Richards and Perez to the bullpen

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1425537700074074114?s=20


I actually think Cora might be onto something here. If these guys are able to throw harder in the pen while still being able to go multiple innings that could have a very beneficial effect on the rest of the pitching staff. Some guys have stuff that simply plays better out of the pen, Pomeranz being a notable recent example.

I've been harsh on Cora lately but I like this train of thought.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

I'm a fan. I don't know very much about Perez, but this gets a big thumbs up from me for Richards.

 

[gryoung]

Just getting them out of the starting rotation is a big positive for me.

 

[amRadio]

Richards has 68 relief innings in 59 career appearances and his rate stats are basically worse across the board in relief. ERA, k/9, WHIP, etc. all worse than his results as a starter. I don't know what that means, because on the face shortening him up and allowing him to put more juice on every pitch sounds like it should help him get outs. This could be a role he's never played in this manner and maybe it clicks. Perez is basically the same 4.50ish ERA guy no matter what his role, imo, and the career splits basically support that feeling.

I don't know if either of those guys scream "high leverage" to me.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The other half of this is Sale, clearly, and I would think Houck?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

The other half of this is Sale, clearly, and I would think Houck?

Houck is starting tomorrow.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

The other half of this is Sale, clearly, and I would think Houck?

No question. This is exactly what we all expected was coming as soon as Sale was deemed ready.

 

[normstalls]

Richards first inning 7.77 ERA bodes well for him in the bullpen.
But, at minimum, it is addition by subtraction for the rotation.

 

[YTF]

No question. This is exactly what we all expected was coming as soon as Sale was deemed ready.

Yes, seemingly it was the only path. Perhaps Ort gets a look in a few weeks if either of these guys can't cut it.

 

[RedOctober3829]

This is how I see the pitching staff breaking down right now.
SP
Sale
Eovaldi
Houck
Pivetta
ERod

CL Barnes

Primary Set Up Men
Ottavino
Whitlock
Sawamura

Matchup Oriented
vs LHP
Taylor
Davis
vs. RHP
Valdez

Long Men/Bridges to Setup Men when Winning
Perez
Richards

Short Relievers when Losing
Robles
Rios

(Brasier and Hernandez could be back soon as well)

 

[cornwalls@6]

+1 on liking/seeing the necessity of this move. If they are going to remain at all in playoff contention, they simply could not keep rolling those two out every 5th day. I'm not real confident in either of them being very effective in the pen, but at least they're in less position to damage the club's chances now.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

This is how I see the pitching staff breaking down right now.
SP
Sale
Eovaldi
Houck
Pivetta
ERod

CL Barnes

Primary Set Up Men
Ottavino
Whitlock
Sawamura

Matchup Oriented
vs LHP
Taylor
Davis
vs. RHP
Valdez

Long Men/Bridges to Setup Men when Winning
Perez
Richards

Short Relievers when Losing
Robles
Rios

(Brasier and Hernandez could be back soon as well)

Soooo, an empty bench?

A few of those guys either have to go to Worcester or the IL.

Davis, Valdez, and Rios have options. One of them is likely to go for Houck. Someone else will have to be DFA (or 60-day IL) to make room for Sale on Saturday.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Soooo, an empty bench?

A few of those guys either have to go to Worcester or the IL.

Davis, Valdez, and Rios have options. One of them is likely to go for Houck. Someone else will have to be DFA (or 60-day IL) to make room for Sale on Saturday.

Ha, yeah I didn't say who's active That's the roles if they're on the roster. I'd think Rios and Valdez would be candidates to go down. I wouldn't mind having two lefty specialist types on the roster.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

Yesterday aside (for both players)...

Should there be any consideration for Whitlock as closer?

(I know - he hasn't shown that he can pitch back-to-back in short stint high leverage situations)

 

[vadertime]

Davis, Valdez, and Rios have options. One of them is likely to go for Houck. Someone else will have to be DFA (or 60-day IL) to make room for Sale on Saturday.

Andriese or Santana would be my guess. Andriese is buried on the depth chart now, and Santana wouldn't exactly be missed.

 

[YTF]

Andriese or Santana would be my guess. Andriese is buried on the depth chart now, and Santana wouldn't exactly be missed.

As much as I want Santana DFAed (like 2 months ago), I think Andriese makes the most sense of the two ATM. Is he still on rehab?

 

[grepal]

Please let it be Andriese, I can not remember any game he pitched well in this year, not one. At least Santana and Gonzalez play a lot of positions, Santana could be a pinch runner but with Santana, Gonzalez, Cordero and Dalbec we have three players who could wind up hitting below .200, and we typically play two a day. Hard to compete with 22 to 33 percent of your lineup performing at that level. For that level of hitting you want the '65 Dodgers rotation and speed if you want a chance to win it all.

 

[grimshaw]

They really don't need Andriese anymore with Richards, Perez and perhaps Valdez able to go multiple innings. I can't imagine they'd DFA the new acquisitions, and Valdez seems more valuable.

 

[YTF]

They really don't need Andriese anymore with Richards, Perez and perhaps Valdez able to go multiple innings. I can't imagine they'd DFA the new acquisitions, and Valdez seems more valuable.

And even though they are different handed, Richards and Perez are almost redundant in the role that they'll be filling.

 

[RIrooter09]

And even though they are different handed, Richards and Perez are almost redundant in the role that they'll be filling.

Yeah but why not give both of them some time to possibly excel and then release the weaker one?

 

[Rovin Romine]

Yeah but why not give both of them some time to possibly excel and then release the weaker one?

I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of steel-cage match.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

For all the focus on getting a bat and the feeling that the Sox are wasting tons of AB's on pretty mediocre players - it's worth noting that this isn't terribly uncommon, especially among AL WC contenders.

The problem really has been with the starters. While a Quality Start isn't a terribly great statistic, the Sox are only getting one in 1 out of 4 starts, well below the AL average (33%), and better than only the Orioles (20%), and Twins (23%); and even with the Rays, although the Rays sporadic usage of openers skews this a bit.

The Sox starters are 39-35, which sounds not great, but is in line with Tampa (28-25) and the Yankees (31-31). Oddly , the Jays are an outlier; a rare AL contender with a medicore pen (starters are 41-31). Stros and ChiSox are really a step above anyone else (49-24 and 45-29, respectively).

What's odd is that the Sox haven't really had to go into their SP depth much (which is good, b/c they don't really have any), several of their starters have been crappy, but they've also taken the ball nearly every time out.

I've been thinking that the Sox top relievers are overworked, but compared to the other contenders, that doesn't really seem to be true. All the primary relievers on each contender seem to be in the same range of games / IP.

I guess this is a long way of saying that the Sox seem to have a lot of issues and they seem ominous when comparing to other successful Sox teams, but the game has changed a bit and when stacking up against the AL East contenders, the Sox are not in terrible shape and moving Richards / Perez to the pen for better starters should, at least conceivably, give the team a reasonable boost and if we can get anything in relief from either of these guys, it's gravy.

 

[MtPleasant Paul]

Great Post. Where did you get the information on team quality starts?

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Great Post. Where did you get the information on team quality starts?

baseball reference!

 

[YTF]

View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1425537700074074114?s=20


I actually think Cora might be onto something here. If these guys are able to throw harder in the pen while still being able to go multiple innings that could have a very beneficial effect on the rest of the pitching staff. Some guys have stuff that simply plays better out of the pen, Pomeranz being a notable recent example.

I've been harsh on Cora lately but I like this train of thought.

If Cora truly believed this, he had the perfect opportunity to test drive it when Houck left Thursday's game trailing 3-1. I truly don't like shitting all over Cora, but nearly everyone in that bullpen had the previous day off. Taylor pitches 2/3 of an inning and Hansel Robles is the next man up, followed by Austin? Where was Garrett Whitlock? I get they are trying to manage his innings, but Jesus H. you're down by 2 runs with a limited offense and the outcome of the game will leave you either 3 games or 5 games behind the division leader.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yes it’s only one game and yes it’s against the terrible Orioles but I like that Cora used Richards to get multiple innings tonight. This is exactly the way he and Perez should be used. The game was not close and Richards going three gives everyone a rest.

 

[soxhop411]

Yes it’s only one game and yes it’s against the terrible Orioles but I like that Cora used Richards to get multiple innings tonight. This is exactly the way he and Perez should be used. The game was not close and Richards going three gives everyone a rest.

View: https://twitter.com/SlangsOnSports/status/1426368603599908865

Garrett RIchards is the 3rd Red Sox pitcher with a 3+ inning save this year (Tanner Houck, Garrett Whitlock) The last time they had 3 diff pitchers with at least one 3+ inning save in a season was 2002: Frank Castillo Willie Banks Tim Wakefield (3) Chris Haney Rolando Arrojo

Also made history

 

[DisgruntledSoxFan77]

View: https://twitter.com/SlangsOnSports/status/1426368603599908865

Also made history

That’s quite the list…

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

View: https://twitter.com/SlangsOnSports/status/1426368603599908865

Also made history

I wouldn't really classify that as making history. 1st (Red Sox) team since...2002 isn't that historic. Maybe if it was in "the modern era", then yes, I would say that 'making history' would fit. I mean, historic means... a historical occurrence. Maybe the term you meant was vicennialic? Or just,' something I found neat?'

 

[mfried]

Having three bullpen arms who can go multiple innings might turn out to be just as big a story as the return of Sale and promotion of Houck. Right now, Tanner looks like a 5-inning pitcher, and Sale will hopefully be able to go 6, but the foul balls driving up his pitch count makes long relief a valuable asset.

 

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Let's not get carried away. Most 3 inning relief appearances are going to be in games where one team is clobbering the other. There's some value in providing rest to the important members of the bullpen but Garret Richards being the human equivalent of the Auerbach cigar/white flag is not going to match Chris Sale pitching like Chris Sale.

 

[chawson]

Let's not get carried away. Most 3 inning relief appearances are going to be in games where one team is clobbering the other. There's some value in providing rest to the important members of the bullpen but Garret Richards being the human equivalent of the Auerbach cigar/white flag is not going to match Chris Sale pitching like Chris Sale.

On the other hand, the starters were scheduled to face between now and the Tampa series are Lopez, Zimmermann, Montgomery, Cole, Heaney, Lyles, Allard, Howard, Coulombe, Maeda, Barnes, McKenzie, Quantrill, and Morgan, with both good Yankee pitchers recovering from COVID. I hope there’ll be some more laughers in there.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Having three bullpen arms who can go multiple innings might turn out to be just as big a story as the return of Sale and promotion of Houck. Right now, Tanner looks like a 5-inning pitcher, and Sale will hopefully be able to go 6, but the foul balls driving up his pitch count makes long relief a valuable asset.

Whitlock having a couple 2-3 inning outings in the close games, Perez/Richards pitching the cigar/white flag innings, and hopefully you can get the important short guys (Barnes, Ottavino, Taylor) rested up a bit in the short term. It is impractical to carry three guys for that kind of role over the long term though. Especially when none of them can be stashed for a couple weeks when the roster gets crowded. Which is going to happen sooner than later. They can only play option games with Houck for so long, plus Darwinzon and Andriese are due back from rehab shortly. They're going to encounter a situation where they have to either cut one of them loose entirely (I won't shed a tear if they do), or send optionable guys down which might result in one of the former starters being needed in a short and close type outing.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Let's not get carried away. Most 3 inning relief appearances are going to be in games where one team is clobbering the other. There's some value in providing rest to the important members of the bullpen but Garret Richards being the human equivalent of the Auerbach cigar/white flag is not going to match Chris Sale pitching like Chris Sale.

Except this is 3 inning saves, so is the victory cigar, not the white flag. That's a good thing.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I don’t have particular high hopes, but could Richards be an effective reliever down the stretch? I feel like his stuff is good, seems like he is lacking in confidence and is frustrated but in small stints, could his stuff play up better than a guy like Rios or Robles? He’s done it before. I wouldn’t expect him to get many high leverage innings and there’s not tons of time left, but the team does need to find another reliever that isn’t a white flag or close your eyes and pray guy (although that’s probably what Richards is and I’m overreacting to a garbage time mop up performance against a terrible team).

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

His first inning numbers as a starter are pretty bad this year, so unless he changes his methodology, I don't see this change being a consistently good move

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Yeah it’s probably wishful thinking on my part. I kind of think if the Sox do make the playoffs and advance to an actual series, rotation of a Sale-Eo-Edro-Pivetta is the way to go with Houck, Whitlock, Ottavino, Barnes, Sawamura, and Taylor being the key bullpen guys

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

His first inning numbers as a starter are pretty bad this year, so unless he changes his methodology, I don't see this change being a consistently good move

I guess this goes to the question of his methodology. What are the causes of his first-inning problems? (Not asking you, just thinking out loud) If it is because he is trying to establish his fastball, and not show his secondary and tertiary pitches, then that could be mitigated by being a reliever. If it is '" he is just slow to get into the game", that would be different.

 

[MFYankees]

I guess this goes to the question of his methodology. What are the causes of his first-inning problems? (Not asking you, just thinking out loud) If it is because he is trying to establish his fastball, and not show his secondary and tertiary pitches, then that could be mitigated by being a reliever. If it is '" he is just slow to get into the game", that would be different.

What I'd read, which could be pure BS, is that he was too worried at the beginning of a game about throwing strikes and so his pitches got too much of the plate. Again, it could be pure BS, but if not then it doesn't bode well for relief.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

What I'd read, which could be pure BS, is that he was too worried at the beginning of a game about throwing strikes and so his pitches got too much of the plate. Again, it could be pure BS, but if not then it doesn't bode well for relief.

That makes sense. The first batter he faced last night had a fat pitch and ripped it for a single, which would have been a double in any other ballpark. Fortunately, after that, he settled down and was perfectly cromulent.