOTE (mclusky @ Dec 2 2009, 12:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2709076


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I was worried about this fight; now I'm deprived of Hopkins/Jones 24/7, and it seems a shame that Hopkins doesn't get the chance to retire Roy. What are you gonna do.

As for Calzaghe, well. He got a nice decision against Hopkins without really landing anything you'd call a "punch," and Roy Jones' corpse took him the distance. I'll say that he should stay retired if he wants to protect that 0.
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Seriously. Lacey(bum), Roy(was a shell of himself), Hopkins (i don't think he won the fight but I'll give him credit), and lastly Kessler who was just taken apart by (21 pro fights) Andre Ward. Calzaghe should stay retired.
 

ElUno20

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QUOTE (Gene Conleys Plane Ticket @ Dec 2 2009, 09:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2709932
Am I crazy, or is Ornelas giving Hopkins all he can handle? Round 6 and this looks pretty even to me.


I just got in and started watching from the 9th on. Ornelas looked game and took some good shots.
 

BGrif21125

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I'm not sure what was worse... watching Roy Jones get TKO'd in the 1st round, or listening to Bernard Hopkins plead his case that the Hopkins-Jones fight should still happen!
 

ElUno20

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QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Dec 3 2009, 12:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2710139
I'm not sure what was worse... watching Roy Jones get TKO'd in the 1st round, or listening to Bernard Hopkins plead his case that the Hopkins-Jones fight should still happen!



How about his assertion that Australia is in Europe? lmao


I wasn't surprised he still wanted to fight Roy. He hates him with a passion.
 

ElUno20

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QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Dec 3 2009, 12:39 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2710139
I'm not sure what was worse... watching Roy Jones get TKO'd in the 1st round, or listening to Bernard Hopkins plead his case that the Hopkins-Jones fight should still happen!



How about his assertion that Australia is in Europe? lmao


I wasn't surprised he still wanted to fight Roy. He hates him with a passion.
 

mclusky

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QUOTE (ElUno20 @ Dec 2 2009, 09:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2709993
I just got in and started watching from the 9th on. Ornelas looked game and took some good shots.

It did look pretty even going into the middle rounds. Thought Ornelas definitely won a couple of them. Bernard asserted himself in rounds 5-9.

Still, Ornelas was competitive -- at this point I think Hopkins-Ornelas II is more viable than Hopkins-Jones II.
 

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QUOTE (mclusky @ Dec 3 2009, 01:09 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2710226
It did look pretty even going into the middle rounds. Thought Ornelas definitely won a couple of them. Bernard asserted himself in rounds 5-9.

Still, Ornelas was competitive -- at this point I think Hopkins-Ornelas II is more viable than Hopkins-Jones II.

Yeah, that's how I saw it. 'Nard took command around the midpoint and dominated after that. I still thought the scorecards were way too lopsided. One judge had Hopkins winning every round.

So, Hopkins still says he wants the Jones fight. Kind of crazy, but in a way I can't blame him. He's been chasing after this fight for the last 15 years of his life. He finally gets it only to see it vanish literally in about two minutes. Granted, 'Nard is a lunatic, but in this case, I understand why he's in denial.
 

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119-111?

You've gotta be kidding me.

Helluva fight between Williams and Martinez. Here's hoping they do it again in about 6 months.

Incredible.
 

ElUno20

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Holy shit what a fight! Fight of the year candidate in December. So much heart from both guys. I thought Martinez won the fight by a round or it could have been a draw because there were a lot close rounds. I don't know how that judge had it 119-110 but in the words of Antonio Tarver "that judge should be banned from America!"

I didn't think I would ever see Pwill completely gassed in a fight but it happened. Martinez was on tired legs in the 12th but Paul had nothing left to take advantage.
 

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QUOTE (ElUno20 @ Dec 6 2009, 12:00 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2715361
Holy shit what a fight! Fight of the year candidate in December. So much heart from both guys. I thought Martinez won the fight by a round or it could have been a draw because there were a lot close rounds. I don't know how that judge had it 119-110 but in the words of Antonio Tarver "that judge should be banned from America!"

I didn't think I would ever see Pwill completely gassed in a fight but it happened. Martinez was on tired legs in the 12th but Paul had nothing left to take advantage.


Definitely a FOTY candidate. Kind of like Marquez-Vasquez, you had two elite fighters going all out with world-class skill, heart and toughness. Wow. They don't come better than that one.

I had Martinez winning 115-113, but obviously it was so close I'm fine with Williams winning, or with the draw. 119-110, 11 rounds to 1, is a joke. Really makes you wonder. But they've got to do that one again, and I think they will because there aren't too many guys lining up to fight either one of those two. Great way to end the boxing year (almost).

I will add this, though. The way Williams leaves himself wide open for right hands, he should be glad Pavlik pulled out of his fight. Martinez isn't much of a puncher but he had Williams reeling on more than one occasion. If a puncher of Pavlik's caliber is able to get his right hand in like that, no matter how tough he is, there's no way Williams ends the fight on his feet.
 

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The judge who scored it 119-110 for Williams should never be allowed to judge a fight again.

It's bullshit like this that turns casual viewers off to boxing.
 

ElUno20

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Suggestion: Can we start a new general Boxeo thread January 1?

I know we still got some decent fights left this month, Pavlik fights, Bradley vs. Peterson [!] with Vic on the undercard, so that's why I think Jan. 1 would be good.
 

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This is rather interesting. Victor Conte, the man at the center of the BALCO scandal (in which Shane Mosely was implicated) is back in business with a new "legal" operation, and he has been working with Andre Ward.

But it's OK, but Conte has vowed that he is now gone completely straight.

QUOTE
"Victor, I like you man, but don't go down that road with me," Ward said he told Conte. "Victor's a brilliant guy when it comes to this stuff, but I was still going to be watchful. I did my due diligence. I read all the labels. And I feel he deserves to be forgiven."
 

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5 fights for "free" on Saturday night, not a bad way to end the HBO/Showtime year.

Klitschko-Johnson, Diaz-Malignaggi II and Ortiz-Diaz on HBO. Bradley-Peterson and Darchinyan-Rojas on Showtime.

Then nothing for about 6 weeks. Unless you're really excited for the Pavlik PPV card.
 

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The Vitali fight was a snoozer. Johnson spent more energy talking than punching, and seemed content to just last the 12 rounds.
I don't think Ortiz looked that good, seemed overly cautious.
On Showtime, I thought Peterson showed a lot of toughness, but was clearly taking a huge step up in class against Bradley. Round 3 was a great round.

Fight of the Year: Marquez-Diaz
Fighter of the Year: Pacquiao, obviously
KO of the Year: Pacquiao-Hatton, obviously
Round of the Year: drawing a complete blank at the moment, need to think about it
 

mclusky

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Any thoughts on the Diaz-Malignaggi fight?

Diaz got some of the most schizophrenic corner advice I've ever heard:
"Juan, take this round off and just box"
"Juan, you've got to go and bum rush this guy"
"Juan, you've got to stop rushing in on this guy"

A year and a half ago Diaz was calling out Pacquiao and no one thought it was ridiculous. It's been a tough road since then.

You also have to love Malignaggi trying to insert himself into the JMM-Hatton picture, particularly for the notion that future HoFer Marquez should face him in an "eliminator." Sure, Paulie, just tell us when you're guest starring on "Jersey Shore."
 

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Diaz-Paulie:pretty much what was expected. I guess the only surprise was Paulie looked even more dominant. At 140, Diaz is just too small.

The real highlight of the weekend was bradley's performance vs. Peterson. Absolutely spectacular. He gets better with every fight and right now I'd take him over anyone at 140. His only downfall is that corny rapper he comes out with. If he can get off showtime he'll have a big 2010.
 

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Not to take the thread off the course it was on, but it seems as if Yuri Foreman wants to fight Cotto in June rather than fighting on the undercard of Pacquiao vs. Mayweather. Since both fighters are promoted by Bob Arum, I could see this fight happening at MSG. My only concern here is how will Cotto handle fighting at 154 and will he drop Jose Santiago and bring in a more established trainer. Steward, Roach, or Richardson might be some trainers of interest.

I would watch the fight (obviously), but not sure what the plan would be for Cotto. The junior middleweight seems a bit heavy for Cotto, but I believe Cotto is known to pack on the weight after a fight. So, maybe coming down only to 154 would be easy. However, fighting at that weight is something else. This fight would be risky for Cotto just for the mere fact that Cotto has never fought at 154. I would like to think he would rather fight a tune up fight at that weight first.

Cotto definitely needs to find a new trainer if he plans on fighting anymore at a championship level.
 

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I can see Arum's thinking on this one. He wants Cotto fighting at MSG on the eve of the annual PR parade, and putting him against a NY-based Jewish fighter helps his ability to sell tickets in NYC. Plus he can sell the fight to fans as Cotto taking a risk at a new weight for a title (albeit a meaningless one).

After taking such a pounding against Pacquiao (not to mention Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, etc.), Cotto needs a fight against someone with little-to-no power. Foreman fits the bill. And Foreman is a competent boxer, so it should at least be a competitive fight.

As for a new trainer... I don't know, I think Cotto is what he is at this point. He wants to run his own show, for better or worse. And let's be honest, if he loses to Yuri Foreman, his problems are much bigger than anything a trainer can fix.
 

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QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Dec 21 2009, 01:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2737768
I can see Arum's thinking on this one. He wants Cotto fighting at MSG on the eve of the annual PR parade, and putting him against a NY-based Jewish fighter helps his ability to sell tickets in NYC. Plus he can sell the fight to fans as Cotto taking a risk at a new weight for a title (albeit a meaningless one).

After taking such a pounding against Pacquiao (not to mention Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, etc.), Cotto needs a fight against someone with little-to-no power. Foreman fits the bill. And Foreman is a competent boxer, so it should at least be a competitive fight.

As for a new trainer... I don't know, I think Cotto is what he is at this point. He wants to run his own show, for better or worse. And let's be honest, if he loses to Yuri Foreman, his problems are much bigger than anything a trainer can fix.


Well, I would like to say that a new trainer would go a long way into trying to fix some of Cotto's problems in the ring. Cotto has basically abandoned any type of consistent jab. I would like to think a new trainer could fix some of these technical issues Cotto has.

None the less, I think it would be interesting none the less to see Cotto at a heavier weight. However, doesn't change the fact that at this point I think he should retire. Better to be remembered as a great fighter than one who fought too long.
 

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QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Jan 12 2010, 01:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2767982
Taylor officially drops out of Super Six.

Allan Green and Sakio Bika likely to fight in February to determine who will replace Taylor.

Link

Glad to hear that... Taylor was never a favorite of mine but his fights were always exciting to watch. Those last two or three losses were by brutal knockout; he needs the time off and has no business ruining himself against Ward.

I would've enjoyed seeing Bute as the replacement.
 

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Despite the fact that Roy Jones is a decomposed corpse, he's still fighting Bernard Hopkins.

QUOTE
Hopkins, who will be 45 on Friday and still ranks among the best fighters in the world pound-for-pound, and Jones, who turns 41 on Saturday, signed contracts to meet in a scheduled 12-round light heavyweight fight on pay-per-view, representatives for both fighters told ESPN.com on Wednesday night.

The fight likely will be April 17 at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer, Hopkins' promoter, said.


Link

No thanks.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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QUOTE (BGrif21125 @ Jan 14 2010, 12:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=2770477
Despite the fact that Roy Jones is a decomposed corpse, he's still fighting Bernard Hopkins.



Link

No thanks.


Wow. That's pathetic. I'd be surprised if that PPV cracks 200K buys. Roy has a hard core fan base, so it should at least get over 100K, but it'll be hard pressed to do more than that. This one looks like a money-loser all around.
 

BGrif21125

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Jan 15, 2004
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Mosley-Berto postponed:

QUOTE
Overwhelmed by family loss in the Haiti earthquake, welterweight titleholder Andre Berto withdrew on Monday from his scheduled unification fight with Shane Mosley on Jan. 30 at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas.

Link

Mosley is suddenly available for a fight in early 2010. Hmmm.