So can SoSH talk about Deflategate again?

RG33

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Bob Kravitz just published an article on The Athletic where he begins to own that Deflategate was a sham. The catalyst is a documentary that is coming out by Julie Marron called "Four Games in Fall". She basically eviscerates the NFL and Roger Goodell -- who shamelessly declined to be interviewed or comment on anything.


It is behind a paywall -- and much more will hopefully come on this. As I mentioned in the Insurrection thread (and others said as well), I have said for years now that if I were a younger man my thesis would be on how "Deflategate" was a precursor to the "Big Lie". Coming off of Lame Duck's demise, I don't think I can handle the schadenfreudegasm that I would have if any of this rolled back up to Goodell. There would also be a bit reserved for all the times MODs have smacked down DFG conversations and references here (somewhat understandably, somewhat frustratingly).

Here were some excerpts for those that do not have subscription to The Athletic (you really should):

But given my involvement, I wanted to speak to Marron, whose compelling documentary makes a strong case that the Deflategate science was flawed, that Exponent, the company hired to investigate the science, was basically a science-for-hire, doubt-science operation and that the NFL’s investigation was deeply flawed as well.

“Based on all the research I’ve done,” Marron said, “I don’t believe anything improper happened. I was very satisfied there wasn’t a scandal; not only wasn’t there a body, but nobody was missing.”
The documentary is decidedly one-sided; no voices are offering the counterargument. But it wasn’t for a lack of trying. Marron and her team reached out to the NFL, reached out to Wells, reached out to Exponent and all of them declined to be interviewed.

“The NFL deliberately lied about things, withheld information and spent months digging in to construct a narrative,” she said. “To me, the fact that they could do this to arguably the most successful player in the league was pretty chilling,”
Here’s where I screwed up:

The next day, legendary ESPN national football reporter Chris Mortensen tweeted that 11 of 12 Patriots footballs came in 2 pounds per square inch lighter than the rules allow. I had no reason to doubt Mort or his source; if he’s broken a thousand stories, 999 of them have been right on target. If this was some no-name blog from some guy in Sheboygan, it wouldn’t have registered, but this was Mort, for crying out loud.

Well, this was the one time he got it wrong because he was provided with bad information. Someone at the NFL was acting in bad faith. This was the one out of a thousand.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Kravitz still thinks there was something going on that night. He's got all the information to the contrary laid out before him and yet he refuses to concede completely.

Fuck him. He admits he got too close to the story and just wanted to believe it was true and cannot and will not give up the idea.

Journalism is dead.
 

Leather

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I, too, have long posited that the collective decision to embrace the schadenfreude at the expense of understanding the truth that was at the heart of Deflategate was a canary in the coalmine for Trump and Q. The parallels are obvious to anyone who cares to look for them. Indifferent people waved it away because it was "just football," but what they ignored was that a lot of people care very, very, much about NFL football.

The quick-hit misinformation, amplified by social media, the exploitation of the audience's aversion to critical thought and science, the ad hominem attacks. It was all there.
 

rodderick

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I see the words "Bob Kravitz" and am instantly reminded of why I'll root against the Colts in every game they play from now until the end of time, no matter the opponent. Fuck that franchise and their "little-brother-complex" media market.
 

Bergs

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Kravitz still thinks there was something going on that night. He's got all the information to the contrary laid out before him and yet he refuses to concede completely.

Fuck him. He admits he got too close to the story and just wanted to believe it was true and cannot and will not give up the idea.

Journalism is dead.
My main issue with this comment is the lack of emphasism in your "fuck him" statement.

While it’s not provable, I believe something untoward occurred in the minutes before the Patriots-Colts game.

But I am open-minded, too, and am always willing to listen to more arguments on either side.

Six years later, there is a seed – just a seed – of doubt.

Fuck you, Kratitz. This whole article reads like an ass-covering non-apology by a guy who knows this documentary might put the public eye back on him and his shit reporting. Fuck you to infinity and back.
 

Phil Plantier

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Kravitz still thinks there was something going on that night. He's got all the information to the contrary laid out before him and yet he refuses to concede completely.

Fuck him. He admits he got too close to the story and just wanted to believe it was true and cannot and will not give up the idea.

Journalism is dead.
I think it's more nuanced than that. The only thing he's really standing by is breaking the story. He repudiates the Mort story. He believes the cell phone evidence more than the science, but he's not committing. He blames the collective bargaining agreement which, whatever.

I appreciate him taking another look at it. He says he has a more open mind, and I'll take him at that. Shouting him down, again, is not going to advance anything.
 

rodderick

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I think it's more nuanced than that. The only thing he's really standing by is breaking the story. He repudiates the Mort story. He believes the cell phone evidence more than the science, but he's not committing. He blames the collective bargaining agreement which, whatever.

I appreciate him taking another look at it. He says he has a more open mind, and I'll take him at that. Shouting him down, again, is not going to advance anything.
Lol, the guy was on "fire Belichick, take all their picks away, tainted dynasty" mode from the jump after a mere report that the Pats were being investigated. Fuck him to hell and back if 6 years later, without a shred of evidence to indicate wrongdoing, he still hangs onto "well, I still believe something weird happened that night".
 

snowmanny

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I take the fact that we have never heard the league mention psi again as a tacit admission that they were full of shit. Again.
 

BaseballJones

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I hope @BaseballJones is featured in the documentary!
Ha! I just saw this thread and naturally it piqued my interest. Was actually thinking of turning my long piece on it into a book. There’s lots more to add to what I put down (which itself was somewhat substantial).
 

Bergs

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I think it's more nuanced than that. The only thing he's really standing by is breaking the story. He repudiates the Mort story. He believes the cell phone evidence more than the science, but he's not committing. He blames the collective bargaining agreement which, whatever.

I appreciate him taking another look at it. He says he has a more open mind, and I'll take him at that. Shouting him down, again, is not going to advance anything.
Did you actually read the article? Slowly? Did you notice that every single line is a deflection or justification? The entire thing is a self-serving logically inconsistent piece of shit written by a guitly party. Fuck him forever and ever again. "He says he has a more open mind?"...sure. And then he proves he doesn't.
 

RG33

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The quick-hit misinformation, amplified by social media, the exploitation of the audience's aversion to critical thought and science, the ad hominem attacks. It was all there.
I also wouldn't discount the large majority of other NFL owners being quite happy to stick it to the "pompous Jew" up in New England. I know from first-hand knowledge that Kraft was vilified by some powerful owners purely because he was Jewish.
 

Marbleheader

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I'll never forgive Collinsworth for bringing it up in the 4th quarter of SB 49. We had two full weeks of it at that point and it was already discussed extensively. He absolutely did it to be a dick.
 

DeadlySplitter

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"its still complicated" it isn't really. I dunno, giving Kravitz too much credit here.

I'll never forget those two weeks. There was a big old snowstorm in between too in Boston.
 

BigSoxFan

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Can we have our draft picks back?
I don't want this to ever get lost. We'll never know how they would have used the pick but here are some guys who went shortly after #32 in 2016:

Emmanuel Ogbah (32)
Jaylon Smith (34)
Hunter Henry (35)
Myles Jack (36)
Chris Jones (37)
Xavien Howard (38)
Derrick Henry (45)
Michael Thomas (47)
Deion Jones (52)

The bogus penalty likely stole an impact player or two, depending on trades, from the franchise.
 

E5 Yaz

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Kravitz will be on the Dan Patrick Radio Show on Wednesday morning.
 

RG33

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I also forgot to point out that I despise Chris Mortensen with every being in my body, and have been rooting for "cancer" the last 6 years. He is a lying piece of shit who also knew he was wrong, left the article/Tweet up purposely, and was doing the bidding of some of his white evangelical owner buddies. Fuck him.
 

BaseballJones

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Bob Kravitz just published an article on The Athletic where he begins to own that Deflategate was a sham. The catalyst is a documentary that is coming out by Julie Marron called "Four Games in Fall". She basically eviscerates the NFL and Roger Goodell -- who shamelessly declined to be interviewed or comment on anything.


It is behind a paywall -- and much more will hopefully come on this. As I mentioned in the Insurrection thread (and others said as well), I have said for years now that if I were a younger man my thesis would be on how "Deflategate" was a precursor to the "Big Lie". Coming off of Lame Duck's demise, I don't think I can handle the schadenfreudegasm that I would have if any of this rolled back up to Goodell. There would also be a bit reserved for all the times MODs have smacked down DFG conversations and references here (somewhat understandably, somewhat frustratingly).

Here were some excerpts for those that do not have subscription to The Athletic (you really should):
I don’t have a subscription to the Atlantic but I'd REALLY love to see the article somehow, given that I have maybe written more on this topic than anyone else in the world (no joke). Other than subscribing, anyone have any idea how I could see the whole article?
 

cornwalls@6

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I also wouldn't discount the large majority of other NFL owners being quite happy to stick it to the "pompous Jew" up in New England. I know from first-hand knowledge that Kraft was vilified by some powerful owners purely because he was Jewish.
Can you elaborate on this? Honestly curious, and adds a sickening element to the story if true.
 

DJnVa

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Kravitz lives in Indy. I know for a fucking certainty that he had to put air in his fucking tires on one of those first cold mornings. That's all the fucking science someone needed. It's not complicated. It's not nuanced. And if is sure as hell not difficult to figure out what happened.

He can sit and spin.
 

Nick Kaufman

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Guys, motivated reasoning -wanting to believe what you want to believe and finding reasons to back it up- existed as long as humans existed.

Nothing was invented because of Deflategate. And I think I ve said it before. When I see millions of people earnestly believe something that I think it's wrong, this is humbling for me as well, because it forces me to ask what kind of beliefs do I have that are wrong and I don't see them.
 

Bergs

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I don’t have a subscription to the Atlantic but I'd REALLY love to see the article somehow, given that I have maybe written more on this topic than anyone else in the world (no joke). Other than subscribing, anyone have any idea how I could see the whole article?
PM me with an email address.
 

Phil Plantier

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Did you actually read the article? Slowly? Did you notice that every single line is a deflection or justification? The entire thing is a self-serving logically inconsistent piece of shit written by a guitly party. Fuck him forever and ever again. "He says he has a more open mind?"...sure. And then he proves he doesn't.
I mean, I guess I should reveal my bias here: I cannot comprehend the persecution that you (and others) feel about this topic.

It's like the Raiders complaining about the Tuck Rule, except if the Raiders won the game.

The Patriots won the Super Bowl that year. The four games off may have actually *helped* Brady win the Super Bowl that year too.

I hate cultural explanations for things, but it's the only thing I can come up with for how much anger people have for a penalty that had no effect on anything.
 

lostjumper

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I want to watch the documentary, but I'm sure I would get furious all over again. Not sure if it's worth it.

I also forgot to point out that I despise Chris Mortensen with every being in my body, and have been rooting for "cancer" the last 6 years. He is a lying piece of shit who also knew he was wrong, left the article/Tweet up purposely, and was doing the bidding of some of his white evangelical owner buddies. Fuck him.
So I wasn't the only one? I never verbalized it because it's not a nice thing, but I'm rooting for cancer in Mortensens case. I rarely watch ESPN anymore, but if I do and see him on there, it's an immediate click off. He knowingly lied for his owner buddies and league sources. He's had 6 years to correct it, and refuses to. Chris Mortensen and Journalism should never be uttered in the same phrase.

Great, and now I'm pissed off again about the whole thing.
 

cornwalls@6

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I mean, I guess I should reveal my bias here: I cannot comprehend the persecution that you (and others) feel about this topic.

It's like the Raiders complaining about the Tuck Rule, except if the Raiders won the game.

The Patriots won the Super Bowl that year. The four games off may have actually *helped* Brady win the Super Bowl that year too.

I hate cultural explanations for things, but it's the only thing I can come up with for how much anger people have for a penalty that had no effect on anything.
You don't think lost no. 1 draft picks effect anything?
 

BaseballJones

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I take the fact that we have never heard the league mention psi again as a tacit admission that they were full of shit. Again.
Oh boy this thread is going to get me going. Here's some of my words from the end of my 60-page (single-spaced) work regarding Goodell's promise of investigating air pressure in 2015:

- - -

Moreover, the NFL purported to be testing the psi in footballs all during the 2015 season. Here’s what they said they would do: At designated games, selected at random, the game balls used in the first half will be collected by the [kicking ball coordinator] at halftime, and the League’s Security Representative will escort the KBC with the footballs to the Officials’ Locker room. During halftime, each game ball for both teams will be inspected in the locker room by designated members of the officiating and security crews, and the PSI results will be measured and recorded. Once measured, those game balls will then be secured and removed from play. Instead, when the season was over, the NFL declined to share the data. Here was Roger Goodell’s explanation:

“We do spot checks to prevent and make sure the clubs understand that we’re watching these issues. It wasn’t a research study. They simply were spot checks. There were no violations this year. We’re pleased that we haven’t had any violations and we continue the work, obviously, to consistently and importantly enforce the integrity of the game and the rules that are designed to protect it.”(1)

So what happened, almost certainly, is that the NFL recorded numbers and realized that, in fact, the laws of physics apply to NFL footballs, and that every team playing a game in cold weather games was certainly playing with under inflated footballs. Just like the scientists at MIT, Carnegie-Mellon, and many other prestigious institutions had said.


(1) http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/new-england-patriots/goodell-nfl-wont-share-years-psi- numbers
57
 

rodderick

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I mean, I guess I should reveal my bias here: I cannot comprehend the persecution that you (and others) feel about this topic.

It's like the Raiders complaining about the Tuck Rule, except if the Raiders won the game.

The Patriots won the Super Bowl that year. The four games off may have actually *helped* Brady win the Super Bowl that year too.

I hate cultural explanations for things, but it's the only thing I can come up with for how much anger people have for a penalty that had no effect on anything.
As someone who's a Pats fan from outside the US and only experiences NFL fandom through internet communities, it was at least 2 years in which I just couldn't talk football to anyone outside of SoSH without deflategate bullshit and the lazy jokes completely dominating the conversation. It sucked and every fan that says they don't care about how their team is viewed or if people believe their accomplishments to be genuine is lying.
 

Bergs

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I mean, I guess I should reveal my bias here: I cannot comprehend the persecution that you (and others) feel about this topic.
Imagine you see this as a cultural precursor to Trumpism. Because a lot of us do.

Imagine you actually care about due process and the notion of fairness. Because a lot of us do.

Imagine that first round draft picks actually matter. Because they do.

Imagine having a quarter of a million dollars stolen from you. Because it was from Tom Brady.
 
Last edited:

Salem's Lot

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Not only was this a completely made up farce that screwed the Patriots out of probably 1-2 impact players and destroyed the national reputation of the most accomplished franchise in the Super Bowl era, it also demonstrated to political propaganda operatives how easy it is to manipulate people in this country through constant social media barrages of misinformation. I don’t know if this gave Steve Bannon the idea of the “flood the zone with bull shit” process, but it definitely showed him that it can work.
 

Shelterdog

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I still can't get over a couple of the facts:
1.) one of the two gauges they used to measure the balls was broken
2.) the report switches which ref was using which gauge from their actual recollection with the explanation that that fits the data they have.
3.) they make a lot of one of the guys saying "i've got a big needle for u" that weekend as proof of their consppriacy, which anyone who knows anything about dudes like that is totally a dick joke.
 

BigSoxFan

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You don't think lost no. 1 draft picks effect anything?
Yeah, I literally just posted a list of NFL stars who were drafted right after the pick the Pats lost. That penalty had some serious teeth. Imagine having Xavien Howard instead of the crap they had in the secondary against the Eagles, for instance. You just never know.
 

BaseballJones

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Kravitz lives in Indy. I know for a fucking certainty that he had to put air in his fucking tires on one of those first cold mornings. That's all the fucking science someone needed. It's not complicated. It's not nuanced. And if is sure as hell not difficult to figure out what happened.

He can sit and spin.
My kids hate me when it gets cold here in New England in late fall, early winter. Because they get in, and my tire pressure light comes on, and by now they know the drill - I look at them and they just say, "I KNOW DAD!!! COLD TEMPERATURES REDUCE AIR PRESSURE!! I GOT IT!" And they know exactly what I'm referring to without even mentioning it.
 

drbretto

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No bullshit, deflategate was a fascinating phenomenon for me. As a curious person. In fact, it was my first large-scale example of watching an emergent "truth" come from nothing. It's a really, really interesting worldwide science experiment. It's basically the same effect that brings us flat earthers and Qanon, as far as I'm concerned. Not at all limited to football.
 

bankshot1

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I look forward to Sean Spicer's, Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Kayleigh McEnany's mea culpas years from now that they were too close to the story.

Screw "Bag job Bob" Kravitz
 

RG33

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Can you elaborate on this? Honestly curious, and adds a sickening element to the story if true.
My in-laws were involved with one of the NFL teams and it was well known, discussed, said out loud, how much disdain the majority owner had for the "Jew in New England". And it was told to me that this was not an uncommon feeling in NFL owner circles, and that Kraft was perceived as arrogant and unbecoming, and that his successes with the Patriots in a multitude of ways (championships, media coverage, stadium situtation) were very large sore thumbs amongst the "good ol' boy" crowd in NFL ownership .
 

BaseballJones

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I'll help edit, if you like. ;)
I'll take you up on that if I pursue it. This documentary might take some of the starch out of the idea, but the fact is, I could easily turn my work into a book. And there might be a few people interested in reading it perhaps.
 

Shelterdog

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My in-laws were involved with one of the NFL teams and it was well known, discussed, said out loud, how much disdain the majority owner had for the "Jew in New England". And it was told to me that this was not an uncommon feeling in NFL owner circles, and that Kraft was perceived as arrogant and unbecoming, and that his successes with the Patriots in a multitude of ways (championships, media coverage, stadium situtation) were very large sore thumbs amongst the "good ol' boy" crowd in NFL ownership .
Who are the good old boys? Giants, Raiders, Bengals, Bears, Lions, Steelers, 49ers, maybe the saints or texans but I'm struggling to name other super long established teams
 

Captaincoop

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No bullshit, deflategate was a fascinating phenomenon for me. As a curious person. In fact, it was my first large-scale example of watching an emergent "truth" come from nothing. It's a really, really interesting worldwide science experiment. It's basically the same effect that brings us flat earthers and Qanon, as far as I'm concerned. Not at all limited to football.
If that was the first time you noticed a patently bullshit story become "truth", and you're over 15 years old, then you just weren't paying enough attention prior to that.
 

Van Everyman

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I also wouldn't discount the large majority of other NFL owners being quite happy to stick it to the "pompous Jew" up in New England. I know from first-hand knowledge that Kraft was vilified by some powerful owners purely because he was Jewish.
Care to elaborate? “First-hand knowledge” would suggest that you directly heard an NFL owner use anti-Semitic language against Kraft.

I don’t know. I hated Kravitz as much as anyone when all this was happening. And I’m sure he is dreading coming back under the microscope so wants to deflect. Which he does here.

But he’s also owning a fair amount here, regretting the Belichick should be canned tweets in particular and how he bought into the idea that the story must be true bc he was so invested in it being true.

I also don’t think it’s exactly controversial to conclude that the excuses for the “Deflator” texts were weak – I’m not saying they’re proof or anything but did we ever get an explanation for that that isn’t a joke? Combined with the Pats’ reputation for bending the rules, I think a lot of people can reasonably conclude that something may well have transpired. What they can’t say—which Kravitz acknowledges here—is that there’s any proof at all.

I’m not sure what else we want from the guy. He’s basically concluding that he thinks his gut was right but there’s really no evidence to suggest it, there were a ton of agendas at play and that the investigation was a complete joke.

Why do we always need people to come running down the aisle like the Senator in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington screaming “I was wrong! I’m the one who should be expelled!”
 

wiffleballhero

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In the simulacrum

I hope this little twerp enjoys the NFCCG.

(I know he ate crow later)

As for the antisemitism issue with Deflategate, I am positive that back in the summer of Deflategate we had a pretty extensive go-round with this issue and the more general anti-New England-liberals element in the national hostility to the Pats. I'm not going back through those threads myself, but it is there. I think it is accurate critique too: part of the hatred of the Pats is wrapped up in only thinly veiled other hostilities, including antisemitism.
 

snowmanny

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Oh boy this thread is going to get me going. Here's some of my words from the end of my 60-page (single-spaced) work regarding Goodell's promise of investigating air pressure in 2015:

- - -

Moreover, the NFL purported to be testing the psi in footballs all during the 2015 season. Here’s what they said they would do: At designated games, selected at random, the game balls used in the first half will be collected by the [kicking ball coordinator] at halftime, and the League’s Security Representative will escort the KBC with the footballs to the Officials’ Locker room. During halftime, each game ball for both teams will be inspected in the locker room by designated members of the officiating and security crews, and the PSI results will be measured and recorded. Once measured, those game balls will then be secured and removed from play. Instead, when the season was over, the NFL declined to share the data. Here was Roger Goodell’s explanation:

“We do spot checks to prevent and make sure the clubs understand that we’re watching these issues. It wasn’t a research study. They simply were spot checks. There were no violations this year. We’re pleased that we haven’t had any violations and we continue the work, obviously, to consistently and importantly enforce the integrity of the game and the rules that are designed to protect it.”(1)

So what happened, almost certainly, is that the NFL recorded numbers and realized that, in fact, the laws of physics apply to NFL footballs, and that every team playing a game in cold weather games was certainly playing with under inflated footballs. Just like the scientists at MIT, Carnegie-Mellon, and many other prestigious institutions had said.


(1) http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/new-england-patriots/goodell-nfl-wont-share-years-psi- numbers
57
Yeah somebody should definitely check the Bucs balls on Sunday, right?