Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

Royal Reader

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Guys,

I quite enjoy boxing but don't know a lot about it. One thing I wanted to do during lock down when not at work is to watch 20 or so all time great fights. Can any of y'all who know more than me give me some recommendations?
 

Montana Fan

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I'll give you two that I enjoyed though only one might qualify for a top fight. John "the Beast" Mugabi versus Marvin Hagler. Another was Sugar Ray Leonard versus Floyd Mayweather Sr. on short notice.
 

EvilEmpire

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I know there are a ton of great fights out there and these probably aren't among them, but I enjoyed the Vinny Pazienza/Greg Haugen trilogy a long time ago.
 

Marciano490

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Off the top of my head:

Dempsey v Willard
Robinson v Maxim
Castillo v Corrales*
Oscar v Mayweather
Hagler-Hearns*
Ward v Gatti (all 3)*
Fury v Wilder 1
Ali-Frazier 1&3
Foreman v Lyle*
Hagler v Leonard (but turn it off before the cards are read)
Bowe v Holyfield (all 3)
Holyfield v Qawi*
Pacquaio v Morales (all 3)
Vazquez v Marquez*
Morales v Barrera*
Pep v Sadler
Pryor v Arguello*
Chavez v Taylor*
Mosley v Forrest
Trinidad v Vargas*
Taylor v Hopkins
Martinez v Williams 2
Williams v Margarito
 
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bankshot1

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Burt Lancaster repeats "down goes Ali" as the replay of the 15th round knock-down. and is very reminiscent of Cossell's famous call of "down goes Frazier" when Forman pummelled Frazier, but 2 years after Lancaster's off the cuff remarks.
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

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I don't understand why people are so excited about Tyson looking good while hitting pads. At 53 years old, his reflexes and timing are shot and he would be gassed after 1-2 rounds. In his last two fights against two journeyman fighters, he looked terrible and that was 15 years ago. Any current, decent heavyweight could easily knockout Tyson.

There is no possible fight that is appealing to me. Assuming he would trying to win, knocking out a crappy young fighter, being knocked out by a good one or facing off against another old guy are not fights I want to see. A bare-knuckle fight would be obscene and I believe the $20M offer to Tyson was not legit and only for publicity.

BTW, I just finished the Unbeaten. Marciano was a good guy, but with some flaws. Of course, that can be said about many people.
 

Marciano490

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I’d definitely watch a Holyfield fight or the random rugby guys. I’ll watch the way I watch all sports, at home for free somehow.
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

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I’d definitely watch a Holyfield fight or the random rugby guys. I’ll watch the way I watch all sports, at home for free somehow.
For the Tyson/Hollyfield fight to happen, it would have to be anticipated that people will pay to see the fight. Neither of them could beat a decent current professional heavyweight, so it would be an exhibition fought at a very low level of skill. The winner would be a function of who has has aged better and/or stayed in shape. It would be meaningless as to who would win and not worth the risk of injury.
 

Marciano490

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For the Tyson/Hollyfield fight to happen, it would have to be anticipated that people will pay to see the fight. Neither of them could beat a decent current professional heavyweight, so it would be an exhibition fought at a very low level of skill. The winner would be a function of who has has aged better and/or stayed in shape. It would be meaningless as to who would win and not worth the risk of injury.
So, like Senior PGA tour?
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

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I don't follow the Champions Tour, but golf is a sport where people can play decently in their 50s and they don't punch each other.

What did you think about the McGregor/Mayweather fight? As a reasonably knowledgeble boxing fan I knew it would be a joke. Even if McGregor has some natural talent for boxing, he is no match for someone with 20+ years of specific training.
 

Marciano490

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I have an ignorant question -- did Tyson ever beat anyone great? I know he beat an old Larry Holmes. Was Spinks legit? Biggs?

What's his best win?
Great no. Very good, maybe. Spinks was a very good fighter but undersized. If you watch his first like 20 fights, it’s clear everyone is falling into his trap - going straight back to the ropes where they have no room to maneuver. Holyfield had the right strategy with jabs and clinches, but obviously he had to take the punishment.

He ducked Lewis as an amateur and pro and when they finally fought, Mike was past his prime and it was a blowout.

The “have they ever fought anyone good” question is always tough. You could play the same game with Dempsey, Joe Louis, Marciano, Klitschkos, Lennox, etc.
 

djbayko

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When is this Tyson / Holyfield match supposed to take place if it happens anyways? I can’t imagine these guys want to be training for a fight for a year or more at their age. So is this supposed to be a pandemic thing where they only get money from PPV and no gate money from a crowd?
 

Marciano490

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When is this Tyson / Holyfield match supposed to take place if it happens anyways? I can’t imagine these guys want to be training for a fight for a year or more at their age. So is this supposed to be a pandemic thing where they only get money from PPV and no gate money from a crowd?
I thought I saw Dubai or KSA, but can’t remember where.
 

Kliq

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I thought I saw Dubai or KSA, but can’t remember where.
KSA will pay major acts millions of dollars to come and host their events in the country, so it would make sense. They pay WWE $50 million or so twice a year for shows, so I imagine Tyson vs Holyfield could cash in big if they can put the fight together.
 

Marciano490

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KSA will pay major acts millions of dollars to come and host their events in the country, so it would make sense. They pay WWE $50 million or so twice a year for shows, so I imagine Tyson vs Holyfield could cash in big if they can put the fight together.
It also seems from what I’ve casually observed, that they prefer nostalgia acts over current stars. Like Holyfield v Tyson might be a bigger get in a way for the Saudis than Fury v Wilder 3.
 

Kliq

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It also seems from what I’ve casually observed, that they prefer nostalgia acts over current stars. Like Holyfield v Tyson might be a bigger get in a way for the Saudis than Fury v Wilder 3.
Maybe, but they also just hosted the Joshua vs Ruiz II in December.

My understanding is that it is all part of the MBS' Saudi Arabia 2030 vision, which is an attempt to make the economy less reliant on the oil industry, by investing heavily in tourism and recreation. They pay top dollar to bring in top music acts and sporting events with the idea trying to think about Saudi Arabia differently. Not sure about the other events, but the first WWE show contained a healthy amount of propaganda talking about how great MBS is, and how great Saudi Arabia is now.

View: https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1050139233732710401?s=20
 

nolasoxfan

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Pretty even fight so far. Loma coming on strong in latter rounds. Lopez controlled early rounds.
Round 12 will likely determine the fight. Gut check time.

edit: Lopez lands a couple of nice lefts in the 12th, and may have won this fight. Going to cards.

I’d score it a draw. Neither of them did enough to win and be undisputed champ IMHO.

Wow. The scores were crap. Lopez wins unanimous decision, with one judge scoring 119-109. Not sure what fight she was watching.
 
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EvilEmpire

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I know that is a question for ElUno20, 'cause he knows his shit and I surely don't. But my impression is that is is hard to watch boxing sometimes. I know I don't understand even the smallest part of the complexity of it all, but I don't think I should walk away from a fight feeling like the judges don't either.

A narrow decision in favor of Lopez wouldn't seem unreasonable to an untrained eye like mine, but those scorecards seem terrible. Loma's start seemed even slower than usual, maybe a bit tentative rather than deliberative. But then he came on strong and seemed (mostly) in control from the middle rounds on. Lopez looked better in the 12th.

I'm not sure what to think.
 

ninjacornelius

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A narrow decision in favor of Lopez wouldn't seem unreasonable to an untrained eye like mine, but those scorecards seem terrible. Loma's start seemed even slower than usual, maybe a bit tentative rather than deliberative. But then he came on strong and seemed (mostly) in control from the middle rounds on. Lopez looked better in the 12th.
This was my impression as well. Lopez did enough to win and I don't feel like he stole the decision, but 119-109 is insane to me. Loma was the better fighter in rounds 7-11, and going into the twelfth it seemed like the bout was a tossup. I'm not sure what the judges were seeing, so if anyone smarter than me can elaborate, I'd appreciate it.

Edit: I'll also add that seeing this fight on regular ESPN was very cool. I'm guessing that boxing will get kicked back down to second-tier status once the sports calendar stabilizes, but tonight reminded me of the old days of ESPN when you'd watch a three hour fight card and then follow it up with a hotly contested Australian rules football match.
 
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nolasoxfan

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119-109 is awful. But what round 1-6 did Lopez lose? He also clearly won 12. There's no way to get to 6 rounds won by Lomachenko.
I think Loma won either the 2nd or 3rd. I don’t remember exactly. He did squeak by an early round, though.
Lopez did enough to win the fight, and I’m sure he got points for being the aggressor for most of the fight, but I still believe a draw would have been a just outcome. That 119-109 card from the female judge was a joke.
 

Riconway3155

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I could not believe Loma being on autopilot for the first 6 rounds. I get that he does it for like 3 rounds consistently, but when you win one round out of the first 6, you are in a huge hole and have to catch up. I was basically screaming at the tv. I thought it came down to the last round and he lost that one. He absolutely lost that fight. It wasn’t 119 - 109 (did I hear that the judge was letterman’s daughter?) but in my opinion he didn’t even deserve a draw like some are saying.
 

thestardawg

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I agree that card was off. However I think you can make a case that Lopez won the first 7 rounds and most of them are hard to dispute. He also clearly won 12. I think 116-112 was right on the money
 

Sille Skrub

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Agree with above. I can’t even remember Loma doing anything of note during the first six rounds. Tough to win a fight that way.

Loma was great from 7-11 but Lopez came back big in 12.
 

EvilEmpire

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Loma had shoulder surgery not long after that fight.


Management putting it out there like that is spin, but it still looks like a legit injury. It doesn't sound like Loma had a rematch clause in the contract. I think I'd like to see that fight again. I don't expect a different outcome though. Lopez is younger, bigger, and fast enough , and will likely continue to improve. Loma is older, smaller, will likely get slower, and is in decline.

Still would like to see it again though.

Six weeks before the fight, Lomachenko was given an injection and alerted both the Voluntary Anti-Doping Association and the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

"We lost one week of training. We lost one week of sparring because the doctor forbid him to do much for a week after the injection," Klimas said.

Klimas added that a few weeks later, the pain flared up during a sparring session. At that juncture, Lomachenko was given another injection, and his father and trainer, Anatoly, "wanted out of the fight," Klimas said.

Vasiliy Lomachenko said he would not withdraw from the fight, and he made it clear to his team that if he dropped out, he would retire.