Red Sox sign Mitch Moreland

simplicio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2012
4,711
Not gonna lie, I adore Dombrowski's approach to transactions. Guess we've now rung the opening bell and everyone else can get started?
 

johnnywayback

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 8, 2004
1,421
So a first base/DH platoon with Hanley?
I think more like Moreland is our 1B against RHP with Hanley at DH. Against lefties, maybe Hanley at 1B with Young at DH? It really depends on who fills the 25th slot on the roster. Right now, it's Marco Hernandez. But hopefully they have budget room to get a decent RH bat who can play 3B if Panda flames out.
 

Spelunker

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
11,858
I think more like Moreland is our 1B against RHP with Hanley at DH. Against lefties, maybe Hanley at 1B with Young at DH? It really depends on who fills the 25th slot on the roster. Right now, it's Marco Hernandez. But hopefully they have budget room to get a decent RH bat who can play 3B if Panda flames out.
I was confused by this because I'd only looked at his 2016 splits, where he was pretty bad against RHP and decent against lefties, before going back and checking his career to see he normally has a standard platoon split. Is there any indication why he was so reversed last year?
 

MikeM

Member
SoSH Member
May 27, 2010
3,049
Florida
Was hoping for a little more offensive upside out of a LHH then this realistically gives us.

I'll like this more if guys like Bruce/Granderson don't get dealt in what mostly plays out to be a salary dump, and if Alvarez gets a multi-year deal.
 

foulkehampshire

hillbilly suburbanite
SoSH Member
Feb 25, 2007
5,099
Wesport, MA
Rotation on the corners and DH depending on platoon splits and health, it looks like.

RHP: Moreland 1B, Hanley DH, Pablo 3B.
LHP: Hanley 1B, Young DH/OF, Holt 3B.

Perhaps an expanded OF/DH role for Brentz to spell JBJ vs LHSP.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
So they replaced Travis Shaw with a more expensive version of Travis Shaw?

I'm not understanding the attraction here.

Wanted Jay Bruce for this spot. Oh well. We f'ing got Chris Sale!
 

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
29,517
St John's, NL
So we intend to replace David Ortiz's production in this lineup with a combination of Mitch Moreland, Pablo Sandoval and Chris Young?

Color me not thrilled about that prospect.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,289
Meh.

With all the talk of budget crunching is spending $5m on Moreland really any better of an upside play then simply telling Swihart to report to ST with a 1B mitt?
The upside play should be Swihart at catcher if they can sustain more than a week's worth of patience.
 

Byrdbrain

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,588
So we intend to replace David Ortiz's production in this lineup with a combination of Mitch Moreland, Pablo Sandoval and Chris Young?

Color me not thrilled about that prospect.
There is talk they may be upgrading the pitching.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 7, 2015
318
Moreland is one of the best defensive first basemen in the game, if not the best (won a GG last year FWIW). He'll start a lot more often than a split, I bet.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,424
Moreland is one of the best defensive first basemen in the game, if not the best (won a GG last year FWIW). He'll start a lot more often than a split, I bet.
I actually like him for Fenway. Lefties are always fun for this park. Might only hit 15-20 homers BUT the average and rbis will probably go up. Chili could probably work with him.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
Million dollar question is who takes on Buchholz
And given the apparent need to dump him now, why they picked up the option in the first place.

I know, 20/20 hindsight is just that, but if Sale was in their sights, and he clearly was, then this domino was always going to file if they succeeded.
 

jtn46

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 10, 2004
9,757
Norwalk, CT
So we intend to replace David Ortiz's production in this lineup with a combination of Mitch Moreland, Pablo Sandoval and Chris Young?

Color me not thrilled about that prospect.
Sox had the best offense in baseball. They figure to still be a very good offense and the pitching is dramatically improved.
 

rembrat

Member
SoSH Member
May 26, 2006
36,345
Not gonna lie, I adore Dombrowski's approach to transactions. Guess we've now rung the opening bell and everyone else can get started?
I like his style of getting shit done in the first hour and letting everyone else scramble.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
So we intend to replace David Ortiz's production in this lineup with a combination of Mitch Moreland, Pablo Sandoval and Chris Young?

Color me not thrilled about that prospect.
You're also getting a full year of Andrew Benintendi and not giving hundreds of at bats to Christian Vazquez unless he shows he's a better hitter than Kevin Cash.

They don't have to replace Ortiz. They need to get the same aggregate production. They can do that simply by not having black holes in LF, 3B, and C for more than half the season.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,298
deep inside Guido territory
Heyman has Moreland's career numbers at Fenway.

Moreland should also take well to the hitter-friendly Fenway Park, especially if past production is any indication. In 45 career plate appearances at Fenway Park, where he’ll now play 81 games per season, he’s hit .341/.378/.683 with four home runs and eight runs batted in. His 1.061 OPS at Fenway is his best output in any stadium in which he’s had at least 10 plate appearances.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,424
And given the apparent need to dump him now, why they picked up the option in the first place.

I know, 20/20 hindsight is just that, but if Sale was in their sights, and he clearly was, then this domino was always going to file if they succeeded.
Well you pick up the option because $13 for him is a steal. I think he's probably gone tomorrow night. Tomorrow should be fun still have some friends in the industry that say Kenley or Chapman is probably being locked up tomorrow. Not in the way Chapman is used to being locked up anyways haha
 

canderson

Mr. Brightside
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
39,428
Harrisburg, Pa.
I've always like Moreland (watch a lot of Texas). His bat/approach well into Fenway and plays extremely good defense.

He won't put up huge numbers and iirc has big slumps but he adds value, especially if they want Hanley as basically a full-time DH.
 

foulkehampshire

hillbilly suburbanite
SoSH Member
Feb 25, 2007
5,099
Wesport, MA
So we intend to replace David Ortiz's production in this lineup with a combination of Mitch Moreland, Pablo Sandoval and Chris Young?

Color me not thrilled about that prospect.
Sum of the parts. Captain Planet them right, a pinch of luck....I could see a DH that gives you 25-30 HR and a SLG heavy 800 OPS over a full season's worth of appearances. Post-Ortiz world, baby.

There's also plenty of addition by subtraction with less of Shaw, Holt, Vaquez, Hill. That was like 700-800 at-bats of pure shit.
 

Minneapolis Millers

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,753
Twin Cities
Has played well at Fenway. Is a LHH complement to Hanley at 1B. Gold glover, so he can also be a late inning defensive sub for Hanley. 1 year deal, cheap money. When they couldn't get the bat they liked (Beltran) for the money they wanted to pay, this was the kind of option B to expect. Handedness and defense provide value, too. And as I said in a different thread, you can replace Papi in lots of ways. Preventing runs helps with the run differential, too, and Moreland's D plus their pitching upgrades should prevent runs. Maybe we win a few more 4-3 games instead of losing them 5-4.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
21,478
Rogers Park
I was confused by this because I'd only looked at his 2016 splits, where he was pretty bad against RHP and decent against lefties, before going back and checking his career to see he normally has a standard platoon split. Is there any indication why he was so reversed last year?
.250ish BABIP.
 

pokey_reese

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 25, 2008
16,247
Boston, MA
Moreland is one of the best defensive first basemen in the game, if not the best (won a GG last year FWIW). He'll start a lot more often than a split, I bet.
Admittedly, I can't remember his defense at all from watching him, but I'm curious about this assertion because when I looked him up earlier, the first thing that jumped out at me was that he has horrible defensive numbers on Fangraphs for his entire career. Not even one season with a positive defensive value, and he has hundreds of innings at 1B over the last few years. He does appear to have a good zone rating on BRef, but other metrics seem to dislike him defensively. What have you seen that made him stand out to you as one of the best in the game?
 

MikeM

Member
SoSH Member
May 27, 2010
3,049
Florida
They don't have to replace Ortiz. They need to get the same aggregate production. They can do that simply by not having black holes in LF, 3B, and C for more than half the season.
It is not a great bet atm that C/3B is actually going to improve though. In fact, if one isn't buying into Pablo or the June-August Leon factor you can make the argument that it is probably more likely to be worse overall there.

There is reason that a quick search doesn't show a single person ever mentioning Mitch Moreland as replacement possibility here before today. At $5m this isn't terrible or anything, but it is pretty much a worse case scenario "upgrade" playing itself out in the search for offense.

Granted getting Sale today did change the equation quite a bit. Go run prevention I guess.
 

DeadlySplitter

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 20, 2015
33,247
hopefully Swihart can provide value again at C. With AB and Leon likely a pumpkin the LF experiment should end
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,783
The wrong side of the bridge....
Meh.

With all the talk of budget crunching is spending $5m on Moreland really any better of an upside play then simply telling Swihart to report to ST with a 1B mitt?
I hope he'll be too busy reporting with a 3B mitt. Now that they've signed a good defensive 1B, the obvious second position for Swihart is 3B--his arm and quickness would play well there, and that's where they have the biggest question mark. In the long run, he might well turn out a B.J. Surhoff type: a chameleon who moves between C and all four corner positions depending on team need.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,367
Not gonna lie, I adore Dombrowski's approach to transactions. Guess we've now rung the opening bell and everyone else can get started?
DD certainly makes sure nothing will disturb his Christmas vacation.
 

The Best Catch in 100 Years

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
791
Kyrgyzstan
Admittedly, I can't remember his defense at all from watching him, but I'm curious about this assertion because when I looked him up earlier, the first thing that jumped out at me was that he has horrible defensive numbers on Fangraphs for his entire career. Not even one season with a positive defensive value, and he has hundreds of innings at 1B over the last few years. He does appear to have a good zone rating on BRef, but other metrics seem to dislike him defensively. What have you seen that made him stand out to you as one of the best in the game?
"Horrible" is a big stretch. You get pretty severely dinged in WAR for being a first-baseman to begin with (start at -12.5 in defensive value in fWAR), and if you look at UZR he's been solidly above-average at 1B every year he's logged over 200 innings there, with his best two seasons coming in 2015 and 2016. The one defensive year that was actually bad was 2011, when about 23% of his innings came in RF.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I hope he'll be too busy reporting with a 3B mitt. Now that they've signed a good defensive 1B, the obvious second position for Swihart is 3B--his arm and quickness would play well there, and that's where they have the biggest question mark. In the long run, he might well turn out a B.J. Surhoff type: a chameleon who moves between C and all four corner positions depending on team need.
Third basemen use gloves, not mitts, but otherwise, I was thinking about this as well. I'm not convinced that their real plan is to use him exclusively behind the plate.
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,783
The wrong side of the bridge....
Moreland's >1.000 OPS at Fenway might have something to do with his hit tendencies: although he has a low opposite-field percentage, that appears to be due to an unusually sharp decline in fly-ball distance left of left-center. His pattern for deep fly balls is kind of a high-top fade, and the left side of the fade looks tailor-made for the Monster:

 

Georgy Zhukov

New Member
Aug 19, 2016
481
Well the Sox needed depth at 1B so this is a decent signing. If he's your starter heading into the season, while not ideal, he's a good defender and you can bat him towards the bottom. The Sox could always acquire some more pop at the deadline.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 7, 2015
318
Admittedly, I can't remember his defense at all from watching him, but I'm curious about this assertion because when I looked him up earlier, the first thing that jumped out at me was that he has horrible defensive numbers on Fangraphs for his entire career. Not even one season with a positive defensive value, and he has hundreds of innings at 1B over the last few years. He does appear to have a good zone rating on BRef, but other metrics seem to dislike him defensively. What have you seen that made him stand out to you as one of the best in the game?
"Horrible" is a big stretch. You get pretty severely dinged in WAR for being a first-baseman to begin with (start at -12.5 in defensive value in fWAR), and if you look at UZR he's been solidly above-average at 1B every year he's logged over 200 innings there, with his best two seasons coming in 2015 and 2016. The one defensive year that was actually bad was 2011, when about 23% of his innings came in RF.
Pretty much this. And that 1B is, to me, not as strong as a defensive position as it may have once been - I mean, who would you consider elite?

Moreland benefited from a solid INF defense with the Rangers, that might mean some regression, if only from losing Beltre alone.
 

pokey_reese

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 25, 2008
16,247
Boston, MA
"Horrible" is a big stretch. You get pretty severely dinged in WAR for being a first-baseman to begin with (start at -12.5 in defensive value in fWAR), and if you look at UZR he's been solidly above-average at 1B every year he's logged over 200 innings there, with his best two seasons coming in 2015 and 2016. The one defensive year that was actually bad was 2011, when about 23% of his innings came in RF.
Ah, thanks, I was not careful in my Fangraphs sorting. I now see that he was the top 1B in 2016 by having a negative Defensive number of 'only' -2.7 (while Hanley was -13).
 

Byrdbrain

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,588
Based on that spray chart I think it is safe to say that our new 1B will see an infield shift roughly 100% of the time.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,424
Well the Sox needed depth at 1B so this is a decent signing. If he's your starter heading into the season, while not ideal, he's a good defender and you can bat him towards the bottom. The Sox could always acquire some more pop at the deadline.
If he doesn't work out I think we will see Sam Travis here sooner than later. People forget about him because he got hurt very early last year.