RIP Toucher and Rich Show ... It was fun while it lasted

Andy Merchant

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Trying to remember. What were the circumstances surrounding Wallach leaving WEEI? I know he's not very knowledgeable, and rather annoying at times but he was the only one to make the jump when TSH launched and he's def. gotta be feeling good about the decision*


*if the decision was, in fact, his own
I seem to remember a Chad Finn article a couple of years ago about Wallach, and it said he apparently reached out to TSH on his own. It left me with the impression that he saw the writing on the wall leading to the outsourced sports flashes and ultimate dumping of Pete Sheppard and left on his own terms.
 

TFP

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You'd have to think the easiest and most logical move for WEEI at this point is to move to FM, right? That would help gain back some listeners for sure and really wouldn't force any difficult decisions in the short term.

Obviously that won't come to close to turning it around, but it's an easy no-brainer move that really doesn't have any downside that I can see.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Did anyone hear T&R's absolute demolishing diatribe on the ratings and EEI this morning around 8:30? It was pretty awesome.

They said something about how TSH was getting calls, resumes and emails from people in the industry who wanted a shot at the morning show once "Toucher and Rich were fired". Fred said that TSH even hired one of those people (I bet it was Gresh) and said that John Dennis was "truly an ass". They were (understandably) pretty pumped up from the numbers and took a few minutes to rub EEI's face in it.

I for one am pretty glad for them.
 

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You'd have to think the easiest and most logical move for WEEI at this point is to move to FM, right? That would help gain back some listeners for sure and really wouldn't force any difficult decisions in the short term.

Obviously that won't come to close to turning it around, but it's an easy no-brainer move that really doesn't have any downside that I can see.
The most logical move, to me, would be EEI realizing that Jason Wolfe doesn't know his ass from his elbow, and that he and Julie Kahn should be shown the door immediately. These two jackholes had plenty of arrogant and condescending comments to make when EEI ruled the rating roost when they had no sports competition in town and credited their success to their own genius; now that there's an alternative that actually displays a modicum of competence, they're getting their pasty white asses kicked.

And I couldn't be happier.
 

Curtis_Lesspanic

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Did anyone hear T&R's absolute demolishing diatribe on the ratings and EEI this morning around 8:30? It was pretty awesome.

They said something about how TSH was getting calls, resumes and emails from people in the industry who wanted a shot at the morning show once "Toucher and Rich were fired". Fred said that TSH even hired one of those people (I bet it was Gresh)I
Is that why I can't ever remember them doing a cross over with Gresh? I can totally understand not liking him just based on who he is.
 

Salem's Lot

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Is that why I can't ever remember them doing a cross over with Gresh? I can totally understand not liking him just based on who he is.
Are you listening right now? They're doing a cross over with Gresh. I have a feeling that the guy that they referenced was McAdam. Gresh was already working on Patriots pre & post coverage before he got the midday gig.
 

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[quote name='Mo's OBP' timestamp='1310590887' post='3632835']
"Jason, we need to see you in our office. Now."
[/quote]


“The Bruins [team stats] Stanley Cup run was the dominant story of the spring and I thought our coverage was superb, but clearly they got a boost having the games on their station,” said WEEI program director Jason Wolfe. “That said, the numbers don’t diminish how strong the WEEI brand is, or how well-positioned we are going forward.”


Perhaps if WEEI hadn't treated the Bruins and the sport of hockey with the utmost contempt over the past 5 years or so they might not have gotten trounced in the rating in this period as the Bruins made their Cup run. And of course WEEI had the Celtics playoffs in this time period, so it's hardly like they were in a gun fight wielding a knife.

Ye reap what ye sow, Wolfie. Now go get your effing shinebox.
 

Curtis_Lesspanic

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Just caught that. I guess I never had paid too much attention because I'm in the process of changing the channel. And actually Gresh has been doing the pre and post game shows for a while but was brought in to do a weekend show after a few months. Which is funny because now I like the weekend offerings on TSH much more than the midday show. How they maintain the rating I'll never understand.
 

Curtis_Lesspanic

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Perhaps if WEEI hadn't treated the Bruins and the sport of hockey with the utmost contempt over the past 5 years or so they might not have gotten trounced in the rating in this period as the Bruins made their Cup run. And of course WEEI had the Celtics playoffs in this time period, so it's hardly like they were in a gun fight wielding a knife.

Ye reap what ye sow, Wolfie. Now go get your effing shinebox.
Nothing made my blood boil more than Ordway and his lackeys cackling as they ran another segment of "Hockey Talk."

Wolfe effectively firing the one guy on the station who knew Hockey right before the Bruins win the Cup was a sound decision as well.
 

Carmine Hose

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I enjoy the fact that Wolfe tries to point out that the ratings win is a factor of the Bruins' cup success. Yet, when WEEI was the only station with a signal and the Sox and Pats were dominating, they gave all the credit to themselves. It went all the way down to the hosts tooting their own horns.
 

TheRooster

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A)The FM thing is a good point. With so many people living between 128 and 495, it is a real problem for EEI.
B)How can you NOT fire John Dennis after this book? Callahan has some redeeming qualities, and putting someone younger (female even?) with him would have to help.
C) T&R's gloating and feigned anger this morning was unseemly and not interesting radio.
 

behindthepen

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the funny thing is that the ratings for D&C got worse after they were put on NESN. Wouldn't it be just too bad if NESN dropped them?
 

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the funny thing is that the ratings for D&C got worse after they were put on NESN. Wouldn't it be just too bad if NESN dropped them?
I never understood the rationale for putting them on NESN. The show's the same as on the radio, they're hideously awful to look at, and unless a new sport comes about in counting Dennis' increasing number of chins I can't see the appeal. The very definition of faces made for radio and extremely loathsome personalities.
 

JohnnyTheBone

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You'd have to think the easiest and most logical move for WEEI at this point is to move to FM, right? That would help gain back some listeners for sure and really wouldn't force any difficult decisions in the short term.
Totally. I can't get AM in my car. When I travel with other people, they can seldom get AM in the car, either. AM sucks. EEI needs to get busy being FM, or get busy dying.
 

Billy Jo Robidoux

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I'd like to think the last thing that went through Jason Wolfe's head, besides these terrible ratings, was to wonder how the hell TSH ever got the best of him.
 

Phenom

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the funny thing is that the ratings for D&C got worse after they were put on NESN. Wouldn't it be just too bad if NESN dropped them?
It's interesting though...D&C's ratings in the 25-54 haven't really decreased all that much. It's just that T&R's ratings have skyrocketed, mostly due to them reigning in younger demos that didn't previously listen to talk radio.

My point is, D&C will always have respectable ratings numbers in the 25-54 (they get KILLED in younger demos, but as we know 25-54 is really the most important one). The big problem is how lowly rated the midday show is and how much "The Big Show" has fallen off. Mut and Merloni finished 10th in the market...seems almost impossible that a show on a powerhouse sports radio station in a sports crazed market could do that poorly.

Neither Mutnansky nor Merloni are controversial, so I can't imagine that they've driven people away. Is it just that the show's sooooo boring that nobody listens? It's not like GRESH and Zolak are doing their best "Mike and the Mad Dog" impersonation on 98.5 from 10-2 either.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Neither Mutnansky nor Merloni are controversial, so I can't imagine that they've driven people away. Is it just that the show's sooooo boring that nobody listens? It's not like GRESH and Zolak are doing their best "Mike and the Mad Dog" impersonation on 98.5 from 10-2 either.
The only conclusion that makes sense is that, inexplicably, Dale Arnold was the engine that drove the WEEI super-train.
 

Cuzittt

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You'd have to think the easiest and most logical move for WEEI at this point is to move to FM, right? That would help gain back some listeners for sure and really wouldn't force any difficult decisions in the short term.
Easy? I'm not sure how easy it is.

Entercom Radio Boston has a stable of 4 Radio Stations, 2 on the FM side and 2 on the AM side. Your assumption would be to switch WEEI to one of the FM stations.

The two FM stations are:

WAAF... which is at two frequencies. 107.3 and 97.7. I don't think they would take over either frequency.

The other is 93.7 WMMK. I don't know how the ratings are for this station... but it seems like the speculation is that this is the station EEI would take over. The question is when... and what is the signal strength like. They may do better in Boston but lose other parts of the market if the frequency is poor.

[I don't live in Boston and don't pretend to know the frequency demographics of these stations.]
 

th@tkid

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they already have an FM station 103.7 not sure what the coverage is but I would get a better signal on it sometimes (back when I would actually listen to EEI) but not always.
 

SoxFan58

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C) T&R's gloating and feigned anger this morning was unseemly and not interesting radio.
So when D&C did the exact opposite and pulled muscles patting themselves on the back a few months back ("Congrats everyone for still being #1") and then accused T&R on the radio of lying about the ratings, that was ok?

I for one think they deserved to rub WEEI's nose in it after that.
 

th@tkid

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Rich just wanted NESN to remove the #1 morning show banner they keep on the screen during the D&C show. which they did to "best morning show"
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The other is 93.7 WMMK. I don't know how the ratings are for this station... but it seems like the speculation is that this is the station EEI would take over. The question is when... and what is the signal strength like. They may do better in Boston but lose other parts of the market if the frequency is poor.

[I don't live in Boston and don't pretend to know the frequency demographics of these stations.]
93.7 is based north of Boston, and its coverage pattern should improve upon the AM signal, especially at night when 850's signal is dampened and unlistenable west of 128.

Here's 93.7's coverage:


Which would compliment the FM signal out of RI (103.7):



Neither of WAAF's signals make a ton of sense for WEEI. The 107.3 signal barely penetrates into the city, which is why they simulcast on 97.7 in the first place. And 97.7 has too much overlap with 103.7 and leaves the north shore largely uncovered (what in the world would Frank from Gloucester do?).
 

Bleedred

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I never understood the rationale for putting them on NESN. The show's the same as on the radio, they're hideously awful to look at, and unless a new sport comes about in counting Dennis' increasing number of chins I can't see the appeal. The very definition of faces made for radio and extremely loathsome personalities.
The big problem with D&C, IMO, is that they are lazy. When they had no competitition, they dominated the ratings and believed (rightly I guess) that there was no need to change anything. Their formula was to speak about politics and sports, interview guests in politics and sports, and that's it. The rabid sports following in Boston took care of the rest. When TSH came on the air and went with Toucher and Rich, the difference between the 2 shows couldn't have been more stark. T&R are constantly trying to come up with funny and creative bits. Often they work, sometimes they don't, but they are motivated, hard working and quick witted, everything that D&C are not. The Bruins run obviously played a huge factor in T&R's ass kicking, but they had already matched D&C before the Bruins run. D&C were old before T&R arrived, now they're ancient.
 

weeba

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Easy? I'm not sure how easy it is.


[I don't live in Boston and don't pretend to know the frequency demographics of these stations.]
Coverage maps:

937


985


WEEI 850 (night time only)


WEEI 1037


WAAF


edit: I'm too late on this I guess.
 

Haunted

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WRKO has a similar pattern (also an Entercom station). No idea why they'd make sure the ocean - where no one lives -is so thoroughly covered.
 

TFP

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Is this real, or is someone having a little fun with MS Paint? If it's the former, I wonder why the EEI pattern looks like this while the others are fairly symmetrical.
WRKO has a similar pattern (also an Entercom station). No idea why they'd make sure the ocean - where no one lives -is so thoroughly covered.
If you guys think about it for a bit, I bet you can spot the difference between WEEI/WRKO and all the other stations posted.
 

smastroyin

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WRKO has a similar pattern (also an Entercom station). No idea why they'd make sure the ocean - where no one lives -is so thoroughly covered.
It's not an intention, it's because there aren't any other AM stations on the ocean. At night, AM broadcasts carry farther, but that means more interference, which means less coverage as there are more signals in the mix.
 

NortheasternPJ

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C) T&R's gloating and feigned anger this morning was unseemly and not interesting radio.
Even if that bothered you, the other 210 minutes of the program today were fantastic from Fred's early rant against Jeter / ESPN, to the rant against the kid giving the ball back to the Iron Sheik.

Their worst (like the other day Fred going on about the NBA lockout and bars losing money) is still better than everything else out there.
 

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If you guys think about it for a bit, I bet you can spot the difference between WEEI/WRKO and all the other stations posted.
Ah, yes. How could I have been so blind? The answer was right in front of me: WEEI and WRKO both really, really suck.

(The AM thing is surely not a factor in their phallic radio singal)
 

Haunted

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If you guys think about it for a bit, I bet you can spot the difference between WEEI/WRKO and all the other stations posted.
Right AM.


It's not an intention, it's because there aren't any other AM stations on the ocean. At night, AM broadcasts carry farther, but that means more interference, which means less coverage as there are more signals in the mix.
My point is that other coastal AM stations don't necessarily look like the polar pattern for a shotgun microphone (hyper-cardioid).



There's WABC in NY. There's the similar spread over the ocean, but it's apparent that they're trying to cover as much actual ground as possible, whereas WEEI and WRKO look like they point directly out over the ocean.


Radio-locator won't give me WEEI's daytime coverage so it's impossible to tell right now if it's just a signal reduction thing (since they power way down at night).
 

smastroyin

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My point is that other coastal AM stations don't necessarily look like the polar pattern for a shotgun microphone (hyper-cardioid).

There's WABC in NY. There's the similar spread over the ocean, but it's apparent that they're trying to cover as much actual ground as possible, whereas WEEI and WRKO look like they point directly out over the ocean.
Every AM signal is nominally going to spread in a circle barring physical or other radio interference. The difference comes from the length the signal can travel at night and the amount of other stations in a similar band.

Beyond the fact that no two radio towers are going to show the same coverage at night due to the varying patterns of interference, WABC is a Clear Channel station, so you would expect it to have more nighttime coverage on land.

Clear-channel stations, unlike all other AM stations in North America, have a secondary service area—that is, they are entitled to protection from interference to their nighttime skywave signals.


Here is 1030 WBZ, which is a Clear Channel in Boston.


 

Haunted

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I am familiar with the clear channel stations - our own WBZ is one of them. I didn't realize that WABC was one too, but that's beside the point.

The fact remains that - even excepting some of the ocean spread, WEEI has an odd coverage pattern.
 

smastroyin

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Yes, because of the geography of the Earth, the location of their three towers, and the interference, not because they are trying to cover the ocean.

It is also worth noting that these are predicted coverages based on groundwaves at their nighttime broadcast power, so actually my earlier explanation (which is the practical reason you don't hear EEI at night) isn't right either. The reason for these odds shapes is likely the ground trasmissivity. Although it makes the maps almost completely theoretical.
 

WenZink

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The latest ratings book is great news for those that hope that one day we can have good sports radio in Boston. WEEI has been decimated and barring a miracle comeback, this summer, it has to be painfully obvious that Wolfe must go and that there must be real substantive changes made to their programming.

And while Toucher and Rich "type" of shows are not to my liking, I will give them credit for working hard and for hitting on their humorous bits much more often than not. But 98.5 The Sports Hub is far from what I'd hope for in an all sports format. Massarotti is an abomination. Gresh and Zo suck. DA is decent, but he still comes across as a 32 year old guy trying to act like a 15 year old guy.

'EEI ought to try and regain the 6 - 7 pm lead in hour to Sox broadcasts. Massarotti's Baseball Reporters is pure manure. 'EEI should drastically restructure their pre-game hour with more Bradford and Speier and try to make it substantive... even bringing them on to the Big Show during the last hour on game nights. Hopefully, the Sox streak to the World Series and the show succeeds big-time. It shouldn't be hard, after all, because over on 98.5, Tony Mazz will be spewing his bullsh*t for 60 minutes. And if substance actually works then maybe Jason Wolfe's successor will know where to take the station's programming as the contracts of Ordway, Dennis, Callahan, Adams, et. al begin to expire.
 

weeba

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Radio-locator won't give me WEEI's daytime coverage so it's impossible to tell right now if it's just a signal reduction thing (since they power way down at night).
From what I remember, it looks similar, except the outside lines are wider / encompass more of an area.

Still aims the shaft at the ocean though
 

drtooth

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Herald's MediaBiz Blog

When it became clear that “98.5 The Sports Hub” was becoming a force to reckon with last summer, WEEI execs pulled out all the stops. The AM sports radio station insisted local listeners tuning into WEEI-FM (103.7) in Providence be included in its Boston ratings - and fired off a nasty memo to “friends.”

I mentioned the memo in my column today but I’ve posted it below in its entirety. It’s signed by Entercom boss Julie Kahn and several WEEI-AM (850) personalities, including John Dennis and Michael Holley.

And if you’ve seen the latest spring ratings, you know the Sports Hub is now the dominant sports talker in town.

Dear Friends of WEEI,

As you may have heard, the management and on-air talent at CBS radio in Boston have recently embarked upon a patently false misinformation campaign in an effort to discredit our ratings supremacy in the Boston market. The Entercom family assures you that we will not tolerate these unfounded and unprofessional attacks.

So let’s set the record straight: Arbitron has publicly acknowledged that Entercom has properly reflected WEEI’s Boston ratings. In a written statement to the Herald on July 28th, Arbitron stated that their spokesperson’s previous comments “were taken out of context.”

The fact is WEEI continues to be THE dominant station with Men in the Boston market. WEEI is currently #1 with Men 25-54, and has been, for 30 of the last 35 ratings periods, including 5 of the last 6. No amount of misleading spin or on-air bluster from our competitors can change that.

Perhaps all of this is merely CBS’s way to draw attention away from the demise of WBZ-AM. Has anybody else noticed that this once formidable station now ranks out of the top 10 in both Men and Adults 25-54 in the market? Perhaps if CBS put as much effort into solving the woes of WBZ-AM rather than maligning market-leading WEEI, they might be better off.

As our partner, we know you share our disdain for our competitor’s disingenuous attempt to distort the facts.

As always, we appreciate your support.

Best Regards,

WEEI Staff
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Yes, because of the geography of the Earth, the location of their three towers, and the interference, not because they are trying to cover the ocean.

It is also worth noting that these are predicted coverages based on groundwaves at their nighttime broadcast power, so actually my earlier explanation (which is the practical reason you don't hear EEI at night) isn't right either. The reason for these odds shapes is likely the ground trasmissivity. Although it makes the maps almost completely theoretical.
The shape of their night-time signal is completely intentional. They are required by the FCC to only broadcast a directional signal in order to protect stations to the west (850s in Cleveland and Denver, to name a couple). They can boost the power on the daytime signal since it doesn't carry as well, but they're required to power it down at sundown because AM signals bounce and carry far greater distances at night.
 

smastroyin

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The shape of their night-time signal is completely intentional. They are required by the FCC to only broadcast a directional signal in order to protect stations to the west (850s in Cleveland and Denver, to name a couple). They can boost the power on the daytime signal since it doesn't carry as well, but they're required to power it down at sundown because AM signals bounce and carry far greater distances at night.

Yes, the power down is because instead of ground transmittance, which is what these maps are based on, the signal can transmit through the sky. These maps are based on ground transmittance at their nighttime power level. As such, you get much further transmittance in the water because for one thing there are no obstructions but more importantly salt water has better transmittance than soil or rock.

But that still doesn't mean they intentionally aim the signal. As far as I know, they are broadcasting from big towers (not directional antennas, which frankly I don't even know if can be used for AM, I'm not a radio guy) that transmit a signal in a circle. Unless they put up giant dampers every night along with dialing down the power, that's what is going to happen. Even a memo from Julie Kahn can't change the laws of physics.
 

th@tkid

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The shape of their night-time signal is completely intentional. They are required by the FCC to only broadcast a directional signal in order to protect stations to the west (850s in Cleveland and Denver, to name a couple). They can boost the power on the daytime signal since it doesn't carry as well, but they're required to power it down at sundown because AM signals bounce and carry far greater distances at night.
That would make sense since I can listen to the Yankees on 790 much clearer at night then during the day.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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But that still doesn't mean they intentionally aim the signal. As far as I know, they are broadcasting from big towers (not directional antennas, which frankly I don't even know if can be used for AM, I'm not a radio guy) that transmit a signal in a circle. Unless they put up giant dampers every night along with dialing down the power, that's what is going to happen. Even a memo from Julie Kahn can't change the laws of physics.
I'm not making up the fact that they use a directional signal. Look here at Radio-locator.com where it lists antenna mode: "Directional - 2 patterns". They intentionally dampen the power of their signal to the west (day and night, but more so at night) so it can't carry and cause interference. All the ground transmission stuff is exactly right, and exactly why they do it.
 

smastroyin

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I read up some more because I was interested, there are actually phasing things they can do with the three towers, so now I know more about radio broadcast.

Doesn't change the point that the pithy comments about "I don't know why they care so much about broadcasting over the ocean" don't actually reflect any reality of intent. They do it because they can and it's essentially free, not because they are stupid and are trying to capture the fisherman market instead of e.g. Worcester.
 

JenInMA

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Interrupting the ratings/coverage area talk to say the Harry Potter musical movie review to the tune Merriweather's VIP was one of the funniest things I heard in awhile. That song is going to be the gift that keeps on giving.