Red Sox sign Walker Buehler
- Thread starter SouthernBoSox
- Start date
This is what free agency looks like for a young decorated SP with 2 TJs who needs to prove himself.
1-year/$21M is a perfectly acceptable gamble for that player.
1-year/$21M is a perfectly acceptable gamble for that player.
I don't know why you're so obsessed with the hypothetical Crochet valuations, but Buehler is 30, had questions about his stuff even pre-TJ because he was so affected by the sticky stuff ban, and came back to make 16 starts that were mostly terrible.
I saw a lot of Kutter (and others) having to earn 4+ outs an inning due to the bad fielding behind him. For example, an easy double play ball where the second baseman fails to touch second does not show on the box score as an error.
Last year Giolito wasn't an injury risk because he's had consistent workloads.
I like the signing, and I like him betting on himself on a 1 year deal — makes me think he feels healthy.
Dude’s mound presence reminds me of Cliff Lee — cool cat.
Dude’s mound presence reminds me of Cliff Lee — cool cat.
This post as written is basically a useless game thread post. Tell us who you wanted instead and why, and we could at least have a discussion.
Burnes. I like his track record and he's the best pitcher in the market. I thought that was obvious.
Ok. I like Burnes as well and would have loved for the Sox to sign him. You could have said that instead of being cryptic.
I'm pretty bearish on Buehler - but that may be because I got stuck with him 4 years ago in fantasyland and can't get rid of him. Getting Crochet made signing someone else less desperate and maybe the market got too out of hand. I just hope he's not Matt Harvey. Still - if Burnes and Flaherty priced themselves out, they have plenty of internal options to absorb him sucking.
I love this. Lots of reasons.
He doesn't cost a draft pick, which, for a team that finally appears to be showing that it has a solid development system, is a pretty big deal.
If he is great, then they will likely offer a QO the end of the season and pick up an extra draft pick next year. See above for why this is important.
If he stinks, they cut bait with him after one year (of which they appear to be staying below the LT threshold, so it's just money and doesn't incur any penalties), and move on.
If he is anywhere in between and healthy, then they get first crack at offering a guy whose floor is probably easily the back end of a rotation, and who has pedigree, to a mutually beneficial contract.
Obviously, I'd rather have Burnes for 2025, but I'm also not sure I'd rather have Burnes in 2032 than Buehler in 2025. Burnes is great, but he also has A LOT of mileage on his arm over the last four years, his K rate is cratering, and it feels to me like he's probably something of a ticking time bomb. Long term pitching contracts are really scary, as they are always one pitch away from being lost for essentially multiple seasons, and potentially being completely ineffective by the end of the deal.
The Sox rotation, on paper, looks really good to me right now. Crochet, Houck and Bello can give you a chance to win most of the time they are on the mound. Buehler and Giolito are solid depth, with veteran experience, which is something I think most teams need in a pitching staff (but again, am not sure I would want to have them locked in for 7+ years). Crawford can give you innings if you need it, and if he figures out a way to normalize his HR rate, he is a good, cheap back of the rotation fit. Fitts and Priester both appeared at the end of the season to be ready to be solid options in case of injury. Penrod and Sandlin are waiting in the wings, and if either or both of them take a step forward this year then you have ten solid options for the rotation.
I hope the focus the rest of this offseason is on catcher and the pen.
He doesn't cost a draft pick, which, for a team that finally appears to be showing that it has a solid development system, is a pretty big deal.
If he is great, then they will likely offer a QO the end of the season and pick up an extra draft pick next year. See above for why this is important.
If he stinks, they cut bait with him after one year (of which they appear to be staying below the LT threshold, so it's just money and doesn't incur any penalties), and move on.
If he is anywhere in between and healthy, then they get first crack at offering a guy whose floor is probably easily the back end of a rotation, and who has pedigree, to a mutually beneficial contract.
Obviously, I'd rather have Burnes for 2025, but I'm also not sure I'd rather have Burnes in 2032 than Buehler in 2025. Burnes is great, but he also has A LOT of mileage on his arm over the last four years, his K rate is cratering, and it feels to me like he's probably something of a ticking time bomb. Long term pitching contracts are really scary, as they are always one pitch away from being lost for essentially multiple seasons, and potentially being completely ineffective by the end of the deal.
The Sox rotation, on paper, looks really good to me right now. Crochet, Houck and Bello can give you a chance to win most of the time they are on the mound. Buehler and Giolito are solid depth, with veteran experience, which is something I think most teams need in a pitching staff (but again, am not sure I would want to have them locked in for 7+ years). Crawford can give you innings if you need it, and if he figures out a way to normalize his HR rate, he is a good, cheap back of the rotation fit. Fitts and Priester both appeared at the end of the season to be ready to be solid options in case of injury. Penrod and Sandlin are waiting in the wings, and if either or both of them take a step forward this year then you have ten solid options for the rotation.
I hope the focus the rest of this offseason is on catcher and the pen.
No
and No
You want to give out a historic number in franchise history to a reclamation project who might only be here one season?
I seem to recall #21 being offered to someone once upon a time (Beckett, maybe?) and the player turning down the opportunity to wear it out of respect for Clemens. Pretty sure that was before Clemens retired and established a relationship with ownership though. Because of that, I have my doubts the organization would risk ticking Clemens off by giving out his number after nearly 30 years of not issuing it. Especially to a guy on a one-year deal.
This (paywalled) story verifies that, and the Beckett connection.
Ironically/Coincidentally, the University of Texas has retired No. 21 for both Swindell and Clemens
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1151818/2019/08/21/buckley-roger-clemens-should-have-his-number-retired-thats-the-easy-part-now-for-the-rest-of-it/
Wonder what they are waiting for with Clemens; the hope that he somehow makes it to Cooperstown eventually? Seems unlikely. Can’t imagine retiring his number would go over that well anyways, while the animosity towards him has certainly dissipated greatly in recent years, it still feels like a 50/50 proposition at best. Think the plan is to just continue having it unofficially retired indefinitely?
If that's the plan, then in IMO it's a dopey plan. If you're going to honor the guy, then honor the guy. Clemens comes back to Boston a couple of times a year, most famously for the WEEI Jimmy Fund Telethon where he auctions off the experience of him pitching BP to the winner and a group of friends. He's also usually in town for one or two other occasions during the season and is always welcomed into the broadcast both for a couple of innings and IIRC usually makes an appearance in the legends box. There seems to be a pretty good relationship between him and the organization.
Given it belonged to a scumbag, Yankee traitor who juiced to the gills to avoid the “twilight” coming true, yes.
Probably yes. After 26 years, if they decided to give it to anyone except maybe Kody Clemens, it would be a story they would probably not relish having to deal with. So why bother?
I expect they are waiting for Clemens to get into the Hall. Or interest and attendance dwindle enough that they need a gimmick night to sell tickets. It's not like they're running out of numbers to put on uniforms.
I dunno about scumbag but the Yankee traitor part is the problem. Nobody else up there in RF just walked out on the Sox like Clemens. Fisk and Boggs were the only other departing free agents, and Boggs was winding down, while Fisk... fucking Haywood Sullivan. The doping thing is complicated but I'm fine with baseball honoring him, without the Sox having to do the same.
When you throw a spear like bat shard at another player and blame your trainer and wife for your steroid use (I’m largely steroid agnostic, and think he should be in the Hall.) you’re kind of a scumbag.
Oh, huh, not recalling that part but OK, scumbag it is.
OK, I just read his wikipedia page. So much rot. My fave is the boys' names all starting with K -- yeah, their lives are all about you. No retirement, and give his number to a backup catcher.
This is a time heals all wounds situation. I imagine any retirement ceremony for #21 would be somewhat awkward like Boggs'.
Screw Clemens. So many important moments in Red Sox history have him playing for the evil opposition, trying to deny us. All his Red Sox great moments are all about Roger, not the team.
Clemens strikes out 20! Wow, Roger is great! The Red Sox desperately need a postseason win? Clemens comes up small, even gets himself kicked out of the game.
Then after years of saying he would only ever leave Boston to play near his Texas home (despite growing up in Ohio) the fraud signs with a division rival (who plays in another country) and dedicates the rest of his career to trying to stick it to Boston.
To hell with that guy, his number should NEVER be retired by Boston.
Where is Roger? In the showers!
Clemens strikes out 20! Wow, Roger is great! The Red Sox desperately need a postseason win? Clemens comes up small, even gets himself kicked out of the game.
Then after years of saying he would only ever leave Boston to play near his Texas home (despite growing up in Ohio) the fraud signs with a division rival (who plays in another country) and dedicates the rest of his career to trying to stick it to Boston.
To hell with that guy, his number should NEVER be retired by Boston.
Where is Roger? In the showers!
Not exactly. I mean, that's apples to oranges given the commitment period for Burnes. I want a guy whom I know can be the staff ace. Buehler? I mean, maybe. I also want a guy whom I feel confident will be the staff ace during the Red Sox championship window (which I feel starts next year, provided we have a staff ace on the roster).
I can’t love this post enough.
I would also add that it seems unfair to retire Clemens #21 with Will in the ground and unable to write a “Texas Con Man” column about it.
Screw Clemens.
Thee most obvious, “this next pitch is definitely going over the fence” since Manny took KRod deep in ‘07.
There is actual a mutual option for 2026. Is Cotillo right that the CBT hit is unchanged?
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1873507455872983153
View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1873507993737888202?s=12
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1873507455872983153
View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1873507993737888202?s=12
I’m trying to figure out if the mural option negates the ability to extend a QO. Because if it does that’s a pretty big deal and a miss by the FO.
I don’t think it should negate that. My guess is in such a scenario, Sox exercise the option, Buehler declines, and then a QO is extended which is obviously also declined.
Are you the same one who wants to sign Bregman and disrupt the IF configuration, pay for his declining years, AND lose a draft pick due to his QO?