Should Farrell have pitched Tazawa last night?

AlNipper49

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Tie game going into the 10th. Koji has been used to bridge through a scoreless 9th. Tazawa had been the natural option however:
- Tazawa leads the team in appearances with 37
- This is good for 7th in the league
- Has not pitched since Sunday
- Prior to Sunday had a high workload (June 21-28 5 innings)
- pitched an acceptable bullpen earlier in the day, was deemed healthy
- advised that the bullpen session should be his only pitching of the day (two warm-ups)

Given Farrell was advised not to pitch him I kind of don't understand why there is chatter about not pitching him last night. It feels to me like more or a frustration thing - why is our most valuable bullpen arm laying fallow for a week during probably our last period of make-or-break? A DL stint, with retrospect, would have made more sense.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Shouldn't the question be why didn't he pitch his bullpen yesterday?

As mentioned in game thread by others, the whole thing seems strange.
 

joe dokes

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Obviously Tazawa is (or was) dealing with something. Farrell says he can go today. So in hindsight a DL stint was probably not the best course. Last night was just a confluence of pitching shitstorms. Masterson was terrible. Tazawa and Ogando weren't available. Extra innings. Once Tazawa's unavailability was obvious, I might have considered using Koji for another inning< but choosing not to was far from indefensible.
And yet for all that, they were likely one Betts brain fart from winning. (I say "likely" only because you never know if things are the same with him still on 2nd).
 
So to go to Zarilla's question....frustration at losing one they "had no right to win" but nearly did anyway.
 

AB in DC

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Can't answer this question without knowing what's going on with Taz.  Four days off wasn't enough, but five days is?
 

PaulinMyrBch

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I think with Tazawa they didn't know he was good today until he pitched the bullpen yesterday. He was obviously dealing with something we aren't aware of and the bullpen was the session to determine if he was getting a longer break (DL) or clean to go. It's unfortunate, because you aren't going to broadcast he's unavailable, you're not going to DL him for something that might pass in 3-4 days, and you can't pitch him on the day he throws his pen to determine if he's good. So I agree its sort of a perfect storm. 
 
My question is with Tazawa and Ogundo both unavailable it might have made more sense to call up someone that could give you long relief if needed. I know Wright pitched on 7/1, but someone to give you 3-5 was needed last night. 
 

PaulinMyrBch

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From Tomase's column
 
 
So where was Taz?
"He needed the series off in Toronto, given how much the workload was in Tampa Bay," Farrell explained. "He threw a bullpen earlier today. After the bullpen, he was deemed OK. And yet, advised not to use tonight, to not get him warmed up or hot twice in one day. He will be available for tomorrow. That was the plan laid out for him, to get on the mound today, but not be available tonight. Otherwise, he would have been available in the eighth or the 10th in either of those situations."
Tazawa said through a translator that sitting out the game was a coach's decision. He stressed he wasn't dealing with an injury, but fatigue. He said pregame bullpen sessions are not uncommon, nor do they preclude him from taking the mound that night. He also admitted, "It was a little bit unusual."
"I've done that before, when I have a long layoff or sometimes when I have to work on something," he said. "I just went with what my coaches told me. It's not too unusual.
"I could have [pitched]," Tazawa added. "As I told you, I threw a bullpen, so it was all up to the coaches."
Tazawa appreciated the break.
"I think the rest did me wonders," Tazawa said. "I feel great right now."
Disclaimer: If that is too much of a quote to post, cut that and just check the link.
 

Plympton91

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Reggie's Racquet said:
The bottom line is why...with all the financial and intellectual resources this team has...do we have this shit storm of a starting pitching staff?
And only 2-1/2 reliable relievers, (though Ogando may be making that 3-1/2, it's still unacceptable).
 

PaulinMyrBch

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Reggie's Racquet said:
The bottom line is why...with all the financial and intellectual resources this team has...do we have this shit storm of a starting pitching staff?
Probably about 10 other threads on the board covering that topic.
 

jtn46

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Koji going 2 was my thought. If Tazawa was available he would have pitched before the 10th.

I don't know, Ramirez was set up to fail there, it's his debut and he has no net. I guess if the Sox win in 9 it doesn't matter, but I would have preferred he pitch earlier in the game with a chance to be bailed out.
 

Scott Cooper

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Obviously if Tazawa was available he should have pitched in either the eighth or 10th. It seems that what Tazawa said is he was available after Farrell said he wasn't. So who knows what to believe.

It's starts with Masterson and his inability to get out of the 4th. After Layne settles things down, you'd think we'd have a couple relievers that aren't gas cans.

So to answer the question, I don't think Farell can go against the medical staff (or whomever) and pitch a guy he's told is unavailable.
 

Kilgore A. Trout

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Then don't have Taz throw a side session yesterday.  Was Farrell the only person in the world who didn't think he'd be needed last night before the game?  Check Taz Thursday if you need to.  With Masterson pitching you should know you'd need every arm in the pen available, especially one of your best ones.    
Even without Taz, how about not sending in a kid who's never thrown a MLB pitch in his life up against the top of the batting order of the best team in the American League?  Ross sucks, but he's still an infinitely better option than Ramirez.  
Farrell was so bad last night even the reasons he gives for what he did make him look just as stupid.
 

irinmike

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Agree with the assessment of Farrell.  It sure is about time for these team executives and coaches to take responsibility for the situation in the bull pen.  However all the Red Sox will give the fan base is more corporate politically correct jargon.  
 

Coachster

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Kilgore A. Trout said:
Then don't have Taz throw a side session yesterday.  Was Farrell the only person in the world who didn't think he'd be needed last night before the game?  Check Taz Thursday if you need to.  With Masterson pitching you should know you'd need every arm in the pen available, especially one of your best ones.    
Even without Taz, how about not sending in a kid who's never thrown a MLB pitch in his life up against the top of the batting order of the best team in the American League?  Ross sucks, but he's still an infinitely better option than Ramirez.  
Farrell was so bad last night even the reasons he gives for what he did make him look just as stupid.
I agree with all of this, especially the common knowledge that Masterson would get you a maximum of 5 or 6 innings...if he were actually a major league pitcher. So, no Taz, no Ogando, no Ross. Who is supposed to pitch, except Breslow and Barnes?
 
The bigger issue here is not having a major-league bullpen for Farrell to work with. He has to know that Barnes, Breslow and any of the AAAA guys they bring up are batting practice pitchers. There has to be some guys DFA'd by other teams who would be better.
 
I agree Farrell is awful, but he really has both hands tied at this point.
 

grimshaw

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My guess is they were just trying to eke by this series to get to the off day, two game, off day week coming up.
It clearly didn't work.
They also could have just DL'd Tazawa with shoulder fatigue since they have 3 off days even before the break to minimize the loss.
 

judyb

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I don't get why they don't keep a long reliever around when this rotation seems to need one so badly. I thought when they sent Wright down it was to use Masterson in that role, then they sent Kelly down and gave his rotation spot to Masterson, and they keep calling up short relievers instead of pitchers who are used to going more than an inning or two. And now that they're actually scoring some runs, they're overworking the few good relievers they have because they're actually still in some of the games when their starters can't get through more than a few innings.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Kilgore A. Trout said:
Then don't have Taz throw a side session yesterday.  Was Farrell the only person in the world who didn't think he'd be needed last night before the game?  Check Taz Thursday if you need to.  With Masterson pitching you should know you'd need every arm in the pen available, especially one of your best ones.    
Even without Taz, how about not sending in a kid who's never thrown a MLB pitch in his life up against the top of the batting order of the best team in the American League?  Ross sucks, but he's still an infinitely better option than Ramirez.  
Farrell was so bad last night even the reasons he gives for what he did make him look just as stupid.
We had two relievers unavailable and another (Ross) likely only pitching under an emergency having thrown 49 pitches two days ago. Ramirez was called up due to 3 members of the pen essentially not able to pitch. It's difficult to criticize a manager for handling a pen that is so shorthanded for one day. There are times you can target the best time for a players debut.....last night wasn't one of them. I have to give the benefit of the doubt for Taz throwing a side session that isn't being reported......it doesn't pass the smell test that he didn't have something going on that could have landed him on the DL unless yesterdays work passed a test.
 

judyb

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I thought Barnes was supposed to be the long reliever. So I also thought the question was why Barnes over Wright.
He's had one appearance of 2+ innings since his last PawSox start May 1, I don't know if that's because he doesn't pitch well enough or he isn't stretched out enough anymore, but they've been mostly using him like a short reliever. This may be a bit of a fluke, maybe Wright doesn't make his PawSox start the other day once Porcello got lit up if it hadn't happened to be too soon to call him back up without someone going on the DL, but then Swihart did end up going on the DL, so they could have called him up yesterday but they didn't know that yet when they let him make that start.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Why not just have Taz warm up during the game to see if you can then bring him in?  Why throw the bullpen hours before the game?  Warm him up during the game, if he's OK, bring him in.
 

joe dokes

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Hee Sox Choi said:
Why not just have Taz warm up during the game to see if you can then bring him in?  Why throw the bullpen hours before the game?  Warm him up during the game, if he's OK, bring him in.
 
Because they need to know if he has to go on the DL?  And they'd like to know that before the game. I dont think it would be better to say, "I think we can use him," get to the 7th or 8th and then find out you can't.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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joe dokes said:
 
Because they need to know if he has to go on the DL?  And they'd like to know that before the game. I dont think it would be better to say, "I think we can use him," get to the 7th or 8th and then find out you can't.
So you would have the EXACT SAME THING where he can't pitch.  
 
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So I guess we finally know who the ace is?


Am I the 27th person to make that joke? I didn't read the game thread..
 

threecy

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Kilgore A. Trout said:
I thought Barnes was supposed to be the long reliever. So I also thought the question was why Barnes over Wright.
I suspect Barnes is ready for a demotion.  After a 2.38 ERA May, he had a 11.81 ERA in June and is off to a 7.71 start in July.  He's been getting hit pretty hard all year, to the tune of a .960 opponents OPS (ranging from .882 in May to 1.233 in June).
 

tomdeplonty

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Hee Sox Choi said:
So you would have the EXACT SAME THING where he can't pitch.  
 
Not the exact same thing, right? Don't they have time to bring somebody else up in his place if they decide to DL him after the bullpen?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Hee Sox Choi said:
So you would have the EXACT SAME THING where he can't pitch.  
No manager is going to put a (maybe) injured reliever in a position like that for one. Secondly, a manager can't go into a game not knowing if a key reliever is available or unavailable. Third, if it was determined prior to the game he wasn't good to go the following day you can make a roster move.

You aren't managing this one game as if it's a Game 7 which seems to be where yours and others thought process is. It's one of 162.