Red Sox trade Franklin Morales & Chris Martin for Jonathan Herrera

Puffy

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seantoo said:
Puffy, should JBJ go down with an injury Victorino slides over to center as you noted. Who then moves to RF. I know Nava filled in there last season but surely that is not plan B this year, nor was it last season.
 
I don't know. I would assume Nava plays RF if JBJ is nursing an injury. I was just observing that under the roster may be set as is, if they go with their usual 4-man bench (eg, Ross, Carp, Herrera, Gomes).  
 
My point is that there isn't really room on the roster for an additional outfielder without changing their roster configuration or trading someone like Gomes, Carp, or Nava. I could see them using Nava as Plan B for RF. All they need is some OF depth in AAA in that case (Brentz, Hassan?).  
 
In fact, I would expect the next move to be something along those lines, AAA outfield depth. I wonder if they will be able to keep Castellanos. 
 

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Sprowl said:
This deal is not exactly selling high on Morales, but sooner or later Fenway would have been the death of him: a flyball pitcher with a strong platoon split and a vulnerability to RHB pull power. With Breslow, Miller and Britton lined up as lefty relievers, Morales was supernumerary; with six experienced major-league starters and a logjam in Pawtucket, Morales wasn't going to get many spot starts either.
 
Somebody opined that this would bump Dempster to the bullpen but, if he gets traded, Britton might better balance their bullpen as one of two long men/spot starters with Workman as his righty counterpart.
 

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Plympton91 said:
How is Herrera different from Holt?  Does Holt have options so that this builds a liittle bit of depth into the middle infield that is lacking it?
 
FWIW, both Herrera and Holt have options.  I suppose they could still add another infielder at the ML level and have both Holt and Herrera as depth in Pawtucket.
 

The Best Catch in 100 Years

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Puffy said:
 
I don't know. I would assume Nava plays RF if JBJ is nursing an injury. I was just observing that under the roster may be set as is, if they go with their usual 4-man bench (eg, Ross, Carp, Herrera, Gomes).  
 
My point is that there isn't really room on the roster for an additional outfielder without changing their roster configuration or trading someone like Gomes, Carp, or Nava. I could see them using Nava as Plan B for RF. All they need is some OF depth in AAA in that case (Brentz, Hassan?).  
 
In fact, I would expect the next move to be something along those lines, AAA outfield depth. I wonder if they will be able to keep Castellanos. 
They don't have anyone to play CF in Pawtucket next year right now. I assume a minor league free agent is coming in to do that. That guy, along with Hassan and Brentz, and all the assets they can could use to bring in a starting-quality CF or RF in-season if Victorino or JBJ is out for the year or something, seems like enough cover.
 

Plympton91

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The Best Catch in 100 Years said:
They don't have anyone to play CF in Pawtucket next year right now. I assume a minor league free agent is coming in to do that. That guy, along with Hassan and Brentz, and all the assets they can could use to bring in a starting-quality CF or RF in-season if Victorino or JBJ is out for the year or something, seems like enough cover.Po
 
Hell, who's the starting CF in Portland next year?  This is not an area of depth in the organization.  And, that's one of the reasons I wanted them to sign Ellsbury at pretty much any cost.
 

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Rudy Pemberton said:
That doesn't make sense. They have Bradley at CF for the near future. Giving Ellsbury a blank check because there's little depth in the system is silly given that the starter is 23 years old.
 
Nice to know that Bradley is guaranteed to be a quality starter on a championship caliber team, that Victorino's 2013-level production is also guaranteed, and that neither of them will miss considerable time over the next several seasons. Also, leaving CF aside for a moment, the only other organizational option for RF is Brentz, and he is 1) clearly not ready yet, 2) not guaranteed to be ready ever given his high whiff rate, and 3) not necessarily a good enough outfielder for Fenway's RF.   Hassan, the best hitting prospect among outfielders above A-ball, is assuredly not good enough defensively for Fenway's RF. 
 
If one of Bradley or Victorino falters, there's going to be a main board thread titled, "Will the Yankees trade Ichiro to Boston?"
 

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Rudy Pemberton said:
So, the Sox should have given Ellsbury 140M in case Bradley and Victorino faltered? What if Jacoby got hurt?.
 
Then Bradley steps in.  It's called deep depth.  Something I heard some team somewhere decided was a good idea in 2013.
 

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I don't understand that anyone is even remotely concerned with he inclusion of Martin to improve an area of need.  We aren't talking about a 19 year old lottery ticket, or a starter with #3 upside.  He's a reliever!!!! He was merely average when pitching for Pawtucket, striking out less than a batter per nine with an average WHIP.  He is the easiest thing to replace on the Pawtucket roster
 

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lexrageorge said:
So, what does Morales have to do with Ellsbury?  
Morales was traded for a utility infielder, and so somebody said that all they needed now was a backup CF, and then someone pointed out that in order to have a backup CF you have to trade Carp, Nava, or Gomes, and I pointed out that's why Ellsbury in the majors and Bradley at Pawtucket would allieviate the need for a backup CF (or a backup rightfielder, which the Red Sox also don't obviously have either).
 

bombdiggz

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I don't understand that anyone is even remotely concerned with he inclusion of Martin to improve an area of need.  We aren't talking about a 19 year old lottery ticket, or a starter with #3 upside.  He's a reliever!!!! He was merely average when pitching for Pawtucket, striking out less than a batter per nine with an average WHIP.  He is the easiest thing to replace on the Pawtucket roster
Well, It's not the end of the world, but he was relatively close to being an option in the pen. A righty with a nice fastball with good sink.
 
It does seem like you are being a bit disingenuous though by describing him as someone who struck out less than a batter per nine with an average WHIP. Yes, his WHIP was 1.20 and his k/9 8.29 in Pawtucket, but in total last year, his WHIP was just over 1 and his k/9 well over 9.
 

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Plympton91 said:
Morales was traded for a utility infielder, and so somebody said that all they needed now was a backup CF, and then someone pointed out that in order to have a backup CF you have to trade Carp, Nava, or Gomes, and I pointed out that's why Ellsbury in the majors and Bradley at Pawtucket would allieviate the need for a backup CF (or a backup rightfielder, which the Red Sox also don't obviously have either).
 
It's funny, but when you write it out that way, it almost looks like there was an unbroken thread of conversation regarding Herrera and how it fits in to our expectations for future moves and the 2014 Sox, and then you brought up a guy who has nothing to do with either of those things so you could continue to harp on one of your Negative Nancy talking points that became a closed issue weeks ago.  
 

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bombdiggz said:
Well, It's not the end of the world, but he was relatively close to being an option in the pen. A righty with a nice fastball with good sink.
 
It does seem like you are being a bit disingenuous though by describing him as someone who struck out less than a batter per nine with an average WHIP. Yes, his WHIP was 1.20 and his k/9 8.29 in Pawtucket, but in total last year, his WHIP was just over 1 and his k/9 well over 9.
 
True, but like almost any player, unless they are dominate talents, they're numbers will most likely take a hit as they move up levels and take on better competition.  I know there is the argument that generally a teams best "talent" is in AA, but it is more or less raw where AAA has more "established" players.
 
RP is the hardest to value, because one bad outing can greatly skew a pitcher's ERA, which seems to be how many relievers are valued.  If he was truly a special pen arm, he should have put up video game numbers in AAA.  Hell I bet you could look at Pawtucket's pitching stats each year for the last 15 years and find a guy that had a dominate relief season only to be never heard from again
 

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I think I like the move. The thread, not so much.
Morales had to go, so it looks like they got a useful piece for him, though they probably had to throw Martin in to convince Colorado they really wanted him back.
I'm looking forward to the day when my posts are attacked based on reputation. I'll try to be more inflammatory.
 

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I would have assumed that they wanted a plus defensive infielder who could play any position with an average to above average OBP* if they could get one. That they got a cost controlled one blows my mind.
 
Yeah, UIF moves are small beans in the larger scheme, but the consistency of that scheme and the overall effectiveness of the FO in executing that scheme kicks serious ass.
 
 
*This article, which we've posted elsewhere as well, explains why a consistent roster of high OBP batters makes OBP more valuable in relation to power. This may well be a market issue that the Red Sox are trying to exploit, i.e. that low power high OBP guys have greater value to the Red Sox than to other teams with a less consistent OBP line-up.
 
 
 

Stanley Steamer said:
I think I like the move. The thread, not so much.
Morales had to go, so it looks like they got a useful piece for him, though they probably had to throw Martin in to convince Colorado they really wanted him back.
I'm looking forward to the day when my posts are attacked based on reputation. I'll try to be more inflammatory.
 
Are you by any chance a lawyer?
 

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The Mort Report said:
 
True, but like almost any player, unless they are dominate talents, they're numbers will most likely take a hit as they move up levels and take on better competition.  I know there is the argument that generally a teams best "talent" is in AA, but it is more or less raw where AAA has more "established" players.
 
RP is the hardest to value, because one bad outing can greatly skew a pitcher's ERA, which seems to be how many relievers are valued.  If he was truly a special pen arm, he should have put up video game numbers in AAA.  Hell I bet you could look at Pawtucket's pitching stats each year for the last 15 years and find a guy that had a dominate relief season only to be never heard from again
 
I smell a challenge!
 
Ok, these first ones are tricky because these guys might actually live to put up another decent season
 
2012 - Will Inman - 2.23 ERA (maybe Justin Germano, but he was mostly a starter)
2011 - Tommy Hottovy - 2.75
2010 - Robert Manual - 1.68 (maybe he got hurt? The following year he was in the Indy leagues)
2009 - Rocky Cherry - 2.57 (ok, he had a crazy high WHIP, but Rocky Cherry! Awesome! Marcus McBeth was also inexplicably good and then never again)
2008 - Hunter Jones - 3.02 
2007 - Travis Hughes - 1.97 (Huh, he went to Japan the following year was never really good again)
2006 - Jermaine Van Buren - 2.98
2005 - Marc Deschens - 2.94 (granted in only 33 innings)
2004 -  Brandon Puffer - 3.26 (Man, rough year for the Pawtucket bullpen. No wonder they needed to trade for Leskanic. You could say Scott Cassidy at 3.46 instead, although he pitched (not very well) in MLB a little later)
2003 - Matt White - 1.97 (The Pride of Pittsfield!)
2002 - Todd "The Number" Erdos - 3.22
 
Ok, that was a fun half hour. You said 15 years, but my eyes are starting to glaze over. 
 

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Not a block buster, but seriously, what's not to like? Plays 3 infield positions, primarily MI which is what you need since X can cover 3rd. They're all set behind the plate, first base is covered and the outfield may be as well depending on JBJ. Herrera is first year arb eligible this season, but isn't going to make a ton. Seems to be a decent fielder, doesn't hit for a lot of production, but how many guys in this position do? He fills a need and Morales is expendable. I also feel that Ben's not quite done yet, but yeah I think this team as currently constructed can go out there and play well. My one concern is that Carp, Nava and the pitching staff may have over achieved a bit last season, but as I said, I don't feel that Ben is quite done yet. I just can't see Dempster in the bullpen as some have suggested. What would his role there be? I think he has more value to other teams and is moved.
 

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Rudy Pemberton said:
That doesn't make sense. They have Bradley at CF for the near future. Giving Ellsbury a blank check because there's little depth in the system is silly given that the starter is 23 years old.
 
But who is the starting CF in Portland! It's almost like you care less about the Sea Dogs make the playoffs in '14 than the Red Sox having a UI.
 
Drew, Drew, Drew.
 
This deal is easy to evaluate.  They needed a UI to back up 2B, SS, and 3B.  Holt isn't good.  Evidently, Herrera can handle those positions defensively and isn't a prospect, so sitting on the bench hurting his development isn't a concern.  Morales was expendable.  Lock the thread.
 

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Hee Sox Choi said:
This may be a rhetorical question but I wonder if an agent like Boras would present to the Red Sox a statistical analysis of why Will Middlebrooks is not a good player in order to sell them on bringing back Drew.  Would that be considered bad business (assuming Boras doesn't represent Middlebrooks obviously)?  Would that be considered a total scumbag move on Boras' part?  I wonder if agents do stuff like that.  Of course, if the agent of the player being backstabbed found out, they would be pretty pissed off and it might ruin Boras' reputation.  Or is everything fair game when agents are trying to get their client top dollar?  Boras could hand over the RED BINDER of why Middlebrooks isn't going to make it and then ask for it back at the end of the meeting (leaving no evidence) and then deny it if it ever came out.  
 
Just wondering if anyone has any insight on this.  IMO it would be pretty dirty but I don't know much about the agency underworld.
Boras would definitely provide #s showing the Sox how much Drew improves their chances of winning, and their is no way of doing that without projecting Xander at SS and WMB at 3rd.
 

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dbn said:
Drew.
 

 
But who is the starting CF in Portland! It's almost like you care less about the Sea Dogs make the playoffs in '14 than the Red Sox having a UI.
 
.
Yeah, that was the point. Exactly.
 

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benhogan said:
Boras would definitely provide #s showing the Sox how much Drew improves their chances of winning, and their is no way of doing that without projecting Xander at SS and WMB at 3rd.
 
I doubt that those numbers would turn out Drew's way. Drew's numbers with the Red Sox, fine though they were, would be blown out of the water by Iggy's small but beautiful retrospective sample, regardless of what other prospects' projections might look like.
 
Back on topic, the Red Sox got a good year and a mediocre year out of Morales' cheap years. I'm just glad he didn't end up on the Yankees.
 
I'm not worried about what almost past-it veteran CF the team might stash at Pawtucket in case Bradley or Victorino gets injured. There are always Marlon Byrds flying around.
 

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Sprowl said:
 
I doubt that those numbers would turn out Drew's way. Drew's numbers with the Red Sox, fine though they were, would be blown out of the water by Iggy's small but beautiful retrospective sample, regardless of what other prospects' projections might look like.
 
Brief comment. I heard Boras on MLB a few weeks ago and in his player briefs he includes a stat called WSWAR.  Meaning the player's value over 182 games versus the regular 162.  If you're a team that's likely to make the playoffs you're getting more value than the 162 game contract you're signing the player for.   (Seattle better start making the playoffs.)
 

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Plympton91 said:
 
Hell, who's the starting CF in Portland next year?  This is not an area of depth in the organization.  And, that's one of the reasons I wanted them to sign Ellsbury at pretty much any cost.
Probably Henry Ramos.  He turned a bit of a corner in 2012 at Greenville, then built on that in winter league play and then went to Salem and his best pro season to date over 129 games.
 
The low minors also have a lot of high upside types kicking around.  Manuel Margot is the obvious high upside player, but assuming Forrestt Allday's defense is good enough to stick in CF he's a 22 year old collegian with an incredibly advanced plate approach for his age.  He went straight to Lowell after being drafted and put up a .418 OBP.  He'll likely join Margot in Greenville next year.
 
That said, yes, there is definitely a high minors talent gap at CF, but I wouldn't view that as a reason to blank checked Ellsbury.  Bradley is a legitimate ML prospect and worthwhile alternatives can be acquired via far less expensive means.
 
One such move would be going after recent Cuban defection Rusney Castillo.  He's 26 and his speed is considered his best tool.  As a result he likely won't get chased with the same fervor (read: money) that Cespedes, Puig, and Abreu got since those guys all featured HR power while Castillo is more of a doubles guy.  Getting him on a few million a year deal and starting him in AAA, then moving a pitcher for a prospect could instead focus on getting the Sox an A+/AA prospect with some upside to fill the gap between Margot/Allday and Ramos.
 
The off-season isn't over yet.  If we're talking about organizational gaps what about AAA.
 
To the trade this thread originated off of though: Herrera looks like a solid pick up.  He doesn't block a superior utility acquisition (such as Drew) as he could be moved to AAA and play SS with Holt at 2B, in which case the team has very good depth up the middle.  If they can't get a better UI on a reasonable deal he and Holt would be worthwhile competition with each other for the job, with Herrera being the more legitimate SS defender if needed of the two.
 
I'd like to see them add a bit more organizational depth at both SS and CF though.  I wouldn't be opposed to them giving KC Serna a crack at affiliated ball again as a MI long shot for example.  This is the time of year when the FO does their long term planning plugs potential leaks.  Last year this same group pretty much hit that part of organizational management out of the park, so they get a ton of slack until we see the final roster this year.
 

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Sprowl said:
 
I doubt that those numbers would turn out Drew's way. Drew's numbers with the Red Sox, fine though they were, would be blown out of the water by Iggy's small but beautiful retrospective sample, regardless of what other prospects' projections might look like.
 
Back on topic, the Red Sox got a good year and a mediocre year out of Morales' cheap years. I'm just glad he didn't end up on the Yankees.
 
I'm not worried about what almost past-it veteran CF the team might stash at Pawtucket in case Bradley or Victorino gets injured. There are always Marlon Byrds flying around.
I'd think, and I'm only guessing here, that Boras' would have 2014 projections for WMB at 3rd + X at SS + Herrera as a rarely used UIF  VS.  X at 3rd + Drew at SS + WMB as an often used UIF.   Not sure how Iggy's outstanding 2013 campaign figures into 2014 projections for the Sox, or how Boras' would put that into his binder for projected results for 2014.
 
Herrara, with a minor league option, adds some nice depth and helps in the negotiating process with Boras/Drew. With the addition of 2 bullpen arms, Millers' return and Britton adding LH reliever depth, it would have been tough to find a spot on the 25 for Morales. This is a win/win for both Sox/Rockies.  Could envision teams calling the Sox with similar type players (AAAA), that can play CF, with minor league options left, to try to snag either Lavarnway or Butler.
 

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Plympton91 said:
Morales was traded for a utility infielder, and so somebody said that all they needed now was a backup CF, and then someone pointed out that in order to have a backup CF you have to trade Carp, Nava, or Gomes, and I pointed out that's why Ellsbury in the majors and Bradley at Pawtucket would allieviate the need for a backup CF (or a backup rightfielder, which the Red Sox also don't obviously have either).
So I ask again " What does CF depth have to do with the Morales trade? One has nothing to do with the other.
 

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I don't really like this trade. I guess I am misjudging the marketplace. Morales walks a lot of guys but he has swing and miss stuff and he gets traded for a Punto? In his time with Boston he pitched 134 innings while giving up only 118 hits, 56 BB with 128 K. He had outings in which he was flat out filthy. He is a little homer and injury prone. I know the Sox have a ton of pitching but I feel like he was given away.
 

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ShaneTrot said:
I don't really like this trade. I guess I am misjudging the marketplace. Morales walks a lot of guys but he has swing and miss stuff and he gets traded for a Punto? In his time with Boston he pitched 134 innings while giving up only 118 hits, 56 BB with 128 K. He had outings in which he was flat out filthy. He is a little homer and injury prone. I know the Sox have a ton of pitching but I feel like he was given away.
 
The thing is there was probably no room for him on the major league roster. Breslow and Miller (given health) are locks with Britton as the AAAA lefty. Plus he is no longer cheap - being arb. eligible - so the Sox save a few million and save a potential roster  roster crunch in return for something valuable that they needed.
 

Plympton91

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I started thinking that way ShaneTrot, when you see that Thornton got 2 years and $7 million from the Yankees, but then I remembered the Willie Bloomquist deal that exceeded that one.  Seems like they did o.k.
 

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ShaneTrot said:
Morales walks a lot of guys but he has swing and miss stuff and he gets traded for a Punto?
He may have swing and miss stuff but he wasn't able to convert it into a high K rate last year. Walk rate over 5 + K rate under 8 = not much value. The Rockies are gambling that 2013 was just a down year and not a downward trend. It is a little puzzling that we had to include a throw-in, but I guess we were paying a premium for the extra couple of million in luxury tax room the exchange should buy us.
 

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There you go. He can play multiple positions, his bat isn't going to hurt you if you don't expose him, you can option him -- and you save against the tax. Morales is in reality a fungible and now redundant asset. For a team that went right up against the threshold in 2013, that actually is a potentially valuable savings. It's a nice move, a clever move, at the margins.
 

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I'm curious to see how many threads Plympy can take over with ranting about Ellsbury. He's up to 3 or 4 threads completely derailed at this point.
 
M

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I will miss the game thread images when he enters a game.  One last time:
 
   
    
     
 
not to mention:
 
   
   
 

Plympton91

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Andrew said:
I'm curious to see how many threads Plympy can take over with ranting about Ellsbury. He's up to 3 or 4 threads completely derailed at this point.
 
And what does that comment contribute to the discussion?
 
Savin Hillbilly said:
He may have swing and miss stuff but he wasn't able to convert it into a high K rate last year. Walk rate over 5 + K rate under 8 = not much value. The Rockies are gambling that 2013 was just a down year and not a downward trend. It is a little puzzling that we had to include a throw-in, but I guess we were paying a premium for the extra couple of million in luxury tax room the exchange should buy us.
 
That's a really good point.  Holding on to Morales and then being forced to waive him in spring training would cost at least half a million even if they used the somewhat slimy tactic of waiving him halfway through spring training and paying only a fifth of his salary; and if the exchange is Britton/Workman being at the minimum vs. Morales at $2.5 million or so then it's a material savings for a team that might be close to the limit.
 

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FWIW, very similar projections for Herrera and Punto next season:
 
[tablegrid= Steamer Projections ] G PA HR R RBI SB BB% K% ISO BABIP AVG OBP SLG wOBA wRC+ BsR Off Def WAR Herrera 37 155 1 16 14 2 7.50% 13.80% 0.087 0.292 0.257 0.315 0.344 0.292 78 -0.2 -4.1 0.7 0.2 Punto 49 203 1 20 15 3 10.10% 18.90% 0.077 0.285 0.232 0.311 0.309 0.281 76 0 -5.4 1.4 0.3 [/tablegrid]
 
[tablegrid= Oliver Projections ] G PA HR R RBI SB BB% K% ISO BABIP AVG OBP SLG wOBA wRC+ BsR Off Def WAR Herrera 143 600 5 62 48 12 7.30% 13.30% 0.076 0.298 0.262 0.32 0.338 0.293 69 0.5 -20.6 10.5 0.9 Punto 143 600 4 57 43 7 10.70% 19.70% 0.069 0.287 0.23 0.313 0.299 0.278 74 1.3 -16.1 6 1.1 [/tablegrid]
 
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4182&position=2B/SS
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1429&position=2B/3B/SS
 

The Mort Report

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alwyn96 said:
 
I smell a challenge!
 
Ok, these first ones are tricky because these guys might actually live to put up another decent season
 
2012 - Will Inman - 2.23 ERA (maybe Justin Germano, but he was mostly a starter)
2011 - Tommy Hottovy - 2.75
2010 - Robert Manual - 1.68 (maybe he got hurt? The following year he was in the Indy leagues)
2009 - Rocky Cherry - 2.57 (ok, he had a crazy high WHIP, but Rocky Cherry! Awesome! Marcus McBeth was also inexplicably good and then never again)
2008 - Hunter Jones - 3.02 
2007 - Travis Hughes - 1.97 (Huh, he went to Japan the following year was never really good again)
2006 - Jermaine Van Buren - 2.98
2005 - Marc Deschens - 2.94 (granted in only 33 innings)
2004 -  Brandon Puffer - 3.26 (Man, rough year for the Pawtucket bullpen. No wonder they needed to trade for Leskanic. You could say Scott Cassidy at 3.46 instead, although he pitched (not very well) in MLB a little later)
2003 - Matt White - 1.97 (The Pride of Pittsfield!)
2002 - Todd "The Number" Erdos - 3.22
 
Ok, that was a fun half hour. You said 15 years, but my eyes are starting to glaze over. 
 
Ha thank you for doing this, I was going to attempt this last night when I got home from the bar.... yeah that always works.
 
Either way, this is why we should never be concerned with trading a AAA RP who has a good season.  RP is volatile even at the major league level.  I don't think a team should ever give up value for any sort of RP(I'm looking at you Arizona).  If you look at the 4 guys holding down the pen in the postseason, only one of them (Tazawa) was considered a top 4 going into the season.  Koji was the 6th inning guy, Workman starting in the minors, and Breslow hurt.  Yes, we did trade for Breslow in 2012, but we sent Albers and Podsednick to Arizona, so yeah, no value lost.  Our high priced acquires hit the DL.  
 
The only time I would consider giving up value for a RP is at the trade deadline if a team has a glaring hole at RP and has a real shot at a world series. 
 

The Best Catch in 100 Years

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
767
Kyrgyzstan
Nick Punto is getting a bad rap in this thread. Say what you will about the noodle bat, but he's a terrific defensive player, with almost uniformly excellent stats at 2B, SS and 3B. This will be a fantastic deal if Herrera is 80% of what Punto has been over his career, and still is, to some extent--the ideal utility infielder. I don't have time to back this up with stats or anything at the moment but I'd guess that guys like Morales and Martin are a lot easier to find than guys like Punto these days.
 

Pumpsie

The Kilimanjaro of bullshit
SoSH Member
I like it.  Last year, Morales was "scary bad."  Totally undependable.  Definitely the weak link in the 2014 pen. Holt just isn't a good enough fielder to be a utility guy.  Heck, he just isn't a good enough player.  This move pretty much sets the roster.  There's zero pressure to trade for Drew now.  But if Ben does, it'll be because he's either come up with a really good trade for WMB or another really good reason, not because he felt the roster was deficient or that he HAD to do something.  I still think that Drew is going to have a couple of really good years ahead of him, too, especially since he got his eyes checked.
 

Bergs

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
12,992
Pumpsie said:
I like it.  Last year, Morales was "scary bad."  Totally undependable.  Definitely the weak link in the 2014 pen. Holt just isn't a good enough fielder to be a utility guy.  Heck, he just isn't a good enough player.  This move pretty much sets the roster.  There's zero pressure to trade for Drew now.  But if Ben does, it'll be because he's either come up with a really good trade for WMB or another really good reason, not because he felt the roster was deficient or that he HAD to do something.  I still think that Drew is going to have a couple of really good years ahead of him, too, especially since he got his eyes checked.
 
Trade for Drew?
 

maufman

Anderson Cooper x Mr. Rogers
Staff member
Dope
Gold Supporter
Then Bradley steps in. It's called deep depth. Something I heard some team somewhere decided was a good idea in 2013.


Where do you cut $22mm from the 2014 payroll to make room for that "deep depth?"

I'm with you in that I'm less bullish on JBJ than most of SoSH, but if you accept a $189mm budget as a given, I don't see a viable alternative to handing JBJ the keys and letting Ellsbury walk.