Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread
- Thread starter BGrif21125
- Start date
10-9
9-10
10-8
7-10
10-9
46- 46
After 5
56- 55 Fury After 6
66-64
Wilder looks ready to go but he has heart
76-73 Fury after 8
86-82 Fury
Wilder needs to at least knock him down to get back in this
96-90 Fury
9-10
10-8
7-10
10-9
46- 46
After 5
56- 55 Fury After 6
66-64
Wilder looks ready to go but he has heart
76-73 Fury after 8
86-82 Fury
Wilder needs to at least knock him down to get back in this
96-90 Fury
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I don’t agree for this fight. He almost did knock him out and Fury could make 250 but he doesn’t need to.
Wilder was dead on his feet for the last three rounds and kept throwing bombs. Hell of a chin.
The short straight he hit fury with, anyone Wilder's size or down is in a hospital. Not getting up 6 seconds later.
I dont think the 25 pounds of fat kept him up. The man is really fat. I don’t think it’s the difference in this fight. Wilder isn’t small
You're dramatically understating the importance of weight in boxing. It's why guys squeeze down to steal belts in lower divisions and why top 10 guys routinely look like shit or get upset when moving up.
The concept we're discussing is why pacquiao walks on water. He went UP and won at every level.
I mean, maybe that's generally true, but it seems like a weird criticism of Fury. The man has real skills, and obviously not just with his hands, but how he moves and uses that size. He was the bigger man and the most skilled one.
No way is Fury a garbage fat guy.
No way is Fury a garbage fat guy.
It’s much different when dudes are sucking weight vs the situation where a fat guy is going up against a ripped guy. Does the size play a role, sure. You are acting like that is what determined the outcome and I don’t agree.
Blame it on weight if you want, but the last 4 rounds, Wilder was gassed and just throwing wildly. If he had the stamina and was able to be precise with his hooks, he could have taken that fight.
Credit to Fury for leveraging the weight to his advantage. He leaned all over Wilder and smothered him. Kind of a Nurmagomedov move. He gassed Wilder with his size, and Wilder couldnt make him pay for it enough early.
I was surprised they let this go after the penultimate knockdown. Wilder was clearly dead on his feet. Lots of credit to him, but Fury earned the win.
Credit to Fury for leveraging the weight to his advantage. He leaned all over Wilder and smothered him. Kind of a Nurmagomedov move. He gassed Wilder with his size, and Wilder couldnt make him pay for it enough early.
I was surprised they let this go after the penultimate knockdown. Wilder was clearly dead on his feet. Lots of credit to him, but Fury earned the win.
I mean he was throwing wildly after round 1. Seemed like he had a plan and then just abandoned it to his usual throw the right hand.
Agreed on the letting it go. Dead on his feet the last few rounds but still getting shots in. Hell of a chin.
Agreed on the letting it go. Dead on his feet the last few rounds but still getting shots in. Hell of a chin.
Yes, Fury has been leaning all over him the last couple of fights. At the same time, Wilder invites it. His lack of stamina causes him to bend over into Fury which enables it.
Sometimes you have to take a man at his word. Fury always says he was ‘born for this shit.’ From what I’ve seen, he’s speaking some unadulterated truth.
Dude he was fighting a guy who had 30 pounds on him just on the scales. On fight night that was probably 50. In no other division is that just normal.
I just know for me, it reminded me why ive had the heavyweight division on ignore for years. It's a clown show. Fury figured it out. For all the ballwashing, he hasnt boxed since the first fight, the two bums, and then the two Wilder fights , he just came in so big that he could eat any shot and wear anyone down.
Next will probably be usyk or joshua that'll he'll push at least 70-80 advantage on. I mean look at loma and Lopez. Loma is an all timer and skill wise, Lopez is nowhere on his level but the weight (and that was probably around 15-20 fight night not on the scales) was too much.
I just know for me personally, I'm not watching hw again. It's just clown boxing to me.
And for all the wilder was gassed after rd 1, yeah, that's what happens punching against that difference in weight. Duh
I don't want to speak for ElUno, but nowhere does he discredit Fury's skills or boxing. With that big a size difference, it just doesn't matter how good or well-trained Wilder is, he simply is never going to beat a man of that size who also has ability. Fury ate shots that would send most grown men to the hospital and basically sat his ass on Wilder because there wasn't much Wilder could do to keep him off, stylistically. Valuev was a giant with no discernible boxing skills at that level.
I don't get the push back from many of you here about ElUno's overarching point. Heavyweight fights just aren't a fair draw when one man weighs 20%+ more than the other - this should not be disputable. I also agree that it makes the division much less interesting as a result. It would be like a prime Pacquiao going against a prime Bernard Hopkins.
Edit - Most of my post wasn't directed at you, there is a simple answer for why Valuev was never much more than a sideshow. And I felt like people are piling on about how great Fury while missing the main point of ElUno's posts.
Are you talking about body shots or head shots as well? I'm coming from a place of ignorance on this subject. I've heard this before and would like to make sense of it. Body shots make complete sense to me - there's more fat and muscle covering up the vitals and more fat preventing your muscles themselves from getting bruised. But what difference would being larger make with regard to eating head shots? I mean, there could be marginal increase in neck strength to absorb blows and marginal additional mass in the head, but I can't imagine that would make that much of a difference when faced with a full-force Wilder blow to the head.
Marciano already covered it, but a bigger man is simply able to withstand larger forces than a smaller man can throw at him. Otherwise there would be no, or less, weight classes. Fat around the midsection, I would imagine, definitely "protects" organs in this case (hopefully no doctor is able to easily refute that and make me look silly). But the goal of striking the head is essentially to force the brain to shake inside your skull so hard it causes trauma. A concussion/knockout. It sounds brutal, and it is, but that's the end goal of almost every punch thrown by someone who doesn't want a fight to go the distance. Being heavier (or a naturally larger man), no matter where the weight is held, allows a boxer to "absorb" more punishment from another boxer. There's an old adage for getting stronger, "Weight moves weight." Sorry if this isn't helping, I wish I knew how to better explain.
None of this even includes the ripple effects being heavier has from the time the bell rings in Round 1. Tyson can lean against him causing Wilder to tire faster; Wilder's shots don't have the same effect and so he becomes hesitant to throw them and thus deviates slightly from his normal style and tires out more quickly (or tries putting more on his shots to compensate, which is also exhausting); Fury's shots have more power behind them which obviously has a deleterious effect on Wilder; the mindf*ck of not being able to "hurt" another fighter enough to end a fight when you hit him with everything you can. All of those are exhausting, and, compounding over 11 rounds, Wilder's performance was *incredibly* impressive. He showed balls and heart and incredible will.
Yeah I get that. It’s why I mentioned neck size and I guess slightly greater mass of the head. Beyond that, I dont understand how having more weight in midsection helps prevent the head from snapping.
Wilder has floored this guy many times, it isn’t like Fury’s donut and beer diet is letting him walk Wilder down without facing consequences. Fury is a way better boxer and the only reason these fights are dramatic is because Wilder has the power to knock Fury out.
How good an athlete is Fury? When I heard how heavy he was coming in I thought he might be totally gassed by mid fight if he didn't get Wilder out of there quickly.
I don’t have a definitive answer but I have an intuition from my experience. I am not a great athlete but I can spar indefinite rounds of BJJ with guys my level and below (Truly high level guys can exhaust me for sure). I train with some sick athletes and they say “wow you are in good shape” I’m not at all. The reason I can do this is because I am supremely relaxed while sparring. Oddly, I train with this Eastern Euro Sambo guy sometimes and I get a little tired even though he is not that great and it is because he is trying set ups that are a little different stylistically than what I am used to so the mental aspect causes fatigue.
When I watch Fury I see a guy that is super relaxed and nothing surprises him. He is not holding any tension in his body. Wilder is a better athlete by almost any metric but he is blowing so much energy even when he throws a jab.
Floyd is a great athlete but since he is so relaxed could probably fight 25 rounds+. Other fighters are great athletes but you can see they are putting out a lot of cardiac output.
Tyson Fury is a tremendous athlete. His reflexes and movement are incredible. The relaxation point is very true too. First thing I’d try to teach fighters is to stay relaxed. Burns way less energy.
This is a good point and shows me that I internally define athleticism in a way that I should broaden. I always think something like how bad would I lose to this guy in the decathlon. But maybe there are other elements. I think I put movement and even reflexes as skill based but maybe they are not.
Some people are only ever going to be able to move so well. I put things like flexibility, peripheral vision and the like under athleticism too.
Those are great points, especially with regard to being relaxed and not carrying a lot of tension in your body. It was easy to see from his ring walk for that fight that he was feeling good. Maybe it is easier to have a strong mental game when you are that damn big and also skilled.
Thanks guys.
Thanks guys.
These last few pages have been a fantastic conversation to read. Many thanks to all of you for deepening my knowledge and appreciation of the sport.