Shaun Wade to the Patriots

bsj

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I LOVE this addition. Love it more if it comes WITH Gilly. But he is going to be a very very good corner IMO
 
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Soxy

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Makes me a little concerned that Gilmore won't be ready for the start of the season, but this could have zero to do with that as they need depth at outside corner either way. This potentially solves both a short and long term need.
 

DJnVa

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I LOVE this addition. Love it more if it comes WITH Gilly. But he is going to be a very very good corner IMO
I need more info on this opinion. 5th rounder, traded during first camp. Why do you feel this way? Why was he available in the 5th and available in a trade?
 

BigJimEd

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Makes me a little concerned that Gilmore won't be ready for the start of the season, but this could have zero to do with that as they need depth at outside corner either way. This potentially solves both a short and long term need.
I'm not very familiar with Wade but, from what I read, his struggles on the outside his final year at OSU is why he fell in the draft. Some believe he's more suited to slot/nickel or even safety.
 

bsj

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I need more info on this opinion. 5th rounder, traded during first camp. Why do you feel this way? Why was he available in the 5th and available in a trade?
Honestly it’s just informed by What I saw in college. Love the way he plays and he slipped in the draft. I could be off the mark
But I am a fan here.
 

sodenj5

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I'm not very familiar with Wade but, from what I read, his struggles on the outside his final year at OSU is why he fell in the draft. Some believe he's more suited to slot/nickel or even safety.
Seemed like the arrow pointed down for him last season. His best work was as a freshman in the nickel role. He got exposed on the outside by speed.

Ravens seem to play a lot of press man coverage, so Wade probably wasn’t a strong scheme fit as an outside CB for them.

Maybe they use him more as a big nickel guy.
 

Soxy

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I'm not very familiar with Wade but, from what I read, his struggles on the outside his final year at OSU is why he fell in the draft. Some believe he's more suited to slot/nickel or even safety.
I don't really follow college ball, saw his size and figured he'd be outside, which would make sense based on their needs. Slot corner wouldn't seem to be as much of a need, though Jon Jones did get injured during practice today.

One of the stories I just read mentioned that Wade battled turf toe during the season he was outside, not sure how much that affected him. Would be a little disappointing if he can't play there at all. Maybe it's just as simple as they liked the kid in the draft and he became available, but if he can't play outside, then I'm not sure whose spot he would be taking, unless they're unhappy with Myles Bryant, maybe?
 

EL Jeffe

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One note of caution is that Baltimore is a pretty smart organization and good, cheap, cost controlled corners are very valuable. If Wade were truly having a a strong camp, he wouldn't be available. It simply wouldn't make any sense for Baltimore to trade him. I understand his preseason stats are good to date, but we have no idea how he's looked in practice or off the field. There's clearly a reason Baltimore is moving on from him so quickly.

It's still a reasonable gamble on NE's part, but I'd temper enthusiasm here.
 

GB5

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if he was taken on in the 5th and the Ravens are moving him, wouldnt he be worth less than a 5th? From my reading, bad year at OSU. Slot guy primarily. Ravens are very deep at corner, so he may not have made the team and the ravens knew he wasnt getting through waivers. Hasnt been good in practice in man to man but played well in preseason games. If he was allowed to come out after his first year, would have been a top 2 rounder, so arrow is pointed downward for him. If they are keeping him it likely means one of the projected DB's who we thought was safe, isnt making it. JoeJuan?
 

Pesky Pole

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Let's hope it was similar to what we just did with Sony. Good player, wasn't going to make the team probably so let's get something before we release him.
 

Cellar-Door

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if he was taken on in the 5th and the Ravens are moving him, wouldnt he be worth less than a 5th? From my reading, bad year at OSU. Slot guy primarily. Ravens are very deep at corner, so he may not have made the team and the ravens knew he wasnt getting through waivers. Hasnt been good in practice in man to man but played well in preseason games. If he was allowed to come out after his first year, would have been a top 2 rounder, so arrow is pointed downward for him. If they are keeping him it likely means one of the projected DB's who we thought was safe, isnt making it. JoeJuan?
It's a 5th 2 years out, which is worth less than a current 5th, and the Ravens paid his his signing bonus (300k). So the Patriots are getting him on a 4 year 3.48 fully non-guaranteed deal for the equivalent of maybe a 6th? If they liked him in the draft that's a steal.

Ravens are doing it because they think they got a steal in Ar'darius Washington as a UDFA and they only have room for 1 rookie DB,
 

EL Jeffe

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Ravens are doing it because they think they got a steal in Ar'darius Washington as a UDFA and they only have room for 1 rookie DB,
I'm not buying this part. If Wade were crushing it, Baltimore would find room for a 2nd rookie CB. No team has ever said "Oh no, we have too many young, cost-controlled rookie corners who are playing well. We have to dump one!"
 

kelpapa

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I'm not buying this part. If Wade were crushing it, Baltimore would find room for a 2nd rookie CB. No team has ever said "Oh no, we have too many young, cost-controlled rookie corners who are playing well. We have to dump one!"
Their third round draft pick this year was also a corner, and they have another UDFA CB on the roster. It's possible one or both of the UDFAs are outperforming Wade.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm not buying this part. If Wade were crushing it, Baltimore would find room for a 2nd rookie CB. No team has ever said "Oh no, we have too many young, cost-controlled rookie corners who are playing well. We have to dump one!"
You can definitely have too many DBs, the Ravens are a contender, they only have so many spots for developmental players, sure if Wade came out and was a monster out of the gate they'd move someone else, but if he comes out and is as expected or better for a 5th round rookie, and you also have 4 good vets, a recent 4th rounder you like and an UDFA who is better than expected, you start looking for a way to get something for one of the rookies rather than cutting him. Especially since you have 2 rookie safeties you'd like to keep and good vets in front of them. The Ravens have a ton of depth in vet and young DBs, Wade was fighting at the bottom of the roster as you'd expect of a 5th rounder, they saw a chance to get future draft capital for him and keep Washington who has been good, versus cutting one of them.
 

SMU_Sox

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"Failed at outside corner. His best asset is he brings it in run defense and profiles well as a core 4 STer. Also a fantastic tackler. The problem is he is best suited for a box role or maybe split zone but that will require him to develop new skills so it's a projection. He was better covering slots but his hip stiffness didn't work with that role well."

That was my summary for him. I had him as a silver tier Patriots fit (3.5/5 - and that is a good fit) and a guy who could be a starter but was more a team specific scheme type and probably quality depth or a role player. He needed to be on a team that would allow him to play to his strengths which is physicality. If you run a ton of off-man stuff Wade isn't for you. I think Wade is an interesting pickup because he could be a SS. He could be a nickel corner too - and his run defense is truly excellent. I also believe he will be an excellent STer. I had him at 164 on my board and he went 160th. He's in that tier of quality depth/good STer/maybe-just-maybe a starter somewhere.

I thought he struggled with sharp breaks as well as route anticipation and route recognition in college especially last year. I think if he learns to play even more physical while he is in phase and gets better at knowing when a break is coming (route anticipation and route recognition) he will be able to cover up his stiff hips.
 

Jungleland

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I'm not buying this part. If Wade were crushing it, Baltimore would find room for a 2nd rookie CB. No team has ever said "Oh no, we have too many young, cost-controlled rookie corners who are playing well. We have to dump one!"
They do say it about rookie contract running backs averaging 5.7 yards per carry, though...
 

SMU_Sox

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Where do you all think he plays and what do you think his ideal role is? Aside from STs that is. Do you see him as a true jack of all trades DB? A SS? A nickel/slot guy? An outside CB project and matchup guy against bigger receivers? Would you try him on tight ends? Curious what the board thinks here.
 

EL Jeffe

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LOL at thinking NE is the only team to incorporate a Foxboro Flu to roster management. If you have a couple of extra rookies crushing it at a position, you're better off redshirting than cutting bait.

As an aside, coming up with an apropos name for the Baltimore Foxboro Flu is bringing me a lot of joy right now.
 

RedOctober3829

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Where do you all think he plays and what do you think his ideal role is? Aside from STs that is. Do you see him as a true jack of all trades DB? A SS? A nickel/slot guy? An outside CB project and matchup guy against bigger receivers? Would you try him on tight ends? Curious what the board thinks here.
I’d play him all over. Mills seemingly will play inside if Jones is hurt so Wade can take Mills’ hybrid role.
 

Harry Hooper

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Bedard's take:

Do I think Wade will get looks at corner? Yes. Behind Gilmore, Jackson and Jones, the Patriots have nothing they can hang their hat on. The parade of Jalen Mills, Michael Jackson and Joejuan Williams has not provided a security blanket.

In reality, Wade is a good defensive back who is better than players they currently have and who could fill a variety of roles — including possibly free safety down the road if and when Devin McCourty calls it quits. The Patriots will get him in here, and then figure out where he fits.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Everything I've read on Wade screams Safety trying to play corner. Great size/strength combo with some ballskills. If he plays and shows anything Sunday, I think it spells the end for Joejuan.
 

EL Jeffe

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The optimistic take is Wade played through turf toe last year, and that robbed him of some of his short area explosion. I think he was always over hyped but his physical profile and pedigree are worth a flyer. He can certainly have a Jalen Mills career if he stays healthy and cleans up some of his footwork and other issues.
 

IdiotKicker

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"Failed at outside corner. His best asset is he brings it in run defense and profiles well as a core 4 STer. Also a fantastic tackler. The problem is he is best suited for a box role or maybe split zone but that will require him to develop new skills so it's a projection. He was better covering slots but his hip stiffness didn't work with that role well."

That was my summary for him. I had him as a silver tier Patriots fit (3.5/5 - and that is a good fit) and a guy who could be a starter but was more a team specific scheme type and probably quality depth or a role player. He needed to be on a team that would allow him to play to his strengths which is physicality. If you run a ton of off-man stuff Wade isn't for you. I think Wade is an interesting pickup because he could be a SS. He could be a nickel corner too - and his run defense is truly excellent. I also believe he will be an excellent STer. I had him at 164 on my board and he went 160th. He's in that tier of quality depth/good STer/maybe-just-maybe a starter somewhere.

I thought he struggled with sharp breaks as well as route anticipation and route recognition in college especially last year. I think if he learns to play even more physical while he is in phase and gets better at knowing when a break is coming (route anticipation and route recognition) he will be able to cover up his stiff hips.
I was going to say that this feels like Rodney Harrison 2.0, right down to draft position.
 

Super Nomario

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Everything I've read on Wade screams Safety trying to play corner. Great size/strength combo with some ballskills. If he plays and shows anything Sunday, I think it spells the end for Joejuan.
Right now Joejuan's role is he's a backup outside corner. Adding a safety / slot type wouldn't seem to threaten that position. Maybe they think Wade can play outside?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Russell Street Forum (Ravens website) says that Wade's lack of change of direction skills was exposed in camp; Ravens wanted to get something for him rather than expose him to waivers: https://russellstreetreport.com/2021/08/27/lombardis-way/ravens-trade-wade/

Also, as mentioned before, BAL has 7 locks for defensive backfield (Humphrey, Peters, Averett, Smith, Elliott, Clark, and Stephens (3rd round draft pick). For remaining spots, they have a bunch of candidates including UDFA (Washington) - see tweet below. As article states, Wade probably wouldn't make it through waivers so they figured they'd get something for him.

View: https://twitter.com/KylePBarber/status/1430955505468551171?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1430955505468551171%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.baltimorebeatdown.com%2F2021%2F8%2F26%2F22643103%2Fravens-trade-rookie-cb-shaun-wade-to-the-patriots-nfl-trade-news-baltimore-new-england
 

Zincman

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Stiff-hipped athlete is not an outside corner
Outstanding tackler=SS or slot corner
Physical players with tackling skills =ST
I learned in scouting a long time ago....tell me what he CAN do, not what he CAN'T do.
BB has always found a way to utilize guys with specific skills and not asking them to do what they CAN'T
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Right now Joejuan's role is he's a backup outside corner. Adding a safety / slot type wouldn't seem to threaten that position. Maybe they think Wade can play outside?
Maybe? Possible that Bill just sees all of them as defensive backs and you matchup with whoever you matchup well against. On paper Williams and Wade have a very similar skillset.
 

Super Nomario

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Maybe? Possible that Bill just sees all of them as defensive backs and you matchup with whoever you matchup well against. On paper Williams and Wade have a very similar skillset.
On paper they do, but on the field Joejuan has struggled every time he's been used inside and Wade has struggled every time he's been used outside.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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On paper they do, but on the field Joejuan has struggled every time he's been used inside and Wade has struggled every time he's been used outside.
I had thought the dig was that Joejuan struggled everywhere haha! Although I was a little impressed with how he played against Devonta Smith last week. Looking at the depth chart it's Gilly (hopefully), JC, Jon Jones, Mills then what I figured to be Williams or Wade. Safety it's DMC, Dugger, Phillips and Bethel. That's 9 DBs right there. I suppose they could keep them both? Hopefully it's not a sign that Gilmore is on his way out, though that is a possibility...
 

j44thor

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It's a 5th 2 years out, which is worth less than a current 5th, and the Ravens paid his his signing bonus (300k). So the Patriots are getting him on a 4 year 3.48 fully non-guaranteed deal for the equivalent of maybe a 6th? If they liked him in the draft that's a steal.

Ravens are doing it because they think they got a steal in Ar'darius Washington as a UDFA and they only have room for 1 rookie DB,
This is simply a false narrative, the only time a 5th is worth more this year vs next is when a team is on the clock and another team have identified the player they want and deem him worthy of a bit more. Or perhaps a GM trying to save his job which clearly doesn't apply here. It is dumb to think a 5th next year is worth more than the year after unless your scouts posses a time machine. Bad GMs fall into this narrative and there is a reason Bill hasn't been able to pull this off nearly as much as they used to.
 

Cellar-Door

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This is simply a false narrative, the only time a 5th is worth more this year vs next is when a team is on the clock and another team have identified the player they want and deem him worthy of a bit more. Or perhaps a GM trying to save his job which clearly doesn't apply here. It is dumb to think a 5th next year is worth more than the year after unless your scouts posses a time machine. Bad GMs fall into this narrative and there is a reason Bill hasn't been able to pull this off nearly as much as they used to.
It's pretty much standard across the NFL that each year further out a pick is the less it's worth in trades (except 1sts which seem to decrease once then plateau) and when you look at Bill he isn't really an exception. He sees picks soon as more valuable than later. Though even if he didn't it wouldn't matter much because league wide consensus sees it that way which means if he's like to re-trade the pick which he often does, it will have more value. It's also why when the league said the pick couldn't be this year he asked for and got more. We've also seen it in deals where a guy is dealt for a pick that isn't clearly better than the comp pick he would likely return because Bill (and other GMs) want the optionality of either adding a cheap player or trading the pick, rather than waiting on the ability to use one of the two benefits of the asset.

A 5th this year is worth more than a 5th next year if only because you can trade it for more than a 5th next year.
 

j44thor

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It's pretty much standard across the NFL that each year further out a pick is the less it's worth in trades (except 1sts which seem to decrease once then plateau) and when you look at Bill he isn't really an exception. He sees picks soon as more valuable than later. Though even if he didn't it wouldn't matter much because league wide consensus sees it that way which means if he's like to re-trade the pick which he often does, it will have more value. It's also why when the league said the pick couldn't be this year he asked for and got more. We've also seen it in deals where a guy is dealt for a pick that isn't clearly better than the comp pick he would likely return because Bill (and other GMs) want the optionality of either adding a cheap player or trading the pick, rather than waiting on the ability to use one of the two benefits of the asset.

A 5th this year is worth more than a 5th next year if only because you can trade it for more than a 5th next year.
That only applies during the draft, not during the regular season.
 

Cellar-Door

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That only applies during the draft, not during the regular season.
It pretty clearly does apply during the regular season, as well as the offseason well before the draft, we only need to look at trades to see that, including the Michel trade, which was re-worked to add value when the pick was pushed back a year.

Edit- what is the evidence that teams don't prioritize earlier picks than later picks? I can't think of any, where the pre-comp pick trades, and other seem to make it clear that earlier picks have more value than later picks of the same round.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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For the average GM, a pick now is worth a pick later because that player might be able to help him keep his job.

For Belichek and DeCosta, I don't think they care as much. Ravens are happy to recoup something for someone they were likely going to have to cut. Pats are happy getting a player they probably wouldn't have gotten if he had gone on waivers.