Round 2 Celtics vs. Wizards

Eddie Jurak

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I think they need to start Marcus. The only halves they have started and not played like complete trash were started by Marcus.

It messes up the bench rotations, sure, but Brad was able to manage that problem in the second halves of games 1 and 2. And I think they need the defense on Wall and Beal to open games.

Jaylen I don't think is ready to start, but I'd like to see him have a bigger role off the bench.
 

smastroyin

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I think the most likely thing is the C's winning in 7, with the home team winning all 7 games, and with at least one of the games in DC being a total shellacking that gets us worried.
Well there's one prediction right. Maybe I should have said "puts us on tilt."

Hopefully I'm right about the winning part too. Although I have to say, I would also really enjoy watching LeBron Hulk smash the wizards.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Well there's one prediction right. Maybe I should have said "puts us on tilt."

Hopefully I'm right about the winning part too. Although I have to say, I would also really enjoy watching LeBron Hulk smash the wizards.
You shut your mouth. We're only a James-Durant-Curry rolled ankle trifecta away from winning the title.

Anything is possible!!!1!
 

RedOctober3829

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They can not possibly start Gerald Green again. If he's not shooting well, he adds nothing to the table. As I've said since before the series started, they need to start Marcus Smart. Brad has to play him to help defensively and avoid another disater start.

Everyone is probably sick of me saying this, but the effort level has not been there in the first quarter of all but 2 playoff games. How many times does it have to happen for it not to be a coaching issue? I love Brad and defend him at every level from idiots who say otherwise but if the team isn't ready to go Brad has to do something in order to prevent it from being a trend(which is probably too late now for that). They have to find a way to come out more motivated and a bigger energy/effort level than they've brought this series and 4 of 6 with Chicago. I believe this happens because they start off cold shooting the ball and their energy level collectively drops and they go into a funk. They go into a shell of one or two passes and a quick shot on offense and the lack of energy translates to no rebounding and poor defense. Brad has to keep hammering into them that they can't be looking to hit home runs. As he says, move the ball on offense, hit singles, and keep fighting. In those 2 games in Chicago, they started off hot and their energy level was noticeably higher on both ends of the floor. More players were fighting for loose balls, getting on the glass, and playing much better team defense.

On the positive side, can we really expect the first-half combination of Washington shooting 60/80 and Celtics playing like a dumpster fire again? I sure as hell hope not.
 

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To me, the biggest difference btw games 1/2 and game 3, was the effect of the home crowd. Last night, as Washington hit shot after shot, the crowd responses grew louder and louder, naturally. THAt is something that affects all, but I think it makes a huge difference to the bench players. When Bogdanovic hit that fist outrageously deep 3 as the shot clock expired, the crowd went predictably nuts. From that point forward, not only Bog, but the whole Wizard team could not miss. THat's where the 22-0 run happened. That is the run that decided the game.

When you are playing at home, you can afford to let the opponents get ahead, because the crowd will help you make a run. When you are away, you don't get that juice.

Brad and the Celts have to make sure the Wizards don't get on that sort of run. Maybe Smart in the starting lineup would do it. I don't know. But they need to find something.

Any word on Oubre?
 

Minneapolis Millers

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They can not possibly start Gerald Green again. If he's not shooting well, he adds nothing to the table. As I've said since before the series started, they need to start Marcus Smart. Brad has to play him to help defensively and avoid another disater start.

Everyone is probably sick of me saying this, but the effort level has not been there in the first quarter of all but 2 playoff games. How many times does it have to happen for it not to be a coaching issue? ...
Well, Stevens could start Smart and Rozier and full court press them right from the start, then bring IT off the bench early. Or is that going too far...??
 

joe dokes

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They can not possibly start Gerald Green again. If he's not shooting well, he adds nothing to the table. As I've said since before the series started, they need to start Marcus Smart. Brad has to play him to help defensively and avoid another disaster start.

One thing about Marcus we know is that he doesn't let bad shooting affect his overall effort.

EDIT: That reads as snark. It isn't. His defense never rests.

I do like the idea of starting Rozier over Green. He doesn't seem overwhelmed by the moment and continues to do other things well even if his shot isn't falling. And I think that starting off tight in a road playoff game is much more likely to affect offense than defense.
I would hate to see an over-amped Starting Smart pick up 2 quick fouls.
 

Saints Rest

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One thing about Marcus we know is that he doesn't let bad shooting affect his overall effort.

EDIT: That reads as snark. It isn't. His defense never rests.

I do like the idea of starting Rozier over Green. He doesn't seem overwhelmed by the moment and continues to do other things well even if his shot isn't falling. And I think that starting off tight in a road playoff game is much more likely to affect offense than defense.
I would hate to see an over-amped Starting Smart pick up 2 quick fouls.
Can they afford to start three guys under 6'-2"?
 

TheoShmeo

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Glenn Ordway says IT is playing with a broken jaw.
This probably deserves its own thread.

My first reaction is that IT is one tough son of a bitch.

My second is that I'm pissed that the Wizards (and any other opponents) know this. There's a method to Bill Belichick's madness....
 

PC Drunken Friar

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This probably deserves its own thread.

My first reaction is that IT is one tough son of a bitch.

My second is that I'm pissed that the Wizards (and any other opponents) know this. There's a method to Bill Belichick's madness....
Had to be when he hit his chin on the floor in game 2, right?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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On the positive side, can we really expect the first-half combination of Washington shooting 60/80 and Celtics playing like a dumpster fire again? I sure as hell hope not.
Maybe the issue isn't effort but the fact that the starting five for the Wiz is markedly better than the starting five for the Cs?

I know people like to talk about effort. Even players and coaches like to talk about effort (after all, what are they going to say, they suck?). But it's amazing to me how "effort" is usually correlated to points ahead or behind.

It's not effort when Porter or Wall takes IT4 into the post and hits a cutting Gortat because Al is flatfooted from trying to cheat over to help IT4. It's not effort when people aren't in position to box out and the Wiz get seven offensive rebounds because they are scrambling on rotations or because AB is trying to box out Morris. Etc.

If the series were just between the starting five of the two teams and rest wasn't an issue, how many games do you think the Cs would win?
 

RedOctober3829

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Maybe the issue isn't effort but the fact that the starting five for the Wiz is markedly better than the starting five for the Cs?

I know people like to talk about effort. Even players and coaches like to talk about effort (after all, what are they going to say, they suck?). But it's amazing to me how "effort" is usually correlated to points ahead or behind.

It's not effort when Porter or Wall takes IT4 into the post and hits a cutting Gortat because Al is flatfooted from trying to cheat over to help IT4. It's not effort when people aren't in position to box out and the Wiz get seven offensive rebounds because they are scrambling on rotations or because AB is trying to box out Morris. Etc.

If the series were just between the starting five of the two teams and rest wasn't an issue, how many games do you think the Cs would win?
A lot of it is in fact effort. How do you think they all of a sudden closed the rebounding gap against Chicago? It takes a certain mindset to be a good rebounding team and when they decide they want to put the effort into rebounding they do a decent job of it. The defensive rotations falter when multiple players aren't doing their job. Being good at defense takes all 5 guys working together and that hasn't been the case. Yes, the Wizards took advantage of the IT matchup and good on them for doing so. But that doesn't explain the open 3 point shooters or players getting beat 1-on-1 off the dribble against someone other than Wall who is very tough to stop.

The Wizards starting 5 is good, but they aren't 14-20 points better than the Celtics' 5.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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A lot of it is in fact effort. How do you think they all of a sudden closed the rebounding gap against Chicago? It takes a certain mindset to be a good rebounding team and when they decide they want to put the effort into rebounding they do a decent job of it. The defensive rotations falter when multiple players aren't doing their job. Being good at defense takes all 5 guys working together and that hasn't been the case. Yes, the Wizards took advantage of the IT matchup and good on them for doing so. But that doesn't explain the open 3 point shooters or players getting beat 1-on-1 off the dribble against someone other than Wall who is very tough to stop.

The Wizards starting 5 is good, but they aren't 14-20 points better than the Celtics' 5.
Just to be clear, you think that for some reason, an entire team - who we have lauded this past year for playing hard almost every night - all of sudden decide that they are not going to play hard in the most important games of the year? Because if I read you correctly, you're not saying one person didn't play hard but the entire starting lineup and perhaps most of the bench.

I'm going to have to disagree with you.

A good portion of the Cs rebounding problems went away when Rondo stopped breaking down the Cs defense and when the Bulls started going to ISO ball, which is easier for players to be in position to rebound.

Look, athletes of all stripes do ridiculous things to try to be "on" every time they go out to play. They develop elaborate rituals to try to make sure they can capture their best energy and best ability when it counts (look at my namesake; look at Ray Allen). And though they schedule pretty much every minute of every day to figure out how to be the best they can be when they hit the court, it's impossible to do that. That's why they have nights they are in the zone and nights they are not.

The Cs look to me that they play incredibly fucking hard every night. Smart plays incredibly hard. AB plays incredibly hard. IT4 might have a broken jaw and you think he's going to go out with a broken jaw and not play hard? Sometimes they have better results than others. But just because they aren't scoring or stopping their opponent, doesn't mean that they are playing hard.

One other thing. It may look like a team is playing harder when it's doing well, but it's probably just that a team is playing "free-er." When a team can't get stops or can't score, they start questioning - rightly - what the problem is and how to fix it. That questioning could mean a split second longer reaction time, which might make it look like they aren't playing very hard.

At any, rate this is my pet peeve so I'll just drop it here.
 

smastroyin

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I don't think the Wizards starting 5 is really that much better (30ish NRtg) over the long haul. I do think John Wall is playing at a near LeBron level that raises the water for the rest of the starting unit. Between that and the C's not really having a starter at the 4, then add in some horrible shooting on the part of the Celtics and I think the first quarters are easily explained without talking about effort.
 

teddykgb

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A lot of it is in fact effort. How do you think they all of a sudden closed the rebounding gap against Chicago? It takes a certain mindset to be a good rebounding team and when they decide they want to put the effort into rebounding they do a decent job of it. The defensive rotations falter when multiple players aren't doing their job. Being good at defense takes all 5 guys working together and that hasn't been the case. Yes, the Wizards took advantage of the IT matchup and good on them for doing so. But that doesn't explain the open 3 point shooters or players getting beat 1-on-1 off the dribble against someone other than Wall who is very tough to stop.

The Wizards starting 5 is good, but they aren't 14-20 points better than the Celtics' 5.
I'm with wade boggs chicken dinner on this one. Effort is a typically lazy explanation we turn to when things aren't going well. I'm sure everyone involved feels that if they had just focused a bit more or tried a bit harder outcomes would be different. But that doesn't mean that it was a lack of effort which led to the outcomes.

The Celtics run a high variance 3 point based offense. They take the same crap shots in all quarters and all situations. When the 3s are falling, it all looks wonderful. When they are bricking, players get gun shy and the shots look "bad" because they're often shots that conventional wisdom basketball says you shouldn't take, especially down by a bunch.
 

RedOctober3829

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Just to be clear, you think that for some reason, an entire team - who we have lauded this past year for playing hard almost every night - all of sudden decide that they are not going to play hard in the most important games of the year? Because if I read you correctly, you're not saying one person didn't play hard but the entire starting lineup and perhaps most of the bench.

I'm going to have to disagree with you.

A good portion of the Cs rebounding problems went away when Rondo stopped breaking down the Cs defense and when the Bulls started going to ISO ball, which is easier for players to be in position to rebound.

Look, athletes of all stripes do ridiculous things to try to be "on" every time they go out to play. They develop elaborate rituals to try to make sure they can capture their best energy and best ability when it counts (look at my namesake; look at Ray Allen). And though they schedule pretty much every minute of every day to figure out how to be the best they can be when they hit the court, it's impossible to do that. That's why they have nights they are in the zone and nights they are not.

The Cs look to me that they play incredibly fucking hard every night. Smart plays incredibly hard. AB plays incredibly hard. IT4 might have a broken jaw and you think he's going to go out with a broken jaw and not play hard? Sometimes they have better results than others. But just because they aren't scoring or stopping their opponent, doesn't mean that they are playing hard.

One other thing. It may look like a team is playing harder when it's doing well, but it's probably just that a team is playing "free-er." When a team can't get stops or can't score, they start questioning - rightly - what the problem is and how to fix it. That questioning could mean a split second longer reaction time, which might make it look like they aren't playing very hard.

At any, rate this is my pet peeve so I'll just drop it here.
We'll agree to disagree and I respect your position on this. As a whole, this team plays hard but they can go through stretches looking like they are going through the motions on both ends of the floor. Players are always on and off with shooting the basketball but should never be off with defense and rebounding. You can control how hard you play D and rebound. That's just a personal feeling on my part having been around the game and listening to different coaches' philosophies. The only thing I can think of for not sending anybody to the offensive boards is that it's Brad's plan is to stop their transition game at all costs.

I'm with wade boggs chicken dinner on this one. Effort is a typically lazy explanation we turn to when things aren't going well. I'm sure everyone involved feels that if they had just focused a bit more or tried a bit harder outcomes would be different. But that doesn't mean that it was a lack of effort which led to the outcomes.

The Celtics run a high variance 3 point based offense. They take the same crap shots in all quarters and all situations. When the 3s are falling, it all looks wonderful. When they are bricking, players get gun shy and the shots look "bad" because they're often shots that conventional wisdom basketball says you shouldn't take, especially down by a bunch.
When I question effort, it's on the defensive end and on the glass. Those are areas that teams can control.

On your shot selection comment, of course teams are going to have hot nights and cold nights. That's the way basketball is. I have learned to live with how many 3's they take and take the good with the bad. When I have a problem is when they just jack them up after 1 or 2 passes. They are at their best when moving the ball from side to side and getting open 3's in the flow of their offense. The coaching staff can't complain about getting open looks in the offense no matter where they are and they aren't falling.
 

drtooth

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Dont broken jaws get wired shut so they can heal properly? Is there minute level of broken-ness that does not require that?
Depends on whether he fractured his maxilla (upper) or mandible.(lower). If her fractured his maxilla when he got his tooth knocked (quite possible), the surgeon would likely go in and repair and fixate the maxilla (titanium screws and/or plates/wires). A small mandibular fracture without separation of the fracture doesn't necessarily need fixation (when he hit his chin in game 2). If this story is true, my leaning would Leforte ! fracture of his maxilla.
 

ugmo33

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We'll agree to disagree and I respect your position on this. As a whole, this team plays hard but they can go through stretches looking like they are going through the motions on both ends of the floor. Players are always on and off with shooting the basketball but should never be off with defense and rebounding. You can control how hard you play D and rebound. That's just a personal feeling on my part having been around the game and listening to different coaches' philosophies. The only thing I can think of for not sending anybody to the offensive boards is that it's Brad's plan is to stop their transition game at all costs.



When I question effort, it's on the defensive end and on the glass. Those are areas that teams can control.

On your shot selection comment, of course teams are going to have hot nights and cold nights. That's the way basketball is. I have learned to live with how many 3's they take and take the good with the bad. When I have a problem is when they just jack them up after 1 or 2 passes. They are at their best when moving the ball from side to side and getting open 3's in the flow of their offense. The coaching staff can't complain about getting open looks in the offense no matter where they are and they aren't falling.

Questioning these guys' effort doesnt make any sense to me. They are all extremely competitive individuals in the middle of the playoffs. They're in their third straight game of matching up against the same guys, battling for rebounds and loose balls. It especially doesnt make sense to blame Brad. The players should know how to get up for games at this point and I think the little motivational speeches at the beginning of games does very little.

What I saw last night was guys who were confused on D and scrambling because Brad was messing with new lineups. During the middle of the Wiz run in the 1st Q, Jaylen looked overwhelmed, Rozier looked overeager, and Smart was trying to be the offense. It was awful. They needed a vet out there to run the show and be the backbone.
 

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A lot of it is in fact effort. How do you think they all of a sudden closed the rebounding gap against Chicago? It takes a certain mindset to be a good rebounding team and when they decide they want to put the effort into rebounding they do a decent job of it. The defensive rotations falter when multiple players aren't doing their job. Being good at defense takes all 5 guys working together and that hasn't been the case.
Rondo was tearing up our backcourt getting wherever he wanted with the ball forcing our defense to rotate/switch. The Bulls also forced us to move our feet defensively with ball movement. All that ended when Rondo went down resulting in our bigs being in better position to rebound. It wasn't as much about effort as it was being out of positon to keep the Bulls off the offensive glass.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Well, Stevens could start Smart and Rozier and full court press them right from the start, then bring IT off the bench early. Or is that going too far...??
Great call!! I was just coming here to posting similar as an option. While it is baffling to me why Stevens went back to Green and even went to Amir at all, to me the obvious defender who is versatile enough to switch on Wall is Jaylen. I'm pleading with Brad to start him in Game 4.

The other problem I see is that when Wall is on the bench it coincides with Isaiah getting his blow and that simply is not the most efficient was to defend this team with our personnel. Isaiah should be on the floor every minute Brandon Jennings is in the game for Wall. This can be best accomplished by inserting him into the game midway through the 1st and 3rd quarters. While I'm not calling for this just yet we need to be able to find better ways to hide Isaiah defensively......if Brad refuses to utilize Jaylen's athleticism with that first unit to start the game and 3rd quarter this would be my other alternative.
 

Big John

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They missed so many open shots that I find it hard to analyze what they should do differently, except to make a few. But I like the idea of Jaylen Brown starting. Why not?
 

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To me, the biggest difference btw games 1/2 and game 3, was the effect of the home crowd. Last night, as Washington hit shot after shot, the crowd responses grew louder and louder, naturally. THAt is something that affects all, but I think it makes a huge difference to the bench players. When Bogdanovic hit that fist outrageously deep 3 as the shot clock expired, the crowd went predictably nuts. From that point forward, not only Bog, but the whole Wizard team could not miss. THat's where the 22-0 run happened. That is the run that decided the game.

When you are playing at home, you can afford to let the opponents get ahead, because the crowd will help you make a run. When you are away, you don't get that juice.

Brad and the Celts have to make sure the Wizards don't get on that sort of run. Maybe Smart in the starting lineup would do it. I don't know. But they need to find something.

Any word on Oubre?
Not whining here, but another difference in the games you mentioned is the way the referees called the contact on IT4. In the first games he didn't get bumped/bodied without calls. In the last game I think the amount of contact he was experiencing was higher, without the same quantity of the calls. Again without complaint it seemed his focus was off due to any of 100 understandable reasons - I think it showed on the free throw line if nothing else.
 

tbrown_01923

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Weren't the Wiz overplaying the passing lanes denying easy passes, and isn't the resolve to that the backdoor cut? I didn't see too many backdoor cuts in game 3. The few I saw didn't have a chance as the ball handler didn't make the pass. I have felt all season that the team is slow to adapt their offense in light of the way the defense is playing. How many times are they going to attempt that lazy above the arch handoff with pressure d? Run bradley off some picks!

I was also bothered by Jaylen Brown's involvement in the offense. He was in the game for four bad possessions (in the midst of the 12 scoreless possessions), and then they went to Jaylen. Too much pressure at that point to go to the rook...
 

HomeRunBaker

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They missed so many open shots that I find it hard to analyze what they should do differently, except to make a few. But I like the idea of Jaylen Brown starting. Why not?
Let the record state that Popovich also started my draft binky 20-year old Dejounte Murray at the point guard position on the road in this game last night. Kawhi even tweeted out how he did a nice job being thrown into the fire on the road. If you want to talk about coaching decisions making an impact in a game look no further than Pop last night and to Brad being 3 games behind in his thinking as we dug a deep hole all 3 games thus far.

Dejounte made an immediate impact in drawing an offensive foul, grabbed a few rebounds, had a steal and overall the team began the game with an energy that they hadn't in the previous games. That's exactly what I feel Jaylen can bring. He didn't shoot the ball well in his 14 minutes but his defensive energy was great and the Spurs outscored the Rockets 29-18 in those 14 minutes he was on the floor.

If Jaylen can provide half of that as opposed to us giving up 40+ in all 3 1st quarters to the Wiz while spotting them a double digit lead I'd be ecstatic. I'm not looking for him to be a savior.....only to provide a defensive energy that Green and Amir can't as Murray did last night for the Spurs. Hopefully Brad reads this thread (half joking) or at least had an Ah-Ha moment watching the Spurs energy level to start the game yesterday.
 

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Weren't the Wiz overplaying the passing lanes denying easy passes, and isn't the resolve to that the backdoor cut? I didn't see too many backdoor cuts in game 3. The few I saw didn't have a chance as the ball handler didn't make the pass. I have felt all season that the team is slow to adapt their offense in light of the way the defense is playing. How many times are they going to attempt that lazy above the arch handoff with pressure d? Run bradley off some picks!

I was also bothered by Jaylen Brown's involvement in the offense. He was in the game for four bad possessions (in the midst of the 12 scoreless possessions), and then they went to Jaylen. Too much pressure at that point to go to the rook...
Bradley of all of them enjoys making the back door cut even if he doesn't always finish well. I think that's where IT4 could grow his game next - his passing game. He generates so much attention that if his passing were a bit better he could be just as devastating but I think the offense might flow around him better. I'm not meaning he doesn't pass but that I think it could be a real weapon for the team.
 

the moops

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That's a shame for the Celtics, he was great for us this series so far. Only guy were IT could be consistently hidden and a disaster on defense.
This is true, but this further weakens their already shitty and thin bench. Wall and Beal will be playing like 45 minutes a piece.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Lots of whiney posts on NBA twitter about how dirty Olynyk is and how bad his screen was on Oubre. I really wonder if any of those folks have ever watched 80s and 90s playoff basketball. I suspect if they had, they would be aghast at how the Celtics, Cavs, Pistons, Knicks and Trailblazers never had any of their players incarcerated.
 

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Lots of whiney posts on NBA twitter about how dirty Olynyk is and how bad his screen was on Oubre. I really wonder if any of those folks have ever watched 80s and 90s playoff basketball. I suspect if they had, they would be aghast at how the Celtics, Cavs, Pistons, Knicks and Trailblazers never had any of their players incarcerated.
Yeah, if Gortat gets to do what he does on every screen, Morris gets to throw Horford into the crowd, Olynyk is allowed any screen that doesn't involve a bulldozer, a catapult, or a rubber chicken. I could be convinced on the chicken part.

Whiners - they initiated the physicality this series from the get go.

That said, I hope they call this tighter than the lid on one my grandmothers jam jars - I despised Detroit Pistons 80/90s thug ball and have no desire for a return there.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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To be fair, Olynyk went really high on Oubre - it was a pretty awful screen but he was called for it. That said, these are the playoffs and teams play hard. No tears about those Gortat and Morris plays here either. Its part of the game this time of year.
 

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To be fair, Olynyk went really high on Oubre - it was a pretty awful screen but he was called for it. That said, these are the playoffs and teams play hard. No tears about those Gortat and Morris plays here either. Its part of the game this time of year.
Agreed, it's either on, or it's not - leave the whining at home.

There was a vicious elbow towards IT4 in game 3 that either just grazed him or just missed him. He spun around looking for a referee to acknowledge it but nothing was happening. If it had been landed though IT4 would have been leveled.
 

Cellar-Door

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One thing I'd like to see in Game 4 is to make a move of Rozier in for IT earlier than IT usually comes out. My thought process being, get Rozier in there to get the top defensive unit to disrupt whatever rhythm WAS has early, and it means IT gets more minutes vs. the WAS bench unit where they can't guard him and there is more chances to hide IT on defense.
 

bankshot1

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Lots of whiney posts on NBA twitter about how dirty Olynyk is and how bad his screen was on Oubre. I really wonder if any of those folks have ever watched 80s and 90s playoff basketball. I suspect if they had, they would be aghast at how the Celtics, Cavs, Pistons, Knicks and Trailblazers never had any of their players incarcerated.
It was a moving pick with a late shove and Olynyk got called on it.

Wiz fans (nee Bullet fans) should stop for a second and reflect upon the play of Mahorn and Ruland, or McFilthy and McNasty, who earned a pretty good living pounding the crap out of guys who ran into their blind picks.
 

JakeRae

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It was a moving pick with a late shove and Olynyk got called on it.

Wiz fans (nee Bullet fans) should stop for a second and reflect upon the play of Mahorn and Ruland, or McFilthy and McNasty, who earned a pretty good living pounding the crap out of guys who ran into their blind picks.
His feet were set for the pick and he released after the impact, but he wasn't set very long, so I understand the call. It was a borderline offensive foul call and wasn't dirty. The forearm to the neck was a product of Olynyk being a lot taller than Oubre and Oubre not knowing he was running into him so he had his head down. It's not Olynyk's job to get out of his way there, it's Oubre's job to know where the offensive players are. Olynyk's play was not dirty, it was a good screen that got called a foul because of Oubre's fall, not because of the pick itself. Oubre probably should've gotten suspended at least 2 games, especially since he wouldn't even acknowledge afterwards that what he did was unacceptable but instead victim-blamed.
 

bankshot1

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His feet were set for the pick and he released after the impact, but he wasn't set very long, so I understand the call. It was a borderline offensive foul call and wasn't dirty. The forearm to the neck was a product of Olynyk being a lot taller than Oubre and Oubre not knowing he was running into him so he had his head down. It's not Olynyk's job to get out of his way there, it's Oubre's job to know where the offensive players are. Olynyk's play was not dirty, it was a good screen that got called a foul because of Oubre's fall, not because of the pick itself. Oubre probably should've gotten suspended at least 2 games, especially since he wouldn't even acknowledge afterwards that what he did was unacceptable but instead victim-blamed.
I don't think it was dirty either. Oubre ran into a (moving) wall. I don't think Olynyk was perfectly stationary. It was a foul. I've seen a gazillion like it over the years.Oubre's reaction was over the top, dangerous, and I think the additional 1 game penalty was warranted and fair.
 

lars10

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Oubre should be angry at his teammates. The only reason that pick looked the way it did because he ran into it blind. If his teammates call out the pick like they should he at least has a chance to react. Kelly was probably moving, but we've seen moving screens all playoffs... Lopez and Gortat have yet to set a legal screen.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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His feet were set for the pick and he released after the impact, but he wasn't set very long, so I understand the call. It was a borderline offensive foul call and wasn't dirty. The forearm to the neck was a product of Olynyk being a lot taller than Oubre and Oubre not knowing he was running into him so he had his head down. It's not Olynyk's job to get out of his way there, it's Oubre's job to know where the offensive players are. Olynyk's play was not dirty, it was a good screen that got called a foul because of Oubre's fall, not because of the pick itself. Oubre probably should've gotten suspended at least 2 games, especially since he wouldn't even acknowledge afterwards that what he did was unacceptable but instead victim-blamed.
The problem is, deserved or not, Olynyk has a reputation amongst non-Boston NBA watchers for being "dirty" due to the Love play as well as his general clumsiness (or as Jason Concepcion says of Olynyk "He is in the bottom-third percentile of “moving in a graceful manner”). Furthermore, any hard fouls/screens are going to be amplified by the recent history between these two teams as well as the stakes of this series.

In short, you aren't going to win an argument with anyone who thinks that Kelly is out to hurt people. On the other hand, I like that the Celtics play a physical style of basketball, even it doesn't match up the current NBA aesthetic. I think you can make a case that it allows them to be a lot more competitive with teams that have more talent than them.
 
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Cellar-Door

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I think Oubre also reacted because a few possessions earlier there was a much worse pick by Olynyk where he extended into the neck area with both hands. That one was pretty bad and somehow got missed.
 

Devizier

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Lots of whiney posts on NBA twitter about how dirty Olynyk is and how bad his screen was on Oubre. I really wonder if any of those folks have ever watched 80s and 90s playoff basketball. I suspect if they had, they would be aghast at how the Celtics, Cavs, Pistons, Knicks and Trailblazers never had any of their players incarcerated.
They don't even need to change the channel, Gortat sets hard screens and extends his arms on them, too.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Oubre should be angry at his teammates. The only reason that pick looked the way it did because he ran into it blind. If his teammates call out the pick like they should he at least has a chance to react. Kelly was probably moving, but we've seen moving screens all playoffs... Lopez and Gortat have yet to set a legal screen.
Also, on a prior possession, Wall caught him with an elbow, which he might have thought was from Olynyk.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Montana Fan

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An ex player was on NBA Radio the other day, maybe Sam Mitchell, and he was asked who the toughest guy in the NBA was when he played. He said running into a screen set by Kevin Willis was like running into a wall. He described Willis as one solid muscle. There were a lot of tough players back then.

As for Olynyk - Oubre, the screen he set didn't seem any harder than many others that have happened this postseason, going both ways. As was mentioned, a little warning from a teammate would have helped.