https://fancredsports.com/articles/jon-heyman-scott-boras-says-the-severe-shift-is
I don't know Boras... Why don't you tell your Clients to learn to hit the other way?
Whats next, Banning the curveball because its discriminatory?
Scott Boras says extreme shift is “discriminatory"
- Thread starter soxhop411
- Start date
I don't know Boras... Why don't you tell your Clients to learn to hit the other way?
Whats next, Banning the curveball because its discriminatory?
While we are on the topic, it's time for the nba to do something about their notorious bigotry against short people.
Shouldn't he have made this complaint about 20 years ago when left-handed power hitters were the only guys facing a shift, rather than now when it's done against everyone?
*
*
Yeah, I don't get this at all. How are hitters not being treated equally? Aren't teams free to play the mirror image D against either handed bat?
Perhaps every time a lefty comes to bat first base should be moved a foot or two further back because of the unfair advantage that they have getting down the line vs a right handed hitter. And perhaps we should take a look at left handed relief "specialists" being brought in for the sole purpose of getting one out against a left handed hitter.
Last edited:
It's (kind of obviously) much harder to do against RHH because the 1B needs to stay close to the bag, you can't expect him to hold down one side of the infield by himself the same way a plus SS or 3B can do against LHH.
i saw this article posted elsewhere and came here to post it. Truly ridiculous. I imagine he knows Harper is not getting any 400 million dollar deal and is trying to make some sort of case for his "binder". But at this point, while he is a great hitter, he really isnt a very complete player. Average defensively, doesnt steal bases. Good slugger, but I wouldnt want to give him Stanton's deal at this point.
I would LOVE to play in MLB, but I can’t hit 98mph heat (or curveballs... or sliders... or changeups...) they should ban all that shit and all pitchers should do light underhand tosses to me. Because to do otherwise is discriminatory against middle aged and out of shape people. There ought to be a law!
With a runner on, sure. And that’s still a decision the team makes. Okay, so this is indeed silly.
To be fair, I'd like to see the context, but using the word "discriminatory" is just flat out offensive.
Did he ever complain that having a shortstop on the left side, but not on the right side was unfair. Is he arguing that we should adjust the ERA etc of the pitchers he reps upward to compensate for the unfair advantage they're gaining?
Did he ever complain that having a shortstop on the left side, but not on the right side was unfair. Is he arguing that we should adjust the ERA etc of the pitchers he reps upward to compensate for the unfair advantage they're gaining?
Shifts do disproportionately disadvantage left handed hitters for the reason jimbosox notes, since we run bases counterclockwise. Boras isn’t wrong about that, even if he has money as a motive.
The question to me is whether that’s bad for baseball. Lefty hitters are good for baseball and there already are other disadvantages given the direction in which we run bases. Lefties, unless they throw different from how they bat, are only eligible for half of the defensive positions. Exacerbating that by making them subject to an effective defense that you can more readily play against them than righties, based on a happenstance, is worthy of discussion. And even more so if you believe the lefty strike really is a phenomenon.
Not because of “discrimination” in the fairness sense, but because we don’t really want them all playing soccer instead. Or making a class of players who teams have invested heavily in suddenly disproportionately less effective. You want the JBJs of the world to be out there and the difference between .220 and .240 will cost him a ton of money and could cost baseball the chance to have a beautiful defensive player stick, in a way that Eduardo Nunez never has to worry about.
In the end, I think this is overblown somewhat because it ignores the platoon advantage caused by the fact that most major league non-platoon players see more right handed pitching. But it’s a valid discussion. The Commissioner is talking about it. The people who pay the bills — the networks — are talking about it. It’s a thing.
The question to me is whether that’s bad for baseball. Lefty hitters are good for baseball and there already are other disadvantages given the direction in which we run bases. Lefties, unless they throw different from how they bat, are only eligible for half of the defensive positions. Exacerbating that by making them subject to an effective defense that you can more readily play against them than righties, based on a happenstance, is worthy of discussion. And even more so if you believe the lefty strike really is a phenomenon.
Not because of “discrimination” in the fairness sense, but because we don’t really want them all playing soccer instead. Or making a class of players who teams have invested heavily in suddenly disproportionately less effective. You want the JBJs of the world to be out there and the difference between .220 and .240 will cost him a ton of money and could cost baseball the chance to have a beautiful defensive player stick, in a way that Eduardo Nunez never has to worry about.
In the end, I think this is overblown somewhat because it ignores the platoon advantage caused by the fact that most major league non-platoon players see more right handed pitching. But it’s a valid discussion. The Commissioner is talking about it. The people who pay the bills — the networks — are talking about it. It’s a thing.
Sinister post!That left-hander, he's a real credit to his dexterity.
I'm with DDB, and (I guess) Boras here. Ridiculous to call it discrimination, but there's no reason the game shouldn't take a look the effect of the shift, and consider rule changes that benefit the game, just as every other sport does.
Agreed, the shift is boring. Seeing sluggers hit rockets into a web of 5 players isn’t really great entertainment. Don’t care about fairness or discrimination (lol, ok), it just sucks to watch.
There's no question it's bad for baseball IF we all agree that more offense is good for baseball. So far the shift has prevented an estimated 1,000 hits this year (per MLB Network, I can't find the source). Personally, I don't see any reason why fans should feel strongly that dramatic shifts need to be allowed.
Oh for Pete's sake. Games evolve. Learning to hit the other way is the answer, not legislation.
How do you feel about switching defenses in the NBA? Or should guys have to declare who they are guarding and stick with them?
That 1000 is interesting. While it doesn't balance out, they should be subtracting the number of hits that shifting allowed, to at least see if players are getting better at beating it.
And Joe maddon will say, "that guy? He's my 4th outfielder. No rule against that, is there?"
I've been seeing some things saying that a change is contemplated that all infielders must have at least one foot in the dirt area. According to the current MLB Rule 2.01:
The grass lines and dimensions shown on the diagrams are those used in many fields, but they are not mandatory and each club shall determine the size and shape of the grassed and bare areas of its
playing field.
The "one foot in the dirt rule" won't work unless that section of the rules is standardized.
The grass lines and dimensions shown on the diagrams are those used in many fields, but they are not mandatory and each club shall determine the size and shape of the grassed and bare areas of its
playing field.
The "one foot in the dirt rule" won't work unless that section of the rules is standardized.
Any rule they made would be overly complex, confusing, and lead to long-winded incomprehensible explanations from announcers. So baseball is definitely going to do it eventually.
And you can't line up in foul ground in baseball.
You shouldn't legislate this, let the game evolve like it always has
I don't even agree that it's notably reduced offense in the first place.
I'm not sure when extreme shifts began, but it's worth noting that the average runs per game was at low ebb 2011-2015 and has already rebounded quite a bit. So what's the problem?
You can't say it doesn't reduce offense when the entire purpose of the defensive shift is to reduce offense. There are a number of analytical offsets happening to the game right now all at once and you can't just look at runs to determine whether or not one piece is impacting the game. I'm sure less stealing, less bunting, smarter baserunning, and the "fly-ball" revolution are all off-setting and/or exceeding the impact of shifts. So, to that point, maybe it's a bit of running in place.
Learn to push the ball down the third base line or between third and the pitchers mound, especially if you're leading off an inning. If the other team is willing to give you a hit that way why trying to prevent you from getting one the other way why are so many players opposed to taking it? Isn't the idea to get on base? Guys will work a walk to get on base, why the Hell don't they take something that is practically being handed to them? I hate the shift as much as most people do, but it's an effective defensive strategy. Defenses shift to some degree no matter who the hitter is and this is an evolution of that. How often do we hear that baseball is a game of adjustments?
Yeah, David Cone has been talking a lot about 'butcher boy' lately and he is right, if teams are going to leave a whole side open, how do you not take a shot there at least? Especially guys who are slumping, you get guys who are 0 for their last 20, they come up with the left side totally open and swing through three pitches (hello Joey Gallo). Obviously I understand zero about the reality of being a major league hitter, but still.
Personally I am much more interested in seeing the hitters try to adapt to the shifts than I am in legislation against it. If a team plays six guys on the right side of the field against a hitter like the pic below and can somehow get away with it, that to me is an awesome feature, not a bug. Gallo grounded right to Correa in the heart of this insane shift, so good job defensive positioning.
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/astros-put-on-extreme-infield-shift-for-joey-gallo/c-276323524
I mean, if Gallo can push the ball anywhere to the left of the pitcher, he would have an easy 'double'. I think the calculus that would allow Hinch to decide to give that up and have it work is fascinating, I get that that is not universal.
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/astros-put-on-extreme-infield-shift-for-joey-gallo/c-276323524
I mean, if Gallo can push the ball anywhere to the left of the pitcher, he would have an easy 'double'. I think the calculus that would allow Hinch to decide to give that up and have it work is fascinating, I get that that is not universal.
It's an incomplete thought. If it isn't working, I think that you can make a fair assumption that usage wouldn't be increasing.
The real NBA corollary is the hand checking rule which they changed and which allowed perimeter offense to flourish. It’s not unprecedented for rules to be changed to benefit offenses. Sport is entertainment anyway, there’s no real reason that we shouldn’t stop the game evolving if it’s heading towards a situation that is more boring to watch.
They should trial at a lower league and see the effects.
The NBA is more popular than it ever was because it’s more fun to watch. A huge part of that is because of the hand check rule. MLB should consider making changes if it’s going to result in more entertainment.
They should trial at a lower league and see the effects.
The NBA is more popular than it ever was because it’s more fun to watch. A huge part of that is because of the hand check rule. MLB should consider making changes if it’s going to result in more entertainment.
Remember when opposing teams used to dare Rondo to take jumpers and didn't cover him outside of 15 feet or so and then he learned how to make jumpers?
That was awesome.
That was awesome.
To me the real NBA corollary is leaving guys wide open at the three point line who can't shoot from there. That guy has to learn shoot or teams will always play off him and double better shooters.
Which is why players score such a stupid amount. I lost interest in basketball.... I mean... it hit me one day that the same size court that I played on as a 7 year old is the same size court that guys who are 6'8" play on. Games that score more than 20 points are just crazy.... .I would love it if there was more intensity on the defensive side of basketball and it was more difficult and challenging to score. Now it's basically the equivalent of a slug fest.... it's fun for a game or two to watch then it just gets fucking boring.
Yeah, why anyone doesn't just bunt for a hit there is beyond me. Maybe Gallo can't bunt at all, which wouldn't be a shock. It's interesting because teams moved away from bunting because it's a waste of an out... so players probably aren't all that good at bunting anymore... and it's the one easy way to beat the shift.Personally I am much more interested in seeing the hitters try to adapt to the shifts than I am in legislation against it. If a team plays six guys on the right side of the field against a hitter like the pic below and can somehow get away with it, that to me is an awesome feature, not a bug. Gallo grounded right to Correa in the heart of this insane shift, so good job defensive positioning.
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/astros-put-on-extreme-infield-shift-for-joey-gallo/c-276323524
I mean, if Gallo can push the ball anywhere to the left of the pitcher, he would have an easy 'double'. I think the calculus that would allow Hinch to decide to give that up and have it work is fascinating, I get that that is not universal.
Outside of the late 80s and 90's, players have always scored ridiculous amounts. The 90's was also where basketball was its ugliest despite Jordan. Did you really like Bad Boy basketball? The Pistons ruined basketball for like 10 years.
With apologies to edoug (who got there first) Ted Williams would disagree.
The shift is not new. Nor is the secret to beating it. Here's a picture that demonstrates both points:
Why not just have everyone run the opposite way when the batter is left-handed? The first and third basemen swap bags along with any runners on first/third and everyone shifts as the stats dictate. Problem solved...and after all, if the Swedes could switch the side of the road they drove on overnight, one could expect professional ballplayers to handle this with no problem.
Well, if Ted Williams could do it, anyone can.With apologies to edoug (who got there first) Ted Williams would disagree.
The shift is not new. Nor is the secret to beating it. Here's a picture that demonstrates both points: