Round 2: Bruins vs. That Team Up North
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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That idea is probably a relic of old Bruin teams that were filled with defensemen who could only gasp in despair whenever a Hab waltzed around them with shocking ease. B's are a lot more mobile now. Of course there are still plenty of ways to lose.Greg29fan said:
Yeah, and their other speedy defenseman, Krug, had a couple of key turnovers, one of which led directly to a goal.Ed Hillel said:
I feel kind of like I did after the first game against Detroit. While it didn't seem like the volume of chances that they had last night, in that game Boston also had pucks slide through the crease, they missed an open net, etc. Last night they had posts, open nets, rolling pucks, etc. They convert ONE of them and it's a win. Price made some good saves, but he was beaten a few times and it didn't cost him.
Sometimes that shit can last a whole series, but I didn't get the sense that Price was standing on his head the whole game.
Also, this: http://deadspin.com/bruins-unimpressed-by-carey-prices-48-save-night-1570767571
And check out the avatar of the author in the comments below the story. SJH, is that you?
Sometimes that shit can last a whole series, but I didn't get the sense that Price was standing on his head the whole game.
Also, this: http://deadspin.com/bruins-unimpressed-by-carey-prices-48-save-night-1570767571
And check out the avatar of the author in the comments below the story. SJH, is that you?
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
I'm not as up on advanced hockey metrics as I am baseball, and I'm not sure if they exist at this point, but if there is an equivalent of WAR in hockey I'd love to see Krug's number. My sense is that he's probably about a break-even guy, but there's really no way to prove that I know of. He obviously adds a lot fo the power play, but they do have Hamilton/Boychuck back there as well. If they decide to go another direction this offseason I won't be heartbroken. If they keep him for a reasonable price I won't be all that upset either. It's just an up and down rollercoaster with the guy.
He just turned 23 with just over a years experience in the NHL. He's an offensive force and shows a ton of potential towards being a top 4 puck moving defenseman. He'll never be a shutdown guy, but that doesn't mean you get rid of him because he has a rough game. Keep the reactionary BS to the game threads.
I love watching Krug play. Love it. His skating is incredible for a defenseman. I agree with you, Ed, that he has some defensive flaws that take a hit on his overall value. However, I think a lot of it can be fixed with coaching.
At times he tries to focus too much on the puck and do everything with his skating. There was a perfect example in the 3rd period last night where a Habs player had the puck behind the Bruins' net, Krug tries to poke the puck out, and tries to skate out from the boards with it. The Habs player poked the puck back away from Krug and sent an opportune pass in front of the net. Even though Krug doesn't have much size, he needed to check the Habs player and separate him from the puck. There were other Bs in the area that could get the puck. Play a more fundamental game on the defensive end to limit chances and save the skating/stick handling skills for offense
At times he tries to focus too much on the puck and do everything with his skating. There was a perfect example in the 3rd period last night where a Habs player had the puck behind the Bruins' net, Krug tries to poke the puck out, and tries to skate out from the boards with it. The Habs player poked the puck back away from Krug and sent an opportune pass in front of the net. Even though Krug doesn't have much size, he needed to check the Habs player and separate him from the puck. There were other Bs in the area that could get the puck. Play a more fundamental game on the defensive end to limit chances and save the skating/stick handling skills for offense
My initial reaction on that play was that Boychuk needed to make a better pass. He was not under any type of distress (exiting the zone) prior to the cross-ice feed, and the puck ultimately ended up in Krug's skates.Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Not sure how Johnny doesn't shoulder a material portion of blame if we're doling it out.
Krug's very effective when deployed properly which Julien does. His even strength Corsi and Fenwick numbers are at about 55% which are excellent, but he does play very sheltered minutes. 65% o-zone start is 2nd on the whole team behind just Thornton (closest Dman is Hamiltom at 51%), and Krug also faces the weakest opposition from the other team. Things happen when you get into overtime. Julien gave him a little more rope than usual last night in hopes of getting a goal in the 3rd and OT, and I have no problem with it. I thought Krug played pretty well overall. The downside to him is that as much as he can battle, he lacks size and it can be an issue when they get hemmed in, like the Bouillon goal.
Plus he has turned the PP from mediocre to below average to one of the tops in the league. That's not an easy thing to achieve when the only personnel changes were essentially Iginla for Horton and putting Chara in front.Dummy Hoy said:
Dummy Hoy said:
Please, this isn't reactionary. He's had defensive lapses all year, especially in his own zone, and he'll never have the size to compete down low. He's young, so there's room for improvement with his decision-making, but I don't think there's going to be any point where he's actually top 6 defensive D-man in this organization. He's going to have to make up for that with his offense, which he may well do, but I'm not really sure he offers enough to offset what a plus defeseman with size and average puck-moving skills can offer. Especially given that they already have some D-men that can add to the offense and the powerplay. I'm not really sure that I'd take someone with his skill set over another Miller, for example. If they went that direction I wouldn't be all that upset and, as I said, if they kept him at a reasonable deal I wouldn't be all that upset either. I just think he gets a bit overrated because he's fun to watch and extremely likeable.
Don't overlook Hamilton. He offers a lot of what Krug can offer on the power play, although having them both is certainly a plus in the PP department.
That's kind of the problem, though. If there was one extra slot on the roster, Krug would be an absolutely perfect fit. The problem is that he does have to be sheletered because of his defensive issues, which wears on the rest of the team. I'm just struggling to grasp the overall net worth of the guy. He's obviously a PP stud, but he's almost like a 13th forward, and the D is playing short-handed. When you have a Chara and a Seidenberg on the roster, I'm not sure you can afford to have one of your young D-men lacking size and playing limited minutes on D. I wonder if there's any chance the kid could be converted to a forward, or if it's just too late at this point in his career.
Last night confirmed for me what the regular season stats showed: the Bruins are the superior 5-on-5 team. The Bs were first in the league in 5-on-5 For/Against (1.53) and fourth in CorsiFor% (53.9), in contrast to Montreal who was 16th in 5-5 F/A (0.99) and 26th in CF% (46.7). If the Bruins stay out of the box, the series should go their way.
Last night was a lot like Game 4 versus the Rangers last year - a perfect storm of poor decisions, subpar (by his standards) goaltending by Rask, and unfavorable officiating that the Habs opportunistically capitalized on at a high and (hopefully) unsustainable rate.
Last night was a lot like Game 4 versus the Rangers last year - a perfect storm of poor decisions, subpar (by his standards) goaltending by Rask, and unfavorable officiating that the Habs opportunistically capitalized on at a high and (hopefully) unsustainable rate.
Ed Hillel said:
Saying you're willing to get rid of a 23 year old who has the skill set that Krug does after 1 year is reactionary.
Do you have any idea how many offensive defensmen around the league are 'sheltered' and bring their teams great success because of it? I'm not saying that Krug is the equal of any of these players but your description of Krug fits names like Karlsson, LeTang, Keith, Green, and a host of others.
I hate to be harsh, but you don't know what you're talking about here. Krug is limited, but 29 teams would scoop him up if he was available.
Is it me, is Bartkowski extremely loose with the puck in his own end. I don't blame him per se for the late penalty, but he had to have turned the puck over at least 5-7 times in the last period and the OTs.
Ed Hillel said:
This is disastrously short-sighted, for a long list of reasons:
1. Krug, as a rookie, gave the Bruins an offensive dimension from the blue line that they have not had since the days of Ray Bourque. That is not something to take lightly.
2. "Defensive lapses all year". Overstated. He had kind of a rough stretch midseason. But the Bruins, with Krug, were one of the best defensive teams in the NHL. Are you seriously arguing that the Bruins, as a team, aren't good enough defensively? That's absurd - they are an elite defensive team exactly as they are. Sacrificing offense for what would be a marginal upgrade to the #6 defense slot makes no sense whatsoever.
3. Part of defense is puck possession and being an offensive threat. This isn't the NFL, where defenses rarely score and offenses are rarely scored upon. Replace Krug with, say, another Boychuk, and the Bruins become easier to play against, since their transition from defense to offense would be weaker. The more effectively a team can break out of its end, the more mindful opposing players have to be about allowing odd man rushes, etc.
Boychuck, BTW, is as responsible as Krug for Montreal's second goal last night. That play started with Boychuk carrying the puck out of the Bruins' zone. Unfortunately, he was slow, he held the puck too long (allowing Montreal to complete a line change), and finally he made a bad pass that Krug mishandled. I'd call Boychuk's mistake worse because it was basically an unforced error.
4. And what do you mean we can't afford an offensive-minded guy on a team with a Norris candidate (not for his offense) and one of the league's best defensive #2 guys? I'd say that's exactly the team where you can afford to have a player who brings something different to the table. I suppose you mean because they are getting old... but I don't see that as a concern, in part because they have other youth at the position in Hamilton, Bart, Miller.
5. Defensemen often take years to develop their defensive game. At ages 22 and 23 (Krug's age) Zdeno Chara had a team worst +/- on the Islanders (-27). Those Islanders teams sucked, but all of their other defensemen had to deal with playing on the same lousy team, and none of them were a -27. At least Chara was in the NHL. Johnny Boychuk and Kevan Miller were 26 before either saw meaningful NHL playing time as a third pair defensman. Brian Rafalski was undrafted and had to spend 5 years playing in Sweden and Finland before he became a star in the NHL. There's no good reason to think that Krug won't improve defensively with experience - most do.
You guys are probably right, and there's no question the guy is a great offensive player, but I don't have much confidence in the guy developing too much defensively because he doesn't have the physical tools that most NHL defensemen have, so I don't think you can compare him to Chara, Boychuck, etc. He's never going to have the size, he's never going to have the length, so he's going to have to rely on his speed and he's going to lose a ton of puck battles and get shoved around in front of the net (which is what I was referencing moreso than turnovers). I don't think any of that is ever going to change. It's quite possible I am underestimating what he brings to the table offensively and how much that offsets his issues defensively.
Sorry if I didn't look around enough, but is there really not a single post about the volume of racist tweets sent subban's way? I'm honestly having trouble today caring about this series knowing there are so many ignorant Bruins fans still. I know those assholes don't represent everyone but it still turns me off an incredible amount. Like, I care more that those Fucking idiots are unhappy more than I want myself to be happy.
TheShynessClinic said:
OK, YOU WIN. I HATE MYSELF. ARE YOU HAPPY?
It's bad, but that's Twitter. I think you'll find a bunch of idiots for every fanbase if you really looked hard enough to care. It fits with Boston because of the past issues, so it remains a media focus, but if you even look at a city like St. Louis and they had a bunch of fans spouting racist insults when Wong got picked off. I don't run around searching Twitter, but I suspect it happens more than you'd want to know.
Yup. There are idiots and racists in every fan base. St. Louis being a recent example. The BestFansinBaseball twitter account had tons of racist shit directed at Red Sox and Cardinals players alike.Ed Hillel said:
During any sporting even where minorities are involved, do a twitter search for nigger, spic, faggot, gook, whatever. It's everywhere.
The world is a disgusting place. Twitter brings that reality to light in a very public way.
Didn't Kevin Weekes get a banana thrown at him in Montreal?
Yes. http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41885-NHL-says-bananathrowing-incident-in-preseason-game-is-stupid-and-ignorant.html
Yes. http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41885-NHL-says-bananathrowing-incident-in-preseason-game-is-stupid-and-ignorant.html
There are undersized defensemen who have good NHL careers (and would not even be thought of as "offense-only" players). Don Sweeney. Brian Rafalaki. Andrew Ference. Just to name a few.Ed Hillel said:
I agree with Smas - the reaction of fans and the subsequent reflection on the city/fan base turns me off a lot. I'm going to watch game 2 of course , I'm just saying I'm a little disheartened by it all, it's depressing and predictable. Who are these people and do they really believe they contribute positively to society or do they not even contemplate that?
I am very proud of Cam for coming out and disassociating the club from the idiots. Quote and link below. Also, if you caught ATH today, Jackie Mac put the hammer down as well.
""The racist, classless views expressed by an ignorant group of individuals following Thursday's game via digital media are in no way a reflection of anyone associated with the Bruins organization," Neely said in a statement issued by the team."
http://espn.go.com/boston/nhl/story/_/id/10872728/2014-stanley-cup-playoffs-boston-bruins-cam-neely-blasts-fans-classless-views-pk-subban
I am very proud of Cam for coming out and disassociating the club from the idiots. Quote and link below. Also, if you caught ATH today, Jackie Mac put the hammer down as well.
""The racist, classless views expressed by an ignorant group of individuals following Thursday's game via digital media are in no way a reflection of anyone associated with the Bruins organization," Neely said in a statement issued by the team."
http://espn.go.com/boston/nhl/story/_/id/10872728/2014-stanley-cup-playoffs-boston-bruins-cam-neely-blasts-fans-classless-views-pk-subban
You're rooting against the Bruins because a tiny minority of fans are assholes? Will you be rooting against Montreal as well then? Every team south of the Mason-Dixon Line? Every team? Every fan base has racist assholes, just because some of them have twitter accounts shouldn't require you to plunge your sword of forgiveness into your stomach as some sort of penance because these assholes happen to be Bruins fans.smastroyin said:
I remember this coming to light two years ago after the Joel Ward goal. Of course those sand stories weren't as widely reported when DC had a similar reaction to a Joel Ward penalty against the Rags (high stick in OT IIRC) led to a GWG. It just fits the national narrative of "Boston's still racist" too easily. It pops up every couple of years and gets idiots like my brother to buy into it and make snide comments about Malcom Subban ever being accepted by the city.
kenneycb said:
Yep. There were definitely racist tweets sent Joel Ward's way after his series winner against Boston. And there was definitely backlash towards Ward when he took an accidental double minor at the end of game 5 against the Rangers in the next round, though I don't recall it being as laced with racism. You may be correct that it was just the lack of reporting on it though, it's hard to tell at this point. Ward took a double minor high stick with 22 seconds left in the game while the Caps were up 2-1. Richards scored with 8 seconds left in regulation to tie the game, and Staal scored on the carry over PP to open OT.
To Ward's credit, he took it all in stride and never veered from being classy. He's a stand up guy and my favorite current Capitals player.
TheRealness said:
This. Fucking morons on twitter, who may or not even be Bruins fans, spewing racist bile. Happens every day, all over the world. Barely qualifies as a news story. And it's certainly nothing for any Bruins fan to wear a hair shirt over.
Boston has an unfair reputation as a (still) racist city, so this stuff gets actively scouted for and reported upon.
Anyone who believes that every team, everywhere, doesn't have racist fans is stupid, naive, biased, or all three.
I mean, come on; you don't think Montreal or NYC have fans that post racist shit? Get real.
Anyone who believes that every team, everywhere, doesn't have racist fans is stupid, naive, biased, or all three.
I mean, come on; you don't think Montreal or NYC have fans that post racist shit? Get real.
Hey Smas, don't read the comments section of the Glob, Herald, etc., you'll probably wind up wanting to kill yourself.
He's a diver, kind of dirty, chirpy. And its kind of frustrating to me as a hockey fan because he's a pretty amazing player and I want to like him...I hope he outgrows some of that stuff. Plenty of time, he's a young player.drleather2001 said:
I'd love him on the Flyers.
This is exactly how I feel about him. He is a really talented player, but resorts to so much of the crap that you see fringe players resort to in order to get things to go his way. It's the same reason I can't stand Sydney Crosby... these guys don't have to pull this shit to be awesome, and yet they keep doing it, and it is aggravating as hell.MoGator71 said:
Fair point about Sid, and to his credit he's really toned down a lot of the stuff that made him a pretty unlikeable player. He will still embellish some, and he complains a bit still, but as annoying as that stuff is at the heart of it he's just trying to gain an edge and win games. And he's not nearly the worst offender in the league.
Christ, I just defended Sidney Crosby, shame on me.
As for PK, I wonder how much shit he's had to put up with as a black player in a largely white sport. He seems to play with a bit of a chip on his shoulder.
Christ, I just defended Sidney Crosby, shame on me.
As for PK, I wonder how much shit he's had to put up with as a black player in a largely white sport. He seems to play with a bit of a chip on his shoulder.
The team has done the right thing, with at least Cam Neely and Julien condemning the nonsense.
If the mediots want to make this a bigger story by either foolishly claiming the tweets are representative of the views of the Bruins' fan base, lazily connect it to 30 year old incidents, or inaccurately claim that incidents such as these are unique to Boston, that's not the team's fault.
If the mediots want to make this a bigger story by either foolishly claiming the tweets are representative of the views of the Bruins' fan base, lazily connect it to 30 year old incidents, or inaccurately claim that incidents such as these are unique to Boston, that's not the team's fault.
MoGator71 said:
PK is very special, and he's really the first black player who plays hockey like he learned it at Rucker Park instead of small-town Ontario. I also get the sense he doesn't much care for people less talented than him (which is, like, everybody) telling him how to play the game. That's going to rub people the wrong way, especially those who think people with his skin color should know their place. Play the white way, as Darren Pang said.
MoGator71 said:
I don't remember if it was Pang or someone else, but there was definitely some commentator who meant to say "right way" and ended up saying "white way" while discussing Subban.
Edit: Bless you google.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tNVwQUJoik
This is one of those games that as a coach you're still pretty pissy afterwards. Glad for the comeback, and these are grown men so no one is getting yelled at, but I guarantee Clode is not real smiley right now. Their play from the start of the second until halfway through the third was pathetic and was the exact recipe for how the Habs steal this series.
A lot better than going to Bell down 2-0 though.
A lot better than going to Bell down 2-0 though.
The gamewinner was a good example of what Krug means to the team. He had a nice assist on the goal, but even before that he was the reason the Bruins had a possession in the Montreal end instead of turning the puck over for a Montreal possession.
He was a disaster out there for most of the game, for sure. But he did come to life briefly, and critically, in the third.Stitch01 said: