Screw it ! There's one way to retain our OS dominance...Win 10 is free to anyone running 7 or 8.1, b
- Thread starter Couperin47
- Start date
Microsoft's latest activities surrounding updates to Win 10 are so weird, unexplained and inscrutable that even trying to understand what they are doing will make your head hurt. Ed Bott at ZDNet tries to explain but even I can't quite follow what the hell they did with offering an update, a recommended tool and then withdrawing it all with no explanation that makes any sense. Try and follow it all here:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-yanks-latest-windows-10-release-from-its-download-server/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-yanks-latest-windows-10-release-from-its-download-server/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61
Microsoft's latest attempt to nag you into Win 10 is hilarious and they are going to get even more annoying:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-latest-windows-10-nag-screen-upgrade-now-or-upgrade-tonight/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-latest-windows-10-nag-screen-upgrade-now-or-upgrade-tonight/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61
Couperin, I am avoiding downloading any of the Windows updates having to do with Windows 10, like, for example, the current 3035583 and 3112343. Eventually I will have to get Win 10, no? Then, will I be screwed b/c I don't have all these updates on the computer ahead of time?
No, you are never 'forced' to Win 10, despite Microsoft's attempts to imply same. In theory, once the 'free 1 year upgrade' opportunity ends, MS should stop trying to endlessly nag/trick you into upgrading, since you will then have to pay to upgrade. The more cynical foresee that the free upgrade offer will be extended and is just yet another part of the program to induce an upgrade. The same cynics expect that once most have upgraded (with no path back) Win 10 will morph, in a year or 2, into a 'cloud service' with an annual subscription fee, guaranteeing MS annual income without the pesky need to advertise or market at all.
Understand that besides the updates that explicitly reveal that they are to 'prepare for Win 10' there have been several that do not reveal their exact purpose and also install large chunks of Win 10 (most commonly c. 6 Meg of the 'upgrade'). To prevent this and remove the files if already installed, get and run the free GWX Control Panel:
http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
If already partially installed, this app will enable you to remove the hidden files and if monitor mode is enabled, block hidden or inadvertent attempts to install.
Re: being forced to get Win10. MS will continue to support Win7 until 1/14/20, if this site is correct. So I have a decision to make: being guided by you and others who dislike Win10 it or get it and follow the advice of the PCWorld video on the above referenced page and remove the odious bits. I hate making decisions about things I don't understand, so I guess I will let the free deadline pass.
But if I change my mind and decide to go to Win10, my question remains: Will I have difficulty b/c I have not downloaded all the "updates" to Win7 that have to do with downloading it?
But if I change my mind and decide to go to Win10, my question remains: Will I have difficulty b/c I have not downloaded all the "updates" to Win7 that have to do with downloading it?
As already said, Win 10 REPLACES Win 7, the 'condition' of your Win 7 install is irrelevant. MS will happily free install over any legit copy of 7.
Keep in mind many of us object to Win 10 not because of privacy issues (some are real, some are not, whether the 'enhanced telemetry' reported back to MS is objectionable largely depends on how paranoid you are.) Our objection is control. Once you move to 10 you have little or no control of how and what MS decides to do in the future: change the default font or color of something ? annoying but you'll live. Change the complete design philosophy to a really different 'ribbon' with a serious change in style and organization ? You're going to be infuriated. It's what Chrome has always been, what Mozilla/Firefox has just become. That's why my primary browser is Palemoon.
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And I use and have always used Opera. But what does your choice of browser have to do with your OS? What reason is there to believe that Win10 will be more controlling than Win7? If I am derailing the thread, I apologize. If this has all been covered, pls refer me to some reading (something for computer semi-illiterates, if possible) that will help me to understand what's at stake here. I know that there's the suspicion this is going all-cloud, but what's the justification for that suspicion? Only 6+ months to make up my mind!!!!
No, this shouldn't matter. You can safely decline whatever updates you want now and if you later make the move to 10 you will still get the latest version with whatever updates are needed to bring it up to date.
I've successfully downloaded Windows 10 and all seems to be running normally. So far so good. Now I'm running the disk cleanup utility to remove Windows 7 to free up disk space. The utility says I can free up 32.3 GB if I delete "Previous Windows installations." Does that seem high?
I don't recall whether I had XP on this machine before Windows 7 -- is it possible both XP and 7 are still there and account for the 32 GB? I'd love to recapture 32 GB -- am I safe to check the box next to "Previous Windows installations"? Could there be any impact to the Windows 10 install? (My machine is a 2012 Samsung Series 9 laptop.) Thanks.
I don't recall whether I had XP on this machine before Windows 7 -- is it possible both XP and 7 are still there and account for the 32 GB? I'd love to recapture 32 GB -- am I safe to check the box next to "Previous Windows installations"? Could there be any impact to the Windows 10 install? (My machine is a 2012 Samsung Series 9 laptop.) Thanks.
No, no it's win 7. Win 7 is notorious for taking up drive space by keeping backups of every program installation it performs.
Upthread I posted a link to the fee version if Macrium Reflect. Use this program to make full image of your current setup onto DVDs or an external hard drive. Once that's done, you can let Windows 10 do the deletion of old OS. If something then goes wrong, you can restore the image.
Thanks, Harry. That's a good call. Image made, Windows 7 deleted, and everything rebooted fine. I also downloaded Duplicate Cleaner Pro, which helped me identity 5 GB of pictures I had in multiple files. So that plus deleting 7 means I'm in good shape now on disk space. Thanks again.
I bought a laptop with Windows 10 preinstalled. I am having a problem which seems to be a common, known issue. Not asking for help here, just letting people know. I have multiple accounts on the computer - mine, wife's, guest account. On my account the start menu, the system tray, and Cortana stopped working. I had to sign out of my account and open another one just to shut down. I tried everything suggested in the forums with no positive result. Everything continued to work fine on the other accounts. I finally had to create a new account for myself and transfer everything over, thorough pain in the ass. Then 2 weeks later the same thing happened again, once again only to my account. For those of you upgrading to Windows 10, beware.
For those wondering what happens when the 'free upgrade' offer ends for Win 10. Now understand, Ed Bott is pretty much an uncritical MS shill at ZDNet, always minimizing any adverse issues or incidents and always cheerleading that everyone should upgrade to whatever MS churns out. (He used to be a lead author of many of those 800+ page books on using MS Office apps, and his income was quite dependent on writing new ones every 2/3 years) In this case his speculations on what MS will do mirror what almost every other observer has guessed, because it's all quite logical:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/what-happens-free-windows-10-upgrades-after-july-29-2016/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61
http://www.zdnet.com/article/what-happens-free-windows-10-upgrades-after-july-29-2016/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61
Microsoft has now made Windows 10 a "recommended" update, which will cause it to download automatically if your settings are set to default.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/222326-look-out-microsoft-shifts-windows-10-to-recommended-update-automatic-download
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/222326-look-out-microsoft-shifts-windows-10-to-recommended-update-automatic-download
So I updated the virtual Windows setup I'm running from 7 to 10, and one thing that's now gone is the version of IE I had, and in particular, an auto-refresh extension which I used so I wasn't booted out of a Citrix login every few minutes. Anyone know of any such thing for "Edge"?
And now we see another piece of the puzzle in MSFT's business plan for free Windows 10 upgrades:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3037396/windows/windows-10-lock-screen-ads-begin-with-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-push.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3037396/windows/windows-10-lock-screen-ads-begin-with-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-push.html
Those who want to keep control of if and when you 'upgrade' need to download GWX Control Panel here:
http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
I'm almost on the verge of considering the possibility of maybe thinking about switching to WIN 10 from Win 7 Professional.
- I see a lot of recommendations to do so because it's better than WIN 8 or WIN 7 (but no references to 7 Professional). Trying to find out if some important functionality will now be lost.
- I have no use for WIN 8 or touch functions. I have a desktop.
- I assume it supports Chrome so I'm not stuck with U2's guitarist
Can anyone point me to a rational or definitive recommendation online, particularly one that includes all the appropriate tips to avoid whatever optional bullshit MS has included as default? I've read this entire thread, and there are things like derekson's link that have me concerned (how is anyone supposed to know this stuff?)
I assume that whatever I do, it should wait until after I finish my Turbotax crap for this year.
{Then I'm going to have a question about imaging...I have yer SSD C: with the operating system on it, yer HD D: for data and yer external HD F: for Crashplan backups}
I know nothing.
- I see a lot of recommendations to do so because it's better than WIN 8 or WIN 7 (but no references to 7 Professional). Trying to find out if some important functionality will now be lost.
- I have no use for WIN 8 or touch functions. I have a desktop.
- I assume it supports Chrome so I'm not stuck with U2's guitarist
Can anyone point me to a rational or definitive recommendation online, particularly one that includes all the appropriate tips to avoid whatever optional bullshit MS has included as default? I've read this entire thread, and there are things like derekson's link that have me concerned (how is anyone supposed to know this stuff?)
I assume that whatever I do, it should wait until after I finish my Turbotax crap for this year.
{Then I'm going to have a question about imaging...I have yer SSD C: with the operating system on it, yer HD D: for data and yer external HD F: for Crashplan backups}
I know nothing.
Windows 10 is what Windows 8 should have been, i.e. an incremental improvement that's adapted to the new form factors that have become prevalent since Windows 7 launch. Last time I used it wasn't as polished, i.e. there were some bugs and some stuff they could improve, but those can and will be corrected with future updates. The major downside is that once you install it, you relinquish some control over your computer with potentially more to lose down that road. This means for example, that from now on, you don't have any control over the computer's updates. That's probably not an issue for most users, but who knows, occasionally microsoft might scew up on an update and there would be nothing for you to do about it. The other thing to keep vigilant about is protecting your privacy. There's a ton of ways with which Microsoft can get to your data and use them for God knows what. For the time being, they can and are used to serve you with ads on the OS you paid with your hard earned money. That's unaccaptable. So, do your research and find the privacy settings you need to turn on so you won't face that.
But other than that, it's a pretty great OS. Either way, before you upgrade, backup your Windows 7 in another hard drive and if you try windows 10 and you don't like, revert back to Windows 7. It should also be said: There's nothing wrong with Windows 7 so far and I can't think of a function that compels me to upgrade to Windows 10 right now...
But other than that, it's a pretty great OS. Either way, before you upgrade, backup your Windows 7 in another hard drive and if you try windows 10 and you don't like, revert back to Windows 7. It should also be said: There's nothing wrong with Windows 7 so far and I can't think of a function that compels me to upgrade to Windows 10 right now...
Just remember: you have 30 days to revert back to 7. After that your backup of 7 becomes useless as MS 'revokes' the rights to 7 you actually purchased and your version of 7 becomes 'unauthorized'. Some of us think you are relinquishing all control over the OS and where MS takes it....both in terms of mistakes in updates and quite deliberate changes to everything else...such as forcing ads into the OS.
MS hits a new low with this month's Update Tuesday:
KB3139929 is a 'security update', the kind you're supposed to think is safe to install...except it also includes KB3146449...which cannot be removed (it doesn't even appear in your list of installed updates). And what does the hidden update do ? It patches IE 11 to install an ad generator that appears on every new tab page...it currently tells you "Microsoft recommends upgrading to Windows 10". The only way to remove this is to uninstall the underlying and legitimate security update.
Oh, this new level of harassment is meant just for individuals: if your machine is connected to a domain, you don't get the hidden KB so they are not harassing their corporate customers...yet.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2450452/updategate-microsoft-is-burying-adware-in-its-own-patch-tuesday-updates
Edit: Spoke too soon...corporate users are getting a different nag screen now:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2450609/updategate-microsoft-nagware-tries-to-turn-workers-against-system-admins
KB3139929 is a 'security update', the kind you're supposed to think is safe to install...except it also includes KB3146449...which cannot be removed (it doesn't even appear in your list of installed updates). And what does the hidden update do ? It patches IE 11 to install an ad generator that appears on every new tab page...it currently tells you "Microsoft recommends upgrading to Windows 10". The only way to remove this is to uninstall the underlying and legitimate security update.
Oh, this new level of harassment is meant just for individuals: if your machine is connected to a domain, you don't get the hidden KB so they are not harassing their corporate customers...yet.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2450452/updategate-microsoft-is-burying-adware-in-its-own-patch-tuesday-updates
Edit: Spoke too soon...corporate users are getting a different nag screen now:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2450609/updategate-microsoft-nagware-tries-to-turn-workers-against-system-admins
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Hmmm. As per your earlier advice, I have been allowing anything labelled "security" and questioning everything else. Yet, when I search my updates, I don't find this one. I just downloaded about 16 updates today, but I can't find it. Anyway, I never use IE, except when, in the past (and hopefully never again), I was instructed to by a Dell tech who was taking over my computer to try to fix it. I am assuming that if you don't use IE you don't have this problem.
It's completely hidden within 3139929 and after install it doesn't appear in your installed list...in short now, for the first time, a 'security update' includes an adware payload. MS keeps breaking boundaries in their ongoing mission to nag, cajole,trick people into moving to 10.
Sorry not to be clear. I searched for 3139929 and couldn't find that. I totally get that this is annoying as hell, I'm just thinking it's really nice if I don't have it.
This latest post by Woody Leonhard, March 12, (if you ever bought a 600 page book on any version of Word or MS Office in the last 15 years, he was probably the author or co-author) confirms that on Windows 7 'spontaneous' upgrades to Win 10 are now happening with regularity. Besides explaining all the ways you can back out, it also includes the most recent and comprehensive list of updates that either help MS do this or otherwise add Win 10 'telemetry' to Win 7/8 thereby reporting home with far more info than MS really has any right to know about what's on your machine and what you do with it. The list is now quite daunting.
http://www.askwoody.com/
http://www.askwoody.com/
I've been on manual updates for my Win 7 for a while now and I haven't done any updating in a couple of months. Is there a master list somewhere of updates to avoid? I have 71 updates pending and I'm not sure which ones (if any) I should be doing. Google isn't much help.
The post by Woody on March 12, see the post here above yours, includes the most recent comprehensive list of updates to avoid I've seen.
Download and run the GWX control panel app mentioned upthread before and after all your Windows Updates, too.
So I'm considering going back to 7. I have two issues. One more serious than the other. The less serious issue is that the MMO that I play (Star Wars The Old Republic) can't run for more than a few minutes without, well.. vanishing. I'm playing, the game is up then it crashes in a flash. It's just not running anymore, and I have to log back in from scratch. It also crashes every time I hit the windows key or Alt-Tab out of the game.
I don't know if it's related to issue 2 or not, but I also have this problem where Windows will randomly decide that I'm at 100% disk usage, no matter what I'm running. Sometimes the supposedly in use resources attach to a program that's running, sometimes they attach to a background function that normally takes up nothing, and sometimes it attaches to my system and compressed memory.
I've tried a few supposed fixes, but nothing sticks. There are suggestions for editing my registry, but I'm worried that I'm more likely to cause new problems than fix the one I'm having by poking around in there. Any suggestions? Or do I have the right idea in wanting to return to 7?
I don't know if it's related to issue 2 or not, but I also have this problem where Windows will randomly decide that I'm at 100% disk usage, no matter what I'm running. Sometimes the supposedly in use resources attach to a program that's running, sometimes they attach to a background function that normally takes up nothing, and sometimes it attaches to my system and compressed memory.
I've tried a few supposed fixes, but nothing sticks. There are suggestions for editing my registry, but I'm worried that I'm more likely to cause new problems than fix the one I'm having by poking around in there. Any suggestions? Or do I have the right idea in wanting to return to 7?
How much memory do you have? If you have a lot, may be this creates a large page file? Also make sure you have disabled the hiberfil.sys file. It takes a lot of space in case you decide to have your pc hibernate.
I'll have to take a closer look. But my HD is only like 60% full, I have 16GB of ram and a quad core 3.2 ghz processor. I don't think I'm actually having a system resource issue.
I'll try disabling that sys file when I get home later. Thanks.
I'll try disabling that sys file when I get home later. Thanks.
From an elevated command prompt: powercfg –H off
That disables hiberfil.sys, you cannot just erase the file.
Yeah, but how big is your drive? if you haven't manually set your page file, then it could be taking 16GB off the bat. Definitely check it out.
I have 32GB of memory and I remember doing a new installation and being extremely perplexed about why I had 40-50GB unaccounted for off the bat.
Either way, it seems unlikely to me that your problem is a Win 10 problem.
I'm getting an unexpected error. "Function failed during execution."
Edit: Never mind. I wasn't in the admin version.
Okay, so disabling hiberfil.sys didn't work. Neither has any of the other half dozen fixes I've tried. I'd like to go back to Windows 7, but I've found that the place I bought my desktop from didn't include a sticker with the product key for windows on it anywhere, which I'm pretty sure they're supposed to do. I tried grabbing it from the registry, but either it's kicking out a fake key when I try to look (which Windows 7 machines are apparently apt to do) or it's kicking out a new key that was generated when I upgraded to 10, because microsoft.com isn't recognizing my key as valid for a Windows 7 download.
I also can't revert through Windows since they delete the 7 files after 30 days without telling you. Anyone have any thoughts on what I can do short of buying a new copy of 7?
Edit: And no, this machine didn't come with any discs for reinstalling. It's a PowerSpec I bought at Micro Center. I'll be giving them a call with my serial number tomorrow to see if I can get the product key over the phone, but I'm not optimistic.
I also can't revert through Windows since they delete the 7 files after 30 days without telling you. Anyone have any thoughts on what I can do short of buying a new copy of 7?
Edit: And no, this machine didn't come with any discs for reinstalling. It's a PowerSpec I bought at Micro Center. I'll be giving them a call with my serial number tomorrow to see if I can get the product key over the phone, but I'm not optimistic.
You are past the 30 days after upgrade, even if you recovered the correct key, it is now invalid in the MS database so reverting to Win 7 using that key will just be treated like any other pirate version of Win 7. The good news is such a invalid copy can't download updates, so there's no danger of getting inadvertently upgraded to Win 10.
I upgraded Friday night, after getting a message I would be upgraded on Monday. I realize I could have postponed, but since my laptop is strictly for entertainment only, and my wife uses her's for work I decided to take one for the team.
The update took about an hour via WiFi. I had no issues beyond a really long load upon the first restart, but that is to be expected. Otherwise, I was pleased to see my old desktop show up after the new login screen. I still need to see how everything works, but I can do what I want to without any issues.
The update took about an hour via WiFi. I had no issues beyond a really long load upon the first restart, but that is to be expected. Otherwise, I was pleased to see my old desktop show up after the new login screen. I still need to see how everything works, but I can do what I want to without any issues.
If you are thinking of allowing an 'upgrade' to Win 10 on any machine, especially any laptop, that is more than roughly 3 years old and you ever use the Miracast (WiDi drivers) features of Intel graphics...don't. Intel has announced, to a great deal of angry response, that they will NOT be issuing ANY Win 10 WiDi drivers for Win 10...period. Basically this means any machine using Intel 3000 or lower graphics (1st & 2nd generation Sandy Bridge i3, i5 or i7 cpus). Obviously any desktop machine can probably upgrade to later graphics cards to get around this, but laptops are being effectively dead-ended. Since MS has/had no direct knowledge or control of this Intel decision, you may well have a laptop that is being encouraged to make the change even though the resulting OS will never support features you currently have...so beware:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3052192/microsoft-windows/intel-draws-fire-for-not-writing-win10-drivers-for-older-sandy-bridge-pcs.html
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3052192/microsoft-windows/intel-draws-fire-for-not-writing-win10-drivers-for-older-sandy-bridge-pcs.html
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Couperin, mine is one of the laptops in question, and I queried Intel, as was suggested. Now they have gotten back to me asking me to send them a copy of my DxDiag report, which I have managed to follow directions and do, but have not sent the return email yet. Do you have any more info on this? I am in no hurry to go to Win10 but may have to down the road. Intel seems to be implying (maybe they got a lot of grief from customers?) they can fix things if they have the report.
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There is nothing to 'fix', all sending that info will do is help them confirm what cpu/video hardware your laptop contains. If it's one of those using Intel 3000 or earlier video, Intel is so far adamant that there will be NO WiDi drivers released by them to support Win 10...period. There is zero chance anyone else will write such an updated driver and unless extended public reaction convinces Intel to change course, case closed. The great majority of laptop users are probably unaware of the Miracast feature or the WiDi driver and will never notice that upgrading to Win 10 has 'lost' them this feature. If you need the feature, stay with 7 or 8.1. And no one "has to" upgrade to10..now being forced to because you can't avoid the tricks and traps MS is using is not the same thing as 'forced to' and installing GWX Control Panel is a painless method to avoid being victimized by MS in this manner.
What I meant about "having to" upgrade to Win10 is that I expect I will feel nervous about using Win7 after they no longer support it.
I have zero idea if I need that driver. So I guess I'll just stand pat.
(So far I have avoided "the tricks and traps" by reading every update before I allow it on the computer. Maybe I've just been lucky. . . )
I have zero idea if I need that driver. So I guess I'll just stand pat.
(So far I have avoided "the tricks and traps" by reading every update before I allow it on the computer. Maybe I've just been lucky. . . )
So you have avoided being unintentionally upgraded, but has the 6 Gig payload to make this happen already been installed on your machine ? Have literally dozens of updates that add Win 10 'telemetry' been added to your Win 7 so now it reports tons of info about what's installed on your machine and how you use it now being reported to MS (which didn't 'need' all this info for years until they decided they should better emulate Google, Facebook and others and maximally intrude on your computer and what you do with it?).
For the umpteenth time take 2 mins, go to http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
Download the GWX Control Panel, it takes all of 15 seconds to install, and see what MS has already installed on your box 'in preparation'.
You also seem to have an irrational fear of "MS ending support' Exactly what do you think this means ? As it is, MS security patches for 7 or 8.1 close a tiny fraction of the available vectors for infection or compromise. Anyone who has not carefully closed a ton of vectors via a survey such as Belarc Advisor, and does not have good quality A/V and malware installed and actively running (and almost all 'free' options are at this point inadequate) are likely to be excellent candidates for infection at any time. None of this will change in the slightest when 'support' ends. It will, literally, be years after MS ends support for 7 before any software developer decides to issue any product or upgrade that doesn't run on 7. Since 7 and 8.1 are almost trivially different, there would be no legitimate reason to issue software that runs on 8.1 but cannot run on 7. On the day that software appears that requires Win 10 as a minimum, I'll wager whatever you're running right now will have gone to recycling years ago. Exactly what is it about running a 'supported' version that makes you feel more secure ?