So what’s the matter with Severino?

Mugsy's Jock

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By all accounts his stuff is still fine, but his location is a mess and he’s mighty prone to gopher balls. (The Post’s Davidoff reassuringly points out, however, there’s giving up home runs, and then there’s giving up home runs):
Second of all, how badly did Severino really pitch on Monday night? Consider the distances of the two homers, courtesy of MLB’s Statcast: Amed Rosario’s leadoff shot in the first inningtraveled an estimated 378 feet. And after the Yankees knotted the score at 2-2 in the bottom of the third, veteran Jose Bautista broke the tie in the fourth with a modest flyball that traveled 353 feet into the seats. These were not bombs. When you throw in Severino’s strikeout-to-walk ratio, it doesn’t call for drastic measures
Pedro likes Severino, so I do too...but at 6 starts now or so, this streak has to be a real concern.

https://nypost.com/2018/08/13/yankees-must-resist-hitting-luis-severino-panic-button-for-now/
 
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Mugsy's Jock

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Kicking it off w Mystic Merlin’s observation from last night’s game thread:
Pedro opined to Francesa in a July interview that he had issues with showing the ball to the hitter too early, letting hitters get an earlier bead on the pitch. Seemed to suggest that he’s battled a lot of mechanical issues more generally.

There’s clearly some command problems hurting him, but to your point one would expect his velocity to get him some weaker contact more often.
 

21st Century Sox

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Davidoff too small a sample though no? 11 home runs allowed in last 7 starts is really something. Not like Pearce hits a 400' bomb, and 10 cheapies. Last night, no doubt, cheap HR's, but he has really left several FB's over the plate that have been murdered. Seems like mechanics, but it must be super minor, because the staff (and Seve) seem to have no clue to the issue.....
 

crow216

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It looks mechanical and maybe he's in his own head a little bit. He hasn't had a consistent slider or fastball in this stretch. To be honest, I think the wheels were starting to come off before these 6 starts and I was shot down because the results weren't showing it.
 

Al Zarilla

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I can't read these things like Sprowl, but there seems to be a reasonably good "doughnut" (stay out of the middle of the plate) in this scatter plot from last night. Tipping seems like a possibility? His velocity and other seemed fine.

 

wilked

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If the season were to end next week... Happ is your Wild Card starter?
 

Clears Cleaver

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the YES folks were showing video of JBJ calling Severino's pitches, including a pretty easy to see "fastball" from the dugout, along side Mookie last night.
 

gtmtnbiker

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the YES folks were showing video of JBJ calling Severino's pitches, including a pretty easy to see "fastball" from the dugout, along side Mookie last night.
I'm trying to understand this. Where was JBJ? In the dugout or on second base? So he was able to see the catcher's signs?
 

DrewDawg

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I'm trying to understand this. Where was JBJ? In the dugout or on second base? So he was able to see the catcher's signs?
Not stealing signs, it’s Severino tipping pitches. It’s been a thing all season.
 

TheYaz67

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He threw only fastballs last night. I was calling them too.
According to Pitchfx he threw 37 fastballs, 18 change ups and 15 sliders, but the fastball was all he was throwing consistently for strikes (67%) so that's what they mostly sat on and hit...

Also 5 of the balls the Sox hit that were "in-play, no out" were in the strike zone, but another 4 were not (and not even very close) which again suggests they knew what was coming pitch wise (if not location)...
 

jon abbey

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It's easy to forget how young Severino still as since he's been around a long time now, but he is younger than Stephen Tarpley (24/25) and the same age as White Sox rookie SPs Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez (all 24), just for a bit of context.

It seems pretty obvious at this point that there's some kind of pitch tipping going on (no idea why they haven't been able to fix it though), but I think it's also important to factor in that SPs that young are rarely reliable top of the rotation options. For him to have a season and a half under his belt as a top 3 AL starter (3rd in the Cy Young voting last year, and absolutely dominant through July 2 this year with a 1.98 ERA) is really impressive, but it would be surprising if he didn't still have growing pains and ups and downs. Unfortunately for NY, last night was a massive 'down'.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Not stealing signs, it’s Severino tipping pitches. It’s been a thing all season.
Yeah, basically they cut to JBJ in the dugout studying Severino and he called out “fastball” presumably before pitch was thrown

To me he looks like he’s sitting back on his right foot as long, also known as rushing it to the plate. Forces the pitcher to have to open up more quickly and typically creates a loss of command
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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On Reddit there's a decent amount of discussion that Severino and perhaps Gardner and Sanchez did not realize the game started at 7:40 instead of 8:10. Gardner played the first inning in warm up shoes instead of cleats, Sanchez did not have nail polish on for the first inning but had it afterwards, and Severino was playing catch in the OF 10 mins before game time instead of warming up with purpose. Interesting if true.
 

DrewDawg

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On Reddit there's a decent amount of discussion that Severino and perhaps Gardner and Sanchez did not realize the game started at 7:40 instead of 8:10. Gardner played the first inning in warm up shoes instead of cleats, Sanchez did not have nail polish on for the first inning but had it afterwards, and Severino was playing catch in the OF 10 mins before game time instead of warming up with purpose. Interesting if true.

There was a brief mention during broadcast alluding to something like this.
 

jon abbey

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The official Yankee line is that's not true but it seems like they'd say that no matter what.
 

crow216

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On Reddit there's a decent amount of discussion that Severino and perhaps Gardner and Sanchez did not realize the game started at 7:40 instead of 8:10. Gardner played the first inning in warm up shoes instead of cleats, Sanchez did not have nail polish on for the first inning but had it afterwards, and Severino was playing catch in the OF 10 mins before game time instead of warming up with purpose. Interesting if true.
If true, all the coaches fault. Was nobody on top of Sev and checking in on him as I would imagine is routine during every start from Spring Training and on?
 

jon abbey

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It's crazy that the Yankees are retaining not just Boone but his whole staff, the entire league knew he was tipping for months but they couldn't figure it out/fix it?
 

Sprowl

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Eduardo Rodriguez was tipping his slider for much of 2017, a pitching-expert manager's attention notwithstanding. He got over it in 2018, and an entirely new coaching staff probably helped.

No heads roll? New York has become a kinder, gentler place.
 

bankshot1

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I thought dumping Girardi was a curious move last year, (somebody (Brian) didn't want to risk him winning a World Series with the kids) as I thought he was a pretty good manager, who seemed to have the ability to manage both vets and kids, even if all in the clubhouse didn't love the guy. But firing Boone, who I thought was eh, for winning 100 +1, and then losing a 4-game series to a better team is not warranted. He may be on a much hotter seat next year, particulalry if they sign Machado, Harper, and Kershaw and add Bob Gibson at the deadline to bolster the post-season rotation.
 

bosox79

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It's crazy that the Yankees are retaining not just Boone but his whole staff, the entire league knew he was tipping for months but they couldn't figure it out/fix it?
It sounds crazy but is it, really? It seems we've had the tipping conversation about EdRod 40 times. Any time a mechanical flaw is found in one of our pitchers, it seems to be Dustin Pedroia and not the coaching staff.

Pitching is weird, man.
 

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Maybe the coaches have identified how Severino is tipping just fine, but for whatever reason he hasn't been able to consistently do whatever it is the coaches want in order to shake it.

Sometimes players just can't execute. Hopefully it will be easier to fix in the off season when he isn't worried about starting every fifth day.
 

jon abbey

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I thought dumping Girardi was a curious move last year, (somebody (Brian) didn't want to risk him winning a World Series with the kids) as I thought he was a pretty good manager, who seemed to have the ability to manage both vets and kids, even if all in the clubhouse didn't love the guy. But firing Boone, who I thought was eh, for winning 100 +1, and then losing a 4-game series to a better team is not warranted. He may be on a much hotter seat next year, particulalry if they sign Machado, Harper, and Kershaw and add Bob Gibson at the deadline to bolster the post-season rotation.
I always liked Girardi but clearly he had big disagreements with the front office, and let's keep in mind he sat Andujar for the entire stretch last year in favor of playing the corpses of Headley and Ellsbury at DH. The issue was in the hire of Boone, who seemed like a bad hire from day 1 and never got any better. The actual results are misleading, of course 100 wins and an ALDS loss is a solid season for most teams, but there aren't many job components left for today's managers and the biggest one is to sense the flow of the game and make pitching changes accordingly. He was quite bad at this all season and at least as bad this past series. If NY is going to compete with two historically good teams in HOU and BOS (and HOU's farm system is still loaded, they are ridiculous), they need to think about improving any weak area and Boone just isn't good enough for a title contending team.
 

bankshot1

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I don't disagree, but I sense that Cashman wanted someone more controllable than Girardi, and if Girardi won with the new and improved and younger Yankees, it might have been difficult not inking him to another contract, and Cashman would have had a guy he didn't want for another 3-5 years.

Astros beat Ys in 7 in the ALCS, Cashman pounced and put his boy Boonochio in.
 

crow216

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I don't disagree, but I sense that Cashman wanted someone more controllable than Girardi, and if Girardi won with the new and improved and younger Yankees, it might have been difficult not inking him to another contract, and Cashman would have had a guy he didn't want for another 3-5 years.

Astros beat Ys in 7 in the ALCS, Cashman pounced and put his boy Boonochio in.
Controllable is the wrong word. He wanted someone philosophically aligned who wouldn't fight back on a gameplans almost completely dictated by statistics. Nobody could know for sure, but there's no indication that Cashman is actually making lineup cards or telling Boone what to do before or during a game.
 

bankshot1

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six of one half-dozen of the other.

IMO Cashman wanted a manager who would be more pliable and more likely to take direction/advice from FO.

You know he wanted greater control.
 

jon abbey

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Of course he did, which makes the remaining parts of a manager's job even more crucial to execute well. Boone just isn't good enough, they can waste another season reconfirming that or they can act preemptively. For context, I never called for Girardi to be fired during his entire tenure, but Boone has pretty clearly been overmatched from day 1, which is OK if he improved as the season went on, but he did not.
 

crow216

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I don't want to stuff up the Sox game thread because that's not right but Cora is doing exactly what Boone did to Severino right now. Put him into an inning when it was clear he shouldn't come out again. And Sale looks hurt. You don't go from 99-100 to 93 because of a "mechanical" issue.
 

jon abbey

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I don't want to stuff up the Sox game thread because that's not right but Cora is doing exactly what Boone did to Severino right now. Put him into an inning when it was clear he shouldn't come out again. And Sale looks hurt. You don't go from 99-100 to 93 because of a "mechanical" issue.
It's pretty cold out, but his control is a bigger worry than his velocity right now.
 

terrynever

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Controllable is the wrong word. He wanted someone philosophically aligned who wouldn't fight back on a gameplans almost completely dictated by statistics. Nobody could know for sure, but there's no indication that Cashman is actually making lineup cards or telling Boone what to do before or during a game.
I agree with bankshot. Controllable is the right word. Cashman sat quietly while Torre was removed by a senile Boss in 2007 because then Cash could pick his own manager. Girardi was a good choice but after the Yanks won in 2009, Girardi owned the leverage with Cashman. Joe lasted 10 years, which is long enough for any manager. Cashman wanted total control and he has it now. Boone serves at Cash's behest. Boone manages the games, with help from his coaches. His decisions are reviewed by Cashman and the analytics staff. The Boss used to rant over the phone to Torre. Cash's advice is more high-tech and comes in AWS printouts.
 

jon abbey

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Torre needed to go, he was terrible the last few years here and proved it again in LA when he was hired there briefly afterwards. Girardi was a huge upgrade on late Torre and was still pretty good on the field, but clearly there were issues with him and the front office.