Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

ElUno20

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Diaz looked in a ridiculous shape as opposed to the last 3 or 4 times I've seen him fight. He definately took the training serious and looks to be a lot bigger than Manny. As you noted Grif, the speed will be the determining factor. I can see Manny standing there and trading with him, because he's Manny and thats what he does, but I don't think that's the gameplan going in.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Well, a few rounds into that fight I wasn't sure if I was watching Pacquiao-Diaz, or a taped replay of Mayweather-Gatti. Other than Mayweather-Gatti, that's about as bad a mismatch as I've seen in a (supposed) world title fight, certainly in the last several years, maybe ever. It was pretty obvious from almost the very start of the fight that Diaz had absolutely no chance. It really never should have gone nine rounds.

It would be very interesting to see if Pacquiao will stick around to clean out the lightweight division. It's an excellent division right now, with Nate Campbell, Joel Casamayor, Juan Diaz and of course the imminent arrival of Pacquiao's nemesis, Juan Manuel Marquez. If Pacquiao can unify the title and dominate the division, I think you'd have to look at him as not only the current PFP #1, but he'd have to rank somewhere in the higher tiers of the all-time greats.

On the other hand, he could take the easy money and move up to 149 where he could wipe Ricky Hatton off the map. But I don't know who wants to see that? From a boxing fan's perspective, that's a useless fight. I'm kind of afraid that's where we're headed, though.
 

Sille Skrub

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Total domination from Pac tonight. It felt like a sparring session. Why did they let that one go so long?

Pacquiao is the best PFP fighter right now.

If Pacquiao can unify the title and dominate the division, I think you'd have to look at him as not only the current PFP #1, but he'd have to rank somewhere in the higher tiers of the all-time greats.
Wow, that would really be something.

In the post-fight interviews, it seemed like the Pac-man wanted no part of JMM. Lampley made an interesting point that JMM had won more rounds in his fights with Manny. Manny just won because of the KO's.

Hearing Diaz say Manny was too fast for him between rounds was a great and candid moment. I also loved Diaz's postfight interview. Sports needs more cursing in their postgame reaction.

Good stuff.
 

alamat86

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Hey guys! Check out this link (post-fight celebrations in Pacquiao's locker room with the NBA Champion Boston Celtics!)

[youtube]Je2HuLR9i-0[/youtube]
 

BGrif21125

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Great opening fight between Luevano and Santiago. I'm guessing we'll see a rematch on a future PPV undercard.

Joe Cortez is a good ref, but the Soto DQ was a joke. He didn't even land a real punch when the opponent was on his knees. Luckily for Soto, that was just a stay-busy fight, so it's not like the DQ loss hurts him in any way. Anyone who watched the fight knows what happened.

As for the main event, it went as expected for the most part. Just entirely too much speed from Pacquiao. All you had to do was look at their common opponent going in to know Diaz was going to be in trouble. Pacquiao destroyed an old, once-great Morales in 3 rounds; Diaz barely beat an even older and more faded Morales by a narrow one-point decision. Diaz is a big sturdy lightweight, which is why he was able to last for 9 rounds last night, otherwise he would have been gone much earlier. And as already mentioned, Diaz did supply an awesome postfight interview. I was hoping that Lampley would join the fun and start working f-bombs into his questions, but no such luck. Anyway, Pacquiao has clearly established himself as the #1 PFP fighter in the world, at least while Mayweather is on vacation.

As for where Pacquiao goes from here....
Casamayor, Marquez, Campbell, Guzman, Juan Diaz, and Katsidis are all fighting in early September. So they're all unavailable until 2009. At 140, Hatton is fighting Malignaggi in the fall, so the same goes for them in terms of availability. So it looks like Pacquiao is relegated to a stay-busy fight later this year. Two guys of quality who should be available are Jose Armando Santa Cruz and Humberto Soto. Santa Cruz is the guy who got robbed against Casamayor on the Cotto-Mosley undercard. Soto would move up from 130 for the chance at a big payday against Manny. He's also a Top Rank fighter (like Pac, like David Diaz), so the negotiation part would be pretty easy, since Arum would be making a deal with himself for all intents and purposes. Two other names I'll throw out there as options are Edwin Valero and Jorge Barrios.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Marquez beats Casamayor, Hatton beats Malignaggi, and Pac beats whomever his next opponent is. Pac will then have to decide between a third fight with Marquez at 135 or a fight with Hatton at 140. I can't blame Manny at all if he fought Hatton. That's a much bigger payday, and while Hatton is overrated, he is still the legit and unquestioned champ at 140, so it'd be a legit title fight. But without question, the third fight with Marquez would be the bigger challenge (I think you could easily rank Marquez as the #2 fighter in the world, ahead of Calzaghe). If Malignaggi can upset Hatton in the fall (entirely possible), then that makes the decision a lot easier, since in that case the one big payday is the third fight with Marquez.

If Guzman were to beat Campbell, he'd own 2 lightweight belts, and I think Guzman has the type of skills and style that could give Pacquiao a lot of trouble. But I'm not sure Arum would ever make that fight. Guzman is a dangerous opponent who doesn't bring a big payday. High risk/low reward for Pacquiao in that matchup.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Just as an aside, about last night's PPV broadcast, there was one refreshing thing. No Max Kellerman! Actually, no third announcer at all. Not sure why that was, but I thought it made for a much better, tighter, more focused broadcast. Lampley called the fights much more accurately and attentively, I thought, instead of wandering off on tangents as the HBO crew usually does, to the point where they end up treating knockdowns and other dramatic moments as irritating distractions from their own banter. But last night, they talked about the actual fights pretty much all the way through and I thought both Lampley and Steward were at their sharpest.

Also, Lampley proved himself a much better interviewer than Kellerman. Probably better than Merchant, too, at this stage. But it seems like they've permanently phased out Merchant now after all. That's unfortunate, buut if they phased out the third man in the crew altogether, I'd be happy. The "three-man booth" is always difficult to pull off in ANY sports broadcast. I've never understood why HBO feels they need to use it for boxing, which is a very difficult sport to call anyway.

UPDATE: I found HBO's explanation here:

• HBO DOWNSIZES -- ...

HBO spokesman Ray Stallone said it was a production decision.

"We determined that we could efficiently do this event and maintain quality by using Jim and Manny on the broadcast team," Stallone said. "Harold will join them in his unofficial judging role. There is a production savings, which helps for later in the year."
 

BigA27

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I was very impressed by Manny in this last fight. He was fluid, showed great footwork, and used his right better than anytime I think I have ever seen.
e landed
This fight did however raise a concern about Manny's power at lightweight. He battered the hell out of Diaz but it took a huge volume of punches to put him down. Early on Diaz seemed bothered by the speed but not at all by the power. It could be that Diaz is just a tough sumbitch but it took a massive volume of punches to finally put him down.
 

CrouchingTonyHiddenPena

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I was very impressed by Manny in this last fight. He was fluid, showed great footwork, and used his right better than anytime I think I have ever seen.
e landed
This fight did however raise a concern about Manny's power at lightweight. He battered the hell out of Diaz but it took a huge volume of punches to put him down. Early on Diaz seemed bothered by the speed but not at all by the power. It could be that Diaz is just a tough sumbitch but it took a massive volume of punches to finally put him down.
Diaz has been known as a fighter who "takes two to land one". I'm not surprised by the volume it took. I did not expect Diaz to be knocked out at any point as a result, so the fight went how I thought it would generally. Manny was spectacular though. I look forward to seeing him attempt a 140lb bout.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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By the way, here's Joe Cortez's bullshit "explanation" for his horrendous decision to disqualify Humberto Soto in the last prelim bout...


[youtube]YEI0qKLWxD4[/youtube]​

I mean, really, you're going on about "the safety of the fighters" when you just left a guy who was literally gushing blood from his eye and nose -- not to mention allegedly "concussed" from a so-called "illegal blow" -- lying on the canvas for five minutes without receiving medical help or attention from his corner while you held a freakin' committee meeting to make a decision that you shoiuld have made easily yourself. And then, to top it all of, you made the wrong decision. Like, totally and completely wrong. Not even close.

I've seen a lot of crazy stuff in boxing, but that one was right up there. Cortez at one time was a world-class referee. I even defended his much-criticized handling of the Hatton-Mayweather fight. But maybe refs, like fighters, can get old in a hurry. Hopefully the Nevada commission will gracefully ease him out of his job and send him on his merry way.
 

BGrif21125

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I was very impressed by Manny in this last fight. He was fluid, showed great footwork, and used his right better than anytime I think I have ever seen.
e landed
This fight did however raise a concern about Manny's power at lightweight. He battered the hell out of Diaz but it took a huge volume of punches to put him down. Early on Diaz seemed bothered by the speed but not at all by the power. It could be that Diaz is just a tough sumbitch but it took a massive volume of punches to finally put him down.
Ya, Pacquiao will probably never be a one-or-two-punch KO puncher ever again. He wasn't even really that way at 130 either, now that I think about it. I'm not even talking about his fights against HOFers with granite chins like Morales and Barrera, ....even guys like Jorge Solis and Oscar Larios were able to drag Pacquiao into the late rounds. Very very few fighters have ever been able to carry all their power past one or two weight classes. So he needs to rely more on quantity and accumulated punishment now.

One thing I noticed last night is how often Pacquiao was landing counter lefts. He never used to be able to do that. 3 or 4 years ago, every big punch Manny landed was a left cross that he threw while diving forward, you could go a whole fight without watching him counter, he always led. Last night, of the 15 or 20 cleanest punches that he landed, I'd say almost half were counter lefts where he stepped back and led Diaz right into the punch. That's a huge advancement in his boxing style. I've always been very skeptical of his ability to compete at 135 or higher, but now I'm forced to rethink that because of the changes he's made. He's never going to be a true technician like Marquez, but he's far from the raw puncher that he used to be.

I've seen a lot of crazy stuff in boxing, but that one was right up there. Cortez at one time was a world-class referee. I even defended his much-criticized handling of the Hatton-Mayweather fight. But maybe refs, like fighters, can get old in a hurry. Hopefully the Nevada commission will gracefully ease him out of his job and send him on his merry way.
I think Kenny Bayless has clearly surpassed Cortez as the top ref in Nevada. He worked both Oscar-Floyd and Pac-Marquez II, so fortunately it seems that Nevada feels the same way for the most part.

I wonder if Nevada gave out the top assignments last night to Drakulich and Cortez in order to spread the wealth around a little. I've always thought that Drakulich is a horrible ref, so maybe they purposely gave him a main event that figured to be one-sided from the get-go. Cotto-Margarito is definitely the biggest fight of the summer in Vegas, hopefully the state is saving their #1 guy (Bayless, IMO) for that fight.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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I think Kenny Bayless has clearly surpassed Cortez as the top ref in Nevada. He worked both Oscar-Floyd and Pac-Marquez II, so fortunately it seems that Nevada feels the same way for the most part.

I wonder if Nevada gave out the top assignments last night to Drakulich and Cortez in order to spread the wealth around a little. I've always thought that Drakulich is a horrible ref, so maybe they purposely gave him a main event that figured to be one-sided from the get-go. Cotto-Margarito is definitely the biggest fight of the summer in Vegas, hopefully the state is saving their #1 guy (Bayless, IMO) for that fight.
Final note on that whole mess, the WBC has refused to award Lorezo the "interim" title that was on the line in last night's fight. Due to Cortez's terrible decision, the WBC is recognizing the fight as a draw and ordering a rematch.

Well, I guess some credit goes to the WBC for at least getting it half right. They should definitely throw out the DQ. But a draw with an "immediate rematch"? What's the point? It wasn't exactly a close fight. As Soto said to Lampley, in a rematch, he'll knock Lorenzo's head off. Who needs to see that?
 

inter tatters

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Longtime British Fight Journalist Steve Bunce, commentating on Setanta TV over here, reckoned Cortez's decision was the worst he had EVER seen in a title fight and he'd be surprised is Jose Sulaiman ever allowed Cortez to ref a WBC title fight again. To say the guy was livid would be an understatement, he was ranting for a good 5 minutes about what a disgrace Cortez had been. Then after the 'bullshit' excuse given by Cortez, his head nearly exploded as he had another good 5 minute blast. The anchor Guy finally had to get onto the next topic of conversation to stop him swearing. Hilarious television, that I hope I can find a clip of for you guys! :)
 

ElUno20

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I agree with the Lorenzo/Soto decision. He landed a punch while he was on his knees. Too many fighters keep punching when guys are already down. It's not hard to realize in the "heat of battle" when a guy goes from being eye level to 2 feet tall. I don't see what all the uproar was about. Glancing punch or not, he threw a punch when the guy was CLEARLY on his knees. For me to ignore that would be to assume that Soto is a completely f'n retard and has no perception of height when his opponent lowers himself to waist level.

And has anything been signed between Paulie and Hatton? Is anything official? If not, he should take the Manny fight instead.
 

BGrif21125

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I agree with the Lorenzo/Soto decision. He landed a punch while he was on his knees. Too many fighters keep punching when guys are already down. It's not hard to realize in the "heat of battle" when a guy goes from being eye level to 2 feet tall. I don't see what all the uproar was about. Glancing punch or not, he threw a punch when the guy was CLEARLY on his knees. For me to ignore that would be to assume that Soto is a completely f'n retard and has no perception of height when his opponent lowers himself to waist level.
Uno, I think these are the 2 issues that people have with the DQ:
1. Yes, he hit him while down, but it was a grazing blow at best. The blow was worthy of a point deduction, but not a DQ. If Soto had reared back and landed a flush uppercut to Lorenzo's chin while he was down, it'd be a different story.
2. The doctor stopped the fight, and the reason he appeared to stop it is because Lorenzo's face was a bloody mess. Those cuts weren't caused by the grazing blow to the back of the head, those cuts were from the tattooing he was taking the whole fight up to that point.

At least that's my take. I don't think this is a huge scandal, because it wasn't that important of a fight (I know it was for some interim belt, but I mostly ignore sanctioning body belts these days), it was just for Soto to get rounds in. But the decision by Cortez in itself was the wrong one.

And has anything been signed between Paulie and Hatton? Is anything official? If not, he should take the Manny fight instead.
I believe that everything has been signed by the fighters, it's simply a matter of finalizing the date/venue. I think it's in October or November, and the venue will be either MSG or Vegas. I'm hoping for MSG, since I'd like to make it to a fight this year and NYC is my best bet.
 

letsgosox

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Take it with a grain of salt, but the rumor is that Arum is trying to finalize a deal for Pacquiao to face Edwin Valero next.

this was a fight that I would of drooled over 2 years ago. But Valero is still way to green, and Manny has improved his game by leaps and bounds. I think Manny wins by KO in 6.
 

ElUno20

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Great. More "competition" for Manny. This guy gets more handjobs for looking good against aging fighter or bums than anyone I've ever seen.
 

BGrif21125

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So, ESPN is doing a "Best Fighter from Each State" List. I like lists and I'm a geography dork, so I actually find this type of thing interesting. They're doing it by where a fighter made his name, not by actual birthplace, which I think makes it somewhat confusing, but oh well (so for example, Hagler is considered a MA fighter, not NJ).

Was trying to do the New England/Northeast states in my head.
MA- Marciano (although I'm tempted to say Hagler)
CT- Pep
RI- Pazienza
I can't even think of anyone significant from ME, NH, or VT.
NY- Robinson
PA- Holmes (Greb is just too old for my cutoff, fwiw)
MD- Leonard
VA- Whitaker

Other obvious ones:
MI- Louis
KY- Ali
GA- Holyfield
FL- Jones

A time-waster, at the very least.
 

letsgosox

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Steve Kim from maxboxing.com is reporting that there is serious talks going on about Pavlik fighting Paul Williams. Paul would be moving up two weight classes for this fight. That would be a fun fight but I think eventually Pavlik takes him out in 5 or 6 rounds.
 

BGrif21125

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Steve Kim from maxboxing.com is reporting that there is serious talks going on about Pavlik fighting Paul Williams. Paul would be moving up two weight classes for this fight. That would be a fun fight but I think eventually Pavlik takes him out in 5 or 6 rounds.
I'd love to see that matchup, but I don't see how Williams' handlers ever agree to that one. Like you said, Williams would get knocked out, and Paul is in a division where there will be chances to make good money, because there are so many great fighters at 147.

Btw, Holt-Torres II on Showtime tonight.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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I'd love to see that matchup, but I don't see how Williams' handlers ever agree to that one. Like you said, Williams would get knocked out, and Paul is in a division where there will be chances to make good money, because there are so many great fighters at 147.

Btw, Holt-Torres II on Showtime tonight.
The latest that I've read, however, is that (at least according to Bob Arum) Williams priced himself out of that bout. Pavlik is now without an opponent for the fall, unless he goes back to the rather uninspiring Marco Antonio Rubio bout that was once discussed. The Arthur Abraham fight needs some buildup -- Abraham is still a mostly unknown name to US fight fans. Sergio Mora is too tied up with other hassles -- Vernon Forrest is pressing his rematch clause and he has a mandatory defense of his belt at 154 if he cares to keep that title. Even John Duddy has decided to leave the middleweight division and take a shot at one of the 154-pound belts, apparently.

It's too bad that one of the most marketable and exciting American fighters to come along in a long time can't seem to get a fight and risks dropping off the radar.

UPDATE: So, like, Holy Crap! Did anyone else see the Holt-Torres fight last night? If not, I STRONGLY recommend catching one of Showtime's numerous rebroadcasts throughout the week. It won't take up too much of your time. The whole fight lasted only 61 seconds! But that minute-plus had more drama and action than 90 percent of the fights you're likely to see this year.

Actually, screw the rebroadcast. Here's the whole fight. This is Top Rank's international broadcast. Enjoy.

[youtube]0WeuissnsCI[/youtube]​




Three knockdowns, two controversies and one of the most devastating KO's of the year -- shoot, the decade! -- all packed into 61 seconds. The fact that it was a vicious albeit clearly accidental headbutt that put Torres on queer street took a little of the luster off Holt's brutal KO (I was seriously worried for a few moments that Torres was dead), but I guess the fact that Torres clocked Holt earlier with a pretty solid left hook while Holt was getting up from a knockdown kind of balances the ledger.

Due to the headbutt, people are already clamoring for Holt-Torres III. But I don't know. When a guy suffers a devastating knockout like the one that Torres suffered, they're rarely the same again. But who knows? Torres certainly proved -- again -- that he's capable of putting Holt on his ass. So maybe once Torres takes time to recover, they will do it again.
 

BGrif21125

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Definitely one of the craziest fights ever.

I too thought Torres may have been seriously hurt, a broken neck, something like that...

At the very least, a fighter who gets KOd like that should take 6 or 8 months off with no boxing whatsoever. Maybe far down the road they can do it again.

It'd be nice to see Holt get a shot at either Timothy Bradley (the guy who beat Witter), or the winner of Hatton-Malignaggi. If Hatton is the winner, I assume he'll be out in search of a bigger name opponent like Pacquiao, but if Malignaggi wins, then Malignaggi-Holt would be a nice fight. I believe Holt is from NJ, and Paulie is from Brooklyn, so a Holt-Malignaggi fight could do decent business in NYC or Atlantic City.

Onto next week... hopefully Wlad can avoid putting me to sleep this time.
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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The Pacquiao-Diaz fight drew about 250,000 PPV buys, according to Bob Arum who called the total "okay, but not great."

I don't know what Arum was expecting. Maybe he just figures that all he has to do is put Manny Pacquiao on a PPV and every Filipino in the world will buy it. Apparently, even Pac-man's hardcore fans care about the quality of opposition for their $49.95.

That said, I think 250K is a pretty good number for any fight involving David Diaz, who even though he held a belt, was (is) really about an ESPN level fighter.
 

shawnrbu

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Thank you both. I thought possibly Morales would have been a bigger draw for that fight, but I suppose a lot of Morales fans couldn't get too pumped for the fight following the way the third one concluded with Pacquiao. Scanning all those numbers, it is almost hard to believe the De La Hoya/Mayweather number is real. Almost 2.5 times the buys of the highest UFC and more than tripling WrestleMania. Where did all those buyers come from? I'd have been interested to see how the rematch would have done more so than what would have happened in the actual fight. Would have been interesting to see if they could have done 1/2 as many buys (1.2 million) for the second time around since the fight last May was on the mild side.
 

BGrif21125

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I'd have been interested to see how the rematch would have done more so than what would have happened in the actual fight. Would have been interesting to see if they could have done 1/2 as many buys (1.2 million) for the second time around since the fight last May was on the mild side.
I think the rematch would have done around 1.5 million buys. Not nearly as many as the first fight, but still enough to be the 2nd highest non-heavyweight fight ever. (Oscar-Tito did 1.4 million in '99.)
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Nice knockout by Klitschko to at least kind of redeem another unimpressive performance. If faces told the story in a boxing match, Thompson would have won that thing tonight. Other than his one small cut, his face was unmarked while Klitschko had a bad cut, a pretty big shinera nd a bunch of other scrapes and facial bruises. If Klitschko fights that fight against a guy with any punching power, he gets his ass laid out.

As it was, Thompson did his best and acquitted himself pretty honorably, but by the sixth or seventh round he was looking for the way out. Except for a couple of flurries, he did nothing in the second half of the fight but play defense. When he got tired and started to show holes in his defense, Klitschko bombed him out of there. A one-punch KO.

The weirdest thing was that in his corner, Thompson repeatedly begged his trainers to "trust me," as if he had some secret plan. I think he harbored some fantasy of catching Klitschko with a Mayweather-Hatton style "check hook." But Wlad is just too cautious to let that happen.

Well, overall a fairly decent heavyweight fight. Nothing too memorable. But entertaining enough, with an exclamation point for an ending. Definitely not a stinker, but we're still waiting for Klitschko to fight that career-defining fight. I just don't know who's going to give it to him.
 

BGrif21125

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Definitely not a stinker, but we're still waiting for Klitschko to fight that career-defining fight. I just don't know who's going to give it to him.
The only fights out there for Wlad that can generate any buzz or excitement are a rematch with Peter or a fight down the line with Haye. Not sure either of those is career-defining, but they'd be interesting at least. Other than that, the heavyweight division is just one stiff after another.

I normally don't pay a ton of attention to the heavyweights, but I find myself really rooting for Haye to have some success and become a legit contender. He has the style/personality to bring some interest back.

On another heavyweight note, Toney-Rahman II is live on FSN on Wednesday night.
 

Lanternjaw

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I've seen Chris Arreola fight a few times and he seems like the kind of brawler with a heavy hand who could give Vlad some trouble. But before you could consider him a legit contender he'd have to get himself into top shape and take down a stepping stone type of fighter... somebody like Shannon Briggs or the like. He handled Philly's Chazz Witherspoon with ease in his last fight, I believe knocking him out in the 3rd round. Serious power on that kid but I'm not sure his flab would carry him into the deeper rounds.
 

letsgosox

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I don't know how I feel about Hopkins/Pavlik yet. It should be an interesting fight but as much as I like Pavlik I don't think I'll be spending $50 to see Hopkins fight. And with Hopkins dreadful performance against Calzaghe last time out I don't think many other people will either.
 

BGrif21125

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I don't know how I feel about Hopkins/Pavlik yet.
On one hand, I think you have to give Pavlik credit for taking the fight. With all the trouble he's had getting an opponent, he could've taken the easy route and fought Gary Lockett 2.0 (i.e... a stiff) in the fall, and waited for the Abraham fight to come around next year. Instead, he's taking a risk and fighting a notable opponent. Hopkins may be 70 years old, but he's still a very good fighter and a much more dangerous opponent than most guys half his age.

On the other hand, it's a little disappointing to see Pavlik fighting another non-title fight. For the most part I completely ignore belts these days because they've become such a joke, but the middleweight title is one belt that still means something, and I'd like to see Pavlik settle in at 160 and attempt to put together a long streak of defenses a la Monzon/Hagler/Hopkins.

In the end, I think it's an interesting matchup. The current middlweight champ who's known for his explosive punching versus the best middleweight champ of the last 20 years who's known for his defense and granite chin. Interesting contrast in age and style.

P.S. Yuriorkis Gamboa is on FNF tonight.
 

ElUno20

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Gamboa looked insane. KO of the year candidate. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fz-3fo-yYP4

I'm the biggest Bhop fan there is but he is out of his mind. Pavlik is as active as Calzaghe but hits about 10x harder. I don't know how this doesn't end in a KO. Bhop has the biggest balls in boxing.

BTW, the talks are real.

Pacman talks Oscar

Manny Pacquiao believes trainer Freddie Roach that he could beat an aging Oscar de la Hoya.

As a result, Pacquiao said he is ready to fight the Golden Boy if the terms are right on Dec. 6.

In an exclusive interview in his suite at the Waterfront Hotel in Cebu, Pacquiao said he believes what Roach said during an interview with The Main Event panelists Dennis Principe and this writer over dzSR Sports Radio.

“I believe him [Roach]because he trained De la Hoya for his showdown with Floyd Mayweather Jr.,” said Pacquiao. “If he didn’t train De la Hoya, I will not believe him immediately.”

In the Sports Radio interview, Roach revealed that Pacquiao can knock De la Hoya out. “He [De la Hoya] is the bigger guy and does have a good left hook, but he is not the same Oscar of a few years ago. He is just having trouble pulling the trigger. He is a little slower. If Steve Forbes can hit him as easily as he did, I know Pacquiao will knock him out.
 

shawnrbu

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If Manny knocks Oscar out (which has only been done once at a weight everybody agrees was too high for Oscar), does that cement him as a greater fighter than the likes of Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones and Holyfield based on the quality of his wins?
 

Naehring11

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If Manny knocks Oscar out (which has only been done once at a weight everybody agrees was too high for Oscar), does that cement him as a greater fighter than the likes of Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones and Holyfield based on the quality of his wins?

I would have to say Yes, without question. I think he is in that company now. Pacquiao started out at 106 lbs and won his first title at 112. A lot of his big wins were against legends on the downside of their career, but still impressive.

Having said that, I don't think he'll knock De La Hoya out. I'm not even sure he'll be able to hurt him at that weight. I do think he'll be able to win a decision though.
 

eddiew112

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If Manny knocks Oscar out (which has only been done once at a weight everybody agrees was too high for Oscar), does that cement him as a greater fighter than the likes of Mayweather, Hopkins, Jones and Holyfield based on the quality of his wins?
I don't think so. Floyd has faced very good opponents in the ring (Manfredy, Genaro Hernandez, JLC, Diego Corrales, Sharmba Mitchell, Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, Corley, Judah, DLH, and Hatton), he has just made them all look bad. That, along with his superior skills, makes him a greater fighter than Manny Pacquiao.

Manny may have the better quality of opponents than RJJ, but Roy's top all-time talent and his long period of dominance put him over the top. That same dominace puts Bernard over Manny, IMO.

I think there is no question that Manny is a greater fighter than Evander Holyfield, however.
 

BGrif21125

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I don't think so. Floyd has faced very good opponents in the ring (Manfredy, Genaro Hernandez, JLC, Diego Corrales, Sharmba Mitchell, Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, Corley, Judah, DLH, and Hatton), he has just made them all look bad. That, along with his superior skills, makes him a greater fighter than Manny Pacquiao.

Manny may have the better quality of opponents than RJJ, but Roy's top all-time talent and his long period of dominance put him over the top. That same dominace puts Bernard over Manny, IMO.

I think there is no question that Manny is a greater fighter than Evander Holyfield, however.
I agree with this for the most part. I think I will end up considering Pacquiao a greater fighter than Hopkins, however I doubt he ends up higher than Mayweather or Jones.

Jones hardly lost a round for about 10 years straight. Mayweather is an undefeated multi-division champion whose resume is still incomplete (there's no way he stays retired). Pacquiao, despite being a great fighter, did clearly lose to Morales in their first fight, and one could make an argument that he lost both Marquez fights (I thought he won both by one point).
 

eddiew112

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Calzaghe - Jones Jr. Fight Postponed

Seems like the familiar problems with his hands has forced Calzaghe to postpone September's fight. Without knowing the extent of the damage it's difficult to tell but this might signal the end of Joe's career.

edit:calendar correction
Jesus Joe, double tape the damn wrist and go out there and give us a show. Supposedly they are going to reschedule it for a date in November, though...
 

BGrif21125

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Supposedly they are going to reschedule it for a date in November, though...
Ya, if the injury isn't too bad, I'm thinking November 15th might be the day they reschedule it for. They could have the PPV, then replay the fight the next week before the Hatton-Malignaggi fight, which is on regular HBO on the 22nd.

In some good scheduling news, Dawson-Tarver is on for Oct. 11 on Showtime, and Mosley-Mayorga has been shifted to free HBO, it's not a PPV anymore.
 

inter tatters

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Gary 'The Rocket' Lockett - the man with the best gurn in Boxing, but no real talent to back it up (last seen flat on his back against Kelly Pavlik) - has given an incredibly honest and brutal assessment of the fight game in his eyes. I just wish other fighters would be so honest...

Lockett considers retirement
 

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket

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Ya, if the injury isn't too bad, I'm thinking November 15th might be the day they reschedule it for. They could have the PPV, then replay the fight the next week before the Hatton-Malignaggi fight, which is on regular HBO on the 22nd.

In some good scheduling news, Dawson-Tarver is on for Oct. 11 on Showtime, and Mosley-Mayorga has been shifted to free HBO, it's not a PPV anymore.
Nov. 8 is the date I've read, at MSG. They've just announced Taylor-Lacy for Nov. 15 on "free" HBO, so presumably the Calzaghe-Jones replay will be on that broadcast.

If the way Lacy performed against a game but otherwise unremarkable journeyman this week on "Wednesday Night Fights" is any indication, Taylor is s going to give him a Calzaghe-like beat down.
 

shawnrbu

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Was it a punch or headbutt that caused the cut above Judah's right eye? The replays weren't entirely conclusive. Could that punch have caused a cut that severe? I'm thinking the clash of heads caused the cut and then the uppercut opened it up further. Pretty good fight for eight rounds. I thought Clottey was stronger and just a bit better tonight. Zab boxed well for a good portion of the fight. It has to be a bitter pill for Zab that he lost the fight based on a round that lasted something like 75 to 90 seconds (I have to imagine Clottey won Round 9 on all the scorecards).

Did anybody else think Zab failed the Doc's "How many fingers am I holding up?" test on purpose?

No HBO boxing for five weeks? That's going to be rough. Going to have to dig into the DVD collection.

Where's Larry Merchant? Has he been heard from since the Oscar/Forbes fight?
 

allaboutthesox

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Was it a punch or headbutt that caused the cut above Judah's right eye? The replays weren't entirely conclusive. Could that punch have caused a cut that severe? I'm thinking the clash of heads caused the cut and then the uppercut opened it up further. Pretty good fight for eight rounds. I thought Clottey was stronger and just a bit better tonight. Zab boxed well for a good portion of the fight. It has to be a bitter pill for Zab that he lost the fight based on a round that lasted something like 75 to 90 seconds (I have to imagine Clottey won Round 9 on all the scorecards).

Did anybody else think Zab failed the Doc's "How many fingers am I holding up?" test on purpose?

No HBO boxing for five weeks? That's going to be rough. Going to have to dig into the DVD collection.

Where's Larry Merchant? Has he been heard from since the Oscar/Forbes fight?
It was the left uppercut that really opened the cut over Judah's eye. One thing the commentators mentioned was the reaction one got from Judah after being hit with the left uppercut. The doctor looked at Judah's eye and removed the blood and cleared Judah to fight, but Juday complained about a lack of vision. The doctor conducted 3 eye tests in which Judah failed to recognize the numbers the ring side doctor put up.

I believe it was mentioned in this thread or another that Merchant is going to be slowly phased out I think as they work Kellerman into more of the HBO fights.