They need help. There is no way that Al can play 30+ minutes a game at the 5 for 82 games plus the playoffs. PBS either needs to make a trade or bring in someone like Dwight Howard and see if he has anything left in the tank.
Robert Williams, Season 5: Warping the Space-Time Continuum
- Thread starter Imbricus
- Start date
This.
There's no sense at all in rushing him back, so I think this is right.
It seems like they need to think about this as a chronic issue that needs to be managed carefully throughout Rob's career here. However, even in the playoffs Rob was quite good at times, so I think there is still reason to be optimistic about him with his current contract.
We can cross our fingers and hope that the loose bodies that were removed were the entire cause of inflammation. Let's do that. The alternative is that Rob already has some bone on bone that either hasn't been repaired yet or can't be repaired.
View: https://twitter.com/FanDuelTV/status/1582373634177265664
This is exceptionally not good. PRP treatment, TL to miss half the season or more according to Shams, targeting Dec/Jan but may be later.
This is exceptionally not good. PRP treatment, TL to miss half the season or more according to Shams, targeting Dec/Jan but may be later.
Agreed. This team's ability to make a deep run into the playoffs is going to depend on his ability to not only come back and stay on the floor but to play at a high level. The improved offense gives them some wiggle room I guess, but generally I'm pretty worried about his knee at this juncture. Maybe he comes back and doesn't miss a game through the rest of the year, or is mostly healthy, but I hate to go into the unknown not knowing.
They can go out and get another center, but that doesn't change the fact that this team was elite defensively last year because of Rob, and as one of the very best rim protectors and roaming defenders in the league, he probably can't be replaced in terms of his production.
He also said Rob would be able to play now if it were the playoffs. December/January is pretty in line with the original 8-12 week timeline.
This screams that the Celtics just want to preserve him for the last few months+playoffs. This is from Mark Murphy’s replacement
View: https://twitter.com/steve_hewitt/status/1582383237866737667?s=20&t=ZS2u7HclsKBZ7xc_NlrD3A
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1582385245931810816?s=20&t=-rzvwUpLvg8QIZMI8fPXWg
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Yeah, seeing what he’s capable of when healthy and knowing he’ll never be truly healthy again just sucks, especially when you factor in the implications to the title chase.
The Shams thing was a non update, like I said above. People just kept retweeting it without watching the video.
I mean, his knee is pretty clearly F’d. We just have to hope that we can get a decent stretch this spring.
I wouldn't say that. He noted a new PRP procedure yesterday and noted that while they were targeting Dec/Jan going later wouldn't be surprising. It's an update in terms of procedures and a note that whoever leaked it to him has at least some concern on timeline. Also, even saying December/January indicates a longer timeline than the original 8-12 weeks. 8 weeks is in November, 12 weeks is mid-December. Saying December/January, you're really talking 12 weeks minimum, but really more like 14-15 as a target, and some indication that there is a thought it could be more.
Shams said Rob would be cleared to play TODAY if it were the playoffs. Could his knee be toast? I guess, but nothing from today is really news, other than the injection, which is common after his surgery IIRC.
This just seems like they rather have him play less this season and hope he’s able to avoid being banged up by the playoffs.
Right, which is clearly a sign that they are worried that injuries are likely to plague him and that load management will be his only hope of staying on the floor.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned.
Sure, maybe he could hobble around the court like he did in the finals. I don’t ever expect to see DPOY candidate TL much more. I certainly hope I’m wrong but he’s been trending in the wrong direction for a while now. It’s just part of the package, unfortunately:
Rob is always going to be injury prone, we knew that when he got drafted. I just am not surprised by the fact that they want to lord manage him, after overplaying him last season.
Totally justified to be concerned, but people are jumping the gun based on a pretty empty new report.
Edit: I meant to type load manage, it auto corrected to lord. Only felt right to keep it.
What fraction of players come back even semi-effective at the tail end of the original timeline? So why is this a surprise?
If anything, perhaps the Celts are recollecting Gordon Hayward sort of rushing his return... and never fully regaining his game.
If anything, perhaps the Celts are recollecting Gordon Hayward sort of rushing his return... and never fully regaining his game.
It's not an empty new report. It's a PRP injection.
The "jumping the gun" folks are showing restraint by not flooding this chat with all of the other dudes who had PRP injections in their knees and what that meant. Kemba, for example, was just cut today outright at a cost of 9M, and his PRP was less than 2 years ago.
I don’t think the news today changes anything.
It’s been clear for awhile he has a small meniscus (due to the partial meniscectomy surgical trim resulting in less cushioning in the lateral compartment) and “some” cartilage damage and arthritis in his knee. The data for PRP working is weak/anecdotal at best, but very little risk of harm. No surprise they are trying it.
From the outside, it’s not clear that anything done last season changed the natural history of his disease. He sustained a meniscus tear and had a standard procedure to address the tear, trimming a portion out. Presumably this tear wasn’t amenable to a true repair regardless of when in the season it happened.
Coming back a month later is pretty typical, especially without symptoms at that time. Playing later on the clearly sore knee with recurrent fluid buildup (as reported) is where it gets dicier. Apparently he was told he wouldn’t do any added damage, and this may or may not be true.
It’s entirely possible whatever extra cartilage damage he sustained could have happened whenever he started playing again anyway. Having said that, if you are in pain like that the bone below the cartilage is likely bruised and there’s some data that is going to cause the above cartilage to flake off and be more at risk (a bit of a chicken/egg scenario).
In general, I’m sure he would have been given more rest of it wasn’t the playoffs out of an abundance of caution, like they are doing this season. Without being able to see his MRI, I’d put the error bars on the end of this season/career extremely large. A return to peak performance is certainly possible, don’t give up hope (a large number of pro players I see have “some arthritis”, it’s not automatically a death sentence, the degree and location matters a lot). Going the way of Kemba is also on the table.
Just a long winded way to say, keep your fingers crossed. No one really knows at this point, including his docs most likely.
It’s been clear for awhile he has a small meniscus (due to the partial meniscectomy surgical trim resulting in less cushioning in the lateral compartment) and “some” cartilage damage and arthritis in his knee. The data for PRP working is weak/anecdotal at best, but very little risk of harm. No surprise they are trying it.
From the outside, it’s not clear that anything done last season changed the natural history of his disease. He sustained a meniscus tear and had a standard procedure to address the tear, trimming a portion out. Presumably this tear wasn’t amenable to a true repair regardless of when in the season it happened.
Coming back a month later is pretty typical, especially without symptoms at that time. Playing later on the clearly sore knee with recurrent fluid buildup (as reported) is where it gets dicier. Apparently he was told he wouldn’t do any added damage, and this may or may not be true.
It’s entirely possible whatever extra cartilage damage he sustained could have happened whenever he started playing again anyway. Having said that, if you are in pain like that the bone below the cartilage is likely bruised and there’s some data that is going to cause the above cartilage to flake off and be more at risk (a bit of a chicken/egg scenario).
In general, I’m sure he would have been given more rest of it wasn’t the playoffs out of an abundance of caution, like they are doing this season. Without being able to see his MRI, I’d put the error bars on the end of this season/career extremely large. A return to peak performance is certainly possible, don’t give up hope (a large number of pro players I see have “some arthritis”, it’s not automatically a death sentence, the degree and location matters a lot). Going the way of Kemba is also on the table.
Just a long winded way to say, keep your fingers crossed. No one really knows at this point, including his docs most likely.
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And there’s an infinitely longer list of players who got PRP injections that went on to be fine, as it seems to be common after Meniscus surgery.
The PRP injection is not indicative of anything regarding the severity of the issue. It falls into the "might help and can't hurt" category. Pro athletes getting PRP injections during recovery happens a lot more often than is reported in the news. It usually makes news when it happens in-season and there is a question about how quickly a player will return, because the PRP injection does mean that a player won't be playing within the next few days.
Good context, also appreciate rad's position on this.
Let's be specific though. PRP in an elbow is different from PRP to address recurring swelling in a knee. Like it's a big difference. Not that it means that TL is going to turn into Kemba, but not all PRP is the same.
At this point regardless of how dire or not his knee is, Williams should heretofore be known as Part-time Lord
Its a bummer. He is such a joy to watch play not just because of his skill but also because when he is going good, his joy for the game is palpable. He is one of those athletes that remind me that sports is supposed to be fun even though there are huge stakes.
His response to being asked if he regretted coming back for the playoffs was pitch perfect, not just for being the right answer, but also the attitude and what he’s all about.
As is Part-Time Lord. Dammit!
If you conjured this, massive kudos.
And I feel your pain about watching the kid. He's a joy. I'd love to be wrong about him and will appreciate whatever we get.
I’ve been a huge Robert Williams fan from the first times I saw him in person, when he first got some real minutes in a couple of games as a rookie, and he blocked the ball into the faces of Anthony Davis and Karl-Anthony Towns. He’s one of the most unique players in the NBA, and I absolutely love the way he plays. As much as I wanted him to see him play as much as possible, it makes sense for him to rest as long as it takes for that knee to get feeling good. I don’t think this is an indication that he’s cooked, or that he won’t come back with the same otherworldly athleticism for someone that big. Even if I’m wrong and he loses a little bit of his athleticism, he’s still going to be a really good contributor if he can stay on the court.
Given how good and deep this team is at other positions, I think it should at least kick around acquiring someone like Poeltl as a floor-raiser at C. The barrier there is that Poeltl will be a UFA, but I don't think his market would get *that* crazy. I get the tax implications though.
It's a tough situation to have someone who is as good as TL, but also as uncertain, just because this team's ceiling is title (maybe even without him). Sucks to have so much volatility given that.
I guess the alternate solution is to just play Grant and Vonleh and Griffin at backup C, win a lot of regular season games, and keep TL on an incredibly conservative schedule. That seems more doable after watching Grant and Vonleh play Embiid ok.
It's a tough situation to have someone who is as good as TL, but also as uncertain, just because this team's ceiling is title (maybe even without him). Sucks to have so much volatility given that.
I guess the alternate solution is to just play Grant and Vonleh and Griffin at backup C, win a lot of regular season games, and keep TL on an incredibly conservative schedule. That seems more doable after watching Grant and Vonleh play Embiid ok.
I think Wyc will pay the tax on the last piece if necessary. Poeltl will definitely be available.
Not much to complain about in regards to the C's BUT
watching Blake the other night was giving me Jabari vibes.
There were all kinds of Luke happy talk, from Brad, this summer. Let's get Lurch going
They should just develop Kabengele. There will be a lot of open space for an athletic offensive rebounder to get easy put backs. He looks like he can move well enough to hang in their defensive scheme. Hopefully they’ll be a couple of blowouts where he gets in and shows out.
Blake looks ground bound and slow. If he can’t make over 36 percent of his threes, he will be useless. Vonleh could be ok, but can he really be a rotation big in a top NBA team? I never had a lot of confidence in Kornet, who looks to me to be barely better than a G Leaguer. If AL has to miss any games, the bigs are going to be a problem.
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Which is why I’d try and nab Poeltl. Let Rob come back as a key bench piece for this season and keep him healthy.
Poetl is a good player. Why do we think he'd be available? To accelerate the Spurs' tanking endeavors?
He’s been mentioned for 2-3 months for precisely that reason.
https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/.amp/news/san-antonio-jakob-poeltl-trade-rumors-first-round-picks
Plan A is getting Rob back.
Without him they will likely look for a deadline deal.
The guys they have are fine for what they need to do early in the season. One would not think Embiid is a good matchup for the Celtics’ motley collection of backup centers but they knocked Philly off relatively easily even with Al in foul trouble.
Without him they will likely look for a deadline deal.
The guys they have are fine for what they need to do early in the season. One would not think Embiid is a good matchup for the Celtics’ motley collection of backup centers but they knocked Philly off relatively easily even with Al in foul trouble.
Can the Spurs require via trade a player they bought out? If not, it will be impossible for the Cs to match Poeltl’s $8.75 million salary. If they want to acquire a live body true center now, here are some of the barely rotation level 2023 free agents on probable tanking teams earning under $4 million, to fit under a trade exception
Alex Len, Sac
Goga Biztadza, Ind
Boban, Hou
Gorgui Dieng, SA
Vernon Carey, Wiz
Udoka Azubuike, Jazz
Mike Muscala OKC
Taj Gibson, Wiz
Here are the possible buyout bigs from probable lotto teams:
Myles Turner Ind
Nerlens Noel, Det
Mason Plumlee, Cha (who Boston could make the trade money work with Gallinari + scrub)
Turner is the best bet for the rotation quality big who can shoot the long ball on a playoff team. If that happened, book the parade route. Noel would be very interesting as a defensive stopper, and Plumlee is a live body at both ends. . Any one of those three as a buyout acquisition would be a plus to the playoff rotation
Alex Len, Sac
Goga Biztadza, Ind
Boban, Hou
Gorgui Dieng, SA
Vernon Carey, Wiz
Udoka Azubuike, Jazz
Mike Muscala OKC
Taj Gibson, Wiz
Here are the possible buyout bigs from probable lotto teams:
Myles Turner Ind
Nerlens Noel, Det
Mason Plumlee, Cha (who Boston could make the trade money work with Gallinari + scrub)
Turner is the best bet for the rotation quality big who can shoot the long ball on a playoff team. If that happened, book the parade route. Noel would be very interesting as a defensive stopper, and Plumlee is a live body at both ends. . Any one of those three as a buyout acquisition would be a plus to the playoff rotation
Per spotrac both Poeltl and Turner are expirings, which makes them buyout and tank candidates IMO. LFG.
Poeltl has legit trade value, I’m sure there’s a deal for him. Turner is a good buyout possibility.
Turner has been linked to the Lakers for what seems like all off-season. Whether they actually can acquire him or not is an open question but both players are more likely to be traded than bought out. Given their skill sets, they are likely to have a lot of demand if they are put on the market.
I doubt they buy out Poeltl, because he's decent enough that they would think maybe they can do S&T in the summer if necessary to facilitate.
Yeah wishcasting on my part I guess. They do want to tank enough to do that, but you cats are right that they probably get value for him instead. Doubt they'd wait for S&T though, since tank.
Because they’ve been so meh the last few years, nobody really pays attention to the Spurs, but he’s REALLY good. They’ll probably get a really nice return for him, even as an expiring. He’s not very good at switching out into the perimeter, but he’s just a monster interior defender.
Noel, is a poor man's TL... floating rim protector
Game 1 DNP. NN is signed for 2yrs more seasons at $19MM with Stewart/Duren in front of him. Tricky buyout candidate.
After Dec 15th, offer Gallo + flotsam to save Detroit $$$
OR does Brad hold off on using Gallo's salary?
Spotrac has next year for Noel as a club option. Why were they rebuilding Detroit team exercise that option when they have two young bigs in front of him?