RIP Roy Halladay

donutogre

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Jul 20, 2005
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Unsurprisingly, Posnanski reminds me of perhaps the thing I like best about Halladay -- his control.

In 2003, when he first seemed to grasp his powers as a pitcher, Halladay struck out more than 200 batters (204, to be exact), and he walked fewer than one batter per start (32 walks in 36 starts). Only nine men in baseball history have done that over a full season.

Seven years later, in 2010, when Halladay was 33 and an established legend, he did it again. He struck out 219, and he walked 30 in 33 starts. Only one other pitcher in history has pulled that feat twice, and that was the man whose award Halladay won in each of those two seasons, Cy Young.
 

barbed wire Bob

crippled by fear
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NTSB ruled that first accident was due to pilot error - not on any defect within the plane. Still...not a good look.
It’s actually the third crash the airplane has had. I’ve been following Icon for a long time. The plane is designed to meet the Light Sport Aircraft certification which was enacted by the FAA to get more people into flying. The goal was to create a class of airplane that was inexpensive, and easy to fly. Along with that, the FAA created the Sport Pilot Certificate which was designed to make it easier for recreational pilots to get their license. It takes less hours to get a sport pilot certificate but there are more restrictions in place about what, when and where you can fly.

From what I have read, the Icon A5 is a very safe plane to fly, but the company has been marketing the plane as something akin to a jet ski with the videos and brochures emphasizing just skimming the surface of the water. In October, the company issued a series of low altitude guidelines which, I assume they were put in place in response to the bad publicity due to the recent crashes.

The company says it has 1800 deposit orders but has had problems delivering the aircraft and had to deal with a customer backlash over a controversial sales agreement that was designed to protect the company from potential lawsuits. In 2016 the company laid off a bunch of people and briefly halted production. As of July, the company has delivered only six aircraft to customers (Roy got his in October so more have been delivered but I don’t know the exact number). I get the impression the company wasn’t doing very well before this and Roy’s death certainly won’t help the company.

https://www.flyingmag.com/icon-says-a5-is-ready-to-enter-full-rate-production

https://www.iconaircraft.com/updates/2017/icon-aircraft-low-altitude-flying-guidelines

https://www.thebalance.com/faqs-the-sport-pilot-certificate-282928

https://www.flyingmag.com/icon-throws-out-controversial-purchase-agreement
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
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Aug 21, 2006
28,175
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These reckless circumstances such as this and Jose Fernandez boating accident last year are senseless. These men have families that are dependent on them. Horrible choices made. Sorry for their families to have to live with these preventable STUPID decisions.
 

canderson

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Jul 16, 2005
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What I expected, an amateur pilot acting far beyond his skill set. It’s the first thing they teach you in flight school and they follow it with saying those who act beyond their comfort level don’t live to tell their story.

Very sad for his family.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
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Nov 4, 2007
44,378
I can't imagine being out of the game at 40; spending a decade and a half pitching in front of millions of people and knowing you'll never get a thrill or rush like that for the next 50 years, all the while feeling like you were forced out of the game way too early and watching people like Brady and Colon continue to play.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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I can't imagine being out of the game at 40; spending a decade and a half pitching in front of millions of people and knowing you'll never get a thrill or rush like that for the next 50 years, all the while feeling like you were forced out of the game way too early and watching people like Brady and Colon continue to play.
You lose 1000 internet points for putting Brady and Colon in the same sentence.
 

Valek123

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Jul 13, 2005
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There is video that's been released now of people arriving in the first minutes after the crash(arguably in the first 2 minutes). The thing that astounds me is that no-one jumped out of the boat and attempted to check on the pilot, they all film it and look at it. I hope it's not the way society currently is, but it was amazing to me watching the video the lack of attempt to possibly save a human life. Odds were low, but good god if the autopsy shows he drowned in the airplane with people around him within a few minutes that did nothing but video it - it's a sad event for humanity.

I'm in no way blaming them for his death, he made the choices that contributed and or caused the crash - it just surprised me the "response" of the first arriving boats. Here's hoping that document for online hits hasn't replaced actually helping in a more global sense.
 

JoePoulson

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Feb 28, 2006
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That video is linked above. No one jumped in, I assume, because it was in the Gulf and there was plane wreckage all around. Way too dangerous.
 

uncannymanny

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Jan 12, 2007
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There is video that's been released now of people arriving in the first minutes after the crash(arguably in the first 2 minutes). The thing that astounds me is that no-one jumped out of the boat and attempted to check on the pilot, they all film it and look at it. I hope it's not the way society currently is, but it was amazing to me watching the video the lack of attempt to possibly save a human life. Odds were low, but good god if the autopsy shows he drowned in the airplane with people around him within a few minutes that did nothing but video it - it's a sad event for humanity.

I'm in no way blaming them for his death, he made the choices that contributed and or caused the crash - it just surprised me the "response" of the first arriving boats. Here's hoping that document for online hits hasn't replaced actually helping in a more global sense.
It’s likely they did check and TMZ chose not to include his dead body in their release because that would be super fucked up.
 

Average Reds

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There is video that's been released now of people arriving in the first minutes after the crash(arguably in the first 2 minutes). The thing that astounds me is that no-one jumped out of the boat and attempted to check on the pilot, they all film it and look at it. I hope it's not the way society currently is, but it was amazing to me watching the video the lack of attempt to possibly save a human life. Odds were low, but good god if the autopsy shows he drowned in the airplane with people around him within a few minutes that did nothing but video it - it's a sad event for humanity.

I'm in no way blaming them for his death, he made the choices that contributed and or caused the crash - it just surprised me the "response" of the first arriving boats. Here's hoping that document for online hits hasn't replaced actually helping in a more global sense.
When I was 14, I witnessed a seaplane crash while attempting to land on Lake Winnipesaukee. (I was at Camp Tecumseh, on the northern section of the lake.)

One of the counselors immediately grabbed a handful of campers (including me) jumped into the ski boat and headed out to it as fast as the boat could go. At approx. 60 mph, we were there in less than two minutes. About five other boats did the same thing from different parts of the lake.

By the time we arrived, people were already in the water helping the pilot and passenger out of the cockpit. (They were badly injured, but lived.) Several of us put on diving masks to check and make sure there was no one else on the boat, but other then that there was little for us to do.

I get that the people looking at Halladay's plane were in a state of disbelief. (There something surreal about watching a plane crash.) And from the looks of the plane, I'm not sure there's anything they could do to save him. That said, if they continued to shoot video without attempting to locate any passengers, that is shameful.
 

snowmanny

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Dec 8, 2005
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Brady's colon is probably super clean and healthy right? How many enemas do you think he gets a week?
If I was a psychiatrist I'd comment on the fact that every conversation with you ends up in the same (dark) place.

Anyway, he had a perfectly good run, though it's possible he was trying to recreate some thrill or overestimated his airplane coordination skills based on past performance throwing a ball.

Sad and dumb.
 

jcd0805

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Nov 3, 2007
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It’s likely they did check and TMZ chose not to include his dead body in their release because that would be super fucked up.
My thoughts too, at some point when they get close the video seems to skip and I kind of took it that the guy filming could see Roy and knew instantly he was gone, just something about the sharp intake of breath I heard and the fact that they're all looking in the water and the camera moves suddenly away from the wreckage for a minute. I don't know I could be wrong but I for sure got the feeling anyone there could see instantly that he was dead, the plane was tiny and was right there on top of the water and the Gulf pretty clear, I don't think there's any way they didn't see his body and know instantly there was no saving him.
 

Red Averages

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In the video at 1:26 the guy filming says "there he is" and starts to zoom in, then it skips.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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Yep, and remember, it was "extremely shallow" water, like a couple of feet. Pretty much no doubt from the video that they saw him, and TMZ rightly didn't let that part of the video make it to the public (although I'd be shocked if it doesn't end up on the internet at some point).
 

Average Reds

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In the video at 1:26 the guy filming says "there he is" and starts to zoom in, then it skips.
There's also the fact that the plane is not intact, which indicates a crash at full speed, not a botched landing. Which is why I made the initial comment about how the plane looked in the water.

So yeah, they probably saw Halladay and TMZ did not show the video. And maybe they were able to determine that there was no one with him. I'm just saying that from my own (very limited) experience, I'd think the first instinct is to get in the water to see if there is anyone else on board and whether there's anything that can be done.
 

crow216

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Jul 15, 2005
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Not a too much situation. Zolpidem is specifically for sleeping. You wouldn't take that unless you were trying to go to sleep or to get high. Morphine on top of that only draws worse conclusions of hard drug use.

Sucks in any case but really stinks for the family that he's going to be a bit tarnished for drug use.
 

edoug

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Jul 15, 2005
2,957
Injuries ended his career. That may be a reason why morphine was found in his system. Bringing up heroin in its story is pure sensationalism. Even when they write that there is no indication he was using it.
 

NDame616

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Jul 31, 2006
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Good thing Monday will be all Pats because Felger's victory lap will be interesting
 

jcd0805

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Good thing Monday will be all Pats because Felger's victory lap will be interesting
He got destroyed for his Halladay take so he’s not going to say anything but he was more “he was being a hot dog so I have zero sympathy”, I don’t think he mentioned drug use as a cause for the crash did he?
 

NDame616

will bailey
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Jul 31, 2006
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He got destroyed for his Halladay take so he’s not going to say anything but he was more “he was being a hot dog so I have zero sympathy”, I don’t think he mentioned drug use as a cause for the crash did he?
No but his take of "he got what he deserved" (in his opinion) will have a stronger case now. Guy being reckless when flying WHILE being stoned?
 

HriniakPosterChild

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Jul 6, 2006
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The NTSB report is out.

NYTimes: Drugs and Stunts Cited in Plane Crash That Killed Roy Halladay

The report: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20171107X60614&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=FA

The pilot had 14.5 hours of total flight experience in the accident airplane. The pilot made an entry into his logbook indicating that, while en route from the Peter O. Knight Airport in Tampa, Florida, to his home, he flew under the Skyway Bridge; the bridge has a 180-ft vertical clearance over the water. Recovered GPS data showed that the pilot flew under the bridge on October 26, 2017. A few days later, the pilot stated on social media, "flying the Icon A5 over the water is like flying a fighter jet!"
Toxicology testing performed at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Forensic Sciences Laboratory identified the following drugs in the pilot's specimens:

Zolpidem was identified in the pilot's cardiac blood (0.088 μg/ml) and urine. Zolpidem is a sleep aid available by prescription as a schedule IV controlled substance that is often sold with the name Ambien.
Amphetamine was identified in the pilot's cardiac blood (2.2 μg/ml) and urine. Amphetamine is a schedule II controlled substance that stimulates the central nervous system.
Morphine was identified in the pilot's cardiac blood (0.192 μg/ml) and urine. Morphine is a powerful opioid pain medication available as an injection, a tablet, or a capsule and is identified as a schedule II controlled substance.
Fluoxetine and its metabolite norfluoxetine were identified in the pilot's cardiac blood (0.984 and 1.569 μg/ml, respectively) and urine. Fluoxetine is an antidepressant available by prescription.
Baclofen was identified in the pilot's cardiac blood (0.72 μg/ml) and urine. Baclofen is a muscle relaxant available by prescription.
Hydromorphone was found in the pilot's urine. Hydromorphone is an opioid pain medication available by prescription as a schedule II controlled substance. Other common names are Dilaudid and Exalgo.
Review of the available personal medical records for the pilot indicated a history of substance abuse requiring inpatient rehabilitation twice between 2013 and early 2015 and diagnoses of chronic back pain, insomnia, and depression, which were treated with various prescribed medications.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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Isn’t that the combination that gets most people unless they’re going straight opiates - some uppers and some downers. Phillip Seymour Hoffman went out that way. Plus, they last in your system a bit, no? He could’ve taken the Ambien to sleep, the amps to wake up, the antidepressants at breakfast, etc.
 

drbretto

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Apr 10, 2009
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If not intentional suicide, it sure sounds like accidentally intentional suicide at least. Based on witness descriptions of his flight and the comments about how he was only able to get that thrill from doing that dip move. It was only a matter of time.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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If not intentional suicide, it sure sounds like accidentally intentional suicide at least. Based on witness descriptions of his flight and the comments about how he was only able to get that thrill from doing that dip move. It was only a matter of time.
Sounds like he had a death wish. Someone who wants to die but isn't suicidal so they do a lot of stuff that could potentially kill them.

Shrinks will often follow the question "Are you suicidal? with "Do you want to die/care if you die?"
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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I've met a handful of private pilots with acrobatic training over the years. All of them would agree that the stunts described in that article were incredibly stupid things to do when stone cold sober.
 

SemperFidelisSox

suzyn
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The family should really consider suing the doctor who prescribed that much medication. He deserves to lose his license (assuming they were all prescriptions from the same doctor).
 

Bread of Yaz

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Mar 12, 2019
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The family should really consider suing the doctor who prescribed that much medication. He deserves to lose his license (assuming they were all prescriptions from the same doctor).
Dude once reportedly flew UNDER the bridge from Tampa to St Pete, so maybe let’s not blame the doctors.
 

MuzzyField

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The bridge connects St. Pete with Manatee County to the south. This is Skyway version 2.0. A barge crashed into supports for version 1.0 and caused a deadly collapse 40 years ago next month.

At least Roy wasn't playing chicken with one of these during his low altitude high-speed pass through.
 

HriniakPosterChild

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Dude once reportedly flew UNDER the bridge from Tampa to St Pete, so maybe let’s not blame the doctors.
Reportedly?!

The pilot made an entry into his logbook indicating that, while en route from the Peter O. Knight Airport in Tampa, Florida, to his home, he flew under the Skyway Bridge; the bridge has a 180-ft vertical clearance over the water.
 

CFB_Rules

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Nov 29, 2016
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Dude once reportedly flew UNDER the bridge from Tampa to St Pete, so maybe let’s not blame the doctors.
I've been on one of those cruise ships leaving Tampa. There may have been some artistic license involved, but the captain of the ship told some of us that they go full throttle under that bridge so as to sink into the water a little more as the clearance is so tight.

And Roy flew a plane under it.
 

barbed wire Bob

crippled by fear
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I've been on one of those cruise ships leaving Tampa. There may have been some artistic license involved, but the captain of the ship told some of us that they go full throttle under that bridge so as to sink into the water a little more as the clearance is so tight.

And Roy flew a plane under it.
I knew shallow water retarded ships speed but I didn’t know about the squat effect until now.