Ryan Brasier retweets video mocking Jacob Blake response

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MDLzera
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Like 5 people in this thread are saying get rid of him immediately, so yeah.
I think you're missing the distinction several of us have made between him holding a belief, or expressing it privately, vs expressing it very publicly in an attention-grabbing manner, as he did.

People are saying get rid of him because of the latter. We rooted for Trot Nixon and Mike Timlin because they only ever did the former, plus a little giving glory to Jesus in a postgame interview. We had pretty strong indicators of what their politics likely were, but nobody got on their case. Of course, their beliefs never drove them to mock a fellow local hero for expressing the pain he'd been through in the form of discrimination, either. Regardless, what Brasier did is very different than any of the other numerous conservative men who have played for our team.
 

cornwalls@6

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I think you're missing the distinction several of us have made between him holding a belief, or expressing it privately, vs expressing it very publicly in an attention-grabbing manner, as he did.

People are saying get rid of him because of the latter. We rooted for Trot Nixon and Mike Timlin because they only ever did the former, plus a little giving glory to Jesus in a postgame interview. We had pretty strong indicators of what their politics likely were, but nobody got on their case. Of course, their beliefs never drove them to mock a fellow local hero for expressing the pain he'd been through in the form of discrimination, either. Regardless, what Brasier did is very different than any of the other numerous conservative men who have played for our team.
Thank you. This exactly. It wasn't a thoughtful expression of his beliefs. It was ridiculing someone, who was expressing his pain and experiences as a black man in America. Mediocre, slappy reliever gets no slack, or benefit of the doubt. And frankly, neither should a star player for that idiocy.
 

Ed Hillel

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From a chemistry standpoint alone, he probably needs to go. Holding views on whether a shooting is justified or not is one thing, being this crass about someone who said something as profound and emotional as Doc, in the very city Doc represented well, is another.

Thank God social media didn’t exist in 2004.
 

joe dokes

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I just want to know if we really want our employers to fire folks because they have views we disagree with.

But if you want to term it firing someone because they're stupid, I'm not sure how professional sports survives.
Not because of their views, but because they express them. Be a fucking racist, I don't care what you *think.* (Not you you) But keep it to yourself while we play as a team. In a different context, I meet you, and I think your wife is hot. I'm gonna go home and play with myself, not hit on her. Because I am not a sack of shit. Ryan brasier is a sack of shit.
Thoughts vs. acts.
 
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bosockboy

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If you’re a professional athlete you are held to a higher standard for that privilege. The JDM example is a good one. Beliefs held to oneself or through voting is acceptable within reason.

Celebrating vile thoughts publicly is another.

He crossed the line and should be gone.
 

grimshaw

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Roenicke shouldn't get a free pass here either. There are plenty of coaches/managers perfectly willing to call out their players. In this town especially trying to rehabilitate its image there should be more accountability from top to bottom. Sam Kennedy better have strong words or none of their pre season statement means a whole hell of a lot.
 

cornwalls@6

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Roenicke shouldn't get a free pass here either. There are plenty of coaches/managers perfectly willing to call out their players. In this town especially trying to rehabilitate its image there should be more accountability from top to bottom. Sam Kennedy better have strong words or none of their pre season statement means a whole hell of a lot.
I don't think a place-holder, keep the seat warm manager has much impact. But I agree, Kennedy, Werner, and Henry need to make strong statements condemning this.
 

joe dokes

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Roenicke shouldn't get a free pass here either. There are plenty of coaches/managers perfectly willing to call out their players. In this town especially trying to rehabilitate its image there should be more accountability from top to bottom. Sam Kennedy better have strong words or none of their pre season statement means a whole hell of a lot.
Especially in a season where the games themselves have taken a backseat to current events.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I mean in 2005, Jay Payton was just a general hard-ass and miserable in the clubhouse over PT, and Tito basically left him in Chicago if I'm not mistaken while the rest of the team flew home until Theo traded him away. It probably doesn't even rise to the disrespect at least a handful of players must feel due to Brazier's actions.
 

snowmanny

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Do you think he has net positive value for the team going forward, baseball-wise, chemistry-wise, brand-wise, community-wise?
 

Minneapolis Millers

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You talk to and interact with a guy every day, maybe room with him on the road, you get a good feel for who he is, what he thinks. You might not agree with him. You might vehemently disagree. But if he keeps his more outrageous thoughts and beliefs to himself, then ok, we’re teammates. I don’t have to love and agree with all my teammates.

But. Start posting the noxious crap online? (Or, say, start proselytizing openly, that sort of thing.). Make it public so that lots of people start talking, maybe asking you questions about him. That becomes a problem. Thus, beliefs are different from actions, especially public actions. Pretty big difference, actually.

If your mom does something you don’t like and you think - “Asshole!” - you’re safe. If you say “Asshole!” and she hears you, you’re screwed. Especially if others hear you say it.

Make sense?
 

curly2

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I just wish all the brave bigots behind keyboards would just once have to face the targets their ignorance -- and not for a physical beating.

I would like to see Doc Rivers look Brasier in the eye, ask "What's so funny about what I said," and make Brasier give him an answer.
 

Beomoose

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I just want to know if we really want our employers to fire folks because they have views we disagree with.

But if you want to term it firing someone because they're stupid, I'm not sure how professional sports survives.
Walk into any corporate retail establishment in America and ask the first employee you meet what will happen to their job if their manager finds out they've been posting offensive stuff on their social media. Nobody's saying he has to buy a BLM shirt or can't for for Trump, we're saying he crossed a line. He maY have offended some of his fellow employees and he definitely hurt the organization as a whole. That's the sort of thing which usually gets you fired, if your employer cares enough to act
 

FisksFinger

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For those that are saying he has a right to express his beliefs, that is true. Problem is, he didn’t express a belief (like “we need to support cops” for example) but instead he mocked someone else’s belief.

That’s being a dick and needs to come with consequences from his employer.
 

cornwalls@6

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I just wish all the brave bigots behind keyboards would just once have to face the targets their ignorance -- and not for a physical beating.

I would like to see Doc Rivers look Brasier in the eye, ask "What's so funny about what I said," and make Brasier give him an answer.
Exactly. A substantial, honorable man expresses, from the heart, his feelings and experiences about the issue that continues to plague America more than any other. And this red neck shit head’s first instinct is to mock him for it. Would love to see somebody corner him, and ask, aggressively, why? What do you get out of that?
 

E5 Yaz

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Red Sox manager Ron Roenicke said vice president of media relations Kevin Gregg brought Brasier’s retweet and other content from Brasier’s timeline to his attention.

“Ryan Brasier contacted me, a long text. We talked over the phone,” Roenicke said via Zoom on Friday. “He had already talked to Jackie (Bradley Jr.). He had already talked to (first base coach Tom Goodwin). He explained he was watching on TV, watching the convention (Republican National Convention) and he wasn’t really thinking about timing of anything but just tweeted out some things. From him to me, there was no malice about anything that was going on in anything he said. That’s something, I don’t want to speak too much for Ryan but that is what he relayed to me.”

 

E5 Yaz

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The Red Sox didn't hold a team meeting about canceling their game against the Blue Jays in Buffalo as a form of protest. They didn't discuss following the lead of the NBA, which saw its entire slate of playoff games wiped clean, or even the lead of the Celtics, who had made it clear a day earlier that they didn't know if they'd be able to take the floor for Thursday's Game 1 against the Raptors.
Instead, Bradley spoke with manager Ron Roenicke and backup catcher Kevin Plawecki. We only know this because a local reporter criticized the team for not consulting him, and Bradley corrected the record to note the two who did -- which was effectively even more damning. Just the manager and the second-string catcher. No other teammates. No members of the front office? No one in ownership?

 

DeadlySplitter

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Tomase is a shitbag looking for controversy. But, there might actually be controversy here this time, so...
 

flymrfreakjar

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Ugh he was actually rebuilding some value lately too, might have been able to get something useful for him. Couldn’t he have held off being an intolerant douche for like five more days? At least publicly...
 

SydneySox

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This.
It's amazing how easily people descend to insanity.
The insanity of deliberately using a straw man argument?

Not a single person has advocated getting rid of him because of his views, and that has been pointed out several times to the three people who have illegitimately argued that fallacy and yet not one of you have come back to walk it back or try another path.

It's long been known there are people on the red Sox with 'views' on the Trump right of the political spectrum. People post about that knowledge all the time. And yet, no one has started a thread like this calling for them to go.
 

Leskanic's Thread

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The issue is that in the Trump era, political discourse on the right has become so grotesque and so offensive, that duplicating it can cross lines.

Advocating for tax cuts, wars even is within normal discourse. But what if Brasier, had done a video mocking the disabled reporter as Trump did? Is that political speech because the President did it? What If he talked about "grabbing them by the pussy."

We should not be punishing people for political views, but nor should we be treating cruelty and racism as legitimate political views just because they come from a politician.
The bolded said what I was thinking better than I could phrase it. It's high time that we as a society stop backsliding into allowing open racism to exist with a patina of being legitimate political discourse.

(And for anyone who will "but but but" that political enemies are being unfairly branded as racist for holding opinions against the core orthodoxy...can we agree that dismissing or mocking anyone saying they don't deserve to be murdered because of their race is socially unacceptable? If not...you may need to reassess how you define yourself.)
 

Hyde Park Factor

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I mean in 2005, Jay Payton was just a general hard-ass and miserable in the clubhouse over PT, and Tito basically left him in Chicago if I'm not mistaken while the rest of the team flew home until Theo traded him away. It probably doesn't even rise to the disrespect at least a handful of players must feel due to Brazier's actions.
Didn't Payton force that by flipping out on Tito in the dugout during a game?
 

Hee Sox Choi

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I'm beginning to see why Mookie didn't want to sign here, goes to LA and then inks a long-term deal. Going to the
White House was gross; not kneeling with JBJ, etc. With the racist history of the Red Sox, they can't just let this go. Brasier needs to be kicked to the curb, he let his teammates down. Timing??? Fuck him, the video is still in his likes.

I watched a couple minutes of it, these two assholes argue that whites are being shot 2:1 but don't mention that blacks are 13% of the population. They say Jacob Blake "pulled out a knife" which from what I've read in the police report, isn't true. They found a knife on the floor of the car.

Anyway, fuck Ryan Brasier. Cut his ass, this team cannot afford to continually ignore their African-American players' concerns.
 
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OCST

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From a chemistry standpoint alone, he probably needs to go. Holding views on whether a shooting is justified or not is one thing, being this crass about someone who said something as profound and emotional as Doc, in the very city Doc represented well, is another.

Thank God social media didn’t exist in 2004.
Unfortunately, his sentiment is probably shared by many in that clubhouse - or, while they might not go that far, they're not particularly troubled by it either. Which is one of several reasons why I'm just not that interested in following the Sox anymore, especially in this plague short-season or whatever you want to call this thing.

One of many things about the 2004-era Sox that brought sheer joy was watching Sully from Braintree and Tony from Saugus jumping up and down in the stands at Fenway waving Dominican flags.

You had Nixon, Timlin, Wakefield, and Varitek, conservative white men, and Ramirez, Martinez, and Ortiz, Dominicans, and it was evident that they were a team, with mutual respect and affection.

Now it's the proverbial 25 cabs, and political division is a big reason why, it seems.

I posted elsewhere that there's NFW the team doesn't kneel if Papi is in that locker room.

The issue is that in the Trump era, political discourse on the right has become so grotesque and so offensive, that duplicating it can cross lines.

Advocating for tax cuts, wars even is within normal discourse. But what if Brasier, had done a video mocking the disabled reporter as Trump did? Is that political speech because the President did it? What If he talked about "grabbing them by the pussy."

We should not be punishing people for political views, but nor should we be treating cruelty and racism as legitimate political views just because they come from a politician.
This.
 

BroodsSexton

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I went and looked for the tweet—which as others have pointed out—is still in his “likes.” It’s pretty bad stuff. Stupid, racist propaganda. I honestly don’t understand how anyone functions in this world without recognizing the bullshit on display there.

I’m so tired of this stuff. All of it. The racism. The ignorance. The media outrage. The fact that I now have to evaluate this guy as a dumb, knuckleheaded bigot (and not just pretend he’s an owl and laugh at that). I can’t imagine what it feels like to be Black and dealing with this stuff. I mean, I can imagine, but I can’t really. I really can’t imagine what it must be like going to work with him every day in a team atmosphere.

I honestly don’t know the solution. How do you educate someone who “likes” this stuff? Whose responsibility is it? What’s a baseball team supposed to do? Punch Nazis in the face. Fire him. It sure as hell isn’t going to affect the product on the field very much. Might as well do the right thing and disassociate.

And if there’s no malice, why can I still find that video on his profile? Surely he knows.
 

wiffleballhero

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In the simulacrum
and it was evident that they were a team, with mutual respect and affection.
It is just baseball and all, but it is maybe noteworthy that the lack of common humanity among us, the right wing brain rot and racist norming now is so severe that your contrasting example was a team with Curt Schilling on it.

What blows me away about this is the absolute lack of empathy and the fact that it marks a sense community that Brazier identifies with and finds comity within. The Red Sox can probably absorb the half hour of bigots complaining about submitting to "cancel culture" and just move on.
 

joe dokes

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I just wish all the brave bigots behind keyboards would just once have to face the targets their ignorance -- and not for a physical beating.

I would like to see Doc Rivers look Brasier in the eye, ask "What's so funny about what I said," and make Brasier give him an answer.
Exactly right.
Docs twice his age and could probably snap brasier's pitching arm in half. But he wouldn't do that.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Different political views are one thing but it takes a special kind of asshole to mock someone else’s pain like that. I see no reason why the Sox should tolerate his presence on this team in 2020 with everything else gong on. What a massive piece of shit.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I watched a couple minutes of it, these two assholes argue that whites are being shot 2:1 but don't mention that blacks are 13% of the population. They say Jacob Blake "pulled out a knife" which from what I've read in the police report, isn't true. They found a knife on the floor of the car.
Yeah, those two asshats are from the Candice Owens side of the tracks, basically a pair of Uncle... Ruckuses who subscribe to this idea that life is great for blacks in this country as long as you act white and suck up to white authority and that all the ones who don't are really ruining things for everyone. They are among the faces that white conservatives trot out during these controversies to "prove" they aren't racist, because look at what these black folks who agree with us are saying! Them, Owens, Terrence K Williams, and even the great Herschel Walker (who is publicly stumping for Trump) can all go fuck off.

So can Brasier for not only being a shitty pitcher that the league has for the most part figured out but also for conduct detrimental to team unity. They don't need him, so just show him the door.
 

threecy

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Thank God social media didn’t exist in 2004.
Except it did...the key differences likely being that 1) people weren't posting/re-posting from their bathrooms on their phone and 2) not as many people were scouring social media in search of something to be outraged at.

Unfortunately the archives appear to be gone, but I don't recall this amount of outrage when a certain star player accused of domestic assault, which presumably is a much worse action than an idiotic retweet.
 

OCST

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It is just baseball and all, but it is maybe noteworthy that the lack of common humanity among us, the right wing brain rot and racist norming now is so severe that your contrasting example was a team with Curt Schilling on it.
two things:

-Schilling was very conservative even then, but had not morphed into the InfoWars/OANN freak;

-It wasn't his team. You got the sense he was respected but not loved and he was not looked on as a leader.

But yes, your general point, I agree.
 

edoug

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Different political views are one thing but it takes a special kind of asshole to mock someone else’s pain like that. I see no reason why the Sox should tolerate his presence on this team in 2020 with everything else gong on. What a massive piece of shit.
I've been trying to express my feelings and it has been hard to find the right words. These are them.
 

drbretto

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Except it did...the key differences likely being that 1) people weren't posting/re-posting from their bathrooms on their phone and 2) not as many people were scouring social media in search of something to be outraged at.

Unfortunately the archives appear to be gone, but I don't recall this amount of outrage when a certain star player accused of domestic assault, which presumably is a much worse action than an idiotic retweet.
You honestly believe that people are just "searching" for outrage here? Have you noticed any, say, racial tension in the population lately?
 

Average Reds

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Unfortunately the archives appear to be gone, but I don't recall this amount of outrage when a certain star player accused of domestic assault, which presumably is a much worse action than an idiotic retweet.
This is rich coming from a man who spent years on this site defending the actions of a serial rapist.

Your intellectual dishonesty knows no bounds.
 

BigSoxFan

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I can’t even imagine what it’s like being an African-American going through and incredibly painful and emotional time and then seeing yourself and your movement being mocked by some low class ignorant piece of trash like Brasier.

He needs to go. If another team wants to give him another shot, that’s their choice.

But this piece of trash needs to go.
 

Hyde Park Factor

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Except it did...the key differences likely being that 1) people weren't posting/re-posting from their bathrooms on their phone and 2) not as many people were scouring social media in search of something to be outraged at.

Unfortunately the archives appear to be gone, but I don't recall this amount of outrage when a certain star player accused of domestic assault, which presumably is a much worse action than an idiotic retweet.
I think you're right, and I'm glad to see how this board and its members have evolved. The membership here has (by and large!) listened to the minority members when we've spoken up: women, gays, lesbians, trans, left, right, foreign, immigrant... (apologies if I've botched any of those terms!)

What I'm saying is, I don't think it's fair to say that the relative lack of outrage all those years ago was because people weren't concerned or didn't care. A lack of understanding and empathy seems more likely, and when faced with those realities this band of old white guys pounding keyboards in their mothers basements responded very well indeed.

I have found more support than derision here, and I think others would agree that this board and its members have come a long way on issues like this.
 

InsideTheParker

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I just wish all the brave bigots behind keyboards would just once have to face the targets their ignorance -- and not for a physical beating.

I would like to see Doc Rivers look Brasier in the eye, ask "What's so funny about what I said," and make Brasier give him an answer.
Of course I haven't seen whatever it is that Brasier retweeted, and last night I kept wondering how on earth anyone could think anything about Rivers' impassioned remarks could be funny. I would never click on the thing, if I knew where it was, but what was the gist of the parody? Or is parody too nice a word for it? (Edit: I see now that @BroodsSexton has seen it. Can you give the general outline of what it is?)
 

Rovin Romine

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Different political views are one thing but it takes a special kind of asshole to mock someone else’s pain like that. I see no reason why the Sox should tolerate his presence on this team in 2020 with everything else gong on. What a massive piece of shit.
This is pretty much where I am. His twitter feed has a bunch of recent retweets of Trump propaganda.

I will be rooting for him to be off the team immediately, and regardless, to spectacularly fail in everything he does.
 

chawson

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I'm beginning to see why Mookie didn't want to sign here, goes to LA and then inks a long-term deal. Going to the
White House was gross; not kneeling with JBJ, etc. With the racist history of the Red Sox, they can't just let this go. Brasier needs to be kicked to the curb, he let his teammates down. Timing??? Fuck him, the video is still in his likes.

Anyway, fuck Ryan Brasier. Cut his ass, this team cannot afford to continually ignore their African-American players’ concerns.
I went and looked for the tweet—which as others have pointed out—is still in his “likes.” It’s pretty bad stuff. Stupid, racist propaganda. I honestly don’t understand how anyone functions in this world without recognizing the bullshit on display there.

I’m so tired of this stuff. All of it. The racism. The ignorance. The media outrage. The fact that I now have to evaluate this guy as a dumb, knuckleheaded bigot (and not just pretend he’s an owl and laugh at that). I can’t imagine what it feels like to be Black and dealing with this stuff. I mean, I can imagine, but I can’t really. I really can’t imagine what it must be like going to work with him every day in a team atmosphere.

I honestly don’t know the solution. How do you educate someone who “likes” this stuff? Whose responsibility is it? What’s a baseball team supposed to do? Punch Nazis in the face. Fire him. It sure as hell isn’t going to affect the product on the field very much. Might as well do the right thing and disassociate.

And if there’s no malice, why can I still find that video on his profile? Surely he knows.
I think it’s fair to infer that this factor influenced Mookie’s decision whether to stay. I would also bet that seeing Boston fans and media seize every perceivable reason to drag David Price, a Black player making superstar money who battled injuries yet played well when he was healthy, helped him arrive at his decision too.

This is far bigger than the Red Sox, but the team still has a lot of work to do here. That may be a tall order with this fan base and media and general roster building concerns, but I think it’s necessary to make structural changes. We’re still in the era of the first non-racist ownership group in team history, and the team’s brand has all sorts of folksy regionalist cultural distinctions designed to appeal to generational New Englanders. We may want to think a little harder about the cost of that, and who’s excluded. Hoping that the one or two annual Black players on our team play well enough to “earn their money” and keep their heads down so as not to attract scrutiny or derision from a largely white and culturally segregated fan base does not seem to have meaningfully changed the culture.

I wonder if Cora is re-installed in 2021 or if it may be worth interviewing Hensley Meulens, Will Venable or Willie McGee.
 

InsideTheParker

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I would also bet that seeing Boston fans and media seize every perceivable reason to drag David Price, a Black player making superstar money
I disliked David Price ever since he and his then girlfriend used social media to dump on David Ortiz. You can believe it or not, but my dislike of him had zero to do with race, and I think you're pushing it.