Rename the Red Sox AAA Team!

terrynever

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As someone involved in developing a National Park across the street from Apex, we (and the Slater Mill folks) were as interested in the proposed retail and restaurants that were part of the bigger package as the stadium itself. I feel that one of the biggest failings of this proposal was focusing on just the new McCoy, and not the rest of the development proposed for the immediate area which also included a hotel and some new apartments.
Thanks, Bro. You know a helluva lot more than me on this subject.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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The Coney Island of my mind
I will give you an example of what a new stadium downtown might have done. I was recently talking with the owner of a new bookstore downtown, a guy who signed a two-year lease in 2018 before the stadium deal collapsed. He says he will be leaving when the lease expires. He signed on because of the hope a new stadium would revitalize downtown. Now he says there is not even a CVS or convenience store to attract people. The mayor and his staff haven’t stopped in in more than a year. The stadium would have been a magnet business. Six months of activity, bringing people into the downtown, with new business gradually filling in.
I’m not an economics whiz, just someone who has lived here for 37 years. What is your perspective?
My perspective is that thirty-seven year residents of Pawtucket who are ready to buy into a sack of magic beans has more that a little to do with why Pawtucket is where it is today, and that your friend took out a lease based on what is essentially the supply-side, trickle down equivalent of urban economic development. It was, at best, a modest proposal beyond the seasonally-viable ballpark itself, dropped into an area surrounded by tight surface roads and an interstate that already backs up well before, during, and after peak hours.

Edit to add: Of course, the state didn't and still doesn't own the land they proposed building their sand castle on. Of course, eminent domain acquisition only takes what, a few weeks?
 

terrynever

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My perspective is that thirty-seven year residents of Pawtucket who are ready to buy into a sack of magic beans has more that a little to do with why Pawtucket is where it is today, and that your friend took out a lease based on what is essentially the supply-side, trickle down equivalent of urban economic development. It was, at best, a modest proposal beyond the seasonally-viable ballpark itself, dropped into an area surrounded by tight surface roads and an interstate that already backs up well before, during, and after peak hours.

Edit to add: Of course, the state didn't and still doesn't own the land they proposed building their sand castle on. Of course, eminent domain acquisition only takes what, a few weeks?
The RI Senate also believed the magic beans theory. It was essentially killed by one person with the power to overrule so many of his legislative colleagues.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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I am not a finance guy, so I can't tell you if the deal in Pawtucket would have worked. As far as public money goes, it was certainly a better deal than what Worcester is saddled with. It is also undeniable that there is almost nothing within walking distance of McCoy that qualify as pre or post game attractions for fans. There is the chinese joint across the street and diner in the parking lot.

So the bigger question is whether a $38 million dollar investment by the State and the City of Pawtucket in a stadium would have attracted enough additional private investment in shops, restaurants, etc in the adjacent area to generate enough revenue to pay back the public investment. We'll never know. On Monday they are going to announce the new plan for McCoy and/or the Apex site. Let's see how much public money will be invested in this one.

https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20191127/plans-for-mccoy-stadium-downtown-pawtucket-to-be-announced-monday
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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The RI Senate also believed the magic beans theory. It was essentially killed by one person with the power to overrule so many of his legislative colleagues.
I'm not sure falling back on the collective wisdom of a bunch of guys who approved the 38 Studios deal is where you want to take your argument.

I don't disagree that the structure of the RI legislature and state government in general is anything short of ludicrous, and I was specifically hoping that Matiello's decision to kill the ballpark was going to cost him his job. But the long, rich history of publically-funded stadium deals suggests that Worcester's "gain" is not necessarily our loss.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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For those who care, the latest proposal for Pawtucket. This one looking for $70-90 million in public funding and includes a minor league soccer stadium

"A developer plans to anchor a $400-million development, potentially the largest in Pawtucket’s history, around a minor-league professional soccer team and riverfront stadium, city and state leaders announced Monday.

Fortuitous Partners, led by Brown University graduate Brett Johnson, wants to put a soccer-specific stadium on the site of a former National Grid-manufactured gas plant, known as the Tidewater Site, on the west bank of the Seekonk River.

On the east bank, across a new footbridge and public park, Fortuitous envisions 200 apartments above shops. And north of Route 95, on the “Apex” property where a year ago plans for a minor-league baseball stadium collapsed, Fortuitous wants to build a 200-room hotel with “indoor sports event center” and 200,000 square feet of office space, according to city and state officials.."

https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20191202/developer-wants-to-build-400-million-project-in-pawtucket-including-soccer-stadium
 

yeahlunchbox

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I am not a finance guy, so I can't tell you if the deal in Pawtucket would have worked. As far as public money goes, it was certainly a better deal than what Worcester is saddled with. It is also undeniable that there is almost nothing within walking distance of McCoy that qualify as pre or post game attractions for fans. There is the chinese joint across the street and diner in the parking lot.

So the bigger question is whether a $38 million dollar investment by the State and the City of Pawtucket in a stadium would have attracted enough additional private investment in shops, restaurants, etc in the adjacent area to generate enough revenue to pay back the public investment. We'll never know. On Monday they are going to announce the new plan for McCoy and/or the Apex site. Let's see how much public money will be invested in this one.

https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20191127/plans-for-mccoy-stadium-downtown-pawtucket-to-be-announced-monday
Apparently taxpayers will contribute $70-90 million of the $400 million project which includes a 7500 seat USL soccer stadium, but all of it will come from sales and hotel taxes from the new development. They're still looking to purchase the Apex site and use it as part of this development, but there are no plans yet for what to do with McCoy. This does not require further approval from our dysfunctional General Assembly and will supposedly bring in seven times as much as the failed PawSox proposal.

https://www.wpri.com/business-news/soccer-stadium-part-of-400m-redevelopment-plan-for-pawtucket/
 

terrynever

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For those who care, the latest proposal for Pawtucket. This one looking for $70-90 million in public funding and includes a minor league soccer stadium

"A developer plans to anchor a $400-million development, potentially the largest in Pawtucket’s history, around a minor-league professional soccer team and riverfront stadium, city and state leaders announced Monday.

Fortuitous Partners, led by Brown University graduate Brett Johnson, wants to put a soccer-specific stadium on the site of a former National Grid-manufactured gas plant, known as the Tidewater Site, on the west bank of the Seekonk River.

On the east bank, across a new footbridge and public park, Fortuitous envisions 200 apartments above shops. And north of Route 95, on the “Apex” property where a year ago plans for a minor-league baseball stadium collapsed, Fortuitous wants to build a 200-room hotel with “indoor sports event center” and 200,000 square feet of office space, according to city and state officials.."

https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20191202/developer-wants-to-build-400-million-project-in-pawtucket-including-soccer-stadium
I care. Pretty exciting news, if it happens.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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The Coney Island of my mind
For those who care, the latest proposal for Pawtucket. This one looking for $70-90 million in public funding and includes a minor league soccer stadium

"A developer plans to anchor a $400-million development, potentially the largest in Pawtucket’s history, around a minor-league professional soccer team and riverfront stadium, city and state leaders announced Monday.

Fortuitous Partners, led by Brown University graduate Brett Johnson, wants to put a soccer-specific stadium on the site of a former National Grid-manufactured gas plant, known as the Tidewater Site, on the west bank of the Seekonk River.

On the east bank, across a new footbridge and public park, Fortuitous envisions 200 apartments above shops. And north of Route 95, on the “Apex” property where a year ago plans for a minor-league baseball stadium collapsed, Fortuitous wants to build a 200-room hotel with “indoor sports event center” and 200,000 square feet of office space, according to city and state officials.."

https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20191202/developer-wants-to-build-400-million-project-in-pawtucket-including-soccer-stadium
At first glance, this is much closer to the Worcester deal, which turned into more of a big urban revitalization project that happened to include a ballpark. Devil's in the details, of course, but it would be hard to be worse than having an open-air, minor league ballpark in New Freaking England act as the linchpin to economic development in the area.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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I care. Pretty exciting news, if it happens.
I'd say it will happen one way or another - Gina, Mattiello and Ruggerio were all at the announcement singing praises. If all of this comes together along with the development people have been talking up around the new train station, Pawtucket might have a pulse again. Nothing in here about reusing McCoy so that is still up in the air.

https://www.ri.gov/press/view/37239
 

terrynever

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I'd say it will happen one way or another - Gina, Mattiello and Ruggerio were all at the announcement singing praises. If all of this comes together along with the development people have been talking up around the new train station, Pawtucket might have a pulse again. Nothing in here about reusing McCoy so that is still up in the air.

https://www.ri.gov/press/view/37239
No internal politics! That’s amazing in and of itself. The political leaders must have realized that Pawtucket needs a boost.
Soccer might be a better choice than baseball over the long haul.
 

yeahlunchbox

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I'd say it will happen one way or another - Gina, Mattiello and Ruggerio were all at the announcement singing praises. If all of this comes together along with the development people have been talking up around the new train station, Pawtucket might have a pulse again. Nothing in here about reusing McCoy so that is still up in the air.

https://www.ri.gov/press/view/37239
Where is the new train station going to be located?
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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Where is the new train station going to be located?
The new station will be at Pine Street and Goff Ave, near the CF border. It is just south of the old Conant Thread/ JP Coats mill which are targeted for redevelopment to take advantage of the new station which is due to open in 2022. They are moving the main Pawtucket bus hub over there next summer, so it will be the main transportation link for the whole city.

https://www.conantthread.com/
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Any idea where I could get a safely buy a good quality WooSox T shirt for a distance-challenged friend? MILB has a shopping page, but they only have a Worcester Red Sox shirt for adult males, the WooSox shirt (with the silly mascot) is just in kids sizes.

Neither woosox.com nor worcesterredsox.com seem to be active websites yet