Rugby World Cup 2019

scottyno

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Japan looked awesome and a very worthy Quarter Finalist. Thank goodness the match was played.

Now, more NBC Sports complaints - 2 of the QFs (Ireland v. New Zealand, Wales v. France) are PPV only, and they are now gouging us at $35/match. If I knew what matches will be free to air, it would be really helpful in terms of whether to buy into the package now, especially with an option to get the rest of the tournament plus 6 Nations and EPCR for $145. Probably still better off paying for the one-off on Ireland match, then waiting to see how much of 6 Nations might end up free over the air, but I may make a foolish decision.
You can get all the non world cup stuff for $80 for the season at any time, so impulse buying it all now only saves you $5 even if you pay the $35 for 2 matches, pretty sure they wouldn't put the semis or the final on gold only. (Or if you have another friend who also likes rugby you can probably get away with sharing an account and split the cost)
 

HoyaSoxa

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PPV only as in not even on NBC gold or whatever it’s called?
Two QFs are on NBC Gold package only. If you have already paid for the full package, you would have them. If not, you are now paying $35/match.

You can get all the non world cup stuff for $80 for the season at any time, so impulse buying it all now only saves you $5 even if you pay the $35 for 2 matches, pretty sure they wouldn't put the semis or the final on gold only. (Or if you have another friend who also likes rugby you can probably get away with sharing an account and split the cost)
This is clearly the right approach, especially given there is no way I am going to watch all of the QFs. I just don't know why they wouldn't price the rest of the RWC + Six Nations at around $100, to give it some value.
 

HoyaSoxa

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US TV situation update: my programming guide now shows 3/4 matches will be live on NBC Sports Network, and Ireland v. New Zealand will be shown at 2:30 pm ET Saturday. Assuming I can make it to Saturday afternoon without spoiling the result for myself, I am getting pretty excited for this lineup of matches now.
 

HoyaSoxa

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US TV situation update: my programming guide now shows 3/4 matches will be live on NBC Sports Network, and Ireland v. New Zealand will be shown at 2:30 pm ET Saturday. Assuming I can make it to Saturday afternoon without spoiling the result for myself, I am getting pretty excited for this lineup of matches now.

Update: Blergh

Not only did Ireland completely no-show (the match was over when Mo'unga kept Sexton's kick to touch in play at 10-0), NBC Sports inexplicably had the England-Australia match in the slot where the Comcast guide had told me to expect Ireland-New Zealand, so rather than risk spoiling the result by searching for another way to watch, I ponied up the $35 to watch that abomination on tape via NBC Sports Gold.

I don't know where Ireland go from here, but I do think they need to start moving on from their dependency on Sexton. As much as he claims to want to be rugby's Tom Brady, and as great as he has been at his best, there is no way he will be leading Ireland past the QF in 2023. There are some promising younger backs from this squad (Carbery, Larmour, Stockdale, Ringrose) who will need to become stars, but the pack has real problems with age, with only James Ryan under 25, and Furlong seeming like the only decent bet to still be a part of the next world cup set-up among the front row.
 

Bellhorn

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I have a feeling this will be similar to 1995 (the first RWC I ever watched) for England, where "woohoo, we beat Australia, we rock!" turned into "oh shit..." after about five minutes of Jonah Lomu and co.
 

Stanley Steamer

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I have a feeling this will be similar to 1995 (the first RWC I ever watched) for England, where "woohoo, we beat Australia, we rock!" turned into "oh shit..." after about five minutes of Jonah Lomu and co.
I agree, without knowing much about rugby. But there's a reason why they play the games.
I watched the Wales v France match, the only QF I saw, what with terrible TV times, and was pleased to see such a close one, a cool finish. Most of the results have been routs. I'm pretty sure Wales would get utterly decimated by NZ, but I haven't seen England play yet.
I like being able to see the game played at a high level, even as I try to figure out the rules and strategy. It's a special sport for sure.
 

Spacemans Bong

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Nah, England-New Zealand will be a good game. Both semifinals will be, actually, despite Wales completely being written off after their shitshow vs France.

Nigel Owens being referee for England-NZ is a bad sign for England. For all his fame as the openly gay bantersaurus referee who does Emirates Airline commercials and such, he's kind of an overrated referee. A real show pony who doesn't sweat the details in the breakdown. This is going to let New Zealand disrupt all the ball and relieve the pressure England's pack could put on them. Not that NZ can't do the same to England - they're picking loads of lineout jumpers (putting Scott Barrett at 6 and moving Ardie Savea to 7, in addition to Retallick, Whitelock and Read) in the 23 to capitalise on England's one real weakness: George Kruis and Maro Itoje are really their only good lineout jumpers in the squad.

Both games are going to be total fistfights. Wales-SA will be like watching Jake LaMotta (Wales) take hit after hit. They're going to defend to within an inch of their lives on that one.
 

SydneySox

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SydneySox must be delighted with how the Wallabies committed hara kiri like that. Suicidal rugby as Larry Dallaglio put it.
It was the best outcome ever. Game's tearing itself apart publicly. I don't hate rugby (though it's a pretty shit sport that benefits from a few rule changes that make it rugby league) I just hate the institution of the wallabies. Everything that's wrong with the desperate monarchist silvertails.
 

Tokyo Sox

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According to my English colleague, who knows a lot more about these things than I do, England could have beaten any and all comers the way they played vs NZ. "As fine a performance as I've seen." Pretty shocking result and now I'm all in for S'Africa because my many English colleagues will be just insufferable if they win the whole thing.

I went to Wales/RSA last weekend, fantastic match with Wales just not quite being able to get there in the end. The South Africa defense has been amazing the last two matches, though it was vs Japan & Wales and I assume England will present a tougher test. But they've been incredibly, impressively stingy from what I can tell with my amateur spectator eyes.

Also, I'm fairly sure this guy Faf de Klerk is literally insane.faf.jpg
 

Spacemans Bong

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I love Barnes' face there. "Oh my!"

England were fuckin' great on Saturday, they really were. They did so much right tactically it's untrue. Didn't fall for the dummy runners, used their offloads, attacked NZ's lineout rather than the other way around. Itoje and Underhill were phenomenal, and Tom Curry wasn't far behind. They made Kieran Read look old and way past his prime, Ardie Savea did very little except fall over for a try, and they made the ABs do something very rare, which is panic and substitute Sam Cane for Scott Barrett. Beauden Barrett looked like an idiot trying to run things out of his 22 -- the ABs didn't just get outfought, they got outthought and that's very rare. It's the best England performance anywhere since 2003.

Can they lose to SA? Yeah, sure. I think far too many people (noticeably not the bookies -- England are only favoured by 5) just expect that to be the way England play now. It's not impossible that was their peak, and SA have huge, bastard forwards, will probably kick better than NZ did, and are certainly not going to do dumb shit like try and run it out of their 22 (even with a fit Cheslin Kolbe). A lot of people decided Wales are shit because they struggled to beat France, and therefore SA are also shit, without remembering that Wales are just bastards to beat. They don't quit, and Alun Wyn Jones's chutzpah in taking the scrum rather than the easy three and getting a try out of it was the on-field tactical decision of the tournament. Huge, brass balls for doing so.
 

Spacemans Bong

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It was the best outcome ever. Game's tearing itself apart publicly. I don't hate rugby (though it's a pretty shit sport that benefits from a few rule changes that make it rugby league) I just hate the institution of the wallabies. Everything that's wrong with the desperate monarchist silvertails.
I have immense respect for the Wallabies: two titles, four finals, and something like six out of nine semifinals is a pretty good record for a country where rugby union is the fourth most popular sport. It helps the vagaries of the GPS and its relation to the Australian class system don't bother me in the way half of England's squad going to public schools does. And John Eales is a republican.

But their business strategy seems rely on being the USFL to the NRL's NFL, and it's bizarre and weird and lazy.
 

jercra

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I love Barnes' face there. "Oh my!"

England were fuckin' great on Saturday, they really were. They did so much right tactically it's untrue. Didn't fall for the dummy runners, used their offloads, attacked NZ's lineout rather than the other way around. Itoje and Underhill were phenomenal, and Tom Curry wasn't far behind. They made Kieran Read look old and way past his prime, Ardie Savea did very little except fall over for a try, and they made the ABs do something very rare, which is panic and substitute Sam Cane for Scott Barrett. Beauden Barrett looked like an idiot trying to run things out of his 22 -- the ABs didn't just get outfought, they got outthought and that's very rare. It's the best England performance anywhere since 2003.

Can they lose to SA? Yeah, sure. I think far too many people (noticeably not the bookies -- England are only favoured by 5) just expect that to be the way England play now. It's not impossible that was their peak, and SA have huge, bastard forwards, will probably kick better than NZ did, and are certainly not going to do dumb shit like try and run it out of their 22 (even with a fit Cheslin Kolbe). A lot of people decided Wales are shit because they struggled to beat France, and therefore SA are also shit, without remembering that Wales are just bastards to beat. They don't quit, and Alun Wyn Jones's chutzpah in taking the scrum rather than the easy three and getting a try out of it was the on-field tactical decision of the tournament. Huge, brass balls for doing so.
Bear in mind that I've only been watching rugby for a about a decade and as an American with English teachers about the game. England looks amazing on defense to me but still sloppy with the ball on offense. For those who know the game better, is that going to be a bigger struggle against SA than they've faced? And does England have the speed to stop the SA kicking game (have they played a great kicking team yet) and do they have the size to handle SA's maul? Sadly, after watching every televised match I'll be somewhere with a DVR for the finals so won't be able to watch.
 

Spacemans Bong

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Bear in mind that I've only been watching rugby for a about a decade and as an American with English teachers about the game. England looks amazing on defense to me but still sloppy with the ball on offense. For those who know the game better, is that going to be a bigger struggle against SA than they've faced? And does England have the speed to stop the SA kicking game (have they played a great kicking team yet) and do they have the size to handle SA's maul? Sadly, after watching every televised match I'll be somewhere with a DVR for the finals so won't be able to watch.
These are all legit questions. A lot depends on how well England executes — they were just perfect last Saturday. If they step back a bit, SA can definitely win this game.

I expect the Bokke to try and play it tight and I think Eddie will plan for England to be fairly expansive to try and put them under the cosh early and force them out of that game plan.
 

coremiller

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Surprised we don't have a thread for the 2023 World Cup. I'm as casual a rugby fan as they come but I watched the Ireland-NZ QF yesterday and that was one of the most compelling sporting events I've watched in a long time. The 37-phase conclusion was excruciating. I was exhausted just watching it, I can only imagine how the players felt.

I don't know where Ireland go from here, but I do think they need to start moving on from their dependency on Sexton. As much as he claims to want to be rugby's Tom Brady, and as great as he has been at his best, there is no way he will be leading Ireland past the QF in 2023.
Unfortunately for the Irish, this turned out to be prescient.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I’ve watched a couple of the games. Wales/Argentina also was very exciting until that untimely Pick 6, I mean 5, near the end. I am still trying to figure out rules and strategy, but it’s a fun watch anyway.
 

fiskful of dollars

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Can't believe IRFC are out. Thought Sexton would cap his career and the best Irish team of my lifetime with a WC title. This feels a little bit like the Bruins loss last spring. Slightly less gutting since I couldn't watch it live but still...
 
The tournament format is horrible. So, so much meaningless rugby, and then three of the top five teams in the world rankings somehow wound up paired in the same group from which only two teams could advance. (They seeded the tournament WAY too early - like, years too early.) The whole thing is designed around generating an exciting knockout stage - starting five weeks into the event - with the best teams in the world...and yet somehow the quarterfinal pairings have been 1 v 4, 2 v 3, 6 v 10 and 7 v 8 in the world rankings, instead of something designed to save the best teams for the semifinals and finals. Even when you get a match like Ireland v New Zealand yesterday, the manifest unfairness of the competition makes it hard for me to care.

I'm the sort of casual fan who ought to be drawn into a rugby World Cup - I watch a fair amount of the Six Nations tournament every year and would love to buy into another big international event, but this isn't it. I've seen it suggested that there should be a second-tier "plate" tournament for the best eight teams that don't escape their groups that runs alongside the quarterfinals/semifinals/final, but I'd go even further and split the tournament in two from the start. Put the best 10 teams in two five-team groups and have them play round-robin against each other, and put the next 10 teams in two other five-team groups, and then work toward a knockout structure where the best teams in the top tier get byes into the quarterfinals, the worst teams in the top tier are eliminated, and the middle teams in the top tier have to play the better teams from the bottom tier in the first round of knockout matches. That would be plenty watchable and give the lower-tier teams some real competition against one another, instead of giving us Ireland 82-8 over Romania and France 96-0 over Namibia and England 71-0 over Chile and New Zealand 73-0 over Uruguay.
 

Stanley Steamer

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Surprised we don't have a thread for the 2023 World Cup. I'm as casual a rugby fan as they come but I watched the Ireland-NZ QF yesterday and that was one of the most compelling sporting events I've watched in a long time. The 37-phase conclusion was excruciating. I was exhausted just watching it, I can only imagine how the players felt.

I agree, and went looking for this thread last night. Then, two more outstanding matches today, capped by South Africa nipping the hosts by a single point. There is so much I don't understand about rugby, but I do know what a compelling sporting event is, and I witnessed a few this weekend.
 

HoyaSoxa

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Unfortunately for the Irish, this turned out to be prescient.
I was so wrong about the particulars and yet...

The tournament format is terrible, and Ireland will have to live with the absurd "never made it past quarterfinals" albatross around them for at least 4 more years, but they had their chances against New Zealand and could not get it done, and they were going to have a beat a great team or two to win a World Cup no matter what. Getting held up over the try line has to be one of the most devastating possible outcomes in sport..
 
I've seen it suggested that there should be a second-tier "plate" tournament for the best eight teams that don't escape their groups that runs alongside the quarterfinals/semifinals/final, but I'd go even further and split the tournament in two from the start. Put the best 10 teams in two five-team groups and have them play round-robin against each other, and put the next 10 teams in two other five-team groups, and then work toward a knockout structure where the best teams in the top tier get byes into the quarterfinals, the worst teams in the top tier are eliminated, and the middle teams in the top tier have to play the better teams from the bottom tier in the first round of knockout matches. That would be plenty watchable and give the lower-tier teams some real competition against one another, instead of giving us Ireland 82-8 over Romania and France 96-0 over Namibia and England 71-0 over Chile and New Zealand 73-0 over Uruguay.
By the way, I've just remembered/realized what sport runs its World Championships (and the Olympics) more or less like the bolded: women's ice hockey. That's another sport with an even clearer top tier of teams and a bunch of second-tier teams, and this two-track format is perfectly fit for purpose; that's exactly what world rugby needs.
 

HoyaSoxa

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I really like that idea - I wonder if anyone at World Rugby is thinking that boldly about restructuring the event? I know they are planning to add 4 more teams and going to 6 groups in 2027, and I have heard the goal is 32 teams, which seems a long ways off. If you think Namibia and Romania are bad, wait until you see Zimbabwe and Germany against the top teams.
 

dirtynine

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Semi #1 today - 3pm ET, ARG v NZ. I don’t know enough about rugby to analyze the matchup (beyond knowing NZ has expectations, and Argentina perhaps is playing with house money a bit?)
 

fiskful of dollars

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My swim coach is a NZ native. He has been insufferable (in a super cool, understated NZ way - which makes it worse, actually) since the IRFC - All Blacks QF. I smugly predicted zero Southern Hemisphere teams in the final. I thought Ireland v. England. I may have to fire him. He does make fun of any American trying to claim they "played" rugby which irritates me naturally but also hurts a bit because it's kinda true.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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Something else that got lost by not talking about RWC a little earlier is that Australia placed third in a group they had no business failing to qualify in (Wales is tough, but Fiji, Georgia, and Portugal?). They’re good for RWC 2027, but it really does feel like the slow death of the sport in a land split between League and AFL.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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Ireland should have won this one.
On evidence, it’s probably time to consider that there’s something about Northern Hemisphere teams that isn’t built for this tournament. England 2003 is the only NH champion, and there’s an argument that France may be the more successful NH team in these. Wales has had some great teams and has never as much as seen a final (I can hear the Welsh growling at me in 2011). The 2015 QFs had four North-South matches, including Ireland-Argentina, and the Northern sides lost all four. Almost forty years in, the evidence says they’re built different in the South.
 

fiskful of dollars

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On evidence, it’s probably time to consider that there’s something about Northern Hemisphere teams that isn’t built for this tournament. England 2003 is the only NH champion, and there’s an argument that France may be the more successful NH team in these. Wales has had some great teams and has never as much as seen a final (I can hear the Welsh growling at me in 2011). The 2015 QFs had four North-South matches, including Ireland-Argentina, and the Northern sides lost all four. Almost forty years in, the evidence says they’re built different in the South.
Absolutely there is something to the Southern Hemisphere theory. The data back that up.

Fun fact: the commentator on Peacock, Dan Lyle and I played together for the Washington rugby football club ( he was our #8) before he joined the US Eagles. He had played tight end at VMI before he started playing rugby. We used to love to get those college football players on the rugby pitch. They always thought they could pick up the game easily, but their rugby IQ was so bad that they would never last for long. I tried to tackle him once in the open field, and he hurdled me at full speed. I’m 5’11”. It’s probably just as well, he was probably about 230 and I weighed about 165 at the time. I was a fullback (#15).