Sixers thread: now with expectations

LondonSox

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While Fultz is important to the long term the short term is being killed by the combo of him and saric. I have no idea what is up with saric but he's been brutal so far.
The starting line up was the best in the NBA last year by net rating. It's awful now.

Saric has started slow every year so there's so hope at least.

Team should let Fultz shine leading the second unit and attacking the rim etc, Simmons benefits from JJ and maybe this can help saric get back to normal.

Only good news is Embiid has been great. Rough start everywhere else really.
 

LondonSox

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Sixers bench doesn't have enough shooting for Fultz to simply attack the rim .
I mean broadly yes but better him doing that without Simmons, they have Covington, JJ, Shamet, Chandler, Muscala and saric
There's no reason not to have 2/3 shooters

Dario's best game of the season tonight, hopefully that gets him going
 

snowmanny

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Something is wrong with that GIF. It sort of skips and pauses in the middle. Do you have another view?
 

snowmanny

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Thank you.

Although I was kidding. It's so bad it looks fake
 

HomeRunBaker

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Is that even allowed? It would be a great way to draw lane infractions.
From my recollection back when I played is that you cannot purposely fake a free throw to draw a violation and that it must be the shooters natural release. Years ago, (the late) Anthony Mason used to stop at the top of his release and it did cause many violations legally because this was his natural motion. Who the hell knows how a referee would interpret whatever it was that video just showed.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Holy shit. Perhaps just as troubling for Sixers fans, from the Deadspin link:


"Markelle Fultz and Drew Hanlen are no longer working together or on speaking terms, according to league sources. No word on why the two parted ways, but their relationship deteriorated about three weeks ago. Prior to this falling out, Fultz spent the summer training with Hanlen."

Not on speaking terms? Yikes.
 

bosox79

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From my recollection back when I played is that you cannot purposely fake a free throw to draw a violation and that it must be the shooters natural release. Years ago, (the late) Anthony Mason used to stop at the top of his release and it did cause many violations legally because this was his natural motion. Who the hell knows how a referee would interpret whatever it was that video just showed.
Chuck Hayes used to do it too and would draw tons of violations.
 

the moops

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I think Drew Hanlen was like, "shit, there is no way I can fix this dude, I gotta get out from this before people think of me when they say his name"
 

HomeRunBaker

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With Hayes and Mason, they pause. Fultz pump fakes.


Right.....but it is the officials discretion whether this is a fake or the shooters natural form. With Fultz' shot changing so much I can't imagine an official interpreting this as nothing more than his FT form.
 

The Needler

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Tonight was also Markelle's 7th straight game without attempting a three. I think we can fairly say he's not fixed at this point.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Seven straight games without attempting a three? Wow. On a couple podcasts people were asking if the Wolves should have gotten Fultz, or tried to, and the answer was overwhelmingly that he has zero value, zero. Poor kid. I'm rooting for him, besides when he is playing the Cs.
 

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That spasm thing was really weird. Oh, and he’s claiming the ball “slipped” on that free throw attempt.
Jimmy Butler is going to love this kid....
Fultz is a problem but I also wonder about Embiid and Butler. That combination seems like it could result in a great working relationship or two guys who cannot stand each other. The thing to note is that this has been Embiid and Simmons' team for the past ~two seasons and now its going to be Butler as the leader. It will probably be fine but it bears watching.

Back to Fultz, I will be surprised if he is in Philadelphia after this season. He really needs to go to a team where they can take a gamble on him and he can develop without the media being all over him. If he indeed had a falling out with Hanlen, it raises some more questions about the guy too. Just an unfortunate situation.
 

Apisith

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Will Butler be the leader? Embiid is an MVP candidate, he just put up 38/15 today. He’s going to be the player who determines how far they go. Let’s see if Butler can adapt to this.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Will Butler be the leader? Embiid is an MVP candidate, he just put up 38/15 today. He’s going to be the player who determines how far they go. Let’s see if Butler can adapt to this.
We don't know much about Butler aside from the media reporting on him but he appears to be a guy who views himself as the alpha on his teams. Perhaps he will defer to Embiid or perhaps Embiid (and Simmons) will defer to their veteran star player. Either way, chemistry means something in the NBA so it will be fascinating to watch how he meshes with the young 76ers, especially since it cost them two of their "homegrown" players who seemed to be part of a tight unit.
 

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Will Butler be the leader? Embiid is an MVP candidate, he just put up 38/15 today. He’s going to be the player who determines how far they go. Let’s see if Butler can adapt to this.
Wilson Chandler is the leader of that team as the respected veteran . Butler will be competing with him for that role as well as with Embiid for alpha-dog role on the floor. Lots of fun (or maybe drama) dynamics for these Sixers and I'd expect them to be busy prior to the trade deadline in building some depth behind their top-5 with arguably the thinnest bench in the league and unquestionably the weakest 2nd unit among playoff contenders (assuming Redick moves into starting lineup).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If he indeed had a falling out with Hanlen, it raises some more questions about the guy too. Just an unfortunate situation.
I wonder if the falling out had anything to do with Hanlen's tweet - immediately deleted - that Fultz is still not healthy (I posted the tweet above but here's a different article laying it out and also speculating that this is at least part of the cause for the break: https://www.libertyballers.com/2018/11/12/18090342/the-markelle-fultz-situation-just-got-weirder).
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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This video seems pretty concerning to me. I mean it isn't the way healthy bodies act/react . . . .
I think he was tightening his shoes, and he was trying to use the traction of the floor to make sure his foot was all the way in. He just happened to do it like a spaz.

The free throw and Hanlen stuff is very concerning, however. I know we never want to see young kids fail, but the hoops people jumped through to try and rationalize a clear case of the yips was weird.

Dudes broke. He probably will not get fixed. That sucks.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Wilson Chandler? No fucking chance Butler takes a back seat to him for respected veteran .
Poster asked if it would be Butler or Embiid. I only pointed out that I'd assume it is currently Chandler as he is a powerful voice off the floor.
 

cheech13

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Bringing in Butler is bad news for any sort of Fultz reclamation. He needs the ball in his hands and that's even less likely with one more ball-stopper on the roster. What he needs is a low pressure environment where he can play through his mistakes. A trade to Phoenix or Orlando would make a ton of sense, but I don't know that either team has anything that would interest Philly.
 

BigSoxFan

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Would PHI and PHX be interested in a bust swap of Fultz and Jackson? I do agree that Ariza would be a great addition for PHI but he'd have a lot of suitors if PHX made him available so they'd probably have to kick in some real value.
 

cheech13

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Would PHI and PHX be interested in a bust swap of Fultz and Jackson? I do agree that Ariza would be a great addition for PHI but he'd have a lot of suitors if PHX made him available so they'd probably have to kick in some real value.
I know the my-problem-for-your-problem trades are fun to throw out, but I'm not sure that a wing that can't defend or shoot makes a ton of sense for Philadelphia either. They need another shooter. A deal to Cleveland for Korver makes the most sense, but the Cavs already have their PG of the future.
 

BigSoxFan

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I know the my-problem-for-your-problem trades are fun to throw out, but I'm not sure that a wing that can't defend or shoot makes a ton of sense for Philadelphia either. They need another shooter. A deal to Cleveland for Korver makes the most sense, but the Cavs already have their PG of the future.
For me, it's less about roster fit and more about retaining value for a depreciating asset. There aren't going to be a whole lot of takers for Fultz but I think he'd be a worthwhile gamble for a team like PHX that has absolutely nothing at PG. Spacing would be better for him working off a guy like Booker. Jackson to PHI would be more of a value play to get something for Fultz. But, if PHI is more concerned about the immediate need, you could have a 3 way trade with Fultz to PHI, Shooter X going to PHI, and Jackson to Team #3 with filler added to make salaries work.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Bringing in Butler is bad news for any sort of Fultz reclamation. He needs the ball in his hands and that's even less likely with one more ball-stopper on the roster. What he needs is a low pressure environment where he can play through his mistakes. A trade to Phoenix or Orlando would make a ton of sense, but I don't know that either team has anything that would interest Philly.
Fultz value is nil. Anyway the Sixers can get his remaining $16m+ off the books over these next two years is a win. The question really should be who would be willing to absorb that type of money on a flier who hasn't shown improvement in year two? Phoenix maybe? Clippers because Ballmer doesn't give two shits about money? Brooklyn as part of all their combo guards? The last seems unlikely as he's exactly the type of player you don't want to trade to a divisional opponent should he somehow fix himself.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I know the my-problem-for-your-problem trades are fun to throw out, but I'm not sure that a wing that can't defend or shoot makes a ton of sense for Philadelphia either. They need another shooter. A deal to Cleveland for Korver makes the most sense, but the Cavs already have their PG of the future.
How does Fultz bring back anything in return? He'd be easy to move if he were a low-1st rounder with reasonable contract to take a flier on but maybe Jackson is a fit if Phoenix is also looking to move him. I'd imagine the Sixers would need to throw in a pick with him though.
 

JCizzle

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The relationship between Markelle Fultz & Drew Hanlen deteriorated when a member of Fultz’ camp colorfully confronted Hanlen in person about a lack of expected results, sources familiar with the situation have told Liberty Ballers. Hanlen declined to comment on the situation.
Apparently the Fultz-Hanlen split is not over the injury leak.
 

cheech13

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How does Fultz bring back anything in return? He'd be easy to move if he were a low-1st rounder with reasonable contract to take a flier on but maybe Jackson is a fit if Phoenix is also looking to move him. I'd imagine the Sixers would need to throw in a pick with him though.
Fultz is drawing a ton of attention for his problems, and rightly so, but Josh Jackson couldn't possibly have much more value than him. He's been awful in every single facet of the game. At least Fultz can pass and score around the rim. Those are actual NBA traits to build on even if he can't shoot.

That's not to say Fultz has actual value, but if he's going in a deal for Jackson Philly wouldn't be sending a pick, too.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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Fultz is drawing a ton of attention for his problems, and rightly so, but Josh Jackson couldn't possibly have much more value than him. He's been awful in every single facet of the game. At least Fultz can pass and score around the rim. Those are actual NBA traits to build on even if he can't shoot.

That's not to say Fultz has actual value, but if he's going in a deal for Jackson Philly wouldn't be sending a pick, too.
Fultz has an additional $10m owed to him. Assuming neither has any trade value whatever Phoenix requires in return would have to equal or exceed $10m in value. That was my only point in a good draft pick having to be included back.
 

The Needler

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Fultz is drawing a ton of attention for his problems, and rightly so, but Josh Jackson couldn't possibly have much more value than him. He's been awful in every single facet of the game. At least Fultz can pass and score around the rim. Those are actual NBA traits to build on even if he can't shoot.
I think this take on JJ is a little bit warm. There are still obviously concerns about his game, but it's way too early to conclude he has no value. It seems clear Igor doesn't like him; that has affected his playing time and likely his play when he does get in. But he's still just 21, and he was a legit NBA player as a 20-year old rookie for the better part of last year. (His last 29 games last season, per 36: 21.3 pts, 7.0 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.5 stl, .8 blk). He's not a bust yet, but I think a change of scenery from a putrid team and a new coach who's not a fan would do him good.
 

cheech13

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I think this take on JJ is a little bit warm. There are still obviously concerns about his game, but it's way too early to conclude he has no value. It seems clear Igor doesn't like him; that has affected his playing time and likely his play when he does get in. But he's still just 21, and he was a legit NBA player as a 20-year old rookie for the better part of last year. (His last 29 games last season, per 36: 21.3 pts, 7.0 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.5 stl, .8 blk). He's not a bust yet, but I think a change of scenery from a putrid team and a new coach who's not a fan would do him good.
No, I'm not writing off Josh Jackson at all. My point was that is if consensus is that Fultz has no value because he can't shoot, then Josh Jackson doesn't either since he hasn't shown the ability to shoot, or really do anything else, at an NBA level yet. I do think there are teams that would still take a flier on either, FWIW.
 

The Needler

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No, I'm not writing off Josh Jackson at all. My point was that is if consensus is that Fultz has no value because he can't shoot, then Josh Jackson doesn't either since he hasn't shown the ability to shoot, or really do anything else, at an NBA level yet. I do think there are teams that would still take a flier on either, FWIW.
Again, I disagree with the bolded. He was a good player in the second half of last year. He scored at least 15 points in each of his last 12 games, averaging 21.8. I think that's NBA level.

And yeah, if you mean he hasn't shown the ability to shoot from 3, that's certainly true, but there are levels of not being able to shoot, and JJ and Fultz are on two different ones. JJ has shot 37.7% from 3ft - 3pt in has career thus far, while Fultz has shot 27.2%. (As a comparative data point, Jaylen shot 35.9% from that distance last season.)
 

HomeRunBaker

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Again, I disagree with the bolded. He was a good player in the second half of last year. He scored at least 15 points in each of his last 12 games, averaging 21.8. I think that's NBA level.
I give JJ a greater chance to carve out a niche in this league than Fultz based on him not dealing with whatever Fultz is struggling with. Those last 12 games in '17-'18 however when JJ had the freedom to do as he pleased with no threats around him while playing against opponents generally going through the motions against the Suns didn't show me anything other than JJ's flaws. Somebody had to score points even in those blowout losses.
 

The Needler

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I give JJ a greater chance to carve out a niche in this league than Fultz based on him not dealing with whatever Fultz is struggling with. Those last 12 games in '17-'18 however when JJ had the freedom to do as he pleased with no threats around him while playing against opponents generally going through the motions against the Suns didn't show me anything other than JJ's flaws. Somebody had to score points even in those blowout losses.
It was hardly a fluke. He also scored at least 16 points in 13 out of 17 games from late January to early march while averaging under 30 minutes a game. I mean, he averaged more than 18 per 36 over the whole season; the kid can score. His team, and having his third coach in a year are not helping his development.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It was hardly a fluke. He also scored at least 16 points in 13 out of 17 games from late January to early march while averaging under 30 minutes a game. I mean, he averaged more than 18 per 36 over the whole season; the kid can score. His team, and having his third coach in a year are not helping his development.
I didn't say it was a fluke it's just that somebody has to score points for the team even when they are down 20+ points. Marathon Brooks scored 20 a game in these same losses last year......that alone doesn't make him much of a prospect either.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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No, I'm not writing off Josh Jackson at all. My point was that is if consensus is that Fultz has no value because he can't shoot, then Josh Jackson doesn't either since he hasn't shown the ability to shoot, or really do anything else, at an NBA level yet. I do think there are teams that would still take a flier on either, FWIW.
He can play defense at a NBA level. He's also very good in transition.

JJ is an elite athlete even for NBA standards who also has a high motor. He might not have top-notch BBallIQ or skills but how often do great athletes who play hard wash out of the NBA?

Article I saw suggested that JJ might have Evan Turner's career path. That sounds right to me as a floor.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He can play defense at a NBA level. He's also very good in transition.

JJ is an elite athlete even for NBA standards who also has a high motor. He might not have top-notch BBallIQ or skills but how often do great athletes who play hard wash out of the NBA?

Article I saw suggested that JJ might have Evan Turner's career path. That sounds right to me as a floor.
That's the thing about JJ that has confused everyone from his college days. He ISN'T playing hard which may have a lot to do with his trouble grasping defensive schemes. Much like Fultz, he's a flier on a team who wishes to only risk the money due to him.