Red Sox Trade Deadline 2022

JM3

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I think this improves the chance we're re-signing Eovaldi, right? If we're over the cap and he'd be worth a 4th round pick, might as well spend some of our boatload of cash to keep him around.
I assume 2 months of JD/Eovaldi + a 4th round pick or the flexibility of retaining them on not crazy 1-year deals (or longer lower AAV deals) is better than whatever they were getting offered. Unfortunately.
 

TheYellowDart5

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Who would Pham and Hosmer block, and how?
That's why I said "potential" (albeit misplaced as a modifier); there's no one they're immediately blocking, save possibly Casas, but I would rather the Sox go into the offseason with roster spots open looking for above-average players or young guys with upside than two dudes in their 30s who are past their primes.
 

Rovin Romine

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Valdez is sadly probably their best option at 2B right now. & even in a good year Vaz has been worth only 1.8 WAR, so what are you giving up be trading him? Pessimistically one game over the rest of the season? (McGuire has been worth 0.6 in more limited playing time)
We'll see what they do, but I don't think you go "quasi-in" if Story's not going to come back at some point. But perhaps they'll promote Valdez over other IF options (Downs/Fitzgerald, etc.) in the interim. And maybe he'll stick. But that's essentially trading a good two months from Vaz (who knows the pitching staff well) for McGuire.

If McGuire really is an upgrade and can learn the pitching staff on the fly (as it were), this also makes sense.

But my impression that Vaz was having something of a resurgent free-agent year on both sides of the plate. To the extent there are intangibles there, this is one area I wouldn't mess with.

Shrug. We'll see.
 

chawson

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No real rhyme or reason to this deadline, or at least it feels like there was no overarching plan. Moving Vazquez but not Martinez or Eovaldi is hard to understand. Adding Hosmer and Pham ups the floor by a little but at the potential cost of blocking roster spots next year with declining veterans. The prospects added are more depth options than likely impact players. No real salary or tax relief either. The clubhouse lost a vocal leader, which clearly upset those players still remaining. All told: minor upgrades for the rest of the season (which may be canceled out by the drop from Vazquez to McGuire/Plawecki/Wong) and no real change to the 2023 and beyond calculus. Frustrating, to say the least.
100 percent. I support the idea of staying in the race, but it would be more galvanizing if there was some stronger move to buy. The marginal adds from Pham and Hosmer aside, I have to think that the players view Vaz's departure as a punt.
 

scottyno

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That's why I said "potential" (albeit misplaced as a modifier); there's no one they're immediately blocking, save possibly Casas, but I would rather the Sox go into the offseason with roster spots open looking for above-average players or young guys with upside than two dudes in their 30s who are past their primes.
The Sox can free up those 2 roster spots for like $3m total, they effectively are going into the offseason with those spots open if they want them to be.
 

burstnbloom

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MLB also has the Sox as the #19 system in the majors which doesn’t fit in with a lot of peoples narrative, hence why we go with the #5 from
Fangraphs.
or the people not using mlb know that BA and fangraphs have updated their rankings and mlb’s are from the preseason.
 

Ale Xander

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I think this improves the chance we're re-signing Eovaldi, right? If we're over the cap and he'd be worth a 4th round pick, might as well spend some of our boatload of cash to keep him around.
With Sale getting injured once again, and the clock turning midnight on Big Nick, they really need a top of the rotation starter that has proven he can pitch at Fenway.
He's the only one they have.
 

JM3

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That's why I said "potential" (albeit misplaced as a modifier); there's no one they're immediately blocking, save possibly Casas, but I would rather the Sox go into the offseason with roster spots open looking for above-average players or young guys with upside than two dudes in their 30s who are past their primes.
Having a free Eric Hosmer isn't going to stop the Red Sox from doing anything. Having a free semi-competent player allows them to do more things everywhere else.

They will also bring up Casas exactly when they think Casas is ready. This may lower the pressure to bring him up earlier than they thinks he's ready, but it will never make them not bring him up when they think he's ready.

& Pham only cost $ & is probably gone after this year, or at most will cost $6m next year to be competent against lefties (better than paying JBJ $12m).
 

AB in DC

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Both will be given a QO. Vaz wouldn’t get one and he was traded for what they could get. I think it’s that simple.
I think you've got it. I wonder whether Eo's performance last night changed the calculation -- based on his velocity drop, I wouldn't have expected Eo to earn the QO, but maybe they reconsidered.
 
Dec 1, 2007
22
RE JD and and EVO.

Same story as Story last year at the deadline.

Comp pick has more future value than the prospects they were being offered.

Big headline is they think they can compete and fixed the worst part of the roster IMO w/ 1b.
 

Ale Xander

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No real rhyme or reason to this deadline, or at least it feels like there was no overarching plan. Moving Vazquez but not Martinez or Eovaldi is hard to understand. Adding Hosmer and Pham ups the floor by a little but at the potential cost of blocking roster spots next year with declining veterans. The prospects added are more depth options than likely impact players. No real salary or tax relief either. The clubhouse lost a vocal leader, which clearly upset those players still remaining. All told: minor upgrades for the rest of the season (which may be canceled out by the drop from Vazquez to McGuire/Plawecki/Wong) and no real change to the 2023 and beyond calculus. Frustrating, to say the least.
We have no good RF's so Pham isn;t blocking anyone.

If JD isn't here, Casas/Devers/Hosmer can share 1B/3B/DH
Dalbec can back up at all 3.
If JD is here, Dalbec is in Worcester, and it's 4 players for 3 positions, good depth.
 
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TheYellowDart5

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The Sox can free up those 2 roster spots for like $3m total, they effectively are going into the offseason with those spots open if they want them to be.
A fair point, and ultimately Hosmer and Pham are the least consequential parts of this deadline going forward. I just would've preferred younger/more flexible options in their place.
 

Brianish

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Its not that tough at all. Putting aside what "connected to" means. dumping them for whatever they could get/less than they think theyre worth while gutting the team would be a bad move.
If we're going to parse the vagaries of trade deadline reporting, we'll be here all week. "Connected to" means that teams were reported to have had interest in acquiring Eovaldi and JD in particular, and the Sox were reported to be willing to deal them. If that's not the case, fine, but all we know is what we hear from the press.

So, if we assume that to be at least minimally true, one of three things happened.

1. They asked for more than was reasonable, and their potential trading partners all went elsewhere.
2. They changed their mind as the deadline drew closer, for reasons unknown.
3. They are committed to a middle ground strategy, which is more or less what you're suggesting: looking for offers that match their valuation, if not exactly as an abstraction, then at least as a guiding principle. Value-hunting is good, and it does work out sometimes (hello, 2013). But it's also possible they end up with nothing but a couple of compensatory picks which, while not valueless, are likely not as good as the slightly less-than-ideal offers that they fielded this week. (Again, assuming that we can trust the reporting). In this case, the middle ground looks more like half-measures, and the abstracted pursuit of value doesn't actually manifest on the field.

I'm not sure I love any of the options, tbh. I like your perspective the most, but I'm not sure I trust it right now, and it seems to be as much of a gamble as any.
 

BigSoxFan

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100 percent. I support the idea of staying in the race, but it would be more galvanizing if there was some stronger move to buy. The marginal adds from Pham and Hosmer aside, I have to think that the players view Vaz's departure as a punt.
This deadline would make more sense if Sale and Story were healthy. But they’re not. I mean, I’ll take Hosmer for free. Pham is sadly an improvement. 2023 didn’t improve in any material way through these deals. Just a blah deadline. Offseason will obviously need to be far more impactful.
 

joe dokes

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No real rhyme or reason to this deadline, or at least it feels like there was no overarching plan. Moving Vazquez but not Martinez or Eovaldi is hard to understand. Adding Hosmer and Pham ups the floor by a little but at the potential cost of blocking roster spots next year with declining veterans. The prospects added are more depth options than likely impact players. No real salary or tax relief either. The clubhouse lost a vocal leader, which clearly upset those players still remaining. All told: minor upgrades for the rest of the season (which may be canceled out by the drop from Vazquez to McGuire/Plawecki/Wong) and no real change to the 2023 and beyond calculus. Frustrating, to say the least.
The depth vs impact issue could be that "impact" minor leaguers weren't there for those guys, so they traded one for "depth" and kept the other 2 to contend or get the QO pick. Maybe, in the absence of an "i,pact" prospect, Bloom was only going to trade one of the 3.
Hosmers not blocking anyone. He can be released.
Even Cora misses Vazquez. If Bogaerts wants to go on strike, he'll cost himself millions.
 

scottyno

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A fair point, and ultimately Hosmer and Pham are the least consequential parts of this deadline going forward. I just would've preferred younger/more flexible options in their place.
I'm sure the Sox would have too, but those options weren't available for nothing.
 

JM3

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We'll see what they do, but I don't think you go "quasi-in" if Story's not going to come back at some point. But perhaps they'll promote Valdez over other IF options (Downs/Fitzgerald, etc.) in the interim. And maybe he'll stick. But that's essentially trading a good two months from Vaz (who knows the pitching staff well) for McGuire.

If McGuire really is an upgrade and can learn the pitching staff on the fly (as it were), this also makes sense.

But my impression that Vaz was having something of a resurgent free-agent year on both sides of the plate. To the extent there are intangibles there, this is one area I wouldn't mess with.

Shrug. We'll see.
Yeah. I would have traded more things if the deals were out there. But this is basically what all these Rays adjacent teams do at the deadline, including the Dodgers - both buy & sell.

We shall see. I still trust the process.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Having a free Eric Hosmer isn't going to stop the Red Sox from doing anything. Having a free semi-competent player allows them to do more things everywhere else.

They will also bring up Casas exactly when they think Casas is ready. This may lower the pressure to bring him up earlier than they thinks he's ready, but it will never make them not bring him up when they think he's ready.

& Pham only cost $ & is probably gone after this year, or at most will cost $6m next year to be competent against lefties (better than paying JBJ $12m).
For next year, JBJ as an $8M buyout and $12M option. Pham has $6M option or $1.5M buyout. So keeping both guys would equal $16M; cutting both would still cost $9.5m.
 

Ale Xander

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Devers is back tonight. Story will be back soon. Wacha and Hill are coming back. We filled holes at 1B and OF. No reason they can’t contend.
I hadn;t heard this. Thank you. This is a good day.

Fleece a 1B
Munson anniversary
Devers back
and now I'm off to see Norah.
 

amfox1

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A fair point, and ultimately Hosmer and Pham are the least consequential parts of this deadline going forward. I just would've preferred younger/more flexible options in their place.
Like whom? And what would you have been willing to trade for said younger/more flexible options? Because Hosmer and Pham basically came for nothing.
 

joe dokes

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If we're going to parse the vagaries of trade deadline reporting, we'll be here all week. "Connected to" means that teams were reported to have had interest in acquiring Eovaldi and JD in particular, and the Sox were reported to be willing to deal them. If that's not the case, fine, but all we know is what we hear from the press.

So, if we assume that to be at least minimally true, one of three things happened.

1. They asked for more than was reasonable, and their potential trading partners all went elsewhere.
2. They changed their mind as the deadline drew closer, for reasons unknown.
3. They are committed to a middle ground strategy, which is more or less what you're suggesting: looking for offers that match their valuation, if not exactly as an abstraction, then at least as a guiding principle. Value-hunting is good, and it does work out sometimes (hello, 2013). But it's also possible they end up with nothing but a couple of compensatory picks which, while not valueless, are likely not as good as the slightly less-than-ideal offers that they fielded this week. (Again, assuming that we can trust the reporting). In this case, the middle ground looks more like half-measures, and the abstracted pursuit of value doesn't actually manifest on the field.

I'm not sure I love any of the options, tbh. I like your perspective the most, but I'm not sure I trust it right now, and it seems to be as much of a gamble as any.
As to 1.....you cannot say "they asked for more than is reasonable" without "or potential trading partners were being ridiculous."
 

moondog80

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Devers is back tonight. Story will be back soon. Wacha and Hill are coming back. We filled holes at 1B and OF. No reason they can’t contend.
Too bad they couldn't trade a couple of lottery tickets for a decent catcher, a rental even.
 

JM3

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For next year, JBJ as an $8M buyout and $12M option. Pham has $6M option or $1.5M buyout. So keeping both guys would equal $16M; cutting both would still cost $9.5m.
Sorry I just meant it as compared to this year's wasted outfield money. Wasn't referring to that option.

Will be interesting if they see JBJ as a $4m player. Could you trade him & like $8m & get a prospect from a team that thinks he is a $4m player?
 

Cesar Crespo

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If we're going to parse the vagaries of trade deadline reporting, we'll be here all week. "Connected to" means that teams were reported to have had interest in acquiring Eovaldi and JD in particular, and the Sox were reported to be willing to deal them. If that's not the case, fine, but all we know is what we hear from the press.

So, if we assume that to be at least minimally true, one of three things happened.

1. They asked for more than was reasonable, and their potential trading partners all went elsewhere.
2. They changed their mind as the deadline drew closer, for reasons unknown.
3. They are committed to a middle ground strategy, which is more or less what you're suggesting: looking for offers that match their valuation, if not exactly as an abstraction, then at least as a guiding principle. Value-hunting is good, and it does work out sometimes (hello, 2013). But it's also possible they end up with nothing but a couple of compensatory picks which, while not valueless, are likely not as good as the slightly less-than-ideal offers that they fielded this week. (Again, assuming that we can trust the reporting). In this case, the middle ground looks more like half-measures, and the abstracted pursuit of value doesn't actually manifest on the field.

I'm not sure I love any of the options, tbh. I like your perspective the most, but I'm not sure I trust it right now, and it seems to be as much of a gamble as any.
4. The other teams found superior options.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Well, then neither understand the complex nature of the business of baseball. This constant bashing is exhausting. X is an adult and he will be ok. Of course he's down. The team is worse than it was supposed to be and his friend just got traded.
So the idea of Vazquez being replaced by McGuire is rubbing X the wrong way?

By way of comparison, in 2016 at the deadline, the Yankees were 52-53, and they were sellers, trading Chapman, Beltran, Nova, and Andrew Miller for some top prospects like Sheffield and Frazier. In 2022 at the deadline, the Red Sox are 52-52 and did, well, not much either way as sellers or buyers. The Vazquez move makes little sense given the lack of other seller-type moves.
 
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There is no plausible upside to the Vasquez deal. None whatsoever. Their clubhouse and pitching staff (which Baseball Operations apparently doesn't bother to try to quantify or monetize) will surely be worse. There is no other catcher in the organization ready to step and and be an everyday major league catcher. They didn't get below the luxury tax threshold. They took on more salary than they saved. The return was a couple of 23-year old AA DH's ranked around 30ish as organizational prospects with "raw power potential," whatever that means. This deal alone rates an absolute "F." The other deals are, honestly, superfluous. They gained no higher prospects in any of the deals, improved 1B slightly whilst cratering catching, game management and clubhouse morale. It's only his third season, but there are currently no signs of fast track prospects with elite potential moving upward from the lower reaches of the organization. I'm not sure that, "mixed" is the right word?
 

Brianish

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As to 1.....you cannot say "they asked for more than is reasonable" without "or potential trading partners were being ridiculous."
No, but if 1 is the case, then we can define "reasonable" as somehow out of step with wider valuations, given that multiple teams apparently found better deals elsewhere. (Again, assuming we can trust the reporting). We can also look at what those other teams traded to get comparable players. And it's probably worth noting that 'ridiculous' is at least as hard to define as 'reasonable.'

Again, I like your version of events more, I'm just not sure I'm there.

Edit - That said, I'm just now seeing that the Padres are paying Hosmer down to league minimum, which is just hilariously good. Talk about finding value.
 

AlNipper49

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Nobody was willing to give them enough to throw away a 10-20% chance at the playoffs with Eovoldi and JD. I am actually a little surprised, Eovoldi is a playoff warrior type that a team like
4. The other teams found superior options.
i mean the Cards got Montgomery from the Yanks for basically a 4th outfielder. Montgomery may be more valuable than Eovoldi right now. It’s been a very atypical year for contending teams and the SP market. (And yah the Yankees did have a sort of glut there but with short starts in the playoffs now a thing can you really think that going into the playoffs with a glut is a bad thing?)
 

nvalvo

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I've gotta say, while I'm not exactly impressed by this deadline, it's way better than some of the scenarios people were reporting. Dom Smith isn't here, for example.
 

DJnVa

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Shhh! Don’t contradict the preactionary posters!

You know, these threads should no longer surprise me but every year it happen. Sox lose every trade. Sox can’t draft. Sox can’t develop players. Sox won’t spend money.

You’d think we suffered through 20 years of being O’s or Pirates fans.

There’s a ton of smart people here, but sometimes it seems they don’t wanna show it.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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On the bright side- it’s over. This is our team the rest of the way, and speculating about what could have been is completely pointless. Some guys should be coming back, the deficit is not insurmountable, etc. Hopefully some guys relax and get more comfortable knowing where they are going to be the rest of the way? 52-52 with 58 left. Something like 35-23, can we do it? Might as well try.
 

Jimbodandy

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You know, these threads should no longer surprise me but every year it happen. Sox lose every trade. Sox can’t draft. Sox can’t develop players. Sox won’t spend money.

You’d think we suffered through 20 years of being O’s or Pirates fans.

There’s a ton of smart people here, but sometimes it seems they don’t wanna show it.
Don't forget "Sox wasted payroll dollars on that guy". When you remind the poster that the Sox actually do spend money, the counter is how poorly it was spent.

My conspiracy theory is that Bloom intentionally didn't duck under the tax, despite the benefits, just so he wouldn't have to listen to that shit for another year.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Reading SOSH, it sounds like Bloom lost the trade deadline again this year.
He definitely lost it last year, when all he did was bring in an injured DH who'd never played first base, and a couple of mop-up relievers.
The only thing he's won in the last year is a couple of playoff series against the Yankees and Rays.
That makes him 2-4 in the last year, since he lost the ALCS, both trade deadlines, and last offseason too. No wonder so many people here think he stinks.
 

joe dokes

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So the idea of Vazquez being replaced by McGuire is rubbing X the wrong way?

By way of comparison, in 2016 at the deadline, the Yankees were 52-53, and they were sellers, trading Chapman, Beltran, Nova, and Andrew Miller for some top prospects like Sheffield and Frazier. In 2022 at the deadline, the Red Sox are 52-52 and did, well, not much either way as sellers or buyers. The Vazquez move makes little sense given the lack of other seller-type moves.
What was the playoff picture like? The answer could be "same as as the Sox." I just dont know.
 

Madmartigan

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Maybe they really don’t like Vaz’s game calling and receiving skills and think they can improve the pitching staff with someone else behind the plate, and Vaz’s good year with the bat made this a prime opportunity to sell high. I dunno.
 

Ganthem

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I think these moves were largely about defense. The Sox actually got some decent pitching in July. What really killed them was the lack of runs and the defense. Hosmer's 107 wrcplus is much better then anything Franchy or Dalbec (against righties) is giving. More importantly our infield defense looks really solid now. Devers seems to have discovered how to be a good defensive player this season, Hosmer is decent at first and either Sanchez or Story is going to be covering second, both of whom are excellent there. The only black hole defensively is shortstop. Pham is going to be in left, Duran in Center and Verdugo in right. Right field just got an upgrade over what was being tossed out there. More importantly if Kike is indeed coming back this month, then we are looking at Verdugo in left, Kike in Center and Duran in Right. Defensively that seems pretty solid. Lastly the defensive upgrade from Vaz to Mcguire should help the pitching staff. There is a very real chance this team can go on a run and sneak into the playoffs.
 

BornToRun

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I've gotta say, while I'm not exactly impressed by this deadline, it's way better than some of the scenarios people were reporting. Dom Smith isn't here, for example.
We made moves to stay competitive while adding some intriguing prospects and losing nothing of real consequence beyond Vaz. Can’t complain.
 

teddykgb

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I think I’d have tried to tear it down more but have no problem with them trying h to stay competitive.

But I don’t really know how they mean to stay competitive without improving that awful bullpen. They should have fewer automatic outs in the lineup now but they still will struggle to get 27 outs
 

pjheff

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More importantly if Kike is indeed coming back this month, then we are looking at Verdugo in left, Kike in Center and Duran in Right.
I can’t see any way in which Duran becomes the primary RFer, as he lacks the requisite defensive instincts and arm.
 

jon abbey

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Nobody was willing to give them enough to throw away a 10-20% chance at the playoffs with Eovoldi and JD. I am actually a little surprised, Eovoldi is a playoff warrior type that a team like

i mean the Cards got Montgomery from the Yanks for basically a 4th outfielder. Montgomery may be more valuable than Eovoldi right now. It’s been a very atypical year for contending teams and the SP market. (And yah the Yankees did have a sort of glut there but with short starts in the playoffs now a thing can you really think that going into the playoffs with a glut is a bad thing?)
It was a roster glut, I think, they already put Severino on the 60 day IL when he thinks he could be ready much sooner, and I think Bader will go there too.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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What was the playoff picture like? The answer could be "same as as the Sox." I just dont know.
At the deadline, MFYs were 7 games behind division leading Baltimore, and probably about 4 games behind in the WC.

I think the point is that a decision was made that even if that Yankees team could have contended for a postseason spot, the organization determined that the team as constructed was highly flawed and not competitive, and it was more beneficial to sell off several parts. I'd like to drink whatever Bloom is having, because I just don't see how this Red Sox team can win anything even if they somehow back into an expanded wild card spot.
 

mr_smith02

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You know, these threads should no longer surprise me but every year it happen. Sox lose every trade. Sox can’t draft. Sox can’t develop players. Sox won’t spend money.

You’d think we suffered through 20 years of being O’s or Pirates fans.

There’s a ton of smart people here, but sometimes it seems they don’t wanna show it.
As I watched one of the video montages honoring Big Papi prior to Hall of Fame induction I really came to realize how incredibly blessed I have been as a baseball fan since 2004. No, that doesn't mean frustrations don't/won't set in here and there while rooting for the Red Sox, but a healthy dose of perspective is needed by some around these parts. And, I am not living off a 2004 miracle, I was at Fenway Park just last October to see the Red Sox knock Tampa Bay out of the playoffs.

Not many last-place teams, in one of the best divisions in baseball, are out there making any types of moves at the trade deadline, especially if their best players at several positions are injured.

Spin it any way you'd like, but after watching some very ugly defensive plays with Cordero and Dalbec the Red Sox got better today, especially for a team sitting behind three teams for a Wild Card spot. Again, get Devers, Story, Hernandez, Hill, and Wacha back and I think we see some compelling baseball, as we did in June, down the stretch.

Hold the bar high Nation, but do so with a realistic perspective. If you have some time Google how many teams haven't even played one playoff game since 2004.