Sorry @mr_smith02 I should have broken yours out
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1600619301387800577?s=20&t=IruPehiY8QjKpRcQRSdkEw
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1600619301387800577?s=20&t=IruPehiY8QjKpRcQRSdkEw
Ryan Miller Selected in Rule 5 (via Yankees)
- Thread starter AlNipper49
- Start date
I didn't see this in the Minor League forum, but I guess I'm a little sad that we lost Thad Ward (to WA). The fact that he went #1 only compounds the feeling, but oh well, good luck to him.
I also saw that the Phils took Noah Song and "put him on the military list so he would not count toward their 40-man roster," so I'm a little perplexed as to why we couldn't just do that and keep him ourselves.
I also saw that the Phils took Noah Song and "put him on the military list so he would not count toward their 40-man roster," so I'm a little perplexed as to why we couldn't just do that and keep him ourselves.
Do you need to be on the 40 first ?
And as many have pointed out, that doesn’t let Philly get around the rule 5 requirements… just pushes it back.
The Military List is a function of the 40-man roster, so the Red Sox could have added Song to the 40-man roster and then moved him to the Military List, just as the Phillies are doing. Song still would have been credited for major-league service time but would not have counted against the 40-man limit and his option years would have been unaffected.
Former Red Sox major-league Rule 5 choice Jonathan Arauz— Chaim Bloom’s first-ever draft pick— was selected by the Mets from the Orioles in the third round of the minor-league portion of the 2022 Rule 5 Draft.
The fourth round of the minor-league portion included former Red Sox (June) 2019 second-round pick Cam Cannon, one of seven players selected by the Phillies.
Hate hate that there's any chance we lost Song but we can always hope to get him back if Philly doesn't fulfill the rule 5 active roster requirement. Also don't understand why Ward was not protected while Hamilton and Abreu were.
Thirteen of the 15 major-league Rule 5 picks this year were pitchers:
11 RHP
2 LHP
1 1B
1 OF
That divide is even more pronounced than the five prior Rule 5 Drafts, when 76% of picks were pitchers.
Coincidentally, none of this year’s 15 Rule 5 picks were slap-hitting water-bug utility infielders.
I don't get why they didn't protect him. He's 25, still should have a lot of mileage on his arm since he hasn't been pitching, was a top prospect coming out of college (but fell in the draft because of the armed services commitment), and he appears close (finally) to being able to start a baseball career. All I can think is that the Sox know for some reason that he won't be able to pitch for the next few years, or he slammed his arm in a training drill and can no longer throw a 96-mph fastball, or? ... I don't know.
It just seems really dumb, unless I'm missing something? Especially when the Sox are taking two players from other teams that they'll have to put on the 40-man. What's the front office thinking on this one?
Losing Andrew Politi to the Orioles kind of sucks, too, even though that one probably slid under the radar for most people.
At AAA, he had 56 IP and 63 K, with a BAA of .194 and a WHIP of 1.04. He had even better numbers in Portland. Some people might look at those numbers and see a fairly fungible reliever, but I'd take him over a Kaleb Ort type.
At AAA, he had 56 IP and 63 K, with a BAA of .194 and a WHIP of 1.04. He had even better numbers in Portland. Some people might look at those numbers and see a fairly fungible reliever, but I'd take him over a Kaleb Ort type.
Yep. The only reason I can see not protecting Ward (for sure) and Politi (to a lesser extent) is if they figure those guys won't last the year on an MLB roster. I really don't think there is any chance of getting Ward back, since the Nats likely have nothing to play for anyway, but Politi might come back from the O's. I wouldn't count on it, though.
Minor league rule 5 guys don’t go on the 40 man, just the ones from the initial MLB phase, in which BOS took no one.
I wonder if the Sox left him unprotected because of his age (26) and because of the possibility that his dominant 2022 stats in Portland were a function of being 1.5 years older than the average age of a AA player. It's also curious that they didn't call him up for a cup of coffee at some point during the lost 2022 season.
Thanksgiving. There's never a disappointment in the preparation, the food or the company.
Ah, thanks for the explainer. But the Sox could have protected Song had they put him on the 40 man, right? I know you don't want to put someone who hasn't played a day of minor league ball on the 40 man, but because they didn't, it looks like this is the outcome.
To be fair, I guess I'm most irked at this, emphasis mine (from the MILB site):
Song hasn't spent "multiple years" in the minors. He hasn't spent one day in the minors. That seems like a raw deal for a team that drafts someone in his situation, to run the risk of losing him without seeing him play one minute of minor league ball. This seems like a flawed rule for draftees like Song.
The point of the rule 5 draft is to not let organizations keep guys in the minors forever, there's not an exception for military service unfortunately.
It's not a perfectly designed system, in 2017 the Padres took NY's catcher of the future, Luis Torrens, who needed to be protected but was still years away from potentially being a major leaguer (he was still 20). SD kept him on the MLB roster all season because they weren't competing anyway, then once they had secured his rights for good, sent him back down to high A for 2018 and it wasn't until 2021 that he got an extended shot in MLB (378 PAs). This maneuvering helped his eventual service time and pension qualifying but it probably really hurt his career, as he needed to be playing every day in the minors, not sitting around a MLB clubhouse on the bench so that SD could steal his rights.
The crucial thing to remember about the rule 5 is that once someone goes on your 40 man, they have to stay on there forever or be exposed to waivers. If they're on waivers, anyone can grab them without having to keep them on the active roster, so sometimes it makes sense to leave guys off and hope no one will take them. None of this really applies to Song, who is obviously a pretty unique case.
It's not a perfectly designed system, in 2017 the Padres took NY's catcher of the future, Luis Torrens, who needed to be protected but was still years away from potentially being a major leaguer (he was still 20). SD kept him on the MLB roster all season because they weren't competing anyway, then once they had secured his rights for good, sent him back down to high A for 2018 and it wasn't until 2021 that he got an extended shot in MLB (378 PAs). This maneuvering helped his eventual service time and pension qualifying but it probably really hurt his career, as he needed to be playing every day in the minors, not sitting around a MLB clubhouse on the bench so that SD could steal his rights.
The crucial thing to remember about the rule 5 is that once someone goes on your 40 man, they have to stay on there forever or be exposed to waivers. If they're on waivers, anyone can grab them without having to keep them on the active roster, so sometimes it makes sense to leave guys off and hope no one will take them. None of this really applies to Song, who is obviously a pretty unique case.
They didn't think there was any chance a team would take him because they'd be forced to keep him on the major league roster all season, which is something it makes no sense to do with a guy who has never pitched above Low A and hasn't pitched in years. Protecting him would have meant not protecting someone else.
I hear you, but at some point the calculus changes ... if this is Steven Strasburg or Bryce Harper who slipped to the third or fourth round because he has a military commitment, I'd think that a team would burn one of the spots on the 40 man. But I realize Song isn't perceived to be a talent on that level.
What's annoying though is that the Sox even have to protect him. Thanks Ripley for noting that he pitched in 7 games, but that's hardly the type of player the rule 5 is meant to apply to, it seems. As Jon said, it's so that clubs can't keep talented guys in the minor leagues forever. That hardly seems to be relevant for a guy that's pitched a grand total of 7 games in the minors before being called away for military service.
If I were the Sox, I'd be lobbying to fix that rule.
espn: As it pertains to Song:
That rule, pushed through by former President Donald Trump in 2019, appears on the cusp of being revoked. Tucked in Section 553 of the National Defense Authorization Act, which passed the Senate on Thursday and is headed to President Joe Biden's desk, is language that states an "agreement by a cadet or midshipman to play professional sport constitutes a breach of service obligation."
The bill covers the Army, Navy and Air Force and states: "The cadet may not obtain employment, including as a professional athlete, until after completing the cadet's commissioned service obligation." That obligation is, according to Army, five years of active duty and three years in the individual ready reserve.
The change is expected to take place when the bill is signed, which could be as early as next week. Carter and other current athletes at service academies would not get a legacy exception, meaning they would lose the ability to immediately pursue professional sports opportunities.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35264496/bill-nix-nfl-draft-army-1st-round-hopeful-andre-carter-ii
That rule, pushed through by former President Donald Trump in 2019, appears on the cusp of being revoked. Tucked in Section 553 of the National Defense Authorization Act, which passed the Senate on Thursday and is headed to President Joe Biden's desk, is language that states an "agreement by a cadet or midshipman to play professional sport constitutes a breach of service obligation."
The bill covers the Army, Navy and Air Force and states: "The cadet may not obtain employment, including as a professional athlete, until after completing the cadet's commissioned service obligation." That obligation is, according to Army, five years of active duty and three years in the individual ready reserve.
The change is expected to take place when the bill is signed, which could be as early as next week. Carter and other current athletes at service academies would not get a legacy exception, meaning they would lose the ability to immediately pursue professional sports opportunities.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35264496/bill-nix-nfl-draft-army-1st-round-hopeful-andre-carter-ii
Bumping this cause I keep seeing grumbling about not protecting Ward around different threads, and I'm not quite sure why. Is it just that he went first overall and it's another thing to yell at Bloom about? He was like a mid-teens prospect for us; here's what Keith Law had to say about him in the AFL this year:
That doesn't sound like the greatest loss to me honestly. Anyone here seen him in person or have a source that was more impressed by his performance this year?
Actually it sounds like he's a guy they could get back when he doesn't make the Nationals roster.