So if Kemba is "good", whats that Make Evan?

bakahump

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Wow. Fournier Sucks. Are European and Orlandos courts shifted 3 feet left? I dont think I have seen someone throw the ball to no one as often as him.
And vaunted Shooter for the Jays? HA!
He cant drive. He cant shoot. He cant pass.
At this point I am not sure he can speak french.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I do wonder if the crowd gets on him a bit if it will turn him off from re-signing with Boston.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It affects eyesight?

He is shooting .323 since being acquired.
It affects breathing and his endurance, which in turn affects his legs. If you recall, RL said that his legs felt like "jelly" the first time he tried to work out post-COVID.

Trying playing basketball with a N95 mask on and that might approximate it.

Think about EF's first breakaway - he couldn't get to the rim and blew the dunk. That's not happening pre-COVID
 

scottyno

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Tatum was a terrible shooter for about a month after coming back from covid then followed it up by putting up a great shooting april. Evan has had less than a week.
 

benhogan

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^^ agree ^^

Yea I wouldn't expect much from Evan (neither should CBS) for the next few weeks, the guy is clearly sluggish from COVID.

I expected the Port Cellar to be salty after last nights debacle...but this thread reaches new levels of irrational
 

luckiestman

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I was afraid he might suck

then he got hot

then he got sick

he looks like he still has covid

.....

I find it tough to judge these guys. I had pneumonia a couple years ago and it fucked me up for a while and of course I’m not a high level athlete but in decent shape.
 

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I was afraid he might suck

then he got hot

then he got sick

he looks like he still has covid

.....

I find it tough to judge these guys. I had pneumonia a couple years ago and it fucked me up for a while and of course I’m not a high level athlete but in decent shape.
Don't sell yourself short, you're a tremendous slouch
 

HowBoutDemSox

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So would be the locking of this thread by the mods. It doesn't appear to be going anywhere good, which is nor surprising given the opening post and premise.

Mods!! Lock it up!
This isn't Russia. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia, is it?
 

Cesar Crespo

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If he's still bad in another 5-6 games, it might be time to make a thread ask what's wrong with him. Until then, I'll differ to the other 549 games in his career.

Waters has played in 29 career games. He wasn't absolutely horrible in maybe 4 of them.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The good and the bad of Waters were on full display last night. Overall numbers aren't much: 6 points, 6 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers in 24 minutes. But during the first quarter run he was distributing the ball and getting to the basket. He was less noticeable during the rest of the game until the 4th quarter. Pritchard was supposed to be in but he had to come out with a nosebleed. And Waters, with about 6 minutes left and the Celtics protecting a 6 point lead, tried for a highlight reel fancy pass and just fired the ball out of bounds. Brad exploded on the bench, called an immediate time out, and got Pritchard back in.
 

bakahump

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I am sure Covid has something/Everything to do with this. But that really doesnt matter. When your playing him 66 mins in the last 2 games (injuries/suspensions/DNP be damned) you have to expect better then 13 total points on .238 shooting (.167 from 3). All with his expectedly "subpar" defense.

If thats really the expectation of EF over the next 5 games then he needs to sit. He is doing nothing out there. Certainly less then what Crappy Ojeleye or at "least he can play defense" Langford.

Hell we saw what Nesmith did when he was in instead. Would I expect that good a performance every night from a rookie? No. But right now he is night and day Better then Fournier on effort and "non fogginess" alone.
So tell me again why are we playing EF 30 mins a game Right Now?
Is he Currently a better option then GWill? Romeo? Nesmith? Or Parker?

5 games from now? Sure he may well be. But right now...He Sucks. You can certainly point to a likely reason WHY he sucks. But he sucks.

And yea Brad (and Ainge) playing him is doing him no favors with the crowd.
And no way a Half speed "Foggy" Fournier is "getting his timing down" or "earning confidence" with his teammates.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I am sure Covid has something/Everything to do with this. But that really doesnt matter. When your playing him 66 mins in the last 2 games (injuries/suspensions/DNP be damned) you have to expect better then 13 total points on .238 shooting (.167 from 3). All with his expectedly "subpar" defense.

If thats really the expectation of EF over the next 5 games then he needs to sit. He is doing nothing out there. Certainly less then what Crappy Ojeleye or at "least he can play defense" Langford.

Hell we saw what Nesmith did when he was in instead. Would I expect that good a performance every night from a rookie? No. But right now he is night and day Better then Fournier on effort and "non fogginess" alone.
So tell me again why are we playing EF 30 mins a game Right Now?
Is he Currently a better option then GWill? Romeo? Nesmith? Or Parker?

5 games from now? Sure he may well be. But right now...He Sucks. You can certainly point to a likely reason WHY he sucks. But he sucks.

And yea Brad (and Ainge) playing him is doing him no favors with the crowd.
And no way a Half speed "Foggy" Fournier is "getting his timing down" or "earning confidence" with his teammates.

If you think this, it's 100% Brad's fault for playing him so yell at Brad, not Evan.

Why are you we playing Evan Fournier right now? Because Brad Stevens. He is in control of who plays and doesn't.
 

bakahump

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Touché @Cesar Crespo

I have to think that CBS is trying to take the heat for EF. When behind the scenes (whether he really is or not) EF is saying "I feel fine". Maybe he is worried about the next Contract.

I know we have butted heads about CBS. But you have never said he is a Bad Coach. Just that he may have lost the Locker Room. And thus a Change might need to be made.

Playing EF the way he is currently playing is "Bad Coach" level. Especially when there are Better options on the bench.

It will be interesting how much run he gets Friday.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Touché @Cesar Crespo

I have to think that CBS is trying to take the heat for EF. When behind the scenes (whether he really is or not) EF is saying "I feel fine". Maybe he is worried about the next Contract.

I know we have butted heads about CBS. But you have never said he is a Bad Coach. Just that he may have lost the Locker Room. And thus a Change might need to be made.

Playing EF the way he is currently playing is "Bad Coach" level. Especially when there are Better options on the bench.

It will be interesting how much run he gets Friday.
I didn't say he lost the locker room. I said if he lost the locker room, he needs to be fired.

Brad said he's playing EF now so that he's ready in a few weeks, which I guess makes sense.

The one thing I do hate about Brad is that he seems to fall in love with players and uses them when there are better options like always using Semi and Grant.
 

chilidawg

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For this team to go anywhere in the playoffs Fournier has to be an effective bench scorer, hence the importance of getting him minutes now to get him into the flow of the system and get the Covid rust off. Benching him for Langford at this point would be incredibly short sighted. IMO.
 

luckiestman

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Touché @Cesar Crespo


Playing EF the way he is currently playing is "Bad Coach" level. Especially when there are Better options on the bench.

It will be interesting how much run he gets Friday.

If it was a one and done, sure. But he is betting that working him in now helps long term more than waiting until he is fully recovered. He might be wrong but I think that is different from how you are framing it.
 

Cellar-Door

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Touché @Cesar Crespo

I have to think that CBS is trying to take the heat for EF. When behind the scenes (whether he really is or not) EF is saying "I feel fine". Maybe he is worried about the next Contract.

I know we have butted heads about CBS. But you have never said he is a Bad Coach. Just that he may have lost the Locker Room. And thus a Change might need to be made.

Playing EF the way he is currently playing is "Bad Coach" level. Especially when there are Better options on the bench.

It will be interesting how much run he gets Friday.
No it isn't. It is in fact the opposite of Bad Coach. A Bad coach is one who looks at a tiny sample, ignores the possible reasons for that sample, ignores the impacts of playing time on future outcomes and plays players based on what happened in the last 20 minutes of game time. You fire that coach because he's a moron.

A good coach looks at EF... realizes he has a long history as a good NBA player, realizes that he's recovering from COVID and that players struggle when first coming back, realizes that the only way to develop the game sharpness he needs is to play, recognizes that for this team to have playoff success it needs EF at as close to 100% as they can get him, realizes that short term moderate (if that, the bench options aren't exactly consistent killers) loss of performance is worth the longer term better performance in the games that matter most.... and plays Fournier 25-30 MPG.
 

bakahump

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Even when seeding is tremendously important?
In game 20 Ok, your good coach examples rings true.
At game 63 Not so sure. We need to play to win every game.
Doling out LARGE mins to a player struggling is not good management.
10-15 hell maybe even 20 mins a game. But 30 plus is not smart.
 

slamminsammya

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Even when seeding is tremendously important?
In game 20 Ok, your good coach examples rings true.
At game 63 Not so sure. We need to play to win every game.
Doling out LARGE mins to a player struggling is not good management.
10-15 hell maybe even 20 mins a game. But 30 plus is not smart.
I am not sure Ojeleye would be any better. At least Fournier has some gravity.
 

DGreenwood

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I think we all agree that he sucks right now. I don't think he's getting back to normal without playing through this. The Celtics are better off in the playoffs with a normal Fournier instead of a rusty Fournier.
 

TiredParent

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EF has shot poorly since Covid.
EF shot well for his entire career pre-Covid.
EF shot great the two games before Covid.
+- does not mean much on a per game basis, but EF has a positive +- in every game post-Covid, even with his poor shooting.
This lines up with the prior comment about gravity. Teams play EF as a scorer. Therefore, even when he is not shooting well, the damage is limited by the opportunities( open lanes, late close-outs) the attention creates for other Celtics.
While it is clear that EF has not been the solution to the Celtics issues over the past 4 games, he has not been the problem.
I mean, if a poor shooting EF causes the Celtics to lose ground over the rest of their incredibly easy schedule, these Celtics have much bigger issues.
 

Cellar-Door

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Even when seeding is tremendously important?
In game 20 Ok, your good coach examples rings true.
At game 63 Not so sure. We need to play to win every game.
Doling out LARGE mins to a player struggling is not good management.
10-15 hell maybe even 20 mins a game. But 30 plus is not smart.
He's not going to get his legs and lungs back playing 15 MPG... and YES. Seeding in the NBA is largely irrelevant, in particular this year, so long as you don't hit the play-in game.

Also... Fournier hasn't been that bad, he's been bad for Evan Fournier, he's been... averagish for our bench crowd. He was perfectly fine last night, and certainly he hasn't been significantly worse than Romeo or Semi or Grant. His shooting since returning from COVID has been awful, but he's actually been decent at other aspects of the offensive game, and teams respect his shot even if it isn't falling right now.
 

bakahump

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Who would you have taking those minutes?
Langford. Plays D. Especially Last night with the Starters.
I grant that Langford isnt perfect. No one on the bench is. But with our defensive struggles of late and plenty of potential offense with JB and JT available Langford seems like a good solution.
Would EF get run off the bench? yessir. Probably second guy up after PP.
I assume Nesmith would also get some run (as we were admittedly short handed). Once I saw he had something last night then maybe you pivot to a closing 5 of including him and PP. (which Brad did).

...averagish for our bench crowd
Thats Damning with Faint praise. And lets be honest....we have OJ and GWill who we really are pissed off about because they suck. EF "as effective as OJ and GWILL" is NOT a good player.

Hey hoping you guys are right and that he comes back strong.
 

Cellar-Door

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Langford. Plays D. Especially Last night with the Starters.
I grant that Langford isnt perfect. No one on the bench is. But with our defensive struggles of late and plenty of potential offense with JB and JT available Langford seems like a good solution.
Would EF get run off the bench? yessir. Probably second guy up after PP.
I assume Nesmith would also get some run (as we were admittedly short handed). Once I saw he had something last night then maybe you pivot to a closing 5 of including him and PP. (which Brad did).


Thats Damning with Faint praise. And lets be honest....we have OJ and GWill who we really are pissed off about because they suck. EF "as effective as OJ and GWILL" is NOT a good player.

Hey hoping you guys are right and that he comes back strong.
Romeo is a worse offensive player than EF even if Fournier shoots 0-14. I'm a pretty big Romeo supporter, but at his best this year he's been no better than Fournier's worst, and Fournier is likely to be much better if you can get him back to 90%.
 

benhogan

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Romeo is a worse offensive player than EF even if Fournier shoots 0-14. I'm a pretty big Romeo supporter, but at his best this year he's been no better than Fournier's worst, and Fournier is likely to be much better if you can get him back to 90%.
20-25mpg is probably enough for Fournier right now. Poor guy can barely move. Hopefully, over the next 2 weeks, he can work it up to 30 mpg by the playoffs. It seems like it took Tatum 3-4 weeks post-COVID before he was back to himself.
 

slamminsammya

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I know its against the spirit of this thread to overreact based on a small sample of games but I think Evan is a good player. 21 points on 10 shots tonight.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I know its against the spirit of this thread to overreact based on a small sample of games but I think Evan is a good player. 21 points on 10 shots tonight.
He really gives them an element that the team has lacked since they started their ascension. With his presence as well as Pritchard and now perhaps Nesmith, we may at least be done with units that simply cannot score. If Fournier can just do what he has been doing in Orlando the entire Celtics offense will benefit from a spacing perspective alone.