Justin Turner declines option (11.03.23 update)

bloodysox

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Can we please stop with Kiké batting 2nd?

In 1769 career PAs vRs he is hitting

.226/.291/.380

Cora should be fired if he hits him 2nd. Kiké's OBP vR for the Sox for the last 2 yrs is .275 and .321. He needs to be at the bottom of the lineup ffs
Amen to that, in no world should Kike be batting 2nd.

I really like him as a player but his best attribute isn’t his hitting and it makes much more sense to have him in the bottom third.
 

nighthob

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24-27 Window? Here is a list of some of the top young talent in MLB right now. https://theathletic.com/3676269/2022/10/11/mlb-playoffs-top-25-young-players/

These are the star of 24-27 and there is no Red Soxs on it. If the window is 24-27, the Red Sox better start getting great young players soon or we may need to push it back to 27-30, I'm not sure Marcelo Mayer is going to be another Fernando Tatis.
The point isn’t for their current minor leaguers to be the stars per se (aside from Mayer and a couple of others). It’s for the minors to produce a steady stream of solid starters so that Boston can focus on adding key free agents to put the team over the top. The Dodgers model.
 

simplicio

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I really thought Darwinzon was going to be a potent part of the Sox bullpen for years. Always had some difficulty throwing strikes but he couldn't seem to improve in that department. Someone will claim him though, no?
I'm not sure, he had a 5.73 ERA and 7.4 BB/9 in AAA this year, he looks pretty cooked.
 

chawson

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I'm not sure, he had a 5.73 ERA and 7.4 BB/9 in AAA this year, he looks pretty cooked.
At the same time I’m sure they’d love to keep him in the system if possible, and maybe he clears. They’re very short on left-handed arms, and maybe something clicks.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I really thought Darwinzon was going to be a potent part of the Sox bullpen for years. Always had some difficulty throwing strikes but he couldn't seem to improve in that department. Someone will claim him though, no?
Yeah, I used to think the same thing. Kid had a great arm.
 

nvalvo

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It’s always worth taking a chance on Darwinzon types. You can teach command — not always, but sometimes. You can’t teach stuff like he had.

It didn’t work out for him here. I’m sure someone else will give him a chance.
 

Max Power

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With this signing, the 2023 Red Sox have 7 players from the 2018 World Series. Four Red Sox and three Dodgers. It would have been four each if they had signed Rich Hill or if Verdugo made the postseason roster.
 

Rovin Romine

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With this signing, the 2023 Red Sox have 7 players from the 2018 World Series. Four Red Sox and three Dodgers. It would have been four each if they had signed Rich Hill or if Verdugo made the postseason roster.
And the Dodgers have. . .it looks like 4 Dodgers, and 2 Sox?
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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Justin Turner wanted to re-sign with Dodgers before the plan quickly changed
Jack Harris for the Los Angeles Times said:
“You hear that from a lot of guys, how tough free agency is,” [Turner] added. “I think everyone has this picture in their mind of what they want or how they think it is gonna go. It just never really goes according to plan.”
Indeed, staying with the Dodgers had been Plan A for Turner entering the offseason.

. . .

After failing to bridge the gap with Turner, who was seeking multiyear offers . . . the Dodgers instead signed J.D. Martinez to a one-year, $10-million contract on Dec. 17 — effectively finding a cheaper option to replace Turner’s veteran right-handed bat in a predominantly designated hitting role.

. . .

He’s eager for his opportunity in Boston, where he was recruited by other former Dodgers (Kiké Hernández chief among them) as well as New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick, who texted Turner to extol Boston’s culture as a sports town.
Turner also is happy to be with another storied franchise and joked during an introductory press conference this month that he’s looking forward to seeing would-be fly outs turn into doubles off the Green Monster in Fenway Park.


“I’m just excited to be part of their organization,” Turner reiterated Sunday.

. . .

“I don’t think it does anyone any good to go back and speculate as to what happened,” he said. “I don’t want anything to blow back or taint the last nine years that I had and everything we accomplished.”
 

AlNipper49

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Wait, fucking Belichick texted Turner? I picture Bill as the type of guy who doesn't respond to his wife's texts because he doesn't necessarily buy into the whole texting thing.
 

AlNipper49

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Imagine you're a B level athlete like Turner and Belichick texts you. If BB texted me right now to go throw an ice bath on my sleeping child I probably would.
 

effectivelywild

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This is only tangentially relevant and obviously putting a lot of weight into a "like" on social media but I have to imagine that Turner asked Betts about Boston and it might throw a bit of cold water on the "Betts always wanted to leave Boston" contingent.
 

JM3

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Moving this conversation of JT v. JD here...

I think losing JD does hurt. Not necessarily in that they should have kept him, but from a downgrade from last year. He stunk in the second half of last season, but he had an .849 OPS in the first half and was very good for this team when they still had some hope. I suppose Turner could be more consistent than JD, but hot JD carried this team for portions of last season and I'm not sure if Turner has that ceiling, but they will need him to especially with Story out and X no longer in town.
Is there really any merit to an argument that, assuming the player is going to play regularly regardless, it's better to have a streaky player than a consistent player?

But even by that metric, JD wasn't really particularly better than Turner last year.

In his best month, May, buoyed by a .520 BABIP, JD had a 1.070 OPS & 202 wRC+.
In his best month, July, with only a .444 BABIP, JT had a 1.030 OPS & 195 wRC+.

JD's 2nd best month was the last month of the season, 147 wRC+. JT's 2nd best month was also the last month with a 166 wRC+.

Last year, JT also had a 175 wRC+ in high leverage situations...compared to 65 for JD. So it's hard to say JD did a lot of carrying last year.

Also, despite similar overall wRC+ last year (123 for JT, 119 for JD), I'm more optimistic about JT's improvement from 1st half to 2nd (108 to 152), than JD's drop off from 1st to 2nd (137 to 94).

& finally, Turner is a much more valuable player overall in part because of his ability to play defense (Turner had 2.4 fWAR in 532 PAs compared to Martinez having 1.0 fWAR in 596 PAs).
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Re: the final point, I agree that Turner is theoretically more valuable because he can play defense- but is he going to be asked to do that with the Sox? If not his actual value will take a big hit. Granted, somebody has to DH.
 

JM3

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Re: the final point, I agree that Turner is theoretically more valuable because he can play defense- but is he going to be asked to do that with the Sox? If not his actual value will take a big hit. Granted, somebody has to DH.
Well, last year he played the equivalent of less than 64 games of roughly league average defensive innings at 3B & the rest of his time was DH or PH, so he doesn't need to play a ton in the field to provide value in that manner. His ability to play 3B & potentially 1B (even though he hasn't done it since 2016), has a large impact on team construction, wherever they choose to actually deploy him. It's much more useful than JD who played the equivalent of 33 games in the OF, badly, in '21 & none in '22.

Agree the fWAR comparison may have been shoddy as shorthand for all that, though.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Re: the final point, I agree that Turner is theoretically more valuable because he can play defense- but is he going to be asked to do that with the Sox? If not his actual value will take a big hit. Granted, somebody has to DH.
I imagine he'll play some 3B and some 1B. Even if it's just at a similar ratio to when JD played the OF (~21% of his starts, 135 of 635), that should be 30ish games if we assume he starts about 150 games.
 

HangingW/ScottCooper

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Re: the final point, I agree that Turner is theoretically more valuable because he can play defense- but is he going to be asked to do that with the Sox? If not his actual value will take a big hit. Granted, somebody has to DH.
Having the flexibility with injuries or just needing guys to take days off has value. If he can play 1B/3B for 10+ games each it gives Devers and Casas some time off their feet.
 

JM3

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By advanced stats, Turner was better than Devers at 3B last year. Technically he's probably their 2nd best 3B behind Mondesi, but I don't see a lineup almost ever making sense that Mondesi is in where he isn't playing SS. & along with Duvall, Turner's probably in the running for most competent backup 1B guy who hasn't played there in several years. Dalbec has been pretty bad.

Was going to post about lineup permutations, but that seems like a somewhere else post.
 

Blizzard of 1978

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Have a lot of Los Angeles relatives who are Dodgers fans. They hate that Turner left for J.D. They say we are going to love Turner and really expect 2 years from him and not 1. He is still in good shape.
 

Rovin Romine

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It certainly is. Not to diminish it, but how many players have been regular fixtures in the Sox lineup at age 38+? It feels like the kind of stat that is going to be more or less dominated by high quality/legendary players in the first place.
And perhaps sounds a note of caution for next year. . .
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Professional at bat after professional at bat, has a real knack for the big moment, and doesn’t try to do too much (but can certainly take one out, as we’ve seen). He brings a real sense of calm and gravitas to the lineup. The kind of guy built for playoff moments if we can just get there.
 

AB in DC

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I just want to chime in with my weekly plea to sign him for next year and give him another player option for 2025. He's great on the field and presumably off, and he's a joy to watch.
He's going to be 39 in a couple of months. And Cora already had to limit his infield innings this year, so I'm not sure how much more his body can take. How much do you really want to a pay a full-time DH at age 39+?
 

radsoxfan

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He's going to be 39 in a couple of months. And Cora already had to limit his infield innings this year, so I'm not sure how much more his body can take. How much do you really want to a pay a full-time DH at age 39+?
With 3 other DHs already on the roster....
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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He's going to be 39 in a couple of months. And Cora already had to limit his infield innings this year, so I'm not sure how much more his body can take. How much do you really want to a pay a full-time DH at age 39+?
Other than recently because of his heel issue, has Cora really had to limit Turner's infield innings this season? He was signed to be the primary DH, so it's not like the expectation was he was going to play a lot in the field anyway. The positions he was anticipated to cover (1B/3B) both had full time starters. I would think if they were too concerned with wear and tear from him being in the field, they would not have expanded his duties to cover 2B in non-emergency situations.

I don't think this is a situation like they had with Ortiz where he has had chronic leg issues that need to be mitigated. The bone bruise on his heel supposedly requires 4-5 weeks being off of it to fully heal, which he should be able to do in the off-season. Why wouldn't something similar to the $15M his player option is worth be good enough to hang on to him for another year?