Sons of LawTown Fool Manchester City

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I made my peace with this one months ago, but its certainly huge for City. I don't really expect domestic domination - the league is too competitive and the injury toll on top English clubs introduces too much variance into every season for any club at this point to be expected to reel off 3-4 titles in a row. But he'll have them challenging for the title every year and he's certainly the guy to take them to the next level in Europe and maybe bag the CL at some point.

It will be interesting to see if the powers-that-be at United relent and hire Mourinho sometime this spring or summer after LVG's seemingly inevitable sacking. The rumor is that Charleton and SAF have been opposed to hiring him, but they can't really give the job to freaking Ryan Giggs when Liverpool has just hired Klopp and City has just hired Guardiola, can they?
 

teddykgb

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I made my peace with this one months ago, but its certainly huge for City. I don't really expect domestic domination - the league is too competitive and the injury toll on top English clubs introduces too much variance into every season for any club at this point to be expected to reel off 3-4 titles in a row. But he'll have them challenging for the title every year and he's certainly the guy to take them to the next level in Europe and maybe bag the CL at some point.

It will be interesting to see if the powers-that-be at United relent and hire Mourinho sometime this spring or summer after LVG's seemingly inevitable sacking. The rumor is that Charleton and SAF have been opposed to hiring him, but they can't really give the job to freaking Ryan Giggs when Liverpool has just hired Klopp and City has just hired Guardiola, can they?
I would agree. The goals for me as a City fan would be just an overall improvement in the quality of football and more assured advancement in the CL on a yearly basis as well as continuing to challenge for the league. I don't think it's possible to just win every year in England and wouldn't expect that at all. On the whole, where the City experience the last 5 or so years has been wonderful but shaky every step of the way, I would expect a ton of maturity and for some of the stars to really hit their highest highs with fewer lows under Pep.
 

Zomp

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My supported club aside it will just be nice to see Pep take a challenge. While City is far from a side that needs a major rehaul, like mms said it will be interesting to see how he fares in a more competitive league where he isn't managing a squad that will always be head and shoulders above the rest.

I wouldn't count on Yaya being there next season but I'd think he'd need to bring a center midfielder if so.
 

teddykgb

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My supported club aside it will just be nice to see Pep take a challenge. While City is far from a side that needs a major rehaul, like mms said it will be interesting to see how he fares in a more competitive league where he isn't managing a squad that will always be head and shoulders above the rest.

I wouldn't count on Yaya being there next season but I'd think he'd need to bring a center midfielder if so.
Don't fret. You'll always have Giggsy.

The only way Yaya could stay is if he wanted to shift to CB. He's tremendous on the ball, but he's not a CB, nor is he likely to want to do that. I think it's almost a certainty he's out. Off the top of my head I'd list Kolarov, Fernando, Mangala, DiMichelis as all under heavy pressure simply due to being lacking with the ball at their feet. I think Sterling gets a season to show he can play in that style (and I suspect he can't). Fernandinho is so complete that he probably gets a few more years of decreasing playing time. Bony is likely off anyway. Even De Bruyne will face some scrutiny although Bayern wanted to sign him so Pep must think he can reign in some of his ball losing tendencies, which makes me ecstatic because I love KDB's vision and ruthlessness.
 

bosox4283

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It will be interesting to see if the powers-that-be at United relent and hire Mourinho sometime this spring or summer after LVG's seemingly inevitable sacking. The rumor is that Charleton and SAF have been opposed to hiring him, but they can't really give the job to freaking Ryan Giggs when Liverpool has just hired Klopp and City has just hired Guardiola, can they?
In this scenario, does Chelsea make a serious move for Simeone? Pelligrini seems to be a decent choice for either ManU and Chelsea, but not quite the most exciting choice. If Zidane has a good season at Real Madrid, his success could bolster the case to make Giggs the manager.

Who else is on Chelsea's radar?
 

teddykgb

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I could certainly see Chelsea making a serious move for Simeone although I'm not sure why Diego would want to take that job. It would invite the delicious possibility of Mourinho to Atletico, which would be fun as a neutral observer.

Pellegrini is a class man and a decent manager. I suppose if anyone can deal with Roman it's probably him. He'd help at United more because they're so dross and uninspired right now that at least they'd attack again. But the defenders aren't there to cope with his system which borders on the suicidal. I think Liverpool deserve a ton of credit for getting Klopp done ASAP because Klopp would probably stand to make an absolute fortune right now if he were still available.
 

teddykgb

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I like how going to a club with an unlimited budget, Sergio Aguero already in the fold and a fanbase without unrealistic demands and expectations now constitutes a "challenge".


(I hope this post isn't considered low efffort, I had to actually make this image but it seems like it will be useful in the coming days and months)
 

Dummy Hoy

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Arsenal fans: "Why won't our team spend the money we need to compete? wah!" "That team spends lots of money so it sucks. wah!"
 

teddykgb

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I've posted it before but I'll never stop posting it. The funds aren't unlimited because Arsenal and their BFFs United, Liverpool, and Spurs saw to that


 

teddykgb

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Presumably Roman hadn't yet forced them to agree to something in exchange for his signature and so they called on Spurs at the last minute
 
OK - I'll stipulate that a £150 million warchest (the figure widely reported yesterday) in the next transfer window isn't "unlimited". Happy?

I promise, this isn't me whining as an Arsenal supporter - I don't begrudge Pep going to Man City, or Man City hiring a great manager, or for Man City fans to be overjoyed. But in what universe is joining the club with probably the best squad and probably the most resources in its league, *and* a history of underachieving in Europe which should give him plenty of time in the eyes of his supporters, a "challenge"? Pep only had two of those three factors going for him at Bayern, for crying out loud.
 

teddykgb

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Roman eventually signed onto FFP. Only City and I believe Wigan rejected it. Of course now it's too big a problem for some of the clubs that really supported it like Milan and they want to change it.

On a more positive note, let's speculate about Pep's deployment of City's players.

I'm going to assume that he'll revert to 4-3-3. City have neither Ribery nor Robben out wide and Aguero is the star player things will be built around.

If you look at the way Barca deployed their 4-3-3 with a single pivot (Busquets) shielding a high defensive line with Xavi and Iniesta ahead of him you start to see some of the challenges City will have adopting this formation.

There's no natural #4 at the club. Fernando shields but the ball is a hot potato to him. Fernandinho and Delph are more box to box types than true #4s. Yaya played this position once but either can't or won't expend the energy this position requires. City have been linked to Weigl from Dortmund who would play this role. Evans is a young midfielder who you might have wondered about but he's been sold. If i had to guess, assuming City do not buy at this position, I'd expect Fernandinho to take this role as he's the closest approximation to Busquets although they're extremely different players and the comparison isn't particularly well made.

I think it's a no brainer that David Silva will be a CM under Pep. Silva drifts a lot, probably too much, in City's current setup and would have to show a lot more discipline under Pep. I find it hard to say whether he's more Xavi or Iniesta, he's sort of the middle of both, but Pep has shown a willingness to give up some steel in midfield for creativity and possession and Silva will offer both. In a few recent matches Pellegrini has taken off 2 CMs and forced Silva into a deeper role and he's looked good in the position. Silva is honestly lousy in front of goal anyway, he's almost better deployed in a slightly deeper role picking passes and dictating play. I think he will flourish under Pep even as he ages.

The question then centers around De Bruyne and whether he will also fall back into CM. Unlike Silva, De Bruyne is incredibly talented as a goal scorer in his own right. But some of his best attributes are his willingness to play an incisive early ball or cross that cuts up the defense. If you try to play a Silva, Fernandinho, De Bruyne midfield you had better have vintage Barca possession stats because that midfield is really going to struggle to get stuck in. But then again, a Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets midfield should have been constantly overrun but somehow never was, so maybe he'll do it. But in my heart of hearts, I think De Bruyne moves to an outside winger and a new CM is brought in. If a #4 arrives, maybe Fernandinho plays as a shuttle CM to provide a bit more defensive solidarity and balance. If not, I think a CM who fits the system is brought in in spite of City having a minor glut of CMS today. (Thiago will obviously be linked although I don't see it happening, at least immediately)

Up front, I think Sterling, Aguero, De Bruyne becomes the attacking trio unless something crazy like Neymar happens. Ultimately, I think Liverpool fans were more right than wrong about Raheem and as I said earlier I wonder whether he'll be able to adapt to Pep's style. His first touch is honestly lousy and his second touch is often the same. He's woefully one footed. If ever there were a better marriage of manager to player who really needs a manager it is this one, as pretty much everything Sterling lacks is something Pep requires. Raheem puts more than a fair shift in and can look dangerous if given enough space but he quite frankly has to improve his ball skills significantly to stick under Pep. Nonetheless, City paid a small fortune for him and he's English, so I think he gets a go. If Raheem needed this manager more than almost anyone Aguero is maybe 2nd. He's such an underrated star, Pep will probably get him seriously into the Ballon D'Or conversation if he can stay healthy. If I'm being honest, Sergio can be a bit loose in possession as well sometimes but the benefits so far outweigh any negatives that I'm certain Pep will make it work. KDB isn't a traditional speedy winger but he's got such a deadly eye for a pass and is great with both feet and I think Pep will want him using those skills near the goal.

The back 4 will probably be where most of the activity ends up happening. I don't think either fullback who will be first choice is on the team today. Kolarov is woeful with the ball and in my opinion can't play the way Pep requires. Zabaleta maybe can but there seems to be a lot of noise about him moving on (unfortunately) and he's getting on the older side. The youth LB, Angelino, seems tailor made for Guardiola but may be too young. Clichy can probably play in this system but won't be a regular. I think City buys at both FB positions or tries to patch it together with Zabaleta and Angelino. At CB so much depends on the health of Kompany. I think a Stones or Laporte will be bought and some combination of those 2 with Otamendi will be the regular rotation.

On the bench, it's really juicy to think of Nasri as having a resurrection under Pep. He's got all the right attributes as an amazing possession player who can pick a pass himself but it'd take a tremendous attitude change on Samir's part for that to work. Maybe he gets invigorated under Pep and can play as a CM in this type of system but at best he's a wild card for next season. I think he'd be a tremendous CM if he had the desire to really do it but the jury is really out on that front. Navas is a very useful player with little end product. He does seem to understand well how to move for the team and is willing to accept a bench role at times so I suspect he'll be kept around to offer a change in the wide areas. Delph probably stays because he's tremendous value for his transfer fee as CM depth but I think he's going to find it hard to find match time under Pep. He works incredibly hard, though, so he might be the kind of player needed to make a high pressing system work. I think Bony and Mangala are each sold for depressingly low fees compared to what they were bought for as only Chelsea seem capable of flogging off unwanted players for big money.

This is of course idle speculation and of course relatively little of it will be correct as I think there will be a lot of transfer activity at City. Just sort of one man's guessing game as to how I think Pep might deploy most of the current roster and where the major gaps lie. The biggest change will be philosophical. While City already often wins the possession battle, the current crop of players have shown little positional discipline or willingness to press from the front. They'll occasionally give it a 10 minute whirl but many of the existing stars at City are going to be pushed to do far more work in pressing than they've ever done. This is scary with older and/or injury prone players like Silva and Aguero, but the change at City will require many of the same parts to take up different roles and different responsibilities.
 

Dummy Hoy

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OK - I'll stipulate that a £150 million warchest (the figure widely reported yesterday) in the next transfer window isn't "unlimited". Happy?

I promise, this isn't me whining as an Arsenal supporter - I don't begrudge Pep going to Man City, or Man City hiring a great manager, or for Man City fans to be overjoyed. But in what universe is joining the club with probably the best squad and probably the most resources in its league, *and* a history of underachieving in Europe which should give him plenty of time in the eyes of his supporters, a "challenge"? Pep only had two of those three factors going for him at Bayern, for crying out loud.
All teasing aside, I do agree with this. There's a certain skill set that is required to put very good teams over the top, and it's something not a lot of people can do. I've always hated the accolades that Phil Jackson got (reminded me of Mr. Burns managing the softball team - "You, Kobe, go score the basketball!"), but the fact is that it took great coaching and management to do what his teams did. Of course what Tony Pulis or Mick McCarthy or Big Sam does also requires a certain skill set and a lot of good coaching and management.

I think we'd be in agreement here, but it would be awesome to see someone demonstrate that they could do both. Imagine seeing a guy like Mourinho go to Leyton Orient and start from scratch. That would really prove how special he is (and I'm not picking on him- I think he's great).
 

Zomp

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I think Aguero is the best striker in the Premiership when healthy but that's the problem isn't it? It wouldn't shock me to see Pep see if he can get Lewandowski or Aubemeyang or Lacazette if he doesn't think he can rely on Aguero.
 

soxfan121

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Roman eventually signed onto FFP. Only City and I believe Wigan rejected it. Of course now it's too big a problem for some of the clubs that really supported it like Milan and they want to change it.

On a more positive note, let's speculate about Pep's deployment of City's players.

I'm going to assume that he'll revert to 4-3-3. City have neither Ribery nor Robben out wide and Aguero is the star player things will be built around.

If you look at the way Barca deployed their 4-3-3 with a single pivot (Busquets) shielding a high defensive line with Xavi and Iniesta ahead of him you start to see some of the challenges City will have adopting this formation.

There's no natural #4 at the club. Fernando shields but the ball is a hot potato to him. Fernandinho and Delph are more box to box types than true #4s. Yaya played this position once but either can't or won't expend the energy this position requires. City have been linked to Weigl from Dortmund who would play this role. Evans is a young midfielder who you might have wondered about but he's been sold. If i had to guess, assuming City do not buy at this position, I'd expect Fernandinho to take this role as he's the closest approximation to Busquets although they're extremely different players and the comparison isn't particularly well made.

I think it's a no brainer that David Silva will be a CM under Pep. Silva drifts a lot, probably too much, in City's current setup and would have to show a lot more discipline under Pep. I find it hard to say whether he's more Xavi or Iniesta, he's sort of the middle of both, but Pep has shown a willingness to give up some steel in midfield for creativity and possession and Silva will offer both. In a few recent matches Pellegrini has taken off 2 CMs and forced Silva into a deeper role and he's looked good in the position. Silva is honestly lousy in front of goal anyway, he's almost better deployed in a slightly deeper role picking passes and dictating play. I think he will flourish under Pep even as he ages.

The question then centers around De Bruyne and whether he will also fall back into CM. Unlike Silva, De Bruyne is incredibly talented as a goal scorer in his own right. But some of his best attributes are his willingness to play an incisive early ball or cross that cuts up the defense. If you try to play a Silva, Fernandinho, De Bruyne midfield you had better have vintage Barca possession stats because that midfield is really going to struggle to get stuck in. But then again, a Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets midfield should have been constantly overrun but somehow never was, so maybe he'll do it. But in my heart of hearts, I think De Bruyne moves to an outside winger and a new CM is brought in. If a #4 arrives, maybe Fernandinho plays as a shuttle CM to provide a bit more defensive solidarity and balance. If not, I think a CM who fits the system is brought in in spite of City having a minor glut of CMS today. (Thiago will obviously be linked although I don't see it happening, at least immediately)

Up front, I think Sterling, Aguero, De Bruyne becomes the attacking trio unless something crazy like Neymar happens. Ultimately, I think Liverpool fans were more right than wrong about Raheem and as I said earlier I wonder whether he'll be able to adapt to Pep's style. His first touch is honestly lousy and his second touch is often the same. He's woefully one footed. If ever there were a better marriage of manager to player who really needs a manager it is this one, as pretty much everything Sterling lacks is something Pep requires. Raheem puts more than a fair shift in and can look dangerous if given enough space but he quite frankly has to improve his ball skills significantly to stick under Pep. Nonetheless, City paid a small fortune for him and he's English, so I think he gets a go. If Raheem needed this manager more than almost anyone Aguero is maybe 2nd. He's such an underrated star, Pep will probably get him seriously into the Ballon D'Or conversation if he can stay healthy. If I'm being honest, Sergio can be a bit loose in possession as well sometimes but the benefits so far outweigh any negatives that I'm certain Pep will make it work. KDB isn't a traditional speedy winger but he's got such a deadly eye for a pass and is great with both feet and I think Pep will want him using those skills near the goal.

The back 4 will probably be where most of the activity ends up happening. I don't think either fullback who will be first choice is on the team today. Kolarov is woeful with the ball and in my opinion can't play the way Pep requires. Zabaleta maybe can but there seems to be a lot of noise about him moving on (unfortunately) and he's getting on the older side. The youth LB, Angelino, seems tailor made for Guardiola but may be too young. Clichy can probably play in this system but won't be a regular. I think City buys at both FB positions or tries to patch it together with Zabaleta and Angelino. At CB so much depends on the health of Kompany. I think a Stones or Laporte will be bought and some combination of those 2 with Otamendi will be the regular rotation.

On the bench, it's really juicy to think of Nasri as having a resurrection under Pep. He's got all the right attributes as an amazing possession player who can pick a pass himself but it'd take a tremendous attitude change on Samir's part for that to work. Maybe he gets invigorated under Pep and can play as a CM in this type of system but at best he's a wild card for next season. I think he'd be a tremendous CM if he had the desire to really do it but the jury is really out on that front. Navas is a very useful player with little end product. He does seem to understand well how to move for the team and is willing to accept a bench role at times so I suspect he'll be kept around to offer a change in the wide areas. Delph probably stays because he's tremendous value for his transfer fee as CM depth but I think he's going to find it hard to find match time under Pep. He works incredibly hard, though, so he might be the kind of player needed to make a high pressing system work. I think Bony and Mangala are each sold for depressingly low fees compared to what they were bought for as only Chelsea seem capable of flogging off unwanted players for big money.

This is of course idle speculation and of course relatively little of it will be correct as I think there will be a lot of transfer activity at City. Just sort of one man's guessing game as to how I think Pep might deploy most of the current roster and where the major gaps lie. The biggest change will be philosophical. While City already often wins the possession battle, the current crop of players have shown little positional discipline or willingness to press from the front. They'll occasionally give it a 10 minute whirl but many of the existing stars at City are going to be pushed to do far more work in pressing than they've ever done. This is scary with older and/or injury prone players like Silva and Aguero, but the change at City will require many of the same parts to take up different roles and different responsibilities.
Great post. Just one question: what are they gonna do for Game 2, you know, after Aguero blows out a hammy and misses half the season?
 

teddykgb

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You think he's gonna make it that far? All this pressing and moving he might not last the first 20 minutes.

There are many things that I love about Pep coming to City. I can't possibly pick a favorite. But his bringing in a new training staff, even if that staff has had some troubles in Munich, is easily in my top 5.

In response to both your question and Zomp's comment, I would not be surprised at all if City brought in another striker. Although Ihenacho has looked quite good in limited time, it wouldn't surprise me to see City play Aguero wide in a 4-3-3 as opposed to a central striker which would leave space for a target man if he were so inclined.
 

swiftaw

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There was a major accident on the M6 which completely closed the North-bound lanes. That could've had an impact on people getting to the ground.
 

teddykgb

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I would not describe this as great. There's nothing worse than getting your teeth kicked in in the 745 match. Now I'm going to be a piece of shit all day.
 

NickEsasky

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Sterling cannot finish to save his life. That non call in the box on Aguero allowed Liverpool to stay in the game down 1.
 

teddykgb

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That call was just awful. Sick and tired of it happening to City this year. I mean it's so fucking obvious and this shouldn't have been a match
 

NickEsasky

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That call was just awful. Sick and tired of it happening to City this year. I mean it's so fucking obvious and this shouldn't have been a match
the ref had a clear view about 3 yards behind the play too. No excuse for that at all. It's not like Aguero went down easy he changed direction quickly and was clearly tripped.
 

Zomp

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If you guys are talking about this I actually think it's a good non call. It was definitely stupid of Moreno to swing his leg out but I think Aguero goes down way too easy with minimal contact.
 

teddykgb

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Come on. He stabs his leg out and impedes him while getting no ball. It's about as clear cut a pen as you're going to see and given how many times we have heard about there not even needing to be contact it's doubly bad. The defender simply can't do that
 

Schnerres

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Aguero saw he won´t get the ball, took the soft contact and fell down. German coaches would say "you could give that, but you don´t have to". It was dumb to make that backwards move from Moreno, that´s for sure.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Come on. He stabs his leg out and impedes him while getting no ball. It's about as clear cut a pen as you're going to see and given how many times we have heard about there not even needing to be contact it's doubly bad. The defender simply can't do that
But Moreno DID get the ball .. Aguero then felt the follow through and dove. Good non call.
 

coremiller

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Why on earth did Pellegrini play a double pivot for the full 90 minutes against Norwich? Against a team that provided zero attacking threat, did they really need the defensive solidity of Fernando/Fernandinho for the whole game? Obviously they missed YaYa but they couldn't have sacrificed one of those players for Sterling or Iheanacho from the start?
 

fletcherpost

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City never had a shot on target in the second half. That's terrible. Aguero and Bony don't seem to be on the same page. They made a good observation on Sky Sports, showing Aguero on the break on the flank and Bony jogging into midfield as opposed to running to get into the box. City haven't scored many goals away from home this season, but they have to be doing better against a team that can't buy a win these days. Norwich were all hands to the pump, and there was a lot of congestion in the Norwich box, but City have good players and had almost all of the ball second half.

Are the City players waiting for Pepe to show up, is that a factor the early announcement of the current manager's departure. I dunno, but the pundits are asking the question week in week out.
 

teddykgb

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The "waiting for Pep" thing is just something pundits like bleating on about. The team has been on a rather consistent downward trajectory for the past few seasons as players have aged and the players bought haven't really caught on as you might have hoped. Things looked better earlier this season with the additions of KDB and Sterling and City were mostly keeping it together until De Bruyne went out. It's been a complete shit show since.

The attack is ponderous and incredibly wide. Teams are content to push City into wide areas and run a fullback overlap since City are playing Aguero alone and even if he were in the box he's unlikely to get on the end of the header. If Bony hadn't turned into a pumpkin maybe he'd be able to feast on this style of attack but he's maybe the worst signing City have made in this era. I will never understand how he didn't work out at City, I thought he was a PL version of what Negredo brought to City for those 6 months, but he's been absolutely awful every time he's been on the pitch.

Norwich pulled the plug on whatever life support City had left on this season. Kompany getting injured at midweek is just another nail in the coffin. PSG is the CL Quarters draw, which normally i'd be super excited for, but there's no hope right now City will do anything but get thumped. I don't like to blame managers all that much except when it gets like it is now at the end of MP's reign or how it was at the end of Mancini's where the team seems out of ideas and energy. Tactics are tactics and as fans we (especially myself) can easily fall into the trap of saying that if there were a different formation the match would play out entirely differently. While I think City's tactics right now leave a lot to be desired, fundamentally the team looks old, tired, and slow. This City group has always been somewhat prone to these problems, but the brilliance of Yaya and Silva were enough to usually overcome some of the poor periods. Silva is such a shell of himself right now that it's almost sad to watch him play. yaya just doesn't have that in him anymore, so the warts are really showing up.

So for now I guess it's all pinned on the CL. I have no idea how a Mangala/Otamendi defensive pairing can do it, but I suppose you have to head to Paris and hope to 0-0 or preferably 1-1 and then see what you can do at home. KDB looks close to a return and Nasri is training again, although Nasri was removed from CL squad for a striker the manager refuses to play.