Rolling the dice - Patriots OTL staffing plan

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Has anyone seen anything about Troy Brown’s role with the team moving forward, and whether he might be an internal candidate to take on OC or a larger role?

I just haven’t read much about him as a coach. He went through the Walsh coaching fellowship and has been with the team as an RB/KR and then WR/KR coach over the last few seasons. He is still one of my all-time favorite players, and played all 3 phases of the game. I would love to see him play a bigger role on the coaching staff in the future.
 

ShaneTrot

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Look at that 2021 Giants offense. The line sucked, Jones was mostly mediocre, Barkley is toast, the receivers did not produce probably because of the QB and the line, and the backup QBs were below replacement level. Sure Judge flamed out and became a little unhinged. The fact that the team didn't improve is a black mark against him. But I bet Andy Reid or Sean McVay could not coax many more points out of that shitshow on offense. This comes out of Dave Gettleman's Wikipedia page: Gettleman retired following the 2021 season finishing his tenure with the Giants with a 19–46 (.292) record in four seasons, the worst in the NFL. Gettleman had peak Cam Newton and never really got him weapons, he did draft Christian McCaffrey in 2017 (his last year in Carolina). Gettleman was a fucking tire fire in NY. I trust BB, his track record is pretty good. If he thinks Judge can help, he probably will.
 

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Why does hiring Bill O ' Brien make you throw up in your mouth? When he was the Pats OC, they were very successful on offense. Now granted it is hard to separate Brady versus the OC's responsibility in the Pats offense, but the Pats had the number 1 rated offense in both 2010 and 2012. He oversaw the integration of Gronk and Hernandez into the offense and made Danny Woodhead into a useful piece.
As a head coach Bill O'Brian should receive credit for getting the Texans into the playoffs 5 out of 6 years. That is pretty impressive for any coach.
It's funny because one of the criticisms of McDaniels/BB is they weren't aggressive enough or take chances and BB is just hiring yes men. Then you have BoB who's the complete opposite but he's also "throw up inducing". I'll take next year with BoB the OC that told Brady to shut the fuck up vs most others. Guys got Saturn Nuts and won't be a yes man and he's not a HC and making personnel decisions which were his downfall.
 

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It's funny because one of the criticisms of McDaniels/BB is they weren't aggressive enough or take chances and BB is just hiring yes men. Then you have BoB who's the complete opposite but he's also "throw up inducing". I'll take next year with BoB the OC that told Brady to shut the fuck up vs most others. Guys got Saturn Nuts and won't be a yes man and he's not a HC and making personnel decisions which were his downfall.
I love every aspect of hiring BoB with one exception: if Mac shows improvement year 1
to year 2 (likely), then there is a moderate to
high flight risk with O’Brien. I question whether 3 OCs in 3 years would be good for Mac.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I love every aspect of hiring BoB with one exception: if Mac shows improvement year 1
to year 2 (likely), then there is a moderate to
high flight risk with O’Brien. I question whether 3 OCs in 3 years would be good for Mac.
This is my number one concern as well but I can’t imagine BB would hire him unless he agreed to at least a couple years. We all (well most of us) saw the Bledsoe OC turnstile which really hurt him.
 

JimD

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Why does hiring Bill O ' Brien make you throw up in your mouth? When he was the Pats OC, they were very successful on offense. Now granted it is hard to separate Brady versus the OC's responsibility in the Pats offense, but the Pats had the number 1 rated offense in both 2010 and 2012. He oversaw the integration of Gronk and Hernandez into the offense and made Danny Woodhead into a useful piece.
As a head coach Bill O'Brian should receive credit for getting the Texans into the playoffs 5 out of 6 years. That is pretty impressive for any coach.
The hiring of Bill O'Brien as OC is fine. It's the idea of him having the inside track as Bill's replacement that makes me sick. The Texans were a dysfunctional mess during his tenure and he appeared to have been a ringleader far more than an innocent bystander. Not to mention his spectacular failure as GM in Houston when he grabbed that power. I'm going to have to see a lot stronger case for BOB as the next great HC in waiting to be convinced.
 

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This is my number one concern as well but I can’t imagine BB would hire him unless he agreed to at least a couple years. We all (well most of us) saw the Bledsoe OC turnstile which really hurt him.
Bledsoe appears to have had the same offensive coordinator -- Ray Perkins -- for his first 4 NFL seasons.
 

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I love every aspect of hiring BoB with one exception: if Mac shows improvement year 1
to year 2 (likely), then there is a moderate to
high flight risk with O’Brien. I question whether 3 OCs in 3 years would be good for Mac.
I think this would be less of an issue with the Patriots because they don't change their offensive system with the new coordinator. Ideally, they would bring in both BoB and (if not already on the team) a logical successor to BoB who would be the QB coach.
 

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I think this would be less of an issue with the Patriots because they don't change their offensive system with the new coordinator. Ideally, they would bring in both BoB and (if not already on the team) a logical successor to BoB who would be the QB coach.
Agree.
 

RedOctober3829

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Yup.

Not going out of my way to defend the Judge legacy in NY but he lacked the one thing most successful NFL coaches have: a good QB. Two covid years coaching a team with very limited talent and Dan Jones as your QB is not going to look good even if he had handled parts of his job better.
He was an abject disaster in NY. 31st ranked offense both years. He’s also only spent 1 year if his coaching career on the offensive side of the ball. If this is Bill’s plan on offense, it’s not good enough. Bringing Judge back/promoting from within on this one is putting Mac’s development at risk. They need someone experienced who has had success as a play caller plus has had to develop a QB. Now, let’s see what else happens but if this is it it will be a massive disappointment.
 

Van Everyman

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The hiring of Bill O'Brien as OC is fine. It's the idea of him having the inside track as Bill's replacement that makes me sick. The Texans were a dysfunctional mess during his tenure and he appeared to have been a ringleader far more than an innocent bystander. Not to mention his spectacular failure as GM in Houston when he grabbed that power. I'm going to have to see a lot stronger case for BOB as the next great HC in waiting to be convinced.
Is this true for his non-GM tenure? I remember the Brock Osweiler imbroglio, Watt getting annually hurt and the likes of Tom Savage and Brian Hoyer starting playoff games, but am not sure how much any of that was O’Brien’s fault.

Even the stuff that did happen under his watch as GM—such as the disastrous Deandre Hopkins trade—was reported to be driven by Rasputerby.

Am I forgetting something? Seems to me that between Bob “Let-the-Inmates-Run-the-Prison” McNair and Cal “I May Literally Be in a Cult,,” O’Brien had his team playoff-bound (if not usually playoff-ready) despite a mess of an ownership situation for years.
 

Shelterdog

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He was an abject disaster in NY. 31st ranked offense both years. He’s also only spent 1 year if his coaching career on the offensive side of the ball. If this is Bill’s plan on offense, it’s not good enough. Bringing Judge back/promoting from within on this one is putting Mac’s development at risk. They need someone experienced who has had success as a play caller plus has had to develop a QB. Now, let’s see what else happens but if this is it it will be a massive disappointment.
If Joe Judge is the functional offensive coordinator next year, yes it's a cause for concern. If he's one of a couple of additions? that would be fine by me.
 

rodderick

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I think Joe Judge is a complete buffoon from what I saw of him with the Giants. The offensive results also speak for themselves. If he's coming for free whatever, but I don't think he moves the needle at all. Any coaching need they had before getting back Judge they'll still have after.
 

ShaneTrot

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Lazar was saying on his podcast, that Mick Lombardi may get an opportunity to call plays and he is highly regarded in the building. He also kept reiterating that BB is big on keeping the offensive system and verbiage the same no matter who is OC. It's not that they don't add things but the Erhardt-Perkins offense is the basis of everything they do.
 

amfox1

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Yeah, that's not good for the Patriots offense. The coaching staff has been drained.

They're losing their OC (McDaniels), WR coach (Lombardi), Oline coach (Bricillo) and assistant QB coach (Hardegree). RB coach Ivan Fears is also expected to retire.


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Troy Brown coached WRs and returners last year. Joe Judge has coached WRs also. Billy Yates was the assistant o-line coach last season.

The Patriots need to find an experienced QBs coach to work with Mac Jones. I still think they should go after Bill O'Brien. They need the help
 

amfox1

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Left on the Patriots offensive staff:

- Offensive assistant Joe Judge
- TE coach Nick Caley
- WRs/returners coach Troy Brown
- RB coach Ivan Fears (expected to retire)
- RB coach Vinnie Sunseri
- Assistant offensive line coach Billy Yates
- Offensive assistant Tyler Hughes
 

BaseballJones

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It's kind of amazing. Pats' assistants have not fared super well elsewhere, and even when they have a mediocre season, other teams just keep wanting Pats' assistants.

Honestly, the Pats need either BOB or (gulp) Gase. They need experience and quite a bit of it frankly.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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During the preseason, other coaches besides the coordinators get chances to call plays.

Any idea who was calling plays offensively this past preseason to get some experience?
 

Ed Hillel

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BB said this during his HBO doc with Saban…

“I’m happy for the people that have worked hard for me to get opportunities and I want to see them build their own program. When they try to tear down our program that's kind of where the line I feel like gets crossed.”
Josh McMangini?
 

Eddie Jurak

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Is tehre any reason this should not be viewed as Josh McDaniels handing his mentor a big shit sandwich? Looks like mwe are going to have an offensive staff with minimal coaching experience.
 

rodderick

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I mean, I don't think Bill can fault coaches for leaving to get a promotion elsewhere. At some point his tendency to have "de facto" OCs and DCs has to bite him in the ass. Maybe Mick Lombardi would have been the playcaller without the title in NE, but I'm 100% sure he wouldn't have been the OC, so who can blame him for following Josh? Now, poaching guys who will fill the same role is kinda fishy.
 

RG33

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I don’t get all of the strife in here about bringing back former Patriots assistants who have failed as HCs elsewhere. It seems to have worked pretty well in the past, and clearly BB values people that know the system and coaches who “know every role on the field” as he often mentions. I think BOB would be a great addition to the offensive staff and would tend to trust BB (and Nick Saban’s) judgement on his overall coaching acumen.

With that said, keeping Jerod Mayo, getting Troy Brown more involved, and ideally — bringing back Flores would be awesome. It would be nice to see the Patriots take more of a lead in the DEI hirings for high level positions.
 

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I don’t get all of the strife in here about bringing back former Patriots assistants who have failed as HCs elsewhere. It seems to have worked pretty well in the past, and clearly BB values people that know the system and coaches who “know every role on the field” as he often mentions. I think BOB would be a great addition to the offensive staff and would tend to trust BB (and Nick Saban’s) judgement on his overall coaching acumen.

With that said, keeping Jerod Mayo, getting Troy Brown more involved, and ideally — bringing back Flores would be awesome. It would be nice to see the Patriots take more of a lead in the DEI hirings for high level positions.
I believe they also have Demarcus Covington as the DL coach since 2020. Just finished his 5th season with the Pats. Along with Billy Yates, the Patriots have several African American coaches who are gaining valuable experience in Belichick’s system. It’s a matter of continuing to see them grow and expand their position skills to get ready for coordinator and potentially head coaching roles.

Of course, the Josh McCowns of the world render good faith efforts to develop diverse talent moot when they emerge as “finalists” for HC roles.
 
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ShaneTrot

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I'm not sweating any of the offensive coaches who have been a part of the last 3 Patriots offenses leaving.
The Pats scored 462 (27.2/g) points 6th of 32 teams. They were 15th in yards, this was a good and efficient offensive team. The offense did struggle down the stretch.
I can't fault guys for leaving if they get better offers or more money. This will be a whole new offensive staff, teams do this all the time. If you believe in BB, you have to figure he will put together a good staff.
 

JimD

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I would be helpful if Reiss or another decent writer could put the Pats coaching situation in perspective - we know there has been a 'brain drain' with the recent departures, but how does NE's coaching staff stack up in terms of numbers, average years of experience, etc.? I'll admit that I'm more than a little concerned that the Patriots leadership ranks might be thin after losing Bill's long-time right-hand man on offense, but I don't have a good sense of how deep the NE coaching bench is (or isn't), and how that compares to other leading clubs.
 

Shelterdog

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I would if the guys who are replacing them are gonna be Judge and Patricia
I'll keep beating this drum but it truly amazes me how anyone can have any certainty about how good any Patriots assistant coach is at their job. Judge and Patricia were both bad head coaches but other than that, who knows? They were coaches on great Pats teams, they seemed to have BIll's trust, both were well regarded by people who played for them--and we know so little about what their precise roles were or will be.

Big picture I think BB is going to let Mayo and Steve co run the defense and BB is going to be very focussed on the offense (and Mac Jones) this year--which temporarily lessons the importance of who the OC is.
That said I wouldn't be surprised if we see a more experienced person show up at some point. Maybe if you add Adam Gase you just do it and don't announce it until you release the press guide.
 
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Saints Rest

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I'll keep beating this drum but it truly amaze me how anyone can have any certainty about how good any Patriots assistant coach is at their job. Judge and Patricia were both bad head coaches but other than that, who knows? They were coaches on great Pats teams, they seemed to have BIll's trust, both were well regarded by people who played for them--and we know so little about what their precise roles were or will be.

Big picture I think BB is going to let Mayo and co run the defense and BB is going to be very focussed on the offense (and Mac Jones) this year.
I agree. The NFL is riddled with men who were excellent coordinators, both before and after being failures as head coaches.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I agree. The NFL is riddled with men who were excellent coordinators, both before and after being failures as head coaches.
Even beyond that, which I agree with, the Pats are particularly opaque about who is doing what. We don't really know who makes the defensive decisions--game plan, calls, etc. I expect we will be in a similar boat next year as to the offense. So it is possible that (say) McDaniels is operating nearly solo and deserves a lot of credit; it's also possible that BB, as his fourth job, is the key offensive game planner. There's really little way to have confidence in any of the assistants being independently great at their job...especially given the BB-era track record of departed assistants.
 

rodderick

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I love McDaniels, but they were fine before he got here and they'll be fine after. And as much as I think he's done a great job, a new approach offensively may not be the worst thing after the last few years.
Shouldn't we also consider who was QB when they were fine without McDaniels? I don't necessarily worry about the offense, especially if they bring in a guy like BOB who has experience running the system, but I don't think it's a given they'll be fine.
 

Shelterdog

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Shouldn't we also consider who was QB when they were fine without McDaniels? I don't necessarily worry about the offense, especially if they bring in a guy like BOB who has experience running the system, but I don't think it's a given they'll be fine.
I don't think it's a given that the offense will be fine, but I take it as very close to a given that the Patriots will have a good offensive scheme, good offensive game plans, and reasonably good play calling--and that's solely because I'm confident that BB will assemble a solid staff who can do a good job on offense and that BB will personally intervene if necessary to make it better. [I also fully expect to learn that when the story of the 2022 patriots is told we will learn that BB was functionally the QB coach, because coaching Mac this year is that important to the team's success for the rest of BB's career.]]

Do I know if it's going to be BOB or Gase or Judge or Caley calling the plays? No. But am I confident that whoever is handling the offense will do a nice job of it? Pretty much, yes. He's been very good in hiring assistants who work for the team for 20 years and until I actually see that track record stop I'll keep betting on it.

If I were a betting man I would predict they do hire one or two people with substantial experience on the offensive side because they don't have a ton. BOB or Gase make sense, and then maybe another person with not quite that much experience. For example Jerry Schuplinski is still out of work and he was kind of an up and comer here before he went to miami and then the giants so maybe he fits in there.
 

RedOctober3829

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I don't think it's a given that the offense will be fine, but I take it as very close to a given that the Patriots will have a good offensive scheme, good offensive game plans, and reasonably good play calling--and that's solely because I'm confident that BB will assemble a solid staff who can do a good job on offense and that BB will personally intervene if necessary to make it better. [I also fully expect to learn that when the story of the 2022 patriots is told we will learn that BB was functionally the QB coach, because coaching Mac this year is that important to the team's success for the rest of BB's career.]]

Do I know if it's going to be BOB or Gase or Judge or Caley calling the plays? No. But am I confident that whoever is handling the offense will do a nice job of it? Pretty much, yes. He's been very good in hiring assistants who work for the team for 20 years and until I actually see that track record stop I'll keep betting on it.

If I were a betting man I would predict they do hire one or two people with substantial experience on the offensive side because they don't have a ton. BOB or Gase make sense, and then maybe another person with not quite that much experience. For example Jerry Schuplinski is still out of work and he was kind of an up and comer here before he went to miami and then the giants so maybe he fits in there.
Eric Bieneimy is someone I'd consider as a QB coach if he doesn't re-up with KC. He can bring some fresh perspective from dealing with a young QB, maybe bring some more RPO-type wrinkles that can work to Mac's strengths, and has enough cache on offense where Bill may trust him.
 

Garshaparra

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Eric Bieneimy is someone I'd consider as a QB coach if he doesn't re-up with KC. He can bring some fresh perspective from dealing with a young QB, maybe bring some more RPO-type wrinkles that can work to Mac's strengths, and has enough cache on offense where Bill may trust him.
QB coach? He'll be an OC or college HC at a minimum if he does not return to KC as OC+Assistant HC, at a sizable raise.
 

Cellar-Door

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He'd be a pretty challenging hire as a college head coach, given his legal history.
LOL

College coaches are absolute scum, nobody cares so long as they win, you have multiple guys who killed kids on their watch and got new jobs, cover up a bunch of rapes... here's a raise. Some assault charges from years ago and being in that scummy CU program aren't even dings at the college level.
 

Captaincoop

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LOL

College coaches are absolute scum, nobody cares so long as they win, you have multiple guys who killed kids on their watch and got new jobs, cover up a bunch of rapes... here's a raise. Some assault charges from years ago and being in that scummy CU program aren't even dings at the college level.
Who's the last head coaching hire with a criminal rap sheet?
 

Cellar-Door

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Who's the last head coaching hire with a criminal rap sheet?
I would guess quite a lot if like Bienemy we're talking misdemeanors. Considering Bienemy himself was offerred the CU head coaching job 2 years ago, I'm quite certain that at least some (likely all) schools don't care.

Just a quick look tells me Greg Schiano has a misdemeanor, Deion (yes technically not D-I) I know has multiple misdemeanors, did Hugh Freeze get charged in that escort thing or just fired?
 

Cellar-Door

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Bienemy has three assaults and a DUI on his record. Not like "Oh, I had a DUI once when I was young".
he definitely does not. He may have 1 assault (not clear) a disorderly conduct and an interfering with a firefighter. All 30 years ago. plus a DUI 20 years ago.
Beyond that though.... if you think that stuff would stop him from getting a college HC job you are crazy, we literally know he was offered one 2 years ago in a major conference.
 

leftfieldlegacy

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Bienemy has three assaults and a DUI on his record. Not like "Oh, I had a DUI once when I was young".
With the exception of the DUI which occured at age 31, all of his legal issues occurred between the ages of 19 and 24.
As a player at Colorado, Bieniemy was arrested along with a teammate following a February 1988 bar fight.[12] He pleaded no contest to disorderly conduct and fighting in public, and was sentenced to community service.[12] He also received discipline from head coach Bill McCartney.[12]

In 1989, Bieniemy was ticketed in Westminster, Colorado for driving a defective vehicle, and in Aurora, Colorado for speeding. In October 1990, Bieniemy's license was suspended for a year after another traffic violation. On March 21, 1991, Bieniemy was caught speeding and driving with suspended license on I-70 near Rifle, Colorado, going 92 mph in a 65 mph zone. On April 17, 1991, Bieniemy failed to appear in court on charges relating to the March 21 incident. A bench warrant was issued in Colorado for his arrest on April 23, 1991, two days after he was drafted in the 1991 NFL Draft.[13]

On July 4, 1990, Bieniemy pleaded no contest to interfering with a firefighter who had been performing his duties to extinguish a fire in Bieniemy's mother's garage.[13] Bieniemy received an eight-month suspended sentence[14] and was suspended for one game.[15] Bieniemy was instructed to do 40 hours of community service and attend an eight-hour firefighting training session.[13] An assistant city attorney said Bieniemy failed to attend the firefighting training session as stipulated in the plea agreement, but Bieniemy asserted the session was optional.[13]

On September 27, 1993, Bieniemy was arrested in Boulder, Colorado, for allegedly harassing a female parking attendant. According to the police report, while with his friends, Bieniemy put his hand on the attendant's neck, startling her. She told police ,"[14] that Bieniemy and his friends took off their pants and began urinating nearby. Bieniemy was also named in an outstanding warrant on a charge of driving with a suspended license. As a result of this incident, Bieniemy was banned from the University of Colorado Boulder campus for one year.[7][16]

In April 2001, Bieniemy was arrested for driving under the influence and was docked a month's pay.[17]
Definitely not anything to be proud of but he has had no further incidents for the past 20 years. He is also now 52 and has been married to the same woman for about 30 years. They have 2 children, the oldest is 26 and has been in a wheelchair since birth due to Cerebral Palsy. During the early months of the pandemic Bienemy moved into a hotel for 6 months to avoid exposing his high risk son to Covid.
Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy lived in a hotel from July 23 through the Super Bowl to isolate from his wife, Mia, and their two sons. Bieniemy’s older son, Eric III, has cerebral palsy and respiratory issues, making the 26-year-old high risk for contracting COVID-19. To keep him safe, Bieniemy made this private sacrifice for the entirety of the 2020 season: He would stay in a hotel six nights out of the week and only return home on Fridays—but wearing double masks, keeping a distance and sleeping in the basement. “It’s been this way for the past six months,” Bieniemy said before Super Bowl LV. “It’s been a challenge.” The lonely nights were a stark contrast from how 2020 began, with Eric III’s wheelchair parked on a platform inside Hard Rock Stadium in Miami, Mia whispering play-by-play in his ear as the Chiefs fought their way to a Super Bowl championship.
I would feel confident that he is a very different man today than he was 20 years ago.
 

Shelterdog

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With the exception of the DUI which occured at age 31, all of his legal issues occurred between the ages of 19 and 24. Definitely not anything to be proud of but he has had no further incidents for the past 20 years. He is also now 52 and has been married to the same woman for about 30 years. They have 2 children, the oldest is 26 and has been in a wheelchair since birth due to Cerebral Palsy. During the early months of the pandemic Bienemy moved into a hotel for 6 months to avoid exposing his high risk son to Covid. I would feel confident that he is a very different man today than he was 20 years ago.
Even if he is don't you think there may be a concern that his past could be used to negatively recruit against him? That' essentially why Mike Price lost his job so quickly years ago--the fear was that after a sex scandal he couldn't recruit in religious homes in the south which you kind of need to do as Bama's coach.