Red Sox Trade Deadline 2022

Getting a free first baseman along with prospects who don't need protecting for a guy that was set to get crunched off the 40 man this winter feels creative to me, I dunno.
At the risk of engendering Rovin Romine's probably justifiable accusation of an emotive post: can someone please explain to me what the fuck just happened? I think the Hosmer/Pham deals might make sense for a team that's cooking that could use a little more depth (a la Steve Pearce) ...but why trade Vaz when he's having a decent year (and is durable as shit) if you're not selling off assets aggressively? Once again, from my perspective, Chaim's stuck betwixt and between. I'm beginning to believe he's deeply risk adverse - like it's a psychological issue. Doesn't wanna spend prospects, doesn't wanna spend big money, doesn't wanna sell impending free agents. Just what does he want to do? Find bargains? He under stocked the 2022 team in the off season, and then doesn't have the guts to do what the Cubs did last year at the deadline when they're floundering ...Man, he is deeply conservative.

Deep breath and give him the off season to see ... but seems pretty baffling right now.
The difference between yesterday's direction towards a sell-off and today's suddenly cautionary approach may not be a coincidence. It's certainly possible that the Vazquez deal may have triggered an adverse reaction from either upstairs or the clubhouse that may have created an overnight change of tack. If they could trade Vazquez for two bags of Tier 4 balls, they could certainly have gotten at least a similar return for J.D., Eovaldi, Hill or pretty much anybody. The notion of being "both buyers and sellers," or "not getting a good enough return" doesn't ring particularly true. Nothing about this trade deadline activity gives me a warm and fuzzy.
 

MuzzyField

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The difference between yesterday's direction towards a sell-off and today's suddenly cautionary approach may not be a coincidence. It's certainly possible that the Vazquez deal may have triggered an adverse reaction from either upstairs or the clubhouse that may have created an overnight change of tack. If they could trade Vazquez for two bags of Tier 4 balls, they could certainly have gotten at least a similar return for J.D., Eovaldi, Hill or pretty much anybody. The notion of being "both buyers and sellers," or "not getting a good enough return" doesn't ring particularly true. Nothing about this trade deadline activity gives me a warm and fuzzy.
If anything like that happened overnight the team is being led and run by fucking morons.
 

Sin Duda

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If Chaim's continued plan is to build a Sustainable Championship Contender™, then gaining additional resources below the MLB level appears to be the Plan's foundation. The Yankees appear to have done an excellent job of employing a coaching staff at all levels that takes all those MiLB resources, trains 'em up (as we say in Texas), and brings them much closer to the finish line. Tampa seems to do that very well too. I've personally been surprised at how quickly several Red Sox pitching MiLBers have progressed so quickly to the finish line this year too. Maybe Chaim has begun building the sustainable contender we all clamor for.

Trading Vasquez and not JD or Evo due to their likelihood of getting QOs is more Star Trek 3D chess than my 2D chess understanding of baseball, so I give Chaim the benefit of the doubt that the Plan is progressing. But some of you guys seem to be thinking you're watching checkers. I like the Hosmer deal if it's fully subsidized. I'll reserve judgment on the Vasquez deal but hope one of those two Houston players becomes a solid major leaguer. The Diekman / McGuire rubs me the right way since we gave up an unreliable pitcher (and his salary for this and next season) and got back a defensive-oriented former 1st round pick catcher.

So the net is Chaim traded
  • 1 above average MLB C on his last 2 months in town
  • 1 unreliable MLB LHR and his salary for 2022-23
  • 1 blocked AAA former-first-round P
  • 1 PTBNL
For...
  • 1 below average MLB former-first-round C
  • 1 average MLB 1B
  • 1 below average MLB LF
  • 1 well above average AAA hitter (1.010 combined OPS at AAA & AA) with no real position
  • 1 above average corner OF with speed and hitting ability
  • 2 A+ lottery tickets
  • 1 PTBNL
Not sexy but definitely a winning trade deadline in my estimation. Frankly, I'd like to see AAA Valdez up this year if there's room for him.
 

Sprowl

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I think it is reasonable to say that Chaim didn’t think Vaz was very good to begin with as there have been rumors for 3 years that they were looking to move on from him, and we all know Chaim came from a franchise that doesn’t put a high value on the position (think Patriots and RBs).

For 2 months of Vaz, they got two solid prospects to build more depth and probably think they can replace 80%+ of his production knowing that they were letting him walk in the offseason anyways.

Not to come off as a Chaim apologist, but again, I think these are the smart moves that good Execs make over the long haul.
Yes, I think Bloom's actions confirm that he viewed Vazquez as a mediocre catcher, readily replaced, and thought he was selling high.

At the beginning of his career, Vazquez looked like a potential generational defensive talent at catcher, both in his arm strength and his framing. TJ surgery took a toll on his throwing and the rest of the league caught up with him on framing. His bat, however, was one of the highlights of a low season: this seems a very odd time to trade an acknowledged club leader who happened to be hitting as well as he ever has.

Bloom seems to value minor-league organizational depth much more than I would want for building a major roster. At some point he had better cash some of them in. Jason Groome seems to have been the only jetsam at this deadline.
 

LynnRice75

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From a friend whom scoured Twitter all day.

“Multiple teams were in talks to acquire LHP Chris Sale prior to the deadline. Names were exchanged, offers were submitted, but nothing came to fruition before 6:00 PM EST.”
 

E5 Yaz

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From a friend whom scoured Twitter all day.

“Multiple teams were in talks to acquire LHP Chris Sale prior to the deadline. Names were exchanged, offers were submitted, but nothing came to fruition before 6:00 PM EST.”
Did he provide you with any of those tweets?
 

JBJ_HOF

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From a friend whom scoured Twitter all day.

“Multiple teams were in talks to acquire LHP Chris Sale prior to the deadline. Names were exchanged, offers were submitted, but nothing came to fruition before 6:00 PM EST.”
uhhh, no
 

scottyno

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The difference between yesterday's direction towards a sell-off and today's suddenly cautionary approach may not be a coincidence. It's certainly possible that the Vazquez deal may have triggered an adverse reaction from either upstairs or the clubhouse that may have created an overnight change of tack. If they could trade Vazquez for two bags of Tier 4 balls, they could certainly have gotten at least a similar return for J.D., Eovaldi, Hill or pretty much anybody. The notion of being "both buyers and sellers," or "not getting a good enough return" doesn't ring particularly true. Nothing about this trade deadline activity gives me a warm and fuzzy.
At his current contract and current health Vaz had more value to other teams than anyone the Sox were realistically making available except Schreiber and maybe Eovaldi
 

Sin Duda

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From a friend whom scoured Twitter all day.

“Multiple teams were in talks to acquire LHP Chris Sale prior to the deadline. Names were exchanged, offers were submitted, but nothing came to fruition before 6:00 PM EST.”
That's definitely inaccurate. The deadline was 6:00 PM E-D-T.
 

joe dokes

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From a friend whom scoured Twitter all day.

“Multiple teams were in talks to acquire LHP Chris Sale prior to the deadline. Names were exchanged, offers were submitted, but nothing came to fruition before 6:00 PM EST.”
Did friend read it on Twitter, or just scour Twitter and independently conclude it?
 

LynnRice75

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Did friend read it on Twitter, or just scour Twitter and independently conclude it?
Friend is a Yankees fan. Says it was tweeted by someone he follows. Said the same guy tweeted multiple trades today before they happened. My friend is a baseball junkie, so I trust what he says is true. That, of course, doesn’t confirm the Tweet is accurate.
 

Ganthem

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The difference between yesterday's direction towards a sell-off and today's suddenly cautionary approach may not be a coincidence. It's certainly possible that the Vazquez deal may have triggered an adverse reaction from either upstairs or the clubhouse that may have created an overnight change of tack. If they could trade Vazquez for two bags of Tier 4 balls, they could certainly have gotten at least a similar return for J.D., Eovaldi, Hill or pretty much anybody. The notion of being "both buyers and sellers," or "not getting a good enough return" doesn't ring particularly true. Nothing about this trade deadline activity gives me a warm and fuzzy.
If Bloom is making decisions based on how the players feel and Henry is cool with it the Sox are screwed
 

jon abbey

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nighthob

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I guess the only question is what were teams demanding from Boston to take on half of Sale’s remaining cash?
 

HangingW/ScottCooper

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I think it is reasonable to say that Chaim didn’t think Vaz was very good to begin with as there have been rumors for 3 years that they were looking to move on from him, and we all know Chaim came from a franchise that doesn’t put a high value on the position (think Patriots and RBs).

For 2 months of Vaz, they got two solid prospects to build more depth and probably think they can replace 80%+ of his production knowing that they were letting him walk in the offseason anyways.

Not to come off as a Chaim apologist, but again, I think these are the smart moves that good Execs make over the long haul.
This reeks of Billy Beane wanting to deal Jason Varitek as his first order of business.
 

cornwalls@6

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A slightly weird, meh kind of deadline. The biggest head scratcher to me is CV. Pham and Hos are, I guess, moderate short term upgrades. I think my macro take away is that the club will attempt to remain viable and interesting the rest of the way, and a more aggressive attempt at rebuilding into a true contender will commence later this year. Todays moves do nothing to impede that, so good on Bloom for that.
 

soxin6

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I find this discussion fascinating. We have all seen Vaz fade year after year as the toll of the long season wore him down. Cora has overused him most years and catcher is a demanding position. It seems clear that Bloom did not intend to bring Vaz back and was able to get what he felt was a good return for a catcher that is likely to get worse as the season goes on.

People on here have begged for the Sox to DFA Diekman and to replace Dalbec/Cordero with anyone at 1B that might actually hit and catch the ball. Both of those happened and people are unhappy about it.

Unless Chaim followed the cries of Randolph and Mortimer Duke to “Sell, Sell, Sell” people were going to be unhappy. Either you trust Bloom or you don’t, but many of the people complaining that they needed to sell were the ones defending Bloom all season.
 

cornwalls@6

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I find this discussion fascinating. We have all seen Vaz fade year after year as the toll of the long season wore him down. Cora has overused him most years and catcher is a demanding position. It seems clear that Bloom did not intend to bring Vaz back and was able to get what he felt was a good return for a catcher that is likely to get worse as the season goes on.

People on here have begged for the Sox to DFA Diekman and to replace Dalbec/Cordero with anyone at 1B that might actually hit and catch the ball. Both of those happened and people are unhappy about it.

Unless Chaim followed the cries of Randolph and Mortimer Duke to “Sell, Sell, Sell” people were going to be unhappy. Either you trust Bloom or you don’t, but many of the people complaining that they needed to sell were the ones defending Bloom all season.
Is it really that binary? And events on the ground don’t play a role? I really think there’s a reasonable position somewhere between in Bloom we trust, and he’s a disaster with no plan.
 

Marciano490

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I like the Vazquez move the most. He seems likely to resign if we want him and Valdez appears to be the best prospect we got at the deadline. So, we picked up a maybe usable player for a little less than half a lost season of a catch we can get back for next year. Does anyone really think Vazquez is the difference between making, much less advancing in, the playoffs or not? If not, get a little value for him, keep his phone number and get incrementally better long term.
 

Apisith

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I'm assuming the reason we didn't trade Eovaldi or JD is that we'll be offering them the QO? Giving one to Eovaldi makes sense, especially if he can be effective with less velocity but JD doesn't deserve one, he's not worth it.
 

cantor44

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If Chaim's continued plan is to build a Sustainable Championship Contender™, then gaining additional resources below the MLB level appears to be the Plan's foundation. The Yankees appear to have done an excellent job of employing a coaching staff at all levels that takes all those MiLB resources, trains 'em up (as we say in Texas), and brings them much closer to the finish line. Tampa seems to do that very well too. I've personally been surprised at how quickly several Red Sox pitching MiLBers have progressed so quickly to the finish line this year too. Maybe Chaim has begun building the sustainable contender we all clamor for.

Trading Vasquez and not JD or Evo due to their likelihood of getting QOs is more Star Trek 3D chess than my 2D chess understanding of baseball, so I give Chaim the benefit of the doubt that the Plan is progressing. But some of you guys seem to be thinking you're watching checkers. I like the Hosmer deal if it's fully subsidized. I'll reserve judgment on the Vasquez deal but hope one of those two Houston players becomes a solid major leaguer. The Diekman / McGuire rubs me the right way since we gave up an unreliable pitcher (and his salary for this and next season) and got back a defensive-oriented former 1st round pick catcher.

So the net is Chaim traded
  • 1 above average MLB C on his last 2 months in town
  • 1 unreliable MLB LHR and his salary for 2022-23
  • 1 blocked AAA former-first-round P
  • 1 PTBNL
For...
  • 1 below average MLB former-first-round C
  • 1 average MLB 1B
  • 1 below average MLB LF
  • 1 well above average AAA hitter (1.010 combined OPS at AAA & AA) with no real position
  • 1 above average corner OF with speed and hitting ability
  • 2 A+ lottery tickets
  • 1 PTBNL
Not sexy but definitely a winning trade deadline in my estimation. Frankly, I'd like to see AAA Valdez up this year if there's room for him.
But ... but ... what's the objective? To come our marginally ahead in a deal? To get the most WAR/$? Or to assemble the best team? The 2022 squad almost certainly can't win the WS. Hosmer and Pham and McGuire ain't pushing them over the edge. Isn't it worth it, then, to get a few more Valdezs from your pending free agents? Bloom "won" because on the ledger sheet there's a slight net gain? Maybe there is a slight gain. But is he building a winning team this year or even in the future with these moves?
 
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Sin Duda

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But ... but ... what's the objective? To come our marginally ahead in a deal? To get the most WAR/$? Or to assemble the best team? The 2022 squad almost certainly can't win the WS. Hosmer and Pham and McQuire ain't pushing them over the edge. Isn't it worth it, then, to get a few more Valdezs from your pending free agents? Bloom "won" because on the ledger sheet there's a slight net gain? Maybe there is a slight gain. But is he building a winning team this year or even in the future with these moves?
Yes, I hear you. One approach would have been to tear it down completely and restock, restock, restock. As a fan, I'm glad they're still watchable in August and hopefully right through September into the playoffs. And even though they'd be long shots to beat the Yankees and Astros, I'd still like to see them make the playoffs. I think their financial flexibility next year allows Chaim to fill holes and continue working his plan.
 

cantor44

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Yes, I hear you. One approach would have been to tear it down completely and restock, restock, restock. As a fan, I'm glad they're still watchable in August and hopefully right through September into the playoffs. And even though they'd be long shots to beat the Yankees and Astros, I'd still like to see them make the playoffs. I think their financial flexibility next year allows Chaim to fill holes and continue working his plan.
The only logic I can wrap my head around is, as mentioned above, the QO offer I suspect Bloom will offer to both Martinez and Eovaldi, and wouldn't have offered to Vazquez. Having either of those two for a single additional year might not be so bad, and if not, you get a pick. But I would hope Bloom could negotiate a return in a trade that would be better than the potential of those picks ....Clearly I think Bloom has some big warts to go along with his strengths. Once again, I hope future moves will make the present moves make more sense and feel less marginal.

EDIT: From Speier - I agree with this general summary:

With the addition of Hosmer, the Sox concluded a deadline of partial measures. They didn’t gut their club for prospects. They didn’t shed the payroll necessary to duck below the luxury-tax threshold. They didn’t address their deficient bullpen, instead thinning their relief corps by dealing Diekman. While Hosmer will upgrade their defense, they also introduced an element of uncertainty by parting with Vázquez.

The collective moves felt indecisive ...
 
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DeadlySplitter

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One nugget in here:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/08/02/sports/red-sox-play-surprising-hand-they-are-dealt-trading-deadline-acquire-eric-hosmer/?event=event25

In past years, the teams had discussed deals in which the Sox would assume Hosmer’s contract and receive a top prospect in return. More recently, San Diego and the Sox discussed deals, including a catcher swap of Vázquez for Austin Nola along with Hosmer and other parts.

But Tuesday, San Diego — mindful of avoiding a clubhouse conflagration — came back to the Sox with a new proposition. The Padres would pay all of Hosmer’s roughly $44 million, save for the big league minimum.
Nola's been below average on offense & framing lately. Think that was a good pass, see what the winter brings as far as the next bridge at catcher.
 

Archer1979

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I was on the road from about 3:00 to 8:00 last night so I left with the latest news being Hosmer coming to Boston (the details hadn't come through yet). I was optimistic that this was leading up to something more as I was expecting JDM and Eovaldi to move as well. The explanation that the QO comes into play somewhat resonates with the realist in me.

The fanboy in me, however, ran up to my PC as soon as I got home and excitedly expecting more saw this as the equivalent of "Be Sure To Drink Your Ovaltine".

In other words, I'm still pessimistic on the odds of the Sox doing anything in the playoffs if they make it. But I'm hoping that the buyers/sellers mode they were in somehow placates X and Devers when it comes down to contract extensions. Also hoping that this provides a few more pieces to play with for trades in the off-season.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'd rather have a 1% chance of doing something in the playoffs than adding another David Hamilton clone. If that's all that was being offered for JD/EOV, take the comp picks. I think this trade deadline makes a lot more sense if one assumes Bloom doesn't like Vazquez and thinks Reese McGuire is about as good or even better. If one does that, the Sox stayed flat/improved at C, improved at 1b, improved in the OF and improved the bullpen by subtraction.
 

johnnywayback

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I think this trade deadline makes a lot more sense if one assumes Bloom doesn't like Vazquez and thinks Reese McGuire is about as good or even better.
That's right. It seems like they've been trying to replace him for a couple years now, so even if the players feel like trading Vazquez makes the team worse, it stands to reason that Bloom doesn't. And, through that lens, the deadline involved making a couple of upgrades at essentially zero cost, which is exactly what you want to do with a team that is in contention but barely so. Plus we got a handful of mildly interesting prospects.

I would also note for all you BLOOM IS TURNING THE SOX INTO THE RAYS types that they could easily have ditched JDM to get under the luxury tax threshold and opted not to. I would have liked to see them do that, but I guess Bloom cares more about winning than he does about optimizing value.
 

cantor44

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That's right. It seems like they've been trying to replace him for a couple years now.
If that's the case why did they pick up his option last year?

Meanwhile, Bloom himself has admitted Tuesday did not go as he expected - he expected a lot more moves. I think he was going into fuller sell mode, pulled the trigger on Vazquez, and then on Tuesday realized other possibilities were drying up and got caught. If Vaz was part of a series of trades he expected but had not guaranteed, he should have waited to trade him until AFTER guarantees about the other deals. Saying McGuire is just as good as Vazquez, seems like extreme wish casting.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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If that's the case why did they pick up his option last year?

Meanwhile, Bloom himself has admitted Tuesday did not go as he expected - he expected a lot more moves. I think he was going into fuller sell mode, pulled the trigger on Vazquez, and then on Tuesday realized other possibilities were drying up and got caught. If Vaz was part of a series of trades he expected but had not guaranteed, he should have waited to trade him until AFTER guarantees about the other deals. Saying McGuire is just as good as Vazquez, seems like extreme wish casting.
I'm inclined to agree, but of course, we have no idea of the conditions Houston put on the deal. Unlike some around these parts, I assume that Bloom knows enough about his job to minimize loose ends like that as much as he possibly can.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I could be wrong here but Bloom seems very opportunistic in that he likes to keep his options open and investigate lots of different potential moves if he thinks they add value. It’s a big departure from Dombrowski who appeared much more methodical and focused- if he needed a SP, he went out and got one and there wasn’t a lot of back and forth, etc. I think it makes it much more difficult to understand the “plan” because it’s fluid, ever evolving, and can take many more potential paths.
 

joe dokes

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If that's the case why did they pick up his option last year?

Meanwhile, Bloom himself has admitted Tuesday did not go as he expected - he expected a lot more moves. I think he was going into fuller sell mode, pulled the trigger on Vazquez, and then on Tuesday realized other possibilities were drying up and got caught. If Vaz was part of a series of trades he expected but had not guaranteed, he should have waited to trade him until AFTER guarantees about the other deals. Saying McGuire is just as good as Vazquez, seems like extreme wish casting.
I haven't seen Bloom's comment on that. Did he say he expected to make more, or there'd be more overall.

"Wanting to replace," and "keeping him around" are not mutually exclusive. And by keeping him, they got something for him.

As for the bolded, if I assumed the GM was subpar, I'd make the same conclusion.
 

joe dokes

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I could be wrong here but Bloom seems very opportunistic in that he likes to keep his options open and investigate lots of different potential moves if he thinks they add value. It’s a big departure from Dombrowski who appeared much more methodical and focused- if he needed a SP, he went out and got one and there wasn’t a lot of back and forth, etc. I think it makes it much more difficult to understand the “plan” because it’s fluid, ever evolving, and can take many more potential paths.
It seems this is exactly right. Well-defined/easily understood "Plans," "buyers," and "sellers," are facile media constructs. And its only natural if we (or the media) can't easily grasp or identify the "plan," then it's easy to assume there is no strategy at all.
 

cantor44

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I haven't seen Bloom's comment on that. Did he say he expected to make more, or there'd be more overall.
From Speier: “If you had asked me [Monday] night I would’ve thought we would’ve made more moves than we did [Tuesday],” said chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom.
 

Ganthem

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No real starting right fielder, no platoon mate as insurance for Dalbec, a bullpen made largely of fliers, a starting rotation of older guys coming off recent injury history ...not much depth.
Why would Bloom find Dalbec a platoon partner given what he had done the last few months of 2021? It was not an unreasonable gamble to take that he would continue to improve against right handers and if he didn't there was Casas. There is no GM who would have seen what Dalbec did those last few months and would have played it differently. As for the rotation, we had Wacha step up when Sale went down, Houck and Whitlock stepped up at various times and we have gotten decent performances from Crawford and Winchowski, though the latter has hit a bit of a bump. That is pretty damm good depth and I would be happy to have that depth for the rotation year in and year out. As for right field you are probably going to be infuriated by the Red Sox under Bloom. He is going to at times take flyers on guys who have been productive major leaguers, but have had a down year. It didn't work out, but given the presence of Duran it was not a bad gamble. The only way your complaints make any sense is if you had a crystal ball at the beginning of the season.
 

Cesar Crespo

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No real starting right fielder, no platoon mate as insurance for Dalbec, a bullpen made largely of fliers, a starting rotation of older guys coming off recent injury history ...not much depth.
I don't really get what else he could have done re: SP and bullpen. Hopefully in 2023 it's not an issue because the Sox should have plenty of farm options available and won't have to sign retreads. Or at least, won't have to rely on the retreads if they suck. Pitching is something that really has to be done in house or you are always dealing with pitchers coming off of recent injury histories. Even if you go in house with young pitchers, it's the same thing. See Crawford.

1b/OF, I mean... yeah probably. You can't go into seasons depending on anything from Duran or Casas. If Duran finishes the year well, you can pencil him in for 2023 since he has a track record. Casas? No. They have Hosmer for that. I get why you don't like Hosmer, because the Sox will probably just role with Hosmer rather than look to upgrade the spot with Casas around but I'm not sure who they could land on a 1 or 2 year deal that is guaranteed to be any better than Hosmer.
 

cantor44

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Why would Bloom find Dalbec a platoon partner given what he had done the last few months of 2021? It was not an unreasonable gamble to take that he would continue to improve against right handers and if he didn't there was Casas. There is no GM who would have seen what Dalbec did those last few months and would have played it differently. As for the rotation, we had Wacha step up when Sale went down, Houck and Whitlock stepped up at various times and we have gotten decent performances from Crawford and Winchowski, though the latter has hit a bit of a bump. That is pretty damm good depth and I would be happy to have that depth for the rotation year in and year out. As for right field you are probably going to be infuriated by the Red Sox under Bloom. He is going to at times take flyers on guys who have been productive major leaguers, but have had a down year. It didn't work out, but given the presence of Duran it was not a bad gamble. The only way your complaints make any sense is if you had a crystal ball at the beginning of the season.
Dalbec sat most of the playoffs, despite a torrid August and decent September, and that should tell you something about their understanding of him. He was best when sharing the position. Wacha, Hill, Sale, (and Paxton) were coming years they were hurt, ineffective, old, or some combination. Yes, it was easy to predict that rotation would fray. Most thought another shoe would drop after Renfroe was traded for JBJ - surely JBJ would have a good hitting platoon partner or would be the 4th outfielder - but no. The bullpen was filled with fliers, guys who were okay - no blue chips. I certainly was unhappy with the offseason, as were many others. Yes, Story came in - I was modestly happy about that, knowing he would improve the team immediately, but a bit wary about his fast declining offensive numbers. But obvious holes were left in the rotation, bullpen, outfield, and I would contend first base. It wasn't crystal ball stuff, it was looking at who Bloom got, and virtually each was a contingency kind of acquisition "if" "if" "if" ... with no sure things, blue chip or all star players brought in (no, I don't want the whole team to be comprised of high priced FA, so I kindly ask you not to respond to my post that way).

Sighting Crawford and Winchowski as dependable contributors in the preseason feels like crystal ball stuff, not the rest.

EDIT: And I'm not making "complaints", I'm critiquing. You can certainly disagree with my critique, but let's not diminish any critical look at Bloom as "complaining", "childish" "EEI screaming. The reflex to defend the mighty leader at all costs begins to feel a bit dogmatic ...
 
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Cesar Crespo

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If Crawford finishes the year with an era of 2.92, 131.2 ip, 1.100 whip, 42bb/140k... can we not go into next year with him penciled in the rotation because he's coming off a recent injury ? He's not going to do that, but at what point can the Sox write Crawford into the 2023 rotation?

How many SP should they go into 2023 with? Can the Red Sox depend on Garrett Whitlock for anything? How recent is a recent injury and what counts as an injury history? If you want nothing but healthy pitchers, good luck.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
24,829
Sighting Crawford and Winchowski as dependable contributors in the preseason feels like crystal ball stuff, not the rest.
Let's at least get Winckowski's name right before we drop him from the playoff roster. Regardless, I'm inclined to agree about him w/r/t post-season play. Crawford, not yet. He seems to regularly hold his own against good competition.

EDIT: Bad reading comprehension by me. ("preseason" not "postseason")
 
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YTF

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SoSH Member
If that's the case why did they pick up his option last year?

Meanwhile, Bloom himself has admitted Tuesday did not go as he expected - he expected a lot more moves. I think he was going into fuller sell mode, pulled the trigger on Vazquez, and then on Tuesday realized other possibilities were drying up and got caught. If Vaz was part of a series of trades he expected but had not guaranteed, he should have waited to trade him until AFTER guarantees about the other deals. Saying McGuire is just as good as Vazquez, seems like extreme wish casting.
I'm not quite sure that this is how it works at the trade deadline. Perhaps earlier in the season when there isn't the frenzy that the deadline creates, but there seems to be just too many moving parts when you consider that potential trade partners may be dealing multiple teams for multiple players/packages.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,482
He seems to regularly hold his own against good competition.
Yeah, but expecting that going into 2022 would have been foolish and I'm probably the biggest Kutter Crawford fanboy there is. Going into the year, Kutter Crawford was lucky to have a major league career.

I'm just not sure that the Red Sox could have done different pitching wise though. The farm had pitching depth a year away, so they had to rely on retreads. Hopefully in 2023, it's retreads and farm hands who are now ready.
 

Jimbodandy

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SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
8,042
around the way
From Speier: “If you had asked me [Monday] night I would’ve thought we would’ve made more moves than we did [Tuesday],” said chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom.
You're pushing a narrative here, and that quote is not evidence of it.

"I expected trading partners to be more aggressive in making deals with us" does not equal "I was caught with my pants down here". You're pretending it does, but it doesn't.

ftr: this is not another masturbation joke
 

AB in DC

OG Football Writing
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Jul 10, 2002
10,172
Springfield, VA
Saying McGuire is just as good as Vazquez, seems like extreme wish casting.
In terms of 2022, I tend to agree, and I'm surprised there are folks here who think Vazquez->McGuire is not a downgrade.

That said, 3+ years of McGuire may be a lot more valuable than two months of Vazquez. And getting rid of Diekman's salary in the process? I'll call that a win overall.