Romeo Langford - Pick #14

[JakeRae]

For his career so far, Langford is shooting 0.317 from three (including regular season and playoffs). But that was in only 82 shots and includes a 6 for 29 rookie year. Thus far this year he is at a non-sustainable 0.500 from three.

If he actually has (or develops) a decent 3 point shot, then he easily clears the "3&D" bar - the D is there already. That would set his NBA floor at "long career as a rotation player." If he doesn't actually have a decent 3 - and he hasn't shot enough for us to know for sure either way - then his floor is somewher between end of rotation player and "irregular minutes guy." But we are still talking about his floor.

He still has less than 1,000 NBA minutes and was drafted as a guy with offensive potential that he occasionaly flashes. So what the ceiling is is harder to say at this point.

I agree with this generally, but think people are unduly pessimistic about his improved shooting. His shot is significantly improved. That’s not because he’s making them, that’s because his mechanics look consistent, his release is cleaner, etc. It’s even improved over summer league where it looked better than before but the arc was flatter than ideal. I don’t think any of us know if Romeo is a good 3 point shooter. He could lose his improved mechanics. He could end up a 35% shooter or a 40% shooter. But I’m pretty confident he’s not a sub-.300 shooter like he was earlier in his career and I think anyone who has watched him shoot this year should agree.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Way too long a post /ramble.

Absolutely not. Great post.

Fwiw, I think that they did swing for the fences with Romeo and TL. Grant/KO are obvious floor guys. Nesmith, hard to saw whether DA saw his length and size as being a potential high end guy in an optimal outcome. IMO Danny/Brad is kind of aligned with you as far as ceiling goes. I think they fucked up at times in taking high floor guys just because they thought that were closer than we were. We went from knocking on the door of the finals to the playin game like overnight. Danny didn't foresee that. That's his mistake imo. Maybe they shoot the moon on a couple of other guys instead, knowing what was coming.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

What were the "nervous" signs with TL? I know there were questions about his mental makeup in regards to showing up on time. I think there was some talk about him being a stoner (who cares), and the quote from his sister, paraphrasing "The biggest danger to Rob's career is food." I never took the food thing seriously because he's always looked like a physical specimen but apparently it is/was: https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2019/11/21/celtics-robert-williams-diet/

That article is 2 years old. I know there were arguments last year about Rob's defense and his health is always going to be a concern. Although with him playing 30+ mpg, I'm guessing it's a lot less of a concern than I envisioned it being. Like most, I had Rob/AL combined for 48 minutes. I figured Kanter would play roughly 10-12 minutes a night. Instead, TL and AL are playing 60 minutes and Kanter isn't playing. TL has lost some effectiveness going from a 19 minute player to a 31 minute one but has held up for the most part.

His Rebound % is at a career low 15.0% (18.8% career heading into year).
His block % is at a career low 5.5% (9.2% ^ )
His assist % is at 6.0%. It was 10.2% 2 years and and 14.2% last year.

On the positive side
His TO% is at a career low 12.9% (15.6% ^ )


You would expect a drop in block %. I'd have expected the rebound rate to go up with TT gone but 15.0% isn't terrible and the entire drop is in defensive rebounds. 24.4% career to 16.7% this year. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict he'll bounce back to a 10-15% assist rate but some of that may be impacted by Al Horford too. I think Al is benefiting greatly from the presence of TL too, and while some of it is SSS, his current block % is 8.1%. His career high is 3.9% and for his career, he's at 2.9%. That may also explain some of the drop in TL block %, not all of his drop off is due to a minutes bump. Al's DREB% is currently at 28.5%, his career % is 21.4% and his career high was 25.0% in his 2nd year.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I agree with this generally, but think people are unduly pessimistic about his improved shooting. His shot is significantly improved. That’s not because he’s making them, that’s because his mechanics look consistent, his release is cleaner, etc. It’s even improved over summer league where it looked better than before but the arc was flatter than ideal. I don’t think any of us know if Romeo is a good 3 point shooter. He could lose his improved mechanics. He could end up a 35% shooter or a 40% shooter. But I’m pretty confident he’s not a sub-.300 shooter like he was earlier in his career and I think anyone who has watched him shoot this year should agree.

I’ve been saying this since the summer when he arrived with reworked mechanics along with the confidence to take/make them and obviously nothing we’ve seen during the regular season would lead me to believe otherwise. It’s incomprehensible to me to read how he can’t shoot but maybe one day he’ll learn……I mean is anyone watching without bias? I wasn’t even a fan of Romeo until last season when he began making leaps and now his next one is being shunned aside as if it’s nothing. Weird.

If Romeo and Aaron had changed jerseys in July and nobody knew this the board would be comparing AN to Ray Allen while ready to ship RL to Maine.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I agree with this generally, but think people are unduly pessimistic about his improved shooting. His shot is significantly improved. That’s not because he’s making them, that’s because his mechanics look consistent, his release is cleaner, etc. It’s even improved over summer league where it looked better than before but the arc was flatter than ideal. I don’t think any of us know if Romeo is a good 3 point shooter. He could lose his improved mechanics. He could end up a 35% shooter or a 40% shooter. But I’m pretty confident he’s not a sub-.300 shooter like he was earlier in his career and I think anyone who has watched him shoot this year should agree.

I'm not pessimistic. I just think "he hasn't proven he can shoot" is an accurate thing to say about him.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Where am I saying that the Celtics are a great team? Their wing depth is just different and better. Say what you want about Semi, he would be in the right place on defense, which is obviously a priority to Brad (and why Rui probably wouldn't beat out Semi last year in the same situation). I'm not sure what Carsen Edwards, Luke Kornet and Jeff Teague have to do with a competition for wing minutes, but keep banging your drum and ignoring context.

RE: Grant/Dray - there's an obvious difference between likelihood and hope. It's a folly to think that 99% of draft picks will become an all-star or all-NBA. I don't think it's likely that Grant becomes Draymond, but I hope, as a fan, that he becomes as good as he can possibly be... because that's the point of rooting for a team. You want to see good basketball played by good players. You want to see Grant become maybe 80% of Dray because that's the prototype for how an unathletic, short, strong, decent shooting power forward can make an impact in the league. You shouldn't expect him to do that, but that's what you're rooting for as a fan and it doesn't make you a homer to root for that. I'm not sure why you can't tell the difference between these two things when it seems like a self-explanatory distinction.

So many players are switchable nowadays that there's no real reason to ever play Carsen Edwards or Tremont Water, especially since both do their job terribly. I guess Waters at least as an argument. I get the positional argument when it comes to playing 30 minutes a game so maybe it would effect Rui, but I doubt it. The talent disparity is too big. At some point, you make it fit. They'd find minutes for him because he's worth developing.

 

[ManicCompression]

So many players are switchable nowadays that there's no real reason to ever play Carsen Edwards or Tremont Water, especially since both do their job terribly. I guess Waters at least as an argument. I get the positional argument when it comes to playing 30 minutes a game so maybe it would effect Rui, but I doubt it. The talent disparity is too big. At some point, you make it fit. They'd find minutes for him because he's worth developing.

Point guard is still an essential position in the NBA and with Kemba injured/a shell of himself, worse point guards got more burn. Yes, Carsen and Waters suck. I think PP is super limited and doesn't have much growth left. The Celtics attempts to address this weakness on the roster has been really bad (whether it's replacing Kemba or just having an adequate backup).

I'll be intrigued to see who gets a bigger second contract, Rui or Langford. If Langford shoots between 35-40% from 3 with really good defense on 20+ minutes a game, I'm not sure Rui's skill set is that much more in demand. The best comp for him (Kuzma) is already on the Wizards roster and he's making $13 million a year despite being a considerably more willing shooter from deep and improving as a defender. We'll see if Rui shows any growth this year because he didn't between years 1-2 despite getting 30 minutes a night.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I agree with this generally, but think people are unduly pessimistic about his improved shooting. His shot is significantly improved. That’s not because he’s making them, that’s because his mechanics look consistent, his release is cleaner, etc. It’s even improved over summer league where it looked better than before but the arc was flatter than ideal. I don’t think any of us know if Romeo is a good 3 point shooter. He could lose his improved mechanics. He could end up a 35% shooter or a 40% shooter. But I’m pretty confident he’s not a sub-.300 shooter like he was earlier in his career and I think anyone who has watched him shoot this year should agree.

Hard to be a sub .300 shooter, never mind .222. For me, it's less pessimism and more that I never thought he was as bad a shooter as his numbers going into the year (.353/.222/.750). He was 10/45 from 3. He is 9/18 atm and has raised his career 3 point % by 80 points. I very much question if he'll ever be more than a below average shooter but I didn't think sub .300 was in play. I was thinking he'd shoot around like .318 or in the .300-.330 range this year. The people waiting for a decent sample size (me) are going to be waiting awhile though, because if he continues at his current rate and plays 70 games this year, it's still only 180 3 pointers. He hasn't shot them with much volume to date, and is at 4.9 3PA/36, which is 11th on the team. Out of players who have actually attempted 3 pointers, only JRich is behind him.

 

[ManicCompression]

Hard to be a sub .300 shooter, never mind .222. For me, it's less pessimism and more that I never thought he was as bad a shooter as his numbers going into the year (.353/.222/.750). He was 10/45 from 3. He is 9/18 atm and has raised his career 3 point % by 80 points. I very much question if he'll ever be more than a below average shooter but I didn't think sub .300 was in play. I was thinking he'd shoot around like .318 or in the .300-.330 range this year. The people waiting for a decent sample size (me) are going to be waiting awhile though, because if he continues at his current rate and plays 70 games this year, it's still only 180 3 pointers. He hasn't shot them with much volume to date, and is at 4.9 3PA/36, which is 11th on the team. Out of players who have actually attempted 3 pointers, only JRich is behind him.

It's not like Romeo was a three star recruit with limited potential. He was Mr. Basketball in Indiana, was a first option in college, Mike Schmitz talked glowingly about his potential in the NBA due to his mix of skills. HIs worst trait coming out of the draft - defense - has been the thing that his coaches have most often cited as his strength. That's what people are looking at when they see his potential/upside as much more than what we're currently seeing. It's a long road with a ton of potholes before he touches any of it, but the baseline traits of body/athleticism/pedigree are pretty much all there. At some point, you have to look beyond the rate stats for a guy who gets spot minutes and project possible outcomes using more subjective inputs. If he can shoot - which is naturally a big if but by no means unachievable - he's basically exactly what you'd want in a starting/contributing two-guard who can switch multiple positions.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I'll be intrigued to see who gets a bigger second contract, Rui or Langford. If Langford shoots between 35-40% from 3 with really good defense on 20+ minutes a game, I'm not sure Rui's skill set is that much more in demand. The best comp for him (Kuzma) is already on the Wizards roster and he's making $13 million a year despite being a considerably more willing shooter from deep and improving as a defender. We'll see if Rui shows any growth this year because he didn't between years 1-2 despite getting 30 minutes a night.

If Langford is shooting 35-40% from 3 with any time of volume, he's going to get paid $$$. Especially if he's closer to the 40% mark. I'm not a buyer.

I think Rui is far more likely to develop into the 35-40% shooter than Langford. I think heading into the year, he was also the far more valuable commodity. He was drafted 5 spots ahead of Romeo. I don't remember if he was a huge reach or not. I'm not a college guy and evaluate players once they reach the NBA. Growth year over year is where it's at. You are right that Rui didn't show any from years 1 to 2 but Romeo didn't either, at least as far as rate % go, and I am heavily influenced by that, unless they come into the league at a Simmons/LaMelo level anyway. For better or worse, Romeo has the excuse of not playing. For better, he's 1 year, 8 months younger.

I'd take Rui over any player on their rookie contract outside of TL. Without Thomas Bryant in the discussion, I'm not shaking my head as much. It's closer to a toss up. I'd still take the Bulls pretty easily though. I think bigs are pretty replaceable and I like tall PGs, even if they don't have the best wingspan. White is still really young too. Add in Patrick Williams and it's not that hard a choice for me at all. I think my main issues with player development is that it's a given or expected our players will improve but dismiss that possibility with others team's players. You earlier said that Rui was a poor shooter and how would the C's play that coupled with his defensive issues. Then you talk about Langford shooting 35-40%. That's where the disconnect is. Rui went from a .287 shooter in year 1 to a .328 shooter in year 2. He's always been a decent FT shooter. He's also at 40.6% for his career from 10-16 and 41.9% from 16-3. Those are all things that suggest he'll improve from 3. They would play him with hopes he would continue to improve as a shooter, just like they stuck with Grant Williams.

I also realize it's only a few posters making the Grant/Draymond and PP/FVV comparisons, but they stick. I still remember talk around here about Jae Crowder being better than Paul George a few months after George's return from injury.

For the most part, this board is pretty fair with their takes on young players but then you get the argument that 19 is nearly 27.

 

[ManicCompression]

You earlier said that Rui was a poor shooter and how would the C's play that coupled with his defensive issues. Then you talk about Langford shooting 35-40%. That's where the disconnect is. Rui went from a .287 shooter in year 1 to a .328 shooter in year 2. He's always been a decent FT shooter. He's also at 40.6% for his career from 10-16 and 41.9% from 16-3. Those are all things that suggest he'll improve from 3.

Rui was not a willing 3 point shooter in college and in the NBA he's barely taking 2 a game despite playing a lot of minutes. It's not so much that he can't - most anyone can learn to shoot - it's the "will he" part that causes skepticism. If he continues to lean on mid-range jumpers and he doesn't shoot them at a Demar Derozan rate, that kind of a player (especially with his D) isn't really all that helpful in the modern NBA.

Of course it's subjective, but that's the fun of it. If both players stay healthy, I buy the player type that Romeo could be more than the one Rui could be. If Rui ups his D and starts bombing 6 threes a game at a 35-40% clip, I'll look really wrong. I just don't think it's likely those two things happen (especially considering that Kuzma - who duplicates everything he brings - is already there).

 

[Auger34]

I think it’s hard to make sweeping statements about Nesmith (good or bad) because he hasn’t been afforded the playing time to make any sort of sweeping statement. I’m firmly in his bandwagon because everyone says he’s a hard worker, he plays with a ton of energy, and he’s supposed to be a good shooter. Hopefully he can break through and earn Ime’s trust to play (unlikely since Ime seems to be Thibs light)

In regards to Romeo, Im pretty firmly in the middle oh him compared to the rest of the board. I think he has potential, don’t think he’s some fantastic player right now. The shot has been falling thus far this year but I’m pessimistic it’s for real. It’s still an ugly shot and the ball comes off way too flat. I am very bullish on his BBIQ and defense though

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Rui was not a willing 3 point shooter in college and in the NBA he's barely taking 2 a game despite playing a lot of minutes. It's not so much that he can't - most anyone can learn to shoot - it's the "will he" part that causes skepticism. If he continues to lean on mid-range jumpers and he doesn't shoot them at a Demar Derozan rate, that kind of a player (especially with his D) isn't really all that helpful in the modern NBA.

Of course it's subjective, but that's the fun of it. If both players stay healthy, I buy the player type that Romeo could be more than the one Rui could be. If Rui ups his D and starts bombing 6 threes a game at a 35-40% clip, I'll look really wrong. I just don't think it's likely those two things happen (especially considering that Kuzma - who duplicates everything he brings - is already there).

I just assumed the volume would come as he gets more comfortable shooting the 3. 16% of his shots were from 3 his rookie year, 21.1% his 2nd year. Went from 2.2 3PA/36 to 2.7 3PA/36. Those are definitely way too low but trending in the right direction. At least in that regard. He also took 7% more shots from 3ft-3 than the year prior, 12% less shots from 0-3. Not so good. Average shot distance went from 10.5 to 12.3. Oddly enough, his 2PFG% went up from .500 to .518.

 

[ManicCompression]

I just assumed the volume would come as he gets more comfortable shooting the 3. 16% of his shots were from 3 his rookie year, 21.1% his 2nd year. Went from 2.2 3PA/36 to 2.7 3PA/36. Those are definitely way too low but trending in the right direction. At least in that regard. He also took 7% more shots from 3ft-3 than the year prior, 12% less shots from 0-3. Not so good. Average shot distance went from 10.5 to 12.3. Oddly enough, his 2PFG% went up from .500 to .518.

Yeah, it's totally not outlandish for him to improve from that range. We'll see what happens when he returns. One of the most unique back stories in the NBA, so I hope it works out.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

It's not like Romeo was a three star recruit with limited potential. He was Mr. Basketball in Indiana, was a first option in college, Mike Schmitz talked glowingly about his potential in the NBA due to his mix of skills. HIs worst trait coming out of the draft - defense - has been the thing that his coaches have most often cited as his strength. That's what people are looking at when they see his potential/upside as much more than what we're currently seeing. It's a long road with a ton of potholes before he touches any of it, but the baseline traits of body/athleticism/pedigree are pretty much all there. At some point, you have to look beyond the rate stats for a guy who gets spot minutes and project possible outcomes using more subjective inputs. If he can shoot - which is naturally a big if but by no means unachievable - he's basically exactly what you'd want in a starting/contributing two-guard who can switch multiple positions.

Yeah, with regards to Romeo, I think he's played so few games in the NBA that we've forgotten how he used to play in college. I was looking for something else and found the below highlights from the MD game. I thought I read somewhere that RL lead the nation in finishing efficiency - and the announcers in the clip below say that he's the best finisher in college. Now he hasn't been able to finish in the NBA because guys are so much longer in college but that's part of the learning process and I think that if RL stays healthy, he'll figure that part out. Maybe he won't but again, I'm hopeful he will.

As for RL, it seems pretty simple to me. He's a rotation player with upside. If he stays healthy, he'll likely get a second contract. If he plays much better than he's playing now, he'll probably price himself out of BOS. If he doesn't play much better than he does now, maybe BOS brings him back on a team friendly deal as he'll still be rather young. And if he doesn't stay healthy, he could wash out of the league.

These highlights are fun to dream about though.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL5DDM1r1_Q

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I think it’s hard to make sweeping statements about Nesmith (good or bad) because he hasn’t been afforded the playing time to make any sort of sweeping statement. I’m firmly in his bandwagon because everyone says he’s a hard worker, he plays with a ton of energy, and he’s supposed to be a good shooter. Hopefully he can break through and earn Ime’s trust to play (unlikely since Ime seems to be Thibs light)

This is fair but at some point him not playing says everything. We aren't there yet. AN's lack of play is also for a much difference reason that RL. When RL has been healthy, he has been given minutes. AN hasn't made enough of an impression to get regular minutes. Also not working in Nesmith's favor is that there were a lot of players drafted after him already establishing themselves, and some on winning teams. There's a lot of talent that went post lottery. The 2019 draft, most of the talent went in the lottery with a handful of good players outside it.

 

[ManicCompression]

These highlights are fun to dream about though

It's kind of dumb, but I love the dunk at the ten second mark of this video. I'm not sure what % of 6'4 to 6'5 wings in the NBA could do a two handed standing dunk with no runway, but it's nice to know that Romeo is a part of that crowd. We get glimpses of the athleticism here and there, just wish it could be more consistently on display (especially when it comes to finishing in traffic).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-BKYeF5tE4

 

[Cesar Crespo]

It's kind of dumb, but I love the dunk at the ten second mark of this video. I'm not sure what % of 6'4 to 6'5 wings in the NBA could do a two handed standing dunk with no runway, but it's nice to know that Romeo is a part of that crowd. We get glimpses of the athleticism here and there, just wish it could be more consistently on display (especially when it comes to finishing in traffic).

At worst, Romeo is a decent NBA athlete with good length. I'll never understand the argument that he isn't an NBA athlete or doesn't have good size. I've read that a few times but I think it's only one poster with an outlier opinion.

6'4.5 w/o shoes, 6'11 wingspan, 8'7 or 8'8 standing reach. Of course, with those measurements I also never understood why the defense was in question. With that kind of length and athleticism, all you need is effort and the proper culture. As long as he's healthy, he's going to stick around for awhile with 0 improvement just because he can guard 1-4 with the exception of the quickest guards in the game that no one can guard anyway and maybe a few bigger 4/5 types. To date, effort has never been a problem and he has to know with all the questions around his health and his offense, the last thing he can afford to do is dog it on defense. So basically you have a guy with every incentive to play defense who has great measurables to play defense.

I can't wait for the 13th and 15th because I'm curious how the C's will match up with the Cavs. Too bad both games are on the road.

As for RL, it seems pretty simple to me. He's a rotation player with upside. If he stays healthy, he'll likely get a second contract. If he plays much better than he's playing now, he'll probably price himself out of BOS. If he doesn't play much better than he does now, maybe BOS brings him back on a team friendly deal as he'll still be rather young. And if he doesn't stay healthy, he could wash out of the league.

I just assumed he'd be gone regardless but I always forget about the possibility that he could stick around on really cheap money because there just isn't a lot of interest in him. What does this version of Romeo get in the open market? Well, this version but 2 years older? At 24, there's probably less ceiling.

 

[ManicCompression]

What does this version of Romeo get in the open market?

The Kris Dunn contract in Atlanta? A 1+1 somewhere between league minimum and MLE... presently, he's not very valuable, but I could see teams taking a flyer (Cleveland, for example, could really use a player like him in their backcourt).

 

[JakeRae]

At worst, Romeo is a decent NBA athlete with good length. I'll never understand the argument that he isn't an NBA athlete or doesn't have good size. I've read that a few times but I think it's only one poster with an outlier opinion.

6'4.5 w/o shoes, 6'11 wingspan, 8'7 or 8'8 standing reach. Of course, with those measurements I also never understood why the defense was in question. With that kind of length and athleticism, all you need is effort and the proper culture. As long as he's healthy, he's going to stick around for awhile with 0 improvement just because he can guard 1-4 with the exception of the quickest guards in the game that no one can guard anyway and maybe a few bigger 4/5 types. To date, effort has never been a problem and he has to know with all the questions around his health and his offense, the last thing he can afford to do is dog it on defense. So basically you have a guy with every incentive to play defense who has great measurables to play defense.

I can't wait for the 13th and 15th because I'm curious how the C's will match up with the Cavs. Too bad both games are on the road.




I just assumed he'd be gone regardless but I always forget about the possibility that he could stick around on really cheap money because there just isn't a lot of interest in him. What does this version of Romeo get in the open market? Well, this version but 2 years older? At 24, there's probably less ceiling.

I think there’s a good chance he signs a 4 year extension at around MLE money next offseason. He’ll probably be worth it and he has too much of an injury history to bet on his own upside. I say this from the perspective that he will have solidified himself as a good NBA rotation player with good starter potential by the end of this season.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Man if they are starting him and he doesn't win most improved player, and be on every talk show for the amazing transformation, then this will be a bad team.

 

[Bleedred]

Trying to be fair to Romeo. He played big minutes v. Cleveland (dare I say starter minutes? ) and looked every bit the competent defender. What was a bit troubling, and not terribly surprising so far, is that while he was setting a ton of screens in the last 4 minutes of the game for Tatum and Schroder, the Cavs were very obviously paying him no attention. Each time the Cav defenders hedged/blitzed the ballhandler, neither Tatum nor Schroder seemed to have any confidence in RL to pass him the ball, nor was RL looking for it. No picking and popping at all, because no one feared (Cavs) or had confidence in (Celts) RL. We were effectively playing 4 on 5 offensively. Work in progress.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I want to know how someone with his length and athleticism gets so few deflections.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend it's the end all stat when Gary Trent Jr. leads the league (although I find that amazing given his defensive reputation and his career stats coming into the year)

Smart is 6th in the NBA. 2nd is Caruso, 3rd is FVV. Melton 4th, LaMelo 5th.

Romeo is dead last in the league. 179 minutes played, 0 deflections. That's so bad I wonder if NBA.com is even correct, but looking up the definition of the word, it could very well be.

349 players have at least 1 deflection. So Romeo is tied with 104 other players for last, and has played 118 more minutes than anyone else on the list with 0 (Mamu).


6'11 wingspan, 8'7-8'8 standing reach, pretty good athleticism, great reputation as a defender. Gets as many deflections as Semi Ojeleye. Also not true, Semi has 186 minutes and 5 deflections.

He really doesn't do anything that shows up in a box score, whether it's traditional or advanced. I don't know if I've seen someone with worse per 36 or % stats.

I'm not saying any of this is good or bad, just that he's an outlier either way. His per 36 this year are 10.1 points, 4.4 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 0.4 steals, 0.2 blocks.

6.6% rebound rate, 3.3% assist rate, 0.6% steal rate, 0.5% block rate.

A good trend is 3PA/36 going from 2.6->2.3->3.8. And obviously the shooting %, even if he will return to earth at some point, .185 to .278 to .474.

The bad: 3.8 3PA/36 is not very good. But he's young and with more success may come more volume. Plus there are a lot of Brandon Ingram examples out there.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Offensive rebounding. According to cleaning the glass, he is 89th percentile among wings in OR%. Last year he was 83rd percentile in the regular season, 97th percentile in the playoffs. I admit it is a deep cut.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Offensive rebounding. According to cleaning the glass, he is 89th percentile among wings in OR%. Last year he was 83rd percentile in the regular season, 97th percentile in the playoffs. I admit it is a deep cut.

It's a deep cut but it does appear to be a real thing. Nesmith is good at it too in limiting playing time.

 

[lovegtm]

Man if they are starting him and he doesn't win most improved player, and be on every talk show for the amazing transformation, then this will be a bad team.

Dude, we get it, he's not Canadian.

Romeo supporters: "he's a nice young player who will get $9-13MM annually if healthy"

Romeo detractors: "haha you naive green-glassed morons, stop saying he's a star"

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Dude, we get it, he's not Canadian.

Romeo supporters: "he's a nice young player who will get $9-13MM annually if healthy"

Romeo detractors: "haha you naive green-glassed morons, stop saying he's a star"

Right, and 19 isn't the new 27.

 

[Bleedred]

Romeo supporters: "he's a nice young player who will get $9-13MM annually if healthy"

This is quite the revisionist step back from comparing Romeo to James Posey and suggesting he's basically playing starters minutes. However, if this is now the mantra of the RL supporters, there's very little to bicker about.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

This is quite the revisionist step back from comparing Romeo to James Posey and suggesting he's basically playing starters minutes. However, if this is now the mantra of the RL supporters, there's very little to bicker about.

One poster said used the phrase "starter minutes" (actually, "nearly starter minutes") and now multiple people bring that up like it's gospel.

Posey played on three average or worse teams before being traded to HOU. He then signed a 4-year FA contract worth the MLE (including maximum raises). 4-year FA contract worth the MLE (including maximum raises). Maybe I'm the only one, but I wouldn't be surprised if Romeo gets the same kind of second contract - assuming he stays healthy.

BTW, on the broadcast last night, Forsberg highlighted JRich as having the second best FG% against on the team. #1? Romeo.

I also wish the Cs would get the ball to Romeo more in transition but that doesn't seem like it's in the cards.

 

[Bleedred]

One poster said used the phrase "starter minutes" (actually, "nearly starter minutes") and now multiple people bring that up like it's gospel.

Posey played on three average or worse teams before being traded to HOU. He then signed a 4-year FA contract worth the MLE (including maximum raises). 4-year FA contract worth the MLE (including maximum raises). Maybe I'm the only one, but I wouldn't be surprised if Romeo gets the same kind of second contract - assuming he stays healthy.

BTW, on the broadcast last night, Forsberg highlighted JRich as having the second best FG% against on the team. #1? Romeo.

I also wish the Cs would get the ball to Romeo more in transition but that doesn't seem like it's in the cards.

I'm less interested in what second contract Romeo gets than what kind of player he becomes. The defensive instincts are there and he has plenty enough athleticism to be a productive defensive player. It's the rest of this game that has to improve, considerably, for him to be more than anything other than 7-10 rotational/off the bench roster filler. Yes, he has more upside than Grant Williams, but so far, he's not a better NBA basketball player than Grant Williams. I think that speaks for itself, at the moment.

 

[Jimbodandy]

One poster said used the phrase "starter minutes" (actually, "nearly starter minutes") and now multiple people bring that up like it's gospel.

Posey played on three average or worse teams before being traded to HOU. He then signed a 4-year FA contract worth the MLE (including maximum raises). 4-year FA contract worth the MLE (including maximum raises). Maybe I'm the only one, but I wouldn't be surprised if Romeo gets the same kind of second contract - assuming he stays healthy.

BTW, on the broadcast last night, Forsberg highlighted JRich as having the second best FG% against on the team. #1? Romeo.

I also wish the Cs would get the ball to Romeo more in transition but that doesn't seem like it's in the cards.

I'm still somewhat bullish on Romeo and appreciate the FG against (and think that it's real), but I'm not sold on getting him the ball more in transition. He has nice handles and enough athleticism (and great length), but the eyeball test doesn't love his finishing. I think that he needs more game reps to get back some of that touch before we start looking for him.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I'm less interested in what second contract Romeo gets than what kind of player he becomes. The defensive instincts are there and he has plenty enough athleticism to be a productive defensive player. It's the rest of this game that has to improve, considerably, for him to be more than anything other than 7-10 rotational/off the bench roster filler. Yes, he has more upside than Grant Williams, but so far, he's not a better NBA basketball player than Grant Williams. I think that speaks for itself, at the moment.

Yeah Grant has leapt past him this year again. That says something about both of them.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I'm still somewhat bullish on Romeo and appreciate the FG against (and think that it's real), but I'm not sold on getting him the ball more in transition. He has nice handles and enough athleticism (and great length), but the eyeball test doesn't love his finishing. I think that he needs more game reps to get back some of that touch before we start looking for him.

Romeo has trouble finishing in the half court because all of his life he was a faaaar superior athlete to everyone else he played against but now he's playing against guys that are much longer and taller than he's faced before. Transition is an entirely different story. From my eyes, it looks like he can beat most guys 1 on 1 but it's the rim protector that he's not yet sure how to handle.

This is where getting lots of reps on a bad team would have accelerated his development. Or even being on a normal team that, well, passed the ball as most teams do would have helped. I don't know if practice really helps him learn this stuff.

I keep thinking to how bad people thought TRoz was and he handled the ball. And then he turned out to be not so bad. So maybe there's hope?

 

[Jimbodandy]

Romeo has trouble finishing in the half court because all of his life he was a faaaar superior athlete to everyone else he played against but now he's playing against guys that are much longer and taller than he's faced before. Transition is an entirely different story. From my eyes, it looks like he can beat most guys 1 on 1 but it's the rim protector that he's not yet sure how to handle.

This is where getting lots of reps on a bad team would have accelerated his development. Or even being on a normal team that, well, passed the ball as most teams do would have helped. I don't know if practice really helps him learn this stuff.

I keep thinking to how bad people thought TRoz was and he handled the ball. And then he turned out to be not so bad. So maybe there's hope?

Great post. Yes, it does seem like it's the rim protector that he hasn't sorted yet.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

This is quite the revisionist step back from comparing Romeo to James Posey and suggesting he's basically playing starters minutes. However, if this is now the mantra of the RL supporters, there's very little to bicker about.

Is this the same James Posey that was so sought after as a FA that we had to pay all of $3.2m to sign him after wearing out his welcome in Miami two years after wearing his welcome out in Memphis? I mean geez….James Posey was about as ordinary a role player as the league has seen yet he’s viewed here as the second coming of Havlicek off the bench lol.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Is this the same James Posey that was so sought after as a FA that we had to pay all of $3.2m to sign him after wearing out his welcome in Miami two years after wearing his welcome out in Memphis? I mean geez….James Posey was about as ordinary a role player as the league has seen yet he’s viewed here as the second coming of Havlicek off the bench lol.

I just think it's a bad comparison. I wouldn't be shocked if Romeo ended up with similar value as James Posey, they just aren't alike at all. Romeo Langford has been in the league for 3 seasons and is still 8 months younger than James Posey was when Posey made his NBA debut.

 

[Bleedred]

Is this the same James Posey that was so sought after as a FA that we had to pay all of $3.2m to sign him after wearing out his welcome in Miami two years after wearing his welcome out in Memphis? I mean geez….James Posey was about as ordinary a role player as the league has seen yet he’s viewed here as the second coming of Havlicek off the bench lol.

hyperbole: "19 minutes is nearly 27 minutes," meet hyperbole, "yet he's viewed here as the second coming of Havlicek off the bench. lol"

No one, anywhere, has even hinted at that, but feel free to misrepresent. In fairness though, you're right that Posey was an average NBA player. Posey had a productive 13 year career who, dare I say, played starter minutes throughout. If Romeo's career ends up as productive as Posey's, for 13 years, he'll be pretty happy I suspect.

 

[lovegtm]

These debates over the 8th man would be a lot more fun if the team weren't a flaming garbage fire for the 2nd year in a row. I don't really have much left in me to care at this point.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

These debates over the 8th man would be a lot more fun if the team weren't a flaming garbage fire for the 2nd year in a row. I don't really have much left in me to care at this point.

That's basically what it boils down to. The last 2 seasons the team has had 7 legit players and not the best of health. You play with a roster that short, and injuries will do you in.

That's why we are always arguing over the 8th player, because we desperately need one.

 

[nighthob]

Is this the same James Posey that was so sought after as a FA that we had to pay all of $3.2m to sign him after wearing out his welcome in Miami two years after wearing his welcome out in Memphis? I mean geez….James Posey was about as ordinary a role player as the league has seen yet he’s viewed here as the second coming of Havlicek off the bench lol.

On the other hand had Boston re-signed him the PGA Celtics likely threepeat (because when the bone spur in Garnett’s knee was discovered during his preseason physical in the ‘09 season they likely would have taken care of it immediately rather than risking his health due to a shortage of guys taller than 6’6” on the roster).

 

[nighthob]

These debates over the 8th man would be a lot more fun if the team weren't a flaming garbage fire for the 2nd year in a row. I don't really have much left in me to care at this point.

It depresses me that Boston is in the Banchero sweepstakes on their own merits.

 

[Cellar-Door]

That's basically what it boils down to. The last 2 seasons the team has had 7 legit players and not the best of health. You play with a roster that short, and injuries will do you in.

That's why we are always arguing over the 8th player, because we desperately need one.

The biggest reason this team is bad this year isn't the depth (though it isn't good) it's that they aren't getting consistent star performances on both ends out of their stars.

 

[lovegtm]

The biggest reason this team is bad this year isn't the depth (though it isn't good) it's that they aren't getting consistent star performances on both ends out of their stars.

Right, we can obsess over roleplayers all we want, but at the end of the day, your stars have to actually be stars. It's encouraging that Tatum has raised his game on defense the past couple weeks, but he needs to consistently be an elite offensive presence for this team to be anything at all, regardless of what the Romeos and Richardsons do.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Langford could be in the "not putting things together" stage. He had a couple of moments last night and he was part of a bench unit that held/extended the lead in both halves.

Final possession of the third quarter, Lakers isolate Lebron on Langford at the top of the key. Lebron drives, but Langford steals the ball and starts the break. A Schroder layup at the other is blocked and Langford rebounds it, but misses a rushed shot at the buzzer.

I think part of his problem is that the Celtics are too good a team, but not good enough of a team, to let him burn possessions figuring out what works and doesn't.

 

[benhogan]

Romeo has played 12 games ~20mpg, give the kid some time playing consistent minutes...the popcorn analysis of young players around here is absurd.

Grant was a great rotation player 2 days ago, then the knives get pulled out after he misses a handful of shots in the first half of the Lakers game.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Romeo has played 12 games ~20mpg, give the kid some time playing consistent minutes...the popcorn analysis of young players around here is absurd.

Grant was a great rotation player 2 days ago, then the knives get pulled out after he misses a handful of shots in the first half of the Lakers game.

As for GW, it's interesting that in one game he multiple possessions defending Trae and in the next game, AD, in each case without a double coming. Wonder how many other guys in the league are asked to do that? I'll leave it to others to determine how well he did it but he wasn't Malik Monk level bad.

As for RL, the Cs kind of have him playing the 4 in the second unit as he gets switched onto bigs more than I personally would like - but it's probably necessitated due to the roster and TL being out. He has such great movement skills he's great to watch on the perimeter. Not many can simply drive past him.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Are there knives out for Grant? I think think when the team is healthy, there is a good argument to be made that the C's should play a little smaller (meaning less Grant, more wings) because you'd rather have Richardson out there than Grant from talent point of view.

But Grant has been finding ways to contribute on offense this year. Hitting threes. Cuts. Taking mismatches into the post. Passing seems a little better the last few games.

I think Grant is an NBA player, albeit one with limitations. This Celtic team would be a lot better if we could fairly point to Grant as one of the major problems.

 

[benhogan]

As for GW, it's interesting that in one game he multiple possessions defending Trae and in the next game, AD, in each case without a double coming. Wonder how many other guys in the league are asked to do that? I'll leave it to others to determine how well he did it but he wasn't Malik Monk level bad.

As for RL, the Cs kind of have him playing the 4 in the second unit as he gets switched onto bigs more than I personally would like - but it's probably necessitated due to the roster and TL being out. He has such great movement skills he's great to watch on the perimeter. Not many can simply drive past him.

I guess we're in the minority here, I also like what I see from Romeo. Firmly establishing his effort on D will create more confidence & earn him more shots on O.

Good observation on Grant, what is he #8 in the rotation? I wish PBS had gone out and landed a Kyle Andersen or Nance but GW isn't a sieve on D and can hit open 3s above league average.

Are there knives out for Grant? I think think when the team is healthy, there is a good argument to be made that the C's should play a little smaller (meaning less Grant, more wings) because you'd rather have Richardson out there than Grant from talent point of view.

But Grant has been finding ways to contribute on offense this year. Hitting threes. Cuts. Taking mismatches into the post. Passing seems a little better the last few games.

I think Grant is an NBA player, albeit one with limitations. This Celtic team would be a lot better if we could fairly point to Grant as one of the major problems.

the Grant hate reappeared in the game thread during the first half last night

IMO Grant is a wing. Thinner GW is very playable there. He claims he bulked up last year to play more 5, a fat/bulky Grant is terrible, that should never happen again.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

the Grant hate reappeared in the game thread during the first half last night

IMO Grant is a wing. Thinner GW is very playable there. He claims he bulked up last year to play more 5, a fat/bulky Grant is terrible, that should never happen again.

Key words: Game thread.

The Romeo critique goes beyond the game threads.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Key words: Game thread.

The Romeo critique goes beyond the game threads.

Yeah nobody closely following the team has a bigtime gripe with Grant this year.

Critiques of Romeo are more widely spread.

I've gotten to the point where I'd be very surprised if Romeo or Nesmith are legit rotation players in the next few years. Role players are nice though, and Romeo is definitely that (and maybe Nesmith is too).

Romeo has his moments. I get the wishcasting.