http://nypost.com/2014/01/06/sather-must-decide-is-dealing-girardi-best-for-rangers/
Should the Bruins consider going after Dan Girardi? Would a contract for him after this season fit into their salary cap? What would a fair price be for him?
Should the Bruins go after Dan Girardi?
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Should the Bruins consider going after Dan Girardi? Would a contract for him after this season fit into their salary cap? What would a fair price be for him?
I guess it all depends on if he would be willing to sign here after this season.
The kids have been all right so far - but it never hurts to add a high quality defensmen on the right side of 30.
If the Bruins can find a taker for Boychuk, I imagine they can probably get Girardi under the cap next season.
The kids have been all right so far - but it never hurts to add a high quality defensmen on the right side of 30.
If the Bruins can find a taker for Boychuk, I imagine they can probably get Girardi under the cap next season.
What would the offer have to be? Khokhlachev and Morrow? Less? Presumably Spooner is off the table.
As always it depends on the price. If they ask for Spooner, Hamilton & a 1st Chiarelli should laugh & hang up. If there willing to take the Iginla package of Kohklachev, Bartkowski and a 1st then sure.
This is a tough decision. On the one hand, Girardi's a solid #2 defenseman - excellent defensively and will do ok for you on offense, and it's always good to get solid defensemen.
On the other hand, this team been has pretty good defensively this season - 2nd in the league in GA/G and while they have given up 12 goals in 4 the games he's been out, I'd hate to overreact to a very small sample. While they are sixth in the league in scoring by G/G currently, they have struggled at times to find consistency, so losing offensive prospects who might help there, even if only in the future, is tough.
The guy's a carbon copy of Seidenberg at the time we acquired him - about .3 pts/game, about 6'1'', about 210 lbs. It only took us Byron Bitz, Craig Weller and a 2nd rounder to get him and Matt Bartkowski. That was a fleecing, so I'd expect to give up more, but Koko/Spooner, Bart/Warsofsky and a 1st seems like too much especially since we'd be even NHL D depth-wise after the trade since Bart/Warsofsky would be gone.
On the other hand, this team been has pretty good defensively this season - 2nd in the league in GA/G and while they have given up 12 goals in 4 the games he's been out, I'd hate to overreact to a very small sample. While they are sixth in the league in scoring by G/G currently, they have struggled at times to find consistency, so losing offensive prospects who might help there, even if only in the future, is tough.
The guy's a carbon copy of Seidenberg at the time we acquired him - about .3 pts/game, about 6'1'', about 210 lbs. It only took us Byron Bitz, Craig Weller and a 2nd rounder to get him and Matt Bartkowski. That was a fleecing, so I'd expect to give up more, but Koko/Spooner, Bart/Warsofsky and a 1st seems like too much especially since we'd be even NHL D depth-wise after the trade since Bart/Warsofsky would be gone.
In the past, Boychuk has shown that he is a more than capable partner for Chara. Those two together (or Hamilton with Chara and Boychuk with Bartkowski) should be a fine solution for the rest of the regular season.
The need IMO is to get a LH-shot to slot into Bartkowski's current role, and who can play the right side if needed as part of a shut-down pair with Chara. In the postseason, Julien can have Boychuk/Hamilton slide down and pair with Bartkowski/Krug, presumably with McQuaid as #7.
Looking at impending UFAs, the crop is pretty thin as far as guys who have the mobility and defensive acumen to slide in alongside Chara - particularly from teams that look like they're going to be out of it:
Nick Schultz (EDM) - $3.5m
Henrik Tallinder (BUF) - $3.375m
Dan Girardi (NYR) - $3.325m
Nikita Nikitin (CLB) - $2.15m
Stephane Robidas (DAL) - $3.3m
Andrew MacDonald (NYI) - $550k
My favorite guy from that list is Nikitin, who I believe is pretty undervalued across the league - very respectable relative CORSI, had a positive zone start differential each of the past 3 seasons, and has started most of his shifts in the defensive zone in the same period. With Kekalainen being a forward-thinking, stats-oriented GM, I don't think he'd come cheap, but a prospect like Khokhlachev and a pick (2nd or 3rd) for him would be tempting.
Tallinder is most likely cooked, but could come cheap (i.e. a 2nd rounder). Schultz is not a very attractive option either.
A lot of people like MacDonald, but he's been consistently among NYI's worst defenders by relative CORSI. He eats ice time, but not especially well.
Guys like Girardi/Robidas would be great to have, but I'm worried that they're cost-prohibitive. Moreover, Girardi's a guy with a lot of shot-block mileage on his body (not unlike Seidenberg) - with what the B's currently have on the books, I would think they're looking at Girardi as a rental. Anything more than a prospect and a first for him given this team's current situation would be an overpay, and I think teams (especially those with long-term interest in Girardi) will blow that offer out of the water.
edit: There's also the Mark Stuart option, but IMO they'd only go with him if they had full confidence in a Chara/Boychuk, Stuart/Hamilton top-4. Which I would doubt.
edit 2: on the non-UFA front, Dmitri Kulikov would be very appealing, but he's likely to go for a lot more than he's worth
The need IMO is to get a LH-shot to slot into Bartkowski's current role, and who can play the right side if needed as part of a shut-down pair with Chara. In the postseason, Julien can have Boychuk/Hamilton slide down and pair with Bartkowski/Krug, presumably with McQuaid as #7.
Looking at impending UFAs, the crop is pretty thin as far as guys who have the mobility and defensive acumen to slide in alongside Chara - particularly from teams that look like they're going to be out of it:
Nick Schultz (EDM) - $3.5m
Henrik Tallinder (BUF) - $3.375m
Dan Girardi (NYR) - $3.325m
Nikita Nikitin (CLB) - $2.15m
Stephane Robidas (DAL) - $3.3m
Andrew MacDonald (NYI) - $550k
My favorite guy from that list is Nikitin, who I believe is pretty undervalued across the league - very respectable relative CORSI, had a positive zone start differential each of the past 3 seasons, and has started most of his shifts in the defensive zone in the same period. With Kekalainen being a forward-thinking, stats-oriented GM, I don't think he'd come cheap, but a prospect like Khokhlachev and a pick (2nd or 3rd) for him would be tempting.
Tallinder is most likely cooked, but could come cheap (i.e. a 2nd rounder). Schultz is not a very attractive option either.
A lot of people like MacDonald, but he's been consistently among NYI's worst defenders by relative CORSI. He eats ice time, but not especially well.
Guys like Girardi/Robidas would be great to have, but I'm worried that they're cost-prohibitive. Moreover, Girardi's a guy with a lot of shot-block mileage on his body (not unlike Seidenberg) - with what the B's currently have on the books, I would think they're looking at Girardi as a rental. Anything more than a prospect and a first for him given this team's current situation would be an overpay, and I think teams (especially those with long-term interest in Girardi) will blow that offer out of the water.
edit: There's also the Mark Stuart option, but IMO they'd only go with him if they had full confidence in a Chara/Boychuk, Stuart/Hamilton top-4. Which I would doubt.
edit 2: on the non-UFA front, Dmitri Kulikov would be very appealing, but he's likely to go for a lot more than he's worth
FWIW, St. Louis gave up Reto Berra, Mark Cundari and a 1st round pick for Jay Bouwmeester last year. So you're probably looking at that as a comp an starting point. Jay Bouw had a year left on his deal, so it's not entirely comparable but it's similar. Top 4 defenseman don't hit the market often.
I would love Girardi on the B's. Chara will be 37 in March, and even though he is a physical marvel, that's getting up there in hockey years. Seidenberg will be 33 next season. An under-30 top-pair D man signed to 4 or 5 years would do a lot for this club.
But, of course, at what cost? To me, the only untouchable prospects are Spooner and Subban, but I assume Sather will want at least one, maybe two players off the NHL roster. He needs NHL-ready talent. Are people here willing to trade Paille? Kelly? Soderberg?
But, of course, at what cost? To me, the only untouchable prospects are Spooner and Subban, but I assume Sather will want at least one, maybe two players off the NHL roster. He needs NHL-ready talent. Are people here willing to trade Paille? Kelly? Soderberg?
They just re-upped Lundqvist so I assume they wouldn't necessarily ask for Subban anyway.
Do you guys really feel like Girardi is/might be the piece that puts you over the top? Personally I hate rentals, I hate giving up value for them and I hate giving up value and then watching them walk in July. And based on Phaneuf and other recent deals you are looking at something like 5/30 or 6/36 to extend him, at least.
If I'm the Chiarelli I let January and the Olympics play out and see where I am, particularly in terms of health. If we're back from the Olympic break and everybody is healthy (other than Seids of course) then maybe you do it, or go after somebody like Nikitin. But it would suck to give up value for Girardi and then have Krejci or Bergy go down and your chances go down the crapper after you've given up assets for a rental.
Edit: This is all assuming the Rags are even selling. The Patrick Division (damned if I'm calling it the Metro, stupid name) is a crapshoot and the Rangers could be a playoff team depending on what the Caps, Flyers, and others do in the next month or so.
Do you guys really feel like Girardi is/might be the piece that puts you over the top? Personally I hate rentals, I hate giving up value for them and I hate giving up value and then watching them walk in July. And based on Phaneuf and other recent deals you are looking at something like 5/30 or 6/36 to extend him, at least.
If I'm the Chiarelli I let January and the Olympics play out and see where I am, particularly in terms of health. If we're back from the Olympic break and everybody is healthy (other than Seids of course) then maybe you do it, or go after somebody like Nikitin. But it would suck to give up value for Girardi and then have Krejci or Bergy go down and your chances go down the crapper after you've given up assets for a rental.
Edit: This is all assuming the Rags are even selling. The Patrick Division (damned if I'm calling it the Metro, stupid name) is a crapshoot and the Rangers could be a playoff team depending on what the Caps, Flyers, and others do in the next month or so.
They're going to want NHL ready prospects with upside for Girardi. I don't think our 4th liners and a 28 year old that might bolt back to Sweden if he gets traded will get it done. Just think about it if the Bruins were in NY's position and Seidenberg was a UFA, would you take Brassard, Dorset or Hagelin for him?Jordu said:
My opinion is no.
Bruins need is a LH defenseman, Giradi is a RH defenseman. Everything I have read this year from Ranger types indicate he has lost a step. Plus I believe he is a guy who's value is driven up because he has played in NYC in recent years.
The price thrown around is something like #1, Koko, Morrow, and another pick/ player.
That price is absurd. I don't think Koko ever plays a game in Boston, but he is a guy who after a slow start is having an explosive rookie season in Providence. So he has real trade value, not just someone you throw away.
The Bruins made it to the finals last year with Seidenberg missing a round, and playing at about 75% of his usual self when he did come back, well until the OT games in the Chicago series that killed him, and he was a complete mess the last 3 games of that series, and supposedly couldn't even walk up a flight of stairs off the ice
Morrow is top 6 in the AHL for scoring among defensemen,.
That is a whole lot to give up for a rental, who doesn't really fill your need. People talk of him being young, but he will be 30 when the playoffs start as well, and given the free agent market in recent year, I have little doubt some fool will offer him 5/28, maybe 6/36
Bruins need is a LH defenseman, Giradi is a RH defenseman. Everything I have read this year from Ranger types indicate he has lost a step. Plus I believe he is a guy who's value is driven up because he has played in NYC in recent years.
The price thrown around is something like #1, Koko, Morrow, and another pick/ player.
That price is absurd. I don't think Koko ever plays a game in Boston, but he is a guy who after a slow start is having an explosive rookie season in Providence. So he has real trade value, not just someone you throw away.
The Bruins made it to the finals last year with Seidenberg missing a round, and playing at about 75% of his usual self when he did come back, well until the OT games in the Chicago series that killed him, and he was a complete mess the last 3 games of that series, and supposedly couldn't even walk up a flight of stairs off the ice
Morrow is top 6 in the AHL for scoring among defensemen,.
That is a whole lot to give up for a rental, who doesn't really fill your need. People talk of him being young, but he will be 30 when the playoffs start as well, and given the free agent market in recent year, I have little doubt some fool will offer him 5/28, maybe 6/36
Where have you seem that price thrown around?BigMike said:
It's been established up thread what a #2/3 is worth, and it's nothing close to your "offer."
TheShynessClinic said:
Larry Brooks was trying to make the argument that Giradi is the most valuable player to potentially be available at the trade deadline since Marion Hossa in 2008, He says the price is 2 A prospects and a #1.
Bleacher report (ok useless), is the one who claimed the morror/koko price, echoing the notion that Giradi is somehow the type of player who is never available at the deadline
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1904898-should-the-new-york-rangers-consider-sending-dan-girardi-to-boston-bruins
If I am going to give up a huge package, I am going after a player who the Bruins control for at least 2 more seasons. I don't see any of the FA to be who are worth giving up the type of package I listed, or anything even close to that
I'd be for going after Girardi if there's another serious injury to Boychuck, Hamilton, or Krug. Otherwise, I'd rather hold on and wait to see if another need is created by injury.
Mike had an extra pick/player in there I think: a #1, the top forward prospect, a top d prospect AND another pick/player. The article had a top forward prospect, a top D prospect and a pick.Dummy Hoy said:
In either case, as you pointed out, they are absurd prices and moreover, given the comps posted so far, likely above market.
Larry Brooks sucks.
