Rosenthal: Sale extension 5 years, $145 million

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I guess, after signing an extension (so his future is secure) and clearing being embarrassed by his performance thus far, I don't see what is to be gained by hiding an injury if it's causing him to perform so poorly.
Not necessarily anything to be gained, no. But acknowledging a serious injury would mean admitting that there's no quick and straight path back to being the kind of pitcher he's used to being, and it's human nature to resist coming to grips with something like that even internally, let alone publicly.

None of which proves that he is hurt, of course.
 

DirtyWater90

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I don’t think he’s hurt. I think he (directed by the Red Sox) is changing how he pitches in order to stay healthy all year long. And it’s not working AT ALL. Sale is a strikeout pitcher and trying to change that is a major major mistake, because now you’ve got a guy who is totally lost and probably for the first time ever in his career, confidence definitely shaken. What an absolutely awful plan by Cora, starting with the failure to get these guys enough spring training reps.
 

Plympton91

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I don’t think he’s hurt. I think he (directed by the Red Sox) is changing how he pitches in order to stay healthy all year long. And it’s not working AT ALL. Sale is a strikeout pitcher and trying to change that is a major major mistake, because now you’ve got a guy who is totally lost and probably for the first time ever in his career, confidence definitely shaken. What an absolutely awful plan by Cora, starting with the failure to get these guys enough spring training reps.
That is certainly a plausible narrative.

Did folks see that after having had a poor 2nd half of 2018, presumably having a physical when he signed his big extension this offseason, then having been shut down this spring with shoulder soreness, it’s now been revealed that Luis Severino has a partially torn labrum? Yeah. Worried.
 

jon abbey

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That is certainly a plausible narrative.

Did folks see that after having had a poor 2nd half of 2018, presumably having a physical when he signed his big extension this offseason, then having been shut down this spring with shoulder soreness, it’s now been revealed that Luis Severino has a partially torn labrum? Yeah. Worried.
No it hasn’t, and stop making other people fact check your often incorrect posts.
 
Feb 6, 2018
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I don’t think he’s hurt. I think he (directed by the Red Sox) is changing how he pitches in order to stay healthy all year long. And it’s not working AT ALL. Sale is a strikeout pitcher and trying to change that is a major major mistake, because now you’ve got a guy who is totally lost and probably for the first time ever in his career, confidence definitely shaken. What an absolutely awful plan by Cora, starting with the failure to get these guys enough spring training reps.
I think Sale just needs more time to get his arm going. He has said he doesn’t like pitching in cold weather and his velocity picks up when the summer comes. If he’s not hurt, he will be fine.
 

Plympton91

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No it hasn’t, and stop making other people fact check your often incorrect posts.
Ugh. Sorry. I either misheard MLB Radio talking heads this morning or they got it wrong. But they talked about it for several minutes, and I could swear they said labrum. Nonetheless, 2nd degree LAT strain (=partial tear) not labrum.
 
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Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I think Sale just needs more time to get his arm going. He has said he doesn’t like pitching in cold weather and his velocity picks up when the summer comes. If he’s not hurt, he will be fine.
His comments post-game yesterday do not dovetail with this rose-colored outlook. He's saying he's lost on the mound and that has nothing to do with cold temperatures or a dead arm. What DW90 said makes much more sense (and I'd take it a step farther to say that the new pitching style directive likely came down the second the ink dried on the contract extension, so he couldn't balk at it or use it as a reason to avoid signing) and, if true, I suspect they're going to have to tell him to open up and let it fly and modify the plan to keep him on a strict pitch count or innings limit per game. He may have to be an 80-pitch, 6-inning pitcher until the postseason (if they get there) when he can start emptying the clip, and they'll have to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to fix it so that he can still pitch with abandon but remain strong throughout the year. I've said it many times before and I'll say it again now, but I think the fix is a very simple one: add more upper body mass. I think 15 pounds or so (maybe less) of solid muscle in his upper body might be all it really takes to strengthen that shoulder and keep it strong. I'm not a sports scientist, nor do I play one on TV, and I could be totally wrong here but I've always felt his frame simply was not going to hold up long term with the way he pitches. Not everyone who is slight but can throw smoke is going to hold up like Pedro did, because Pedro was a generational talent. I think he needs to get more around the size Verlander is but I'll settle for him just figuring out how to get through the season and be consistently effective.
 

brandonchristensen

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His comments post-game yesterday do not dovetail with this rose-colored outlook. He's saying he's lost on the mound and that has nothing to do with cold temperatures or a dead arm. What DW90 said makes much more sense (and I'd take it a step farther to say that the new pitching style directive likely came down the second the ink dried on the contract extension, so he couldn't balk at it or use it as a reason to avoid signing) and, if true, I suspect they're going to have to tell him to open up and let it fly and modify the plan to keep him on a strict pitch count or innings limit per game. He may have to be an 80-pitch, 6-inning pitcher until the postseason (if they get there) when he can start emptying the clip, and they'll have to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to fix it so that he can still pitch with abandon but remain strong throughout the year. I've said it many times before and I'll say it again now, but I think the fix is a very simple one: add more upper body mass. I think 15 pounds or so (maybe less) of solid muscle in his upper body might be all it really takes to strengthen that shoulder and keep it strong. I'm not a sports scientist, nor do I play one on TV, and I could be totally wrong here but I've always felt his frame simply was not going to hold up long term with the way he pitches. Not everyone who is slight but can throw smoke is going to hold up like Pedro did, because Pedro was a generational talent. I think he needs to get more around the size Verlander is but I'll settle for him just figuring out how to get through the season and be consistently effective.
I don’t think anyone would mind him being an 80-pitch, 6 inning pitcher.

But how often has he been that economical?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'm not a sports scientist, nor do I play one on TV, and I could be totally wrong here but I've always felt his frame simply was not going to hold up long term with the way he pitches. Not everyone who is slight but can throw smoke is going to hold up like Pedro did, because Pedro was a generational talent. I think he needs to get more around the size Verlander is but I'll settle for him just figuring out how to get through the season and be consistently effective.
Pedro didn't hold up though. He had a serious shoulder scare at age 29 (same age as Sale last season) and was diminished from his peak by the time he left the Sox after 2004 and ended up needing major shoulder surgery before he retired. His injury scare was arguably more serious that what Sale went through...Pedro was diagnosed with a rotator cuff injury (rather than inflammation) and tried to come back late in the season to middling results before shutting down again.

He came back in 2002 and started rather roughly. Actually eerily similar to Sale's start now:

Opening Day: 3+ IP, 8 R, 7 ER, 9 H, 2 BB, 2 HBP, 4 K
2nd start: 6 IP, 1 R, 0 ER, 3 H, 1 BB, 5 K
3rd start: 5.1 IP, 5 R, 4 ER, 3 H, 2 BB, 2 HBP, 7 K

Obviously he settled down and had a CY worth season (robbed by Zito and his superior win total), but it was the very next year in which it was much discussed that he struggled once he exceeded 100 pitches. He was still effective for a few more years, but he definitely wasn't the durable horse that he was prior to 2001.

Sale may be making adjustments in order to protect himself from further shoulder inflammation (or worse) and hasn't figured them out yet. Or he may be holding back, perhaps out of some subconscious fear of re-injury. Either way, I don't think three starts in is when something drastic needs to happen, nor is it enough to conclude if he's broken beyond repair.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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To be fair, Pedro's teammate didn't help him in the CYA race that year. If Lowe had faired slightly worse, Pedro probably wins out over Zito by a hair.

I don’t think anyone would mind him being an 80-pitch, 6 inning pitcher.

But how often has he been that economical?
It was a random number but basically what I meant was find out at what pitch number he starts losing effectiveness and maybe set the limit 15-20 pitches below that number. If that means 6 innings in one start, 5.2 the next, then 7, fine. Just don't let him go for CGs or strikeout records. But if he can't even get out of the 5th while throwing hard and with good movement, there's a much bigger issue.

There's a piece out there with an interview with Clay Buchholz where he talks about going through similar struggles and worrying that he was about to wash out of the league before finding a new style that better fit his deceased abilities but still allowed him to pitch effectively. If Sale is hitting that point in his career, then maybe he needs to learn to pitch backwards and make sure he hits his spots. As we saw with the steal of home, he couldn't even get the ball to the catcher to give him a chance at cutting down the runner. That's a mental lapse, not a physical thing. If it's mental, then they need to get him someone who can help him through it and I'm not sure who that might be.
 
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geoduck no quahog

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The thing that concerns me about Sale is his approach on the mound. Other experienced pitchers understand what they have feel for on any given day...and how the hitters are reacting to certain pitches. Apparently Sale never chooses his own pitch, so he's left with throwing what a dunce like Vazquez calls whether or not it's the correct pitch for that specific at bat.

So, if Sale is only going to use his arm and not his head (which is ok if that works), then the team has to start seriously thinking about trading the oh-so-cute-with-his-bullshit-framing-wannabee-a'molina Vazquez and get a pitch calling savant behind the plate for those starts. I think it would be a shame to lose Swihart. I'm pulling for a Leon who can hit a little...or the Leon we have (not the one we wish we had) to team with Blake. If Leon actually has an impact on the Red Sox number 1 pitcher (and probably others), then it's worth it. Acknowledge reality and move on. The team's done it before.

Now it's probably too early to make a hasty move, but it's not too late either. The beauty of Swihart is that he can pinch hit for the starter without wasting a bench seat. Keep him. Otherwise make Levangie call the game for Vazquez...which is insane.
 

wilked

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The thing that concerns me about Sale is his approach on the mound. Other experienced pitchers understand what they have feel for on any given day...and how the hitters are reacting to certain pitches. Apparently Sale never chooses his own pitch, so he's left with throwing what a dunce like Vazquez calls.
This just name calling or so you have evidence that Vasquez cannot call a game? Because it would seem to fly in the face of the coaching staffs belief in him
 

DirtyWater90

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This just name calling or so you have evidence that Vasquez cannot call a game? Because it would seem to fly in the face of the coaching staffs belief in him
Most of the starters, Sale included (even before this year) have significantly worse numbers pitching to him than they do to Leon.
 

DirtyWater90

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This was an excerpt from Passan's article today on the Red Sox, but I'm just highlighting the part about Sale:

"That said, the reaction around baseball was the awkward marriage of puzzlement at why they did it and giddiness that they actually did. Among the mileage on Sale's arm, the shoulder problems that disabled him twice last year and the fastball velocity going AWOL, the warning signs were lit up like the Citgo sign. And the Red Sox had the perfect hedge: Sale was under contract for the 2019 season. If he looked good, rival executives figured, the Red Sox could extend him following the year. If not, he would hit free agency.

Now, on the heels of his third consecutive troublesome start, with radar guns registering UH-OH instead of a number, the Sale contract is, at least in the short term, a red flag, and not the kind that hangs at Fenway Park celebrating a title. Starting next season, they're on the hook for $29 million a year for Sale -- at least twice what he'd get coming off a substandard 2019"

I find this so cringeworthy and lazy writing, as it only looks at one side of the coin. If the Sox waited on Sale and he had another Sale like season that he's always had, he would have almost assuredly cost them significantly more to keep him once other teams got in on the bidding. They might have gotten outbid and then replaced him with who? Top flight starters still get paid; Patrick Corbin isn't close to Sale and he got 6/$140 on the open market. And this smug piece coming in on the heels of his second bad start (out of 3) just reeks of click bait to me. We'll see what he's saying two months from now when Sale is Sale again.
 

geoduck no quahog

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This just name calling or so you have evidence that Vasquez cannot call a game? Because it would seem to fly in the face of the coaching staffs belief in him
It's a style of writing.

BTW let's let Mr. Sale explain.

“People look at numbers and stats and all these things, but you don’t really look at how he really commands the staff and calls a game,” Sale said. “I mean, I put every bit of faith and trust in him.

“Since I’ve been in this uniform, I’ve never looked at a scouting report, I’ve never watched a video on a hitter — first pitch, none of that — and that probably has to do with confidence in myself but also confidence with who I’m throwing to and what their game plan is.

“You’re probably not going to find anything bad about him or anything like that because he works his butt off.”
“You’re in a 2-and-1 count, most people are just like, ‘OK, we’ve got to get another strike, throw another fastball,’ ” Sale said. “He knew, ‘Well OK, we’re in a 2-and-1 count because of his fastball right now, why don’t you go to something else?’ Knowing the pitcher is something that might get overlooked as well.

“Some people look at it like, ‘Oh 2-and-1, gotta throw it here and get a strike.’ It’s like, ‘Well, we’re here because of that, let’s try this.’

“There’s so many times like, I’m sitting here and I’m thinking of something and it’s right there. Like, I’ll be gripping a slider and he calls it.”
 

CoffeeNerdness

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“Since I’ve been in this uniform, I’ve never looked at a scouting report, I’ve never watched a video on a hitter — first pitch, none of that — and that probably has to do with confidence in myself but also confidence with who I’m throwing to and what their game plan is.
This seems pretty dumb tbh. Especially now if you're dealing with reduced stuff, bad results, and a catcher you don't trust compared to Leon. I hope Cora had a talk with him in regards to his preparation because $29 mil/year for a guy who openly admits they don't prepare for their job is a bit distressing.
 

DirtyWater90

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This seems pretty dumb tbh. Especially now if you're dealing with reduced stuff, bad results, and a catcher you don't trust compared to Leon. I hope Cora had a talk with him in regards to his preparation because $29 mil/year for a guy who openly admits they don't prepare for their job is a bit distressing.
Oh so Sale has been in the league 10 years and suddenly his preparation is bad and needs to be changed? Talk about reactionary and being a prisoner of the moment. What else do you want him to change - his release point to over the top instead of low 3/4?
 

CoffeeNerdness

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and suddenly his preparation
What preparation?

Why are you making excuses for a guy who apparently on his off days can't be bothered to read a scouting report? Can you name one possible downside to reading a scouting report or watching some video? The guy is teammates with a guy who famously remade their career by becoming fanatical in their approach to video analysis and pre-game preparations ffs.

What else do you want him to change - his release point to over the top instead of low 3/4?
Cool strawman.
 

reggiecleveland

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This was an excerpt from Passan's article today on the Red Sox, but I'm just highlighting the part about Sale:

"That said, the reaction around baseball was the awkward marriage of puzzlement at why they did it and giddiness that they actually did. Among the mileage on Sale's arm, the shoulder problems that disabled him twice last year and the fastball velocity going AWOL, the warning signs were lit up like the Citgo sign. And the Red Sox had the perfect hedge: Sale was under contract for the 2019 season. If he looked good, rival executives figured, the Red Sox could extend him following the year. If not, he would hit free agency.

Now, on the heels of his third consecutive troublesome start, with radar guns registering UH-OH instead of a number, the Sale contract is, at least in the short term, a red flag, and not the kind that hangs at Fenway Park celebrating a title. Starting next season, they're on the hook for $29 million a year for Sale -- at least twice what he'd get coming off a substandard 2019"

I find this so cringeworthy and lazy writing, as it only looks at one side of the coin. If the Sox waited on Sale and he had another Sale like season that he's always had, he would have almost assuredly cost them significantly more to keep him once other teams got in on the bidding. They might have gotten outbid and then replaced him with who? Top flight starters still get paid; Patrick Corbin isn't close to Sale and he got 6/$140 on the open market. And this smug piece coming in on the heels of his second bad start (out of 3) just reeks of click bait to me. We'll see what he's saying two months from now when Sale is Sale again.
Good old Sosh, anything we hope isn't true is bad writing.
 

DirtyWater90

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What preparation?

Why are you making excuses for a guy who apparently on his off days can't be bothered to read a scouting report? Can you name one possible downside to reading a scouting report or watching some video? The guy is teammates with a guy who famously remade their career by becoming fanatical in their approach to video analysis and pre-game preparations ffs.



Cool strawman.
Yes I can imagine a downside to that. Too much information can also be a bad thing, it can cause him to overthink and not throw each pitch with 100% conviction. He’s said it himself, he doesn’t want to know if a hitter is hitting .450 on inside fastball because it might cause him some hesitation when he has to throw that pitch and that would be a major problem. Saying he needs to revamp his entire approach that has worked for his entire career after 2 bad starts (with a good start sandwiched in between) is absolutely absurd. I wonder if people did the same questioning of Pedro in 2002 when he got off to a remarkably similar awful start that Sale has gotten off to.

Edit: Also, Sale does watch video. Not of other hitters, but of himself. If you don’t think he’s been watching tons of video on himself during this stretch, I don’t even know what to say to that.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Most of the starters, Sale included (even before this year) have significantly worse numbers pitching to him than they do to Leon.
Sale, by catcher, 2018:

Leon 110 IP 2.04 ERA .515 OPS against
Vazquez 47.2 IP 2.27 ERA .569 OPS against

Yes, technically his numbers were worse with Vazquez. But both lines are absolutely outstanding for a pitcher and both have SSS issues. And the gap between the numbers simply isn't all that large.

I just don't see it.
 

DirtyWater90

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Sale, by catcher, 2018:

Leon 110 IP 2.04 ERA .515 OPS against
Vazquez 47.2 IP 2.27 ERA .569 OPS against

Yes, technically his numbers were worse with Vazquez. But both lines are absolutely outstanding for a pitcher and both have SSS issues. And the gap between the numbers simply isn't all that large.

I just don't see it.
What about the numbers in 2017?
 

geoduck no quahog

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The debate comes down to this:
  • If Leon improves Sale's performance...how does that compare to the offense/defense delta with Vazquez? This is independent of pitch calling.
  • Does Leon improve the outcome of any other pitchers? If so, should that factor in?
  • If Leon is brought up, one of Swihart or Vazquez needs to be traded or released (no options). The likely answer is keep Swihart because of his utility at the plate and as a late inning offensive substitute. What's the ramification of losing Vazquez (i.e., what's his trade value)
  • If a trade is made, who is the emergency catcher in the system that gets called up if there's an injury?
There's some real subtlety in this. For all we know, the comfort with any specific catcher could be a mental thing - which still has theoretical impact. I don't recall a lot of questioning about the Lester/Ross relationship (Chicago certainly believed it). I'm willing to concede that it's a thing.

On the other hand, Ross was exponentially better at the plate than 2018 Leon.

I believe that if a specific catcher evidently improves a staff's performance, that ability supersedes the difference between hitting, say, .200 versus .250. I want to hear more expert opinions from people on the site.
 

mt8thsw9th

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By the way, this guy might be onto something about Sale tipping his changeup.

Is that just flying open on his follow-through, i.e. his arm action is a bit slower but he's leaning right? I'm not sure the hitter is going to be watching for a small difference there when he's probably focusing on his arm. As long as his arm angle isn't completely off, and he's not not beginning the pitch with his glove hand that far off his body only when throwing the CU, I'm not sure if that is entirely the problem. The problem may lie in the fact that his fastball isn't really providing much of a different look given the velocity dip.

Of course I could be completely wrong about this, and my bad if so.
 

NickEsasky

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By the way, this guy might be onto something about Sale tipping his changeup.

While he may be tipping the change, doing it like the screenshot above shouldn't hurt him. If the hitter is looking at anything other than the ball coming out of Sale's hand at that moment, they are'tt hitting much of anything.
 

geoduck no quahog

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The guy also claims the bench was calling the game for Swihart - using a look over as evidence. Except that the bench call for throws to 1B.

His quote: "Catchers don't call pitches anymore. Managers do."

I wouldn't put all that much stock into a single out of context screen capture by this guy.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The debate comes down to this:
  • If Leon improves Sale's performance...how does that compare to the offense/defense delta with Vazquez? This is independent of pitch calling.
  • Does Leon improve the outcome of any other pitchers? If so, should that factor in?
  • If Leon is brought up, one of Swihart or Vazquez needs to be traded or released (no options). The likely answer is keep Swihart because of his utility at the plate and as a late inning offensive substitute. What's the ramification of losing Vazquez (i.e., what's his trade value)
  • If a trade is made, who is the emergency catcher in the system that gets called up if there's an injury?
There's some real subtlety in this. For all we know, the comfort with any specific catcher could be a mental thing - which still has theoretical impact. I don't recall a lot of questioning about the Lester/Ross relationship (Chicago certainly believed it). I'm willing to concede that it's a thing.

On the other hand, Ross was exponentially better at the plate than 2018 Leon.

I believe that if a specific catcher evidently improves a staff's performance, that ability supersedes the difference between hitting, say, .200 versus .250. I want to hear more expert opinions from people on the site.
The comfort with any catcher is ABSOLUTELY a mental thing. We're talking about professional pitchers who got to the level they are at pitching to dozens of different catchers along the way. If they are so reliant on one specific catcher for success, I think it's fair to question whether they belong in the major leagues at all.

Sale, in his MLB career, has thrown to 11 catchers in total. Four of them have caught more than 100 innings for him: Tyler Flowers, Sandy Leon, AJ Pierzynski, and Alex Avila. Here's what he's done with each of them behind the plate...

Flowers 552 IP, 5.41 K/BB, 3.02 ERA, .616 OPS
Leon 319.1 IP, 7.76 K/BB, 2.42 ERA, .561 OPS
Pierzynski 225.2, 3.90 K/BB, 2.51 ERA, .622 OPS
Avila 112.1, 7.25 K/BB, 3.53 ERA, .680 OPS

The next three in descending order of innings...

Dioner Navarro 96.2 IP, 3.48 K/BB, 2.98 ERA, .632 OPS
Josh Phegley 88.1 IP, 4.50 K/BB, 3.36 ERA, .725 OPS
Vazquez 66 IP, 3.79 K/BB, 4.50 ERA, .711 OPS

My bet is that if Vazquez were given the number of innings Pierzynski had with Sale, let alone Leon or Flowers, Sale's numbers would normalize and be right in line with those guys. In other words, Vazquez's stats are a bit skewed from small sample size and continued work with Sale and developing better chemistry and rhythm would probably leave them in as good a position as panicking and bringing back Leon at this point.

IMO, Sale's messed up beyond what the catcher's influence can quickly fix. He's got mechanical and mental fixes to make that shouldn't depend at all on who's behind the plate.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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They couldn't get someone to take León off their hands in a trade, so I don't think there's any market for Vázquez either. The former has a cheaper deal and a rep of being a pitcher whisperer whereas the latter does not and they couldn't find a taker for the former. If they let Vázquez go, he's headed to the minors or to free agency. Any team that wants to take a flyer on him will do so once he's free and clear of Boston.
 

DirtyWater90

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Apparently, Sale needs even more rest and is having his next start pushed back to Tuesday against the Yankees. Yeah, that's a great idea, put a pitcher out there who's never been more lost in New York against that lineup. And that's besides the fact that extra days of rest aren't helpful for the starters right now; their issue is lack of reps in spring training and lack of innings now that led him to getting into this funk with his mechanics.

I don't get that at all. Sale is likely going to get crushed in New York and then you'll probably have to DL him just to let him clear his head.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Apparently, Sale needs even more rest and is having his next start pushed back to Tuesday against the Yankees. Yeah, that's a great idea, put a pitcher out there who's never been more lost in New York against that lineup. And that's besides the fact that extra days of rest aren't helpful for the starters right now; their issue is lack of reps in spring training and lack of innings now that led him to getting into this funk with his mechanics.

I don't get that at all. Sale is likely going to get crushed in New York and then you'll probably have to DL him just to let him clear his head.
Because the other starters in the rotation are better options with the way they're going right now? Seems more like a vote of confidence that they want the ace to pitch against the Yankees rather than the AAAA Orioles at 11 in the morning, even if he's had some struggles so far.
 

DirtyWater90

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Because the other starters in the rotation are better options with the way they're going right now? Seems more like a vote of confidence that they want the ace to pitch against the Yankees rather than the AAAA Orioles at 11 in the morning, even if he's had some struggles so far.
Yeah, maybe, but it has a high probability of backfiring just like everything else this year so far. I mean Sale struggled immensely with the pathetic Toronto lineup, hard to be remotely optimistic he'll have success in New York. And I don't care about his career numbers there, that was a different pitcher; the last time Sale was in New York, he was throwing 100 mph fastballs with a devastating biting slider.
 

DirtyWater90

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This is not how baseball works.
I just don't think now is a good time for Sale to be facing that team. If they crush him, it's only going to set himself back even more, confidence wise. Would rather he work out his issues against weak teams like Baltimore, but that's just me.
 

Plympton91

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They are holding Sale back because he needs an extra day of rest. No matter what happy talk they put out there about it, there is no other rational interpretation than to conclude that they appear to have given a $145 million extension to a pitcher with an injured shoulder.
 

SouthernBoSox

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If Chris Sale was hurt. He would not be pitching. Pretending they are trying to mask some injury, it's ridiculous.

His velocity was substantially higher, perfectly in line with April starts from previous years. He was killed by bullshit groundball singles.

Core has said that they picked up mechanical issues on his slider.

If he was hurt. They wouldn't push him back, they would put him on the IL.
 
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It's quite possible that Monday's weather forecast (which calls for thunderstorms and a 100% chance of rain) has everything to do with pushing Sale's start back to Tuesday.

Sorry to rain on the conspiracy theory parade...NOT!!!
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
10,519
Maine
It's quite possible that Monday's weather forecast (which calls for thunderstorms and a 100% chance of rain) has everything to do with pushing Sale's start back to Tuesday.

Sorry to rain on the conspiracy theory parade...NOT!!!
Great call. In fact, I thought I remembered that Cora did something similar last year for Patriots Day as well, inserting Brian Johnson into that slot. And google says I remembered correctly and that it was Price that was pushed back that time. That game was rained out, so maybe the forecast prompted the change then too. Hmmm, maybe this Cora guy knows what he's doing. He might be a keeper.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,450
Deep inside Muppet Labs
I just deleted a bunch of posts (including one of mine) that were just pointless bickering and distracting from the thread. We all know it, we need to both stop posting troll stuff and stop responding to obvious troll stuff. Me included.

Let's keep the discussion on Sale, thanks.
 

DirtyWater90

Research Assistant
Nov 26, 2018
110
He has exactly zero starts in his career that fit that definition. In that time frame, there have been 750 starts that do fit the criteria.
I’m sure there were numerous times where he was at that pitch count through 6 where he went on to pitch 7+.
 

effectivelywild

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
230
Oddly enough, one of the things that is easing some of my concern about Sale so far this year is that basically ALL of our starters have been butt. I definitely understand why they altered the Spring Training regimen for our pitchers after their postseason workload, but whatever their plan was...it seems to have left most of our rotation totally unprepared to begin the season.
 

absintheofmalaise

too many flowers
Dope
SoSH Member
Mar 16, 2005
12,824
The gran facenda
I’m sure there were numerous times where he was at that pitch count through 6 where he went on to pitch 7+.
Instead of guessing look it up and then post the link. If you aren't going to make the effort, don't bother.

He has exactly zero starts in his career that fit that definition. In that time frame, there have been 750 starts that do fit the criteria.
Link please.