EvilEmpire said:
Well, because it is a shitty culture. It involves treating people badly to make them tougher, stronger, more team oriented, or whatever. Just because that culture produces what teams desire doesn't make it a nice process full of everything right and proper.
First, thank you for your previous post. Interesting and relevant. I also hope GF09 and MBHB will chime in on the subject as well.
Second, I keep seeing this idea that it is necessary to treat people badly to create (to use CStinehart's phrase) "monsters". And I think it's complete bullshit. Marc Trestman's thoughts (linked up thread in the Michael C. Wright piece for ESPNChicago) on the matter would seem to contradict this line of thinking. I'm no Pete Carroll fan, but I cannot imagine that his coaching style includes encouraging his players to "embrace the dark side" and to treat others as sub-human.
The fact is that while some coaches and programs use bullying and intimidation to create "monsters", others use different methods that are are arguably as successful. As EE points out, the creation of actual warriors does not require hazing or bullying - in fact, as he jokingly refers, the Marines ban the use of such techniques and no one is questioning the toughness or ability of Marines to "bring it".
There is no necessity to have bullying as part of the NFL culture. I disagree vehemently with CSteinhart's conclusions, in that they seem to endorse this idea that to be successful in the NFL, you have to be a "monster". I disagree that in order to become an NFL player, one has to endure or embrace this (what Rev properly termed) Culture of Shittiness. Marc Trestman doesn't think so. Brandon Marshall doesn't think so. London Fletcher doesn't think so. Mike Shanahan (another coach who has explicitly banned hazing/bullying) doesn't think so. I would wager that many players throughout the NFL's history will eventually come out and say that this Culture of Shittiness is not necessary for NFL success. It's not some prerequisite that must be fulfilled on the way to a successful team or career.
It is a misguided attempt to justify bad behavior. It is a ham-handed and tone-deaf appeal to "the way things have been done before". And as the quote from Charles Napier (which was awesome, by the way) shows, some behaviors - no matter how ingrained in the culture - need to change. It is simply not enough to say that because it has been done this way, this is the ONLY way it can be done. That is patently false. Team camaraderie can be fostered through means other than bullying. Toughness can be demanded without humiliation and or the threat of physical violence. Men can become men without needing to hurt other people to "prove" their manliness. Players can "bring it" on the field and be human beings with feelings off of it.
To say otherwise really shows a lack of faith in our fellow human beings. To treat people shittily is to lose some of your own humanity. There is a cost, a spiritual cost, to treating people poorly. It wears on your soul. You don't have to hate your opponent to compete against him. You don't have to sacrifice your basic humanity to be an NFL player and you don't have to threaten to shit in someone's mouth to get them to buy into the team concept. You certainly don't have to threaten to kill someone to motivate them or to demand more effort from them.
To me, this scandal is fundamentally about how people treat other people and as has been pointed out multiple times, it's really about much more than an NFL locker room. That the US Army and the US Marines can train actual warriors without bullying recruits is more proof that it isn't necessary to bully NFL rookies for them to "get it". That Mike Shanahan and Marc Trestman can get their teams to bond, to work together, to respect each other and to get the best out of one another without resorting to bullying really should give the "but it's the NFL culture!" people pause.
