Rondo is the new captain

[The X Man Cometh]

They don't shoot well enough to play slowdown basketball. As CreightonGumbanich points out, the don't have guys who can create their own shots. It's a roster much more suited to D"Antoni ball. Shoot quickly to maximize the number of offensive possessions.

 
Taking out Crawford and Lee really neutered the team in ways that the stat sheet doesn't show imo. They brought a lot of energy. Crawford was comfortable pushing the ball and was the closest thing we have to someone who can break down defenses with penetration. Lee was always sprinting up the court and leaking out on the break to get things moving.

 

[allstonite]

 
The Pacers have a roster suited to playing in the half-court. The Celtics are playing at a pace which is completely incompatible with their roster.

Trying to win with this team in the half court is basically emphasizing player development over winning games.

 
What makes this team suited to run? Rondo when healthy and maybe Bradley when healthy would be the start of a good running team. Beyond that Green is no faster than average for a wing player, Bass is slow, Humphries is slower, Sullinger is lumbering, Wallace can't really run anymore. This isn't a particularly athletic team especially compared to the "new NBA" filled with stretch 4's and like 3 pure centers. Add the player development angle and I'm sure they want Stevens drawing up sets and seeing what he has and I think they are playing it perfect for the way they're built. They're not losing because they're not running. They're losing because they aren't that good

 

[Koufax]

 
Taking out Crawford and Lee really neutered the team in ways that the stat sheet doesn't show imo. They brought a lot of energy. Crawford was comfortable pushing the ball and was the closest thing we have to someone who can break down defenses with penetration. Lee was always sprinting up the court and leaking out on the break to get things moving.

If this wasn't a tank move by Danny I don't know what it was.  The only hope of that trade turning into anything valuable is if the 76ers climb out of the lottery next year, in which case we get their first round pick.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

 
What makes this team suited to run? Rondo when healthy and maybe Bradley when healthy would be the start of a good running team. Beyond that Green is no faster than average for a wing player, Bass is slow, Humphries is slower, Sullinger is lumbering, Wallace can't really run anymore. This isn't a particularly athletic team especially compared to the "new NBA" filled with stretch 4's and like 3 pure centers. Add the player development angle and I'm sure they want Stevens drawing up sets and seeing what he has and I think they are playing it perfect for the way they're built. They're not losing because they're not running. They're losing because they aren't that good

 
Green is an excellent player to "run with". He's faster than a power forward and bigger than a small forward. If he gets the ball in transition he's either fouled or elevates over a defender and gets a bunny. Lee was great in transition.
 
They're losing because they aren't good. But if they pushed the pace on teams that aren't looking for a dogfight with one of the worst teams in the NBA, they'd get more looks and improve their chances. One example of a guy who was a beneficiary earlier in the season of more aggressive play is Bass. Pushing the ball down the court got him his look at the elbow frequently while the defense wasn't set. In the half court, he isn't getting that look as often.
 
Trading Lee and Crawford was definitely done for nefarious "basketball reasons". Given the talent or lack thereof on the roster, and especially the prospect of Rondo never being back, I'm okay with that.

 

[CreightonGubanich]

 
The Pacers have a roster suited to playing in the half-court. The Celtics are playing at a pace which is completely incompatible with their roster.

Trying to win with this team in the half court is basically emphasizing player development over winning games.

 
I don't disagree with you, but I think that's exactly what they should be doing. Why teach the team bad habits for the slim chance of slipping into an eight seed? Even if you'd like the Celtics to be a running team when they eventually are competitive again, you still need to be able to execute in the half court. That means Jared Sullinger needs to be refining his post game and learning how to pass out of double teams. It means Kelly Olynyk needs to learn how to execute a pick and pop play. It means Avery Bradley needs to learn how to come off screens, catch, and shoot. 
 
This shouldn't be a tanking year, but it absolutely should be a development year. Stevens has one job - to find out what assets the team has and develop them, either for a trade or as future building blocks. Everything else is superfluous.

 

[wutang112878]

 
They're losing because they aren't good. But if they pushed the pace on teams that aren't looking for a dogfight with one of the worst teams in the NBA, they'd get more looks and improve their chances. One example of a guy who was a beneficiary earlier in the season of more aggressive play is Bass. Pushing the ball down the court got him his look at the elbow frequently while the defense wasn't set. In the half court, he isn't getting that look as often.

 
Checkout my math here, you have to add 6 fastbreak shots a game and double your efficiency just to shoot as well as your opponent.  If you want to add semi-fastbreak possessions we can change the math but we also have to decrease the assumed double in offensive efficiency.  The point of the math is that Stevens is fighting a losing battle and has no chance to win.  So if you think he is trying to develop over winning then I would say you might as well at least do something productive if you are destined to lose horribly anyway.

 

[ifmanis5]

No one on this board should be complaining about the Celtics being bad this year. They're SUPPOSED to be bad. It helps them in the long run. Enjoy the ride to a stud player in the spring and re-evaluate things for real NEXT fall when the stakes are completely different.

 

[Koufax]

No one on this board should be complaining about the Celtics being bad this year. They're SUPPOSED to be bad. It helps them in the long run. Enjoy the ride to a stud player in the spring and re-evaluate things for real NEXT fall when the stakes are completely different.

I hit my head against a wall earlier trying to find an example of a team that won a championship without the benefit of a high lottery pick.  I wanted to believe in Brickowski's theory that you should always try to win.  I simply could not find an example.  The closest I came was the Stockton-Malone Jazz, but alas they never won it all even though they were very very good.  So once Jordan Crawford went back to being the Bad Jordan Crawford and the team started to lose in a big way, I changed my spots.  I was rooting for the 76ers to win last night and was very happy to see that buzzer-beater go in.

 

[wutang112878]

Your best examples are teams who got undervalued lottery picks players.  So say your Kobe/Gasol Lakers where they traded for Gasol and got Kobe late in the draft.  Or your 03/04 Pistons who traded for Billups and Sheed, and while Hamilton was a high pick he didnt deserve to be.  But yeah its virtually impossible to find a group of guys picked in the 20s that can win a title.

 

[nighthob]

Your best examples are teams who got undervalued lottery picks players.  So say your Kobe/Gasol Lakers where they traded for Gasol and got Kobe late in the draft.  Or your 03/04 Pistons who traded for Billups and Sheed, and while Hamilton was a high pick he didnt deserve to be.  But yeah its virtually impossible to find a group of guys picked in the 20s that can win a title.

The Lakers didn't get Kobe "late in the draft" they traded for a lottery pick to get him. And he went late in the lottery due to signability fears at the dawn of the "highschoolers entering the draft" age in the 90s (yes they did it in the ABA during the 70s, but there was a 20 year interregnum after the merger). If he didn't make such a fuss about refusing to sign he would have gone somewhere in the 4-8 range.

 

[Brickowski]

If you can trade a promising rookie and some flotsam for two HOF veterans, as the Celtics did in 2007, you can go from last to first. But that was a unique situation. In the vast majority of cases, if you want to contend, you need to go from bad to around 45 wins first. Then you had a key piece or two, get lucky with picks in the teens or 20's, and become a 50+ win team.

Tanking usually solves nothing unless there is a generational player like Duncan or LeBron in that year's draft, and even then it's only 25% to get the top pick even if you have the worst record in the league. Having said that, IMHO the Celtics should definitely tank for the rest of this year. That's because Jeff Green's play and Rondo's play (so far) has been so disappointing. I thought they might have 3-4 pieces worth developing. Now I see only Sullinger. Maybe there's a 5-10% chance for Olynick (big men usually take longer to develop), and a very outside chance for Chris Johnson, who reminds me a little of Bruce Bowen. Everyone else should be traded for whatever they can get in the way of prospects and picks-- and obviously I'd trade Olynick or Johnson too if I could get a fair return.

I'm recanting and joining the tank brigade.

 

[Koufax]

You put up a gallant fight, Brick.  You had me on your team for awhile until the futility of it all became apparent.

 

[nighthob]

If you can trade a promising rookie and some flotsam for two HOF veterans, as the Celtics did in 2007, you can go from last to first. But that was a unique situation. In the vast majority of cases, if you want to contend, you need to go from bad to around 45 wins first. Then you had a key piece or two, get lucky with picks in the teens or 20's, and become a 50+ win team.

Tanking usually solves nothing unless there is a generational player like Duncan or LeBron in that year's draft, and even then it's only 25% to get the top pick even if you have the worst record in the league. Having said that, IMHO the Celtics should definitely tank for the rest of this year. That's because Jeff Green's play and Rondo's play (so far) has been so disappointing. I thought they might have 3-4 pieces worth developing. Now I see only Sullinger. Maybe there's a 5-10% chance for Olynick (big men usually take longer to develop), and a very outside chance for Chris Johnson, who reminds me a little of Bruce Bowen. Everyone else should be traded for whatever they can get in the way of prospects and picks-- and obviously I'd trade Olynick or Johnson too if I could get a fair return.

You really can't contend without a top ten player or (like the 2004-2008 Pistons) a bunch of top 20 ones. Those don't develop by magic. And your odds of finding those guys increase the higher you draft; unless you're picking from an under-exploited source of players, like high schoolers or European players in the 1995-2005 era. Unfortunately those sources are gone. Which means maybe you can find that guy in China, assuming that he exists there, their national program might not be advanced enough yet to produce them.

 

[Brickowski]

Portland had one very high pick (Aldridge) but look at the rest of the roster. Lillard was drafted at #6. Batum was picked at #25 and acquired for virtually nothing. Wesley Johnson was a walk on. We could go down Indiana's roster and do a similar analysis.

It's not the "top ten" player that puts you into contention. It's the players picked later who turn out to be much better than expected that put you over: the Serge Ibakas of the world.

 

[Stitch01]

The top ten player is a (close to) necessary but not sufficient condition to be a real contender.  Picking high gives you the best chance to get that top ten player so you can then build around them and become a contender.

 

[Koufax]

If you can trade a promising rookie and some flotsam for two HOF veterans, as the Celtics did in 2007, you can go from last to first. But that was a unique situation. In the vast majority of cases, if you want to contend, you need to go from bad to around 45 wins first. Then you had a key piece or two, get lucky with picks in the teens or 20's, and become a 50+ win team.
 

 
Bear in mind that the Celtics traded away the #5 pick to get Ray Allen.  They got that pick by being terrible.  So the #17 banner is the result of tankage.

 

[nighthob]

Portland had one very high pick (Aldridge) but look at the rest of the roster. Lillard was drafted at #6. Batum was picked at #25 and acquired for virtually nothing. Wesley Johnson was a walk on. We could go down Indiana's roster and do a similar analysis.

It's not the "top ten" player that puts you into contention. It's the players picked later who turn out to be much better than expected that put you over: the Serge Ibakas of the world.

I'm not certain in what universe the #6 pick isn't a high draft pick, but I'm pretty sure it's not this one. If you can find a team to gift you a high first round pick for your rapidly declining roleplayer, you certainly go that route. But Portland is built around two all stars each drafted at the top of the first round, and then a bunch of rleplayers. And, yes, you can always find roleplayers. But the stars are the important part, and Portland got those at the top of the first round.

 

[radsoxfan]

Portland had one very high pick (Aldridge) but look at the rest of the roster. Lillard was drafted at #6. Batum was picked at #25 and acquired for virtually nothing. Wesley Johnson was a walk on. We could go down Indiana's roster and do a similar analysis.

It's not the "top ten" player that puts you into contention. It's the players picked later who turn out to be much better than expected that put you over: the Serge Ibakas of the world.

 
Have to agree with others that a #6 pick is pretty high.  The Blazers have 2 high picks leading their team, as do many of the best teams in the NBA.  You may find a few teams out there to support your argument, but that's not a great example. Also, I assume you mean Wesley Matthews, not Wesley Johnson.
 
To continue the nitpick from other posts.... it's Kelly Olynyk, not Kelly Olynick. No "i", No "c", 2 "y"s.  Not a big deal, but since you are 0 for 500 in spelling his name, figured you could use a heads up (unless it's on purpose?). I know he is awful, and will likely be playing in Europe in 2 years, but he still deserves home team internet message board respect!

 

[Brickowski]

I can't spell "Adetukuonbo" either.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

Portland had one very high pick (Aldridge) but look at the rest of the roster. Lillard was drafted at #6. Batum was picked at #25 and acquired for virtually nothing. Wesley Johnson was a walk on. We could go down Indiana's roster and do a similar analysis.

It's not the "top ten" player that puts you into contention. It's the players picked later who turn out to be much better than expected that put you over: the Serge Ibakas of the world.

 
Batum was an international though. Internationals fall all the time. Just like the Spurs with Ginobili. And Wes Matthews wasn't drafted by Portland.
 
Indy signed West in FA, drafted Hibbert at 17, drafted Stephenson in the 2nd (big steal), drafted George at one of those 7-12 picks (I forget which). Traded pick 13 or 14 (forget again) for George Hill. Traded Plumlee for Scola. That's as good as you realistically do with late picks and even then their "steal 1st option" in George was a lottery pick still.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

 
Checkout my math here, you have to add 6 fastbreak shots a game and double your efficiency just to shoot as well as your opponent.  If you want to add semi-fastbreak possessions we can change the math but we also have to decrease the assumed double in offensive efficiency.  The point of the math is that Stevens is fighting a losing battle and has no chance to win.  So if you think he is trying to develop over winning then I would say you might as well at least do something productive if you are destined to lose horribly anyway.

 
I like this. Thanks for sharing Killa bee.
 
 

I can't spell "Adetukuonbo" either.

 
I have a feeling we're going to really regret missing on him. He might never be great (looks like an Iguodala or Batum type player) but his style of play (passing, shot alterning, handles the ball and creates offense) is so fun to watch. Would have been cool to watch him in our shade of green.

 

[nighthob]

Batum was an international though. Internationals fall all the time. Just like the Spurs with Ginobili.

The days of internationals falling because they're internationals is past. Batum is, honestly, an average NBA player. Back in his draft eligible days he was skinnier than Wiggins and didn't look nearly quick enough to be anything but a SF. Can you dig up average players late in the first round? Yes. And you unquestionably need guys like that to fill out the roster. But he ain't the steak in that entree. That's the two high first round picks.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

The days of internationals falling because they're internationals is past. Batum is, honestly, an average NBA player. Back in his draft eligible days he was skinnier than Wiggins and didn't look nearly quick enough to be anything but a SF. Can you dig up average players late in the first round? Yes. And you unquestionably need guys like that to fill out the roster. But he ain't the steak in that entree. That's the two high first round picks.

 
Batum isn't average. He's an suffocating defender and one of the bests passers in the league, and can shoot the 3 fairly well.
 
To put his passing skills in perspective with Player Tracking. He has the ball in his hands for an average of 1 minute 6 seconds a game. Throws 5.7 assists. Averages an assist per 11 seconds of time with the ball in his hands.
 
I'll take "non scorers" like Iggy or Batum who impact the game in every other way imaginable over whichever chucker guard flavor of the week the media is crowing about.

 

[Brickowski]

The top ten player is a (close to) necessary but not sufficient condition to be a real contender.  Picking high gives you the best chance to get that top ten player so you can then build around them and become a contender.

Or a guy you steal later in the lottery who should have been a top 5 pick, e.g. Kobe Bryant or Paul George.

 

[nighthob]

Batum isn't average. He's an suffocating defender and one of the bests passers in the league, and can shoot the 3 fairly well.
 
To put his passing skills in perspective with Player Tracking. He has the ball in his hands for an average of 1 minute 6 seconds a game. Throws 5.7 assists. Averages an assist per 11 seconds of time with the ball in his hands.
 
I'll take "non scorers" like Iggy or Batum who impact the game in every other way imaginable over whichever chucker guard flavor of the week the media is crowing about.

For a "smothering defender" the guys he's covering seem to score an awful lot of points at above average efficiency. And for "one of the best passers in the league" nearly all of his assists are of the Delonte West variety (i.e. the next guy down the line standing behind the three point arc). He's a nice player. But he's just one of the other guys on the floor. If you want to call him a crack whore's Andre Iguodala I won't argue. Because AI's a good comp for him. He's not nearly the playmaker, not nearly the defender, nor even as good a shooter (though I'll grant that in Iggy's case this is a function of playing on a team with so much firepower that he gets to be an "other guy on the floor" too). But, yeah, you can always find guys like that. But without the stars at the top of the roster the roleplayers aren't leading you to glory.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

For a "smothering defender" the guys he's covering seem to score an awful lot of points at above average efficiency. And for "one of the best passers in the league" nearly all of his assists are of the Delonte West variety (i.e. the next guy down the line standing behind the three point arc). He's a nice player. But he's just one of the other guys on the floor. If you want to call him a crack whore's Andre Iguodala I won't argue. Because AI's a good comp for him. He's not nearly the playmaker, not nearly the defender, nor even as good a shooter (though I'll grant that in Iggy's case this is a function of playing on a team with so much firepower that he gets to be an "other guy on the floor" too). But, yeah, you can always find guys like that. But without the stars at the top of the roster the roleplayers aren't leading you to glory.

 
Yeah, well a poor man's Iggy is a complement. I'd take Iggy over any wing not named LeBron, Durant, or Paul George. He's one of my favorite NBA players.

 

[nighthob]

Yeah, but there's a much longer list of guys I'm taking over Batum.

 

[wutang112878]

 
Yeah, well a poor man's Iggy is a complement. I'd take Iggy over any wing not named LeBron, Durant, or Paul George. He's one of my favorite NBA players.

 
Woah, do tell why.  Do you think he is that good or you like his style?  Because sure defensively he is something to watch, but offensively he just cant create for himself which isnt really impressive.

 

[bowiac]

 
Woah, do tell why.  Do you think he is that good or you like his style?  Because sure defensively he is something to watch, but offensively he just cant create for himself which isnt really impressive.

Because defense is half the game, and his 3 point shooting, ball handling, and passing ability make him pretty valuable on the offensive end, even if he can't create his own shot. 
 
There are probably 10 guys in the game I'd take ahead of Iggy. There probably aren't 25. He's somewhere in that range. Besides those 3, I can think of a few guys in his league (Kawhi Leonard, Wes Matthews, Lance Stephenson?), but I can't think of someone clearly ahead of him. 

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Woah u think iggy is top 25? No chance. He kills spacing. Its covered up by curry and klay and barnes but hes a space butcher. Fits for GS and i like his game but id be hard pressed to call.him a top 50 guy let alone top 25

 

[wutang112878]

Because defense is half the game, and his 3 point shooting, ball handling, and passing ability make him pretty valuable on the offensive end, even if he can't create his own shot. 
 
There are probably 10 guys in the game I'd take ahead of Iggy. There probably aren't 25. He's somewhere in that range. Besides those 3, I can think of a few guys in his league (Kawhi Leonard, Wes Matthews, Lance Stephenson?), but I can't think of someone clearly ahead of him. 

 
 
I was going to critique Iggy, but then I looked at his contract and at $12M you can pair him with an offensive superstar (Curry) and make it work.  Having said that, if I am picking a top 25 guy to be the alpha dog on my team, Iggy isnt on my list.  I'd want a superstar who offensively can create and get me calls so I can close out games.  In close out scenarios, even though Iggy's defense is great having a balanced offense/defense star is going to be more valuable because your superstars get you your calls.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

Because defense is half the game, and his 3 point shooting, ball handling, and passing ability make him pretty valuable on the offensive end, even if he can't create his own shot. 
 
There are probably 10 guys in the game I'd take ahead of Iggy. There probably aren't 25. He's somewhere in that range. Besides those 3, I can think of a few guys in his league (Kawhi Leonard, Wes Matthews, Lance Stephenson?), but I can't think of someone clearly ahead of him. 

 
Bingo. Iggy slashes and finds teammates, and is an efficient offensive player without having to take many shots. AND he plays monster defense.
 
Give me a great Robin. I'll take that over a subpar Batman any day of the week.

 

[NWsoxophile]

For a "smothering defender" the guys he's covering seem to score an awful lot of points at above average efficiency. And for "one of the best passers in the league" nearly all of his assists are of the Delonte West variety (i.e. the next guy down the line standing behind the three point arc). He's a nice player. But he's just one of the other guys on the floor. If you want to call him a crack whore's Andre Iguodala I won't argue. Because AI's a good comp for him. He's not nearly the playmaker, not nearly the defender, nor even as good a shooter (though I'll grant that in Iggy's case this is a function of playing on a team with so much firepower that he gets to be an "other guy on the floor" too). But, yeah, you can always find guys like that. But without the stars at the top of the roster the roleplayers aren't leading you to glory.

Batum is 2nd in the league in assists among forwards, behind only Lebron. Having watched every Portland game this season, I can say that your description of how he gets those assists (the Delonte West variety) is basically just a creation of your own based on I don't know what. You're completely off. Batum is not an all star, but he is well above average and a valuable member of one of the best teams in the western conference.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Bingo. Iggy slashes and finds teammates, and is an efficient offensive player without having to take many shots. AND he plays monster defense.
 
Give me a great Robin. I'll take that over a subpar Batman any day of the week.

A great robin doesnt win u a title tho. Subpar batmans are overrated but that doesnt make iggy top 25 at 12mil per season. And i am a fan of his game.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Batum is 2nd in the league in assists among forwards, behind only Lebron. Having watched every Portland game this season, I can tell say that your description of how he gets those assists (the Donte West variety) is basically just a creation of your own based on I don't know what. You're completely off. Batum is not an all star, but he is well above average and a valuable member of one of the best teams in the western conference.

Ya Batum is far from a JAG. Farrr from it

 

[Blacken]

Batum is 2nd in the league in assists among forwards, behind only Lebron. Having watched every Portland game this season, I can say that your description of how he gets those assists (the Delonte West variety) is basically just a creation of your own based on I don't know what. You're completely off. Batum is not an all star, but he is well above average and a valuable member of one of the best teams in the western conference.

No kidding. The idea that Batum is a JAG is just terrible. He's a good perimeter scorer (though down this year), he finishes well at the hoop, and he can run the point in a pinch. Defensively he's one of the better small forwards, with a lot of length and good quickness for his size.

He's not a poor man's Iggy. He's better in a lot of ways. Not an All-Star, but there aren't many teams who'd pass on him if given the opportunity. I'd take James, Durant, Anthony, and George over him any day, for sure, but past that I have to really start thinking. And bear in mind, while his raw numbers aren't particularly impressive, he's doing it with a 16.6% usage rate. The lowest of any of those four is George at 26.5%.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

No kidding. The idea that Batum is a JAG is just terrible. He's a good perimeter scorer (though down this year), he finishes well at the hoop, and he can run the point in a pinch. Defensively he's one of the better small forwards, with a lot of length and good quickness for his size.

He's not a poor man's Iggy. He's better in a lot of ways. Not an All-Star, but there aren't many teams who'd pass on him if given the opportunity. I'd take James, Durant, Anthony, and George over him any day, for sure, but past that I have to really start thinking. And bear in mind, while his raw numbers aren't particularly impressive, he's doing it with a 16.6% usage rate. The lowest of any of those four is George at 26.5%.

 
I know I'd take him over anyone on this team right now....

 

[Devizier]

Being better than any of the Celtics is not much of an accomplishment.
 
Batum, however, is a very good supporting player. I think he gets overrated a little though (and Wes Matthews underrated).

 

[The X Man Cometh]

Being better than any of the Celtics is not much of an accomplishment.
 
Batum, however, is a very good supporting player. I think he gets overrated a little though (and Wes Matthews underrated).

 
It'd be interested to see if the guy who's a Blazers fan is about to flame me, but if there's anyone on the Blazers who is overrated to me, its LMA. Plays away from the basket so much. Doesn't add value on defense or as a passing big, wasn't that much of a rebounder in previous seasons, but it does look like he improved there.
 
I see Aldridge as a Chris Bosh type player. Takes a lot of lower-percentage shots, and makes them at a good clip because of his skill level. Still a hell of a player of course. But not the #1 option he is billed as, that carries teams. The Blazers to me are an '04 Pistons kind of team where everyone is a contributor, and the press will invariably give more credit to someone they can easily identify as a "star" and less to the rest. Good looking team.

 

[NWsoxophile]

 
 
It'd be interested to see if the guy who's a Blazers fan is about to flame me, but if there's anyone on the Blazers who is overrated to me, its LMA. Plays away from the basket so much. Doesn't add value on defense or as a passing big, wasn't that much of a rebounder in previous seasons, but it does look like he improved there.
 
I see Aldridge as a Chris Bosh type player. Takes a lot of lower-percentage shots, and makes them at a good clip because of his skill level. Still a hell of a player of course. But not the #1 option he is billed as, that carries teams. The Blazers to me are an '04 Pistons kind of team where everyone is a contributor, and the press will invariably give more credit to someone they can easily identify as a "star" and less to the rest. Good looking team.
 

Aldridge is getting the credit he deserves. He's 6th in the league in scoring, and 5th in rebounding. What does he need to be, 1st and 1st? To your points, he plays away from the basket simply because he has one of the best (if not the best) mid range games in the NBA, which makes the pick and pop a devastating play for the Blazer offense. However, he does play in the post far more than he is usually credited for, and is nearly as effective down low. He is actually an excellent passer out of the double team, runs the floor well, and is an %82 free throw shooter. While he is not a premier defender, he is in no way a defensive liability and defends both 5s and 4s without requiring the help of double teams. He has two 30-20 games this year, and three 20-20 games. On numerous occasions he has absolutely taken over games with a type of dominance that you don't see a lot of in the league. He is certainly the #1 option he is billed as and is making a clear transition from all star to superstar. Aldridge is the best 4 in the league this season.
There is an overrated Blazer right now, and that is Damian Lillard. He is a skilled and dynamic young point guard who has had some sick offensive outbursts and a knack for clutch shooting late in games. But it's hard to imagine there being a worse defensive guard starting for a team right now. He is nearly always incapable of keeping himself between his man and the hoop, and is consistently and embarrassingly abused on the pick and roll. He's truly terrible on the defensive end and the epitome of a one way player right now. He is in my view prematurely an all star for this reason. He keys so many defensive breakdowns for the Blazers and is the primary reason they are such a bad team defensively. They'll be lucky to get out of the 1st round if they don't improve to at least a mediocre team on that end of the court.

 

[MakMan44]

Aldridge is getting the credit he deserves. He's 6th in the league in scoring, and 5th in rebounding. What does he need to be, 1st and 1st? To your points, he plays away from the basket simply because he has one of the best (if not the best) mid range games in the NBA, which makes the pick and pop a devastating play for the Blazer offense. However, he does play in the post far more than he is usually credited for, and is nearly as effective down low. He is actually an excellent passer out of the double team, runs the floor well, and is an %82 free throw shooter. While he is not a premier defender, he is in no way a defensive liability and defends both 5s and 4s without requiring the help of double teams. He has two 30-20 games this year, and three 20-20 games. On numerous occasions he has absolutely taken over games with a type of dominance that you don't see a lot of in the league. He is certainly the #1 option he is billed as and is making a clear transition from all star to superstar. Aldridge is the best 4 in the league this season.

*cough*Kevin Love*cough*
 
Seriously though, Aldridge is a fantastic player and from the few games I've seen of him, not overrated at all. 

 

[NWsoxophile]

*cough*Kevin Love*cough*
 
Seriously though, Aldridge is a fantastic player and from the few games I've seen of him, not overrated at all. 

Sure, but it's a legitimate debate between Love and Aldridge. Love has a slight edge in some statistical categories, Aldridge has a slight edge in several others. Head to head over their careers they have been statistically a wash with a slight edge to LA.
 
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=aldrila01&p2=loveke01
 
What swings it for me is the winning-Aldridge's teams are 12-3 against Love's and obviously this year LA is leading a team competing for a top seed while the Wolves are fighting for a playoff spot.

 

[MakMan44]

I was talking about this season, over the course of their careers, Aldridge's probably been the better player but I think Love is the best PF in the game this year.
 
It's also a bit unfair to knock him on the playoff thing, Aldridge has a much better group of players. I'd take Pek over Robin Lopez and Martin vs Wesley Matthews is probably a wash but other than that, the Trailblazers have the superior players.

 

[Brickowski]

Robin Lopez many not be as good as Pekovic, but Lopez has been huge for the Blazers this year. He's like a poor man's Varejao. He hustles and does the dirty work, which takes a huge load off Aldridge.

 

[NWsoxophile]

I was talking about this season, over the course of their careers, Aldridge's probably been the better player but I think Love is the best PF in the game this year.
 
It's also a bit unfair to knock him on the playoff thing, Aldridge has a much better group of players. I'd take Pek over Robin Lopez and Martin vs Wesley Matthews is probably a wash but other than that, the Trailblazers have the superior players.

Even this year...the two are so close in nearly every statistical category that is seems fair to me to allow the success of the teams to be a consideration. Whomever anyone decides is having the better year between the two of them, the difference is neglible.

 

[NWsoxophile]

Robin Lopez many not be as good as Pekovic, but Lopez has been huge for the Blazers this year. He's like a poor man's Varejao. He hustles and does the dirty work, which takes a huge load off Aldridge.

Yep. Lopez has been fantastic. He has played his role to a tee. His presence has everything to do with Aldridge's emergence this year.

 

[The X Man Cometh]

Aldridge is getting the credit he deserves. He's 6th in the league in scoring, and 5th in rebounding. What does he need to be, 1st and 1st? To your points, he plays away from the basket simply because he has one of the best (if not the best) mid range games in the NBA, which makes the pick and pop a devastating play for the Blazer offense. However, he does play in the post far more than he is usually credited for, and is nearly as effective down low. He is actually an excellent passer out of the double team, runs the floor well, and is an %82 free throw shooter. While he is not a premier defender, he is in no way a defensive liability and defends both 5s and 4s without requiring the help of double teams. He has two 30-20 games this year, and three 20-20 games. On numerous occasions he has absolutely taken over games with a type of dominance that you don't see a lot of in the league. He is certainly the #1 option he is billed as and is making a clear transition from all star to superstar. Aldridge is the best 4 in the league this season.
There is an overrated Blazer right now, and that is Damian Lillard. He is a skilled and dynamic young point guard who has had some sick offensive outbursts and a knack for clutch shooting late in games. But it's hard to imagine there being a worse defensive guard starting for a team right now. He is nearly always incapable of keeping himself between his man and the hoop, and is consistently and embarrassingly abused on the pick and roll. He's truly terrible on the defensive end and the epitome of a one way player right now. He is in my view prematurely an all star for this reason. He keys so many defensive breakdowns for the Blazers and is the primary reason they are such a bad team defensively. They'll be lucky to get out of the 1st round if they don't improve to at least a mediocre team on that end of the court.

 
Cool to have the insight of someone who watches this team play 82 times instead of 4 or 5. Thanks. I can see the bit about Lillard. Would you peg his struggles as an inexperience and effort thing, or as a product of athletic limitations?
 
As for Love vs. Aldridge debate, I wouldn't want to touch Love with a 10-foot pole. Like Melo, he's damn good at putting the ball in the hoop, but the cost he commands far exceeds his real value. Rather have Aldridge, and I'd rather have Blake Griffin for that matter.

 

[NWsoxophile]

 
Cool to have the insight of someone who watches this team play 82 times instead of 4 or 5. Thanks. I can see the bit about Lillard. Would you peg his struggles as an inexperience and effort thing, or as a product of athletic limitations?
 
As for Love vs. Aldridge debate, I wouldn't want to touch Love with a 10-foot pole. Like Melo, he's damn good at putting the ball in the hoop, but the cost he commands far exceeds his real value. Rather have Aldridge, and I'd rather have Blake Griffin for that matter.

Hard to say about Lillard. It's definitely not for a lack of athleticism-he's quick, strong. and has great hops. He's also a smart kid and very competitive, so no again on it being an effort issue. He plays quite hard. My guess is it's a combination of experience and system. Coming from Weber St. I suspect he rarely encountered NBA quality offensive players, and given his very seasoned offensive skill set was never in a position of having to develop NBA level defensive technique or mentality in order to be selected high in the first round. Of course, young players rarely enter the league ready to defend.
Stotts' defensive schemes are dreck, and don't encourage very aggressive technique. The Blazers love to run the Mavs' help based scheme in which the guards over play the paint and show baseline. That the Blazer guards are constantly broken down off the dribble seems to be by design and so far has been totally ineffective. 
Love Stotts, but hiring a premium defensive assistant is top of the list for him this summer.

 

[Sprowl]

Rondo has sucked ever since the trading deadline. He has been at his brick-laying worst in March.

 

[wutang112878]

Prior to the break the team was shooting 43.7% from the field and 33.1% from 3   Post-break its been 41.4% / 30.2%   It also looks like he has been a little less 'active' as his rebounding is down, so maybe he sort of hit the wall with his injury comeback. 
 
I think we all figured his effectiveness would take a hit without the offensive talent, especially outside shooting, around him.  So with the team shooting getting worse, Rondo wearing down a little and then add in a shooting slump this doesnt seem too surprising.  This is just a wasted type season all around.