Should Mad Bum, Or Any Pitcher, Be in the Home Run Derby?

[Flynn4ever]

We're in a pretty heated first third of the season race and things are looking good on some fronts for the Sox, less good on other fronts. I'm going to completely go off topic and say that after watching video of Madison Bumgarner taking BP in St. Louis I really want to see him in the home run derby. If it were, say, David Price, how would you all feel? There was once a time when pitchers could hit and there have been a few throwbacks to that era over the years (Fernando Valenzuela hit around .400 his first few months in the majors.) Bruce Bochy says no way but is it really a risk? What other pitchers would you want to see in a home run derby? Who were the best hitting Red Sox pitchers before the DH? Warning, the music is abysmal. Sorry about that.

 

[Wingack]

Best hitting Red Sox pitcher?

Babe Ruth.

 

[JimBoSox9]

what the fuck is this thread and title and thread

 

[Gdiguy]

Syndergaard has serious power as well; I'd absolutely watch an all-pitcher HR derby (I'd pay an absurd amount of money to attend if Colon was also included)

*edit

Apparently this is a thing - Bumgarner wants to participate, but Bochy's not in favor

 

[Dollar]

Put Bumgarner and Bartolo Colon in there and I'll gladly watch.

 

[Flynn4ever]

what the fuck is this thread and title and thread

Sorry Jimbo. I admit it's a a fairly random point at this time of year, but the title is about Madison Bumgarner, so I thought it belonged in MLB discussion, The point is talking about good hitting pitchers. We (the Sox) haven't had one in a while, but Bumgarner seems to be quite good at it. The point is discussion, not argument.

Syndergaard has serious power as well; I'd absolutely watch an all-pitcher HR derby (I'd pay an absurd amount of money to attend if Colon was also included)

*edit

Apparently this is a thing - Bumgarner wants to participate, but Bochy's not in favor

Yes, this is a thing and that's why I started this thread, thanks for jumping in on it, do you have a link to Snydegaard BP footage? The whole reason I posted this was the Bumgarner footage. I found it amazing.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Could you add a "should" to the title? You know, so it doesn't look like this is a done deal?

 

[YTF]

Is it a risk? Unlike those blaming the Sox brass for Swihart's injury after the fact, I'll go on record before the fact saying that this is not only a bad idea, but it's an injury waiting to happen. In a world of pitch counts and arms being wrapped to keep warm between innings and iced after games, where routines and days off are kept as regimented as possible and where multi year, guaranteed contracts are worth hundreds of millions of dollars how is this considered anything but a bad idea? As for Price...42 PA in 9 seasons with 2 hits. I would much prefer that he focus on what he's being paid to do and try to become David Price again.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Yeah, but think of the strategy of having pitchers hit in the home run derby! Hopefully they can use the double-switch, too!

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Yeah, but think of the strategy of having pitchers hit in the home run derby! Hopefully they can use the double-switch, too!

Now pinch hitting for Madison Bumgarner in the HR Derby. Carl Crawford.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

Is it a risk? Unlike those blaming the Sox brass for Swihart's injury after the fact, I'll go on record before the fact saying that this is not only a bad idea, but it's an injury waiting to happen. In a world of pitch counts and arms being wrapped to keep warm between innings and iced after games, where routines and days off are kept as regimented as possible and where multi year, guaranteed contracts are worth hundreds of millions of dollars how is this considered anything but a bad idea?

I'd like to jump on board your bandwagon, just as soon as all the pitchers in MLB sell their golf clubs.

 

[Flynn4ever]

Could you add a "should" to the title? You know, so it doesn't look like this is a done deal?

Better?

 

[YTF]

I'd like to jump on board your bandwagon, just as soon as all the pitchers in MLB sell their golf clubs.

Fair enough, but that golf swing is something that they work on for a good portion of the year. The idea of a once a year tournament, a made for TV event where the sole intent is to swing from you ass and try to do something that is mostly foreign to a pitcher worries me. There is speculation that some position players suffer from participating in the Home Run Derby, that they aren't the same in the second half of the season. I don't know how you prove that, but I'm perfectly happy with pitchers not taking part.

 

[Gdiguy]

Is it a risk? Unlike those blaming the Sox brass for Swihart's injury after the fact, I'll go on record before the fact saying that this is not only a bad idea, but it's an injury waiting to happen. In a world of pitch counts and arms being wrapped to keep warm between innings and iced after games, where routines and days off are kept as regimented as possible and where multi year, guaranteed contracts are worth hundreds of millions of dollars how is this considered anything but a bad idea? As for Price...42 PA in 9 seasons with 2 hits. I would much prefer that he focus on what he's being paid to do and try to become David Price again.

Oh, I totally agree this is why it would never happen.. and even if it did, it would have to be a 'you get 10 pitches and that's it' format, not the 'take an unlimited number of swings over multiple rounds' format that would destroy a pitcher who hasn't done more than token batting practice for years.

Re: above, here's Syndergaard's two home run game from earlier this year:
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/177647004/mets-noah-syndergaard-hits-two-home-runs

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Oh, I totally agree this is why it would never happen.. and even if it did, it would have to be a 'you get 10 pitches and that's it' format, not the 'take an unlimited number of swings over multiple rounds' format that would destroy a pitcher who hasn't done more than token batting practice for years.

Re: above, here's Syndergaard's two home run game from earlier this year:
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/177647004/mets-noah-syndergaard-hits-two-home-runs

I would love to see Madbum, Thor and maybe 1-2 other good hitting pitchers that are interested do this. I think 10-20 swing limit would be perfect. It would be a fun showcase to watch, especially if they delivered and put on a show. I'd be shocked if this got the green light though.

 

[YTF]

Could never see it being okayed by ownership and though you propose a 10-20 swing limit, how many swings might they take in preparation to this event? Hell, some folks cringe when a pitcher is sent in to pinch run.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Could never see it being okayed by ownership and though you propose a 10-20 swing limit, how many swings might they take in preparation to this event? Hell, some folks cringe when a pitcher is sent in to pinch run.

Don't pitchers, at least NL pitchers, take batting practice regularly? I don't see where they'd be inclined to take any more swings in the cage in the name of "preparing" for a Derby than the hitters do.

That said, there's no way this will happen other than maybe in an off-season made-for-TV event in a similar vein to the old NFL QB skills challenge thing. Perhaps owners wouldn't object to their aces taking hacks in November if they've got a good four months to recover, injury or no injury, before spring training.

 

[edoug]

He has pop. Hitting one to the third deck in St. Louis.
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/san-francisco-giants-madison-bumgarner-wants-to-be-in-home-run-derby-060516

 

[YTF]

Don't pitchers, at least NL pitchers, take batting practice regularly? I don't see where they'd be inclined to take any more swings in the cage in the name of "preparing" for a Derby than the hitter

I've never seen an NL team take BP so I may be way off base, but I'm guessing the pitchers spend less time in the cage. Guys who would be typical Derby participants will put big swings on pitches in game and put on "shows" in BP. It's who they are and what they do. If you put a pitcher in this situation there has to be some sort of extra time put in I would think. At the very least there will be a HR Derby BP before the event and the big concern for me would be the pitcher going for the fences on every swing. That's not who they are, it's not what they do. These are guys who are often just trying to make contact, get the ball through the infield or get down a bunt. Perhaps not the best comp, but imagine a position player being pressed into service on the mound. It happens from time to time, but do we want Brock Holt coming in and trying to hit 100 mph on every throw?

 

[Rasputin]

It would be a lot of fun to see him in the derby.

I think the notion it being a health risk is absurd. AL pitchers take bathing practice before NL games, I'd imagine NL pitchers take it all the time.

The comparison to position players pitching is silly. Pitching an inherently injurious motion. Arms aren't supposed to do that very often. That's not true of batting. When's the last time you've heard of someone hiring themself just swinging? Meanwhile there are at least two guys who come to mind whose arms snapped just pitching, not mention all the shoulder and elbow injuries.

I'm pretty sure the pitches thrown in the all star game are a worse injury risk than the home run derby.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

It would be a lot of fun to see him in the derby.

I think the notion it being a health risk is absurd. AL pitchers take bathing practice before NL games, I'd imagine NL pitchers take it all the time.

The comparison to position players pitching is silly. Pitching an inherently injurious motion. Arms aren't supposed to do that very often. That's not true of batting. When's the last time you've heard of someone hiring themself just swinging? Meanwhile there are at least two guys who come to mind whose arms snapped just pitching, not mention all the shoulder and elbow injuries.

I'm pretty sure the pitches thrown in the all star game are a worse injury risk than the home run derby.

I seem to recall Bartolo Colon more or less sinking his time with the Red Sox throwing his back out while hitting in an interleague game. I think Josh Beckett also found himself on the DL with a back injury sustained by swinging in BP at one point in his Red Sox career.

And not limiting this to just pitchers, I remember more than one position player injured while swinging. I remember Trot Nixon once pulled an oblique and had to leave an at bat unfinished (for some reason, I want to say it was in Tampa). Didn't David Ortiz's wrist injury in 2008 stem from a check-swing?

Swinging a bat isn't some injury-free venture. I'd guess that injuries from a single swing of the bat are just as common as injuries from a single throwing motion...bearing in mind that most pitching arm injuries are the result of repeated motion and wear and tear. UCLs don't just pop due to one throw even if they may actually "pop" on one particular throw.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Exactly. A pitcher swinging in BP is not the same as a pitcher on National Television trying to hit the ball as hard as he can to win some meaningless title.

 

[YTF]

It would be a lot of fun to see him in the derby.

I think the notion it being a health risk is absurd. AL pitchers take bathing practice before NL games, I'd imagine NL pitchers take it all the time.

The comparison to position players pitching is silly. Pitching an inherently injurious motion. Arms aren't supposed to do that very often. That's not true of batting. When's the last time you've heard of someone hiring themself just swinging? Meanwhile there are at least two guys who come to mind whose arms snapped just pitching, not mention all the shoulder and elbow injuries.

I'm pretty sure the pitches thrown in the all star game are a worse injury risk than the home run derby.

As mentioned in my post, the Holt comp may not be the best. Yes the act of throwing a baseball overhand is not a natural motion, but my point was a position player pressed into that role should not try to throw each pitch with the goal of trying to light up the radar gun, just as I think it would be unwise to look for a pitcher to put a home run swing on each pitch that he sees. I'm guessing that the in season BP that they take is not akin to swinging at every pitch with the sole objective of driving the ball out of the park. As a fan, I would be concerned with any Boston pitcher taking part in one of these exhibitions. Let's suppose that David Price were able to handle a bat like Bumgarner. Given the state of this pitching staff as a whole, would you feel comfortable with Price being in the Derby? I wouldn't even feel comfortable with it being considered.

 

[Rasputin]

Swinging a bat isn't some injury-free venture. I'd guess that injuries from a single swing of the bat are just as common as injuries from a single throwing motion...bearing in mind that most pitching arm injuries are the result of repeated motion and wear and tear. UCLs don't just pop due to one throw even if they may actually "pop" on one particular throw.

I think comparing one swing to one throw is a canard. Pitching does more damage than swinging. We often see pitchers with injuries that result not from a collision with anyone or anything, but just from doing their job.

Exactly. A pitcher swinging in BP is not the same as a pitcher on National Television trying to hit the ball as hard as he can to win some meaningless title.

It pretty much is. They're swinging a little harder. Big deal.

Given the state of this pitching staff as a whole, would you feel comfortable with Price being in the Derby? I wouldn't even feel comfortable with it being considered.

I'd be more comfortable with Price participating in the home run derby than I would having them pitch in the all-star game.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

It pretty much is. They're swinging a little harder. Big deal.

No. No it isn't.

 

[JimBoSox9]

Regardless how how correct Lose is or how inocorrect Ras is, you're arguing about the wrong side of the risk event. Risk is probability x impact; you can go round and round and round on probability all frickin day and not come to a good answer as to how the HR derby would affect an individual pitcher. Doesn't happen much, but it does happen. That's called a crap shoot.

It's the impact side that's determative. If I'm Sabean or Bochy, I'm not asking myself how likely is he to get hurt, I'm asking myself if there's any upside, any benefit at all we're getting out of this, that's worth even a 0.5% chance of being known as the guy who put MadBum on the shelf for three months because he let him hit in a dumb exhibition. That's the kind of shit that follows you in the papers every day even if things are going well, and gets you run out of town when they're not. The negative impact is clear and present to the decision-makers. Unless someone can articulate an equal positive impact besides a couple days of good press, you can fuck right off with this idea, and it doesn't really matter who's closer to right about the injury risks. Re-hashing Injury Prevention For Dummies By Assholes for the 1,000th time won't bring you to a conclusion.

 

[The Price Is Wrong]

Without opining on the injury risk side of it, I would love there to be an undercard to the HR Derby, maybe starting earlier in the evening, with some good-hitting pitchers (or maybe, rotating every few years, catchers or shortstops). Let a few of these guys who think their pop is underrated in a normal game situation go out and swing for the fences against their positional mates. The entertainment factor would be much higher with pitchers, for sure, but I'd love to see what a few of them can do, in a more-limited set of swings anyway. Get Micah Owings back from the Independent Leagues and see if he can still bring the thunder.

Baseball's supposed to be fun, and this would be fun.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

/me likes that idea a whole lot

 

[Rasputin]

No. No it isn't.

The home run derby pretty much is batting practice. Sure, they're not going to be working on their bunting and they aren't going to try to hit to all fields but they're just standing there trying hit the ball.

Let me put it this way. Any executive who doesn't want their pitcher in the derby should be petitioning the commish to get the DH in the NL because doing otherwise is hypocrisy.

 

[JimBoSox9]

The home run derby pretty much is batting practice. Sure, they're not going to be working on their bunting and they aren't going to try to hit to all fields but they're just standing there trying hit the ball.

This is pretty goddamn idiotic.

 

[Rasputin]

This is pretty goddamn idiotic.

Oh, please. Home run derbies don't turn into marathons just because someone starts keeping score. There's no running. There's no sliding into bases. There's no crashing into walls. They stand there and try to hit the ball really far. They exert themselves a bit more than in batting practice and there's twisting and all that, but in the entire realm of officially sanctioned athletic events, you'd be hard pressed to find something less likely to injure someone.

 

[soxhop411]

It looks like it is gaining momentum
“‪@Buster_ESPN‬: The Giants had conversations today about Bumgarner being in Derby. Idea floated is a P’s Derby. SF open to ideas; he wants to be in Derby.”