Red Sox Select LHP Jason Groome 12th Overall

Bigpupp

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I'm just going to disagree on Chatam. I mean I hope I'm wrong and the Sox know something I don't or see something in him that I don't. But I have a hard time believing he was top of the board at 51, unless you've moved on the to the "almost completely certain to sign for under slot" board. I'll be surprised and disappointed if he signs for slot or more. For one, he's just not a great prospect, for two, pulling a guess out of my ass I'd say there was a greater than 50% shot he'd be around at 88 if you liked him that much.

The thing with Chatam is that he doesn't have typical underdog type stuff to point to. He's not "short" like Pedroia or Betts. He doesn't have a skill that isn't valued highly like Youkilis. He wasn't beset by an injury filled year like JBJ. He's a pretty straightforward looking player who had good looking numbers in a tiny conference and school. And I'm crediting the Sox for thinking he'll be able to stay at SS, which most scouts think he won't be able to do. Even understanding the limit of money they can save with the 2nd round pick, if it wasn't at least partially motivated by the fact that they need to pay Groome then it seems like a really big stretch of a pick.
Mayo said on the telecast that Chatham's name was starting to sneak into the first round and that he was the best college ss in the draft. So I disagree with your assessment completely.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Thanks for the knowledge.

I don't know if DD sandbagged his later picks. If he did, that's bad. If he didn't and is prepared to roll the pick over if Groome's demands are unreasonable, that's fine. I just don't want to see the Sox stake the entire draft on this kid.
See, this is exactly my concern. In addition to the even-greater-than-average risk that Groome will amount to nothing, it seems we have reduced our odds of striking gold on later picks to ensure we're able to meet Groome's financial demands. (I'll gladly stand corrected if DD takes a hard line on Groome and uses the savings on 51 in the later rounds to go over slot on guys who may have slid due to signability concerns.)

I'm aware that smas's assessment isn't the consensus here, of course.
It's not binary, though. They clearly haven't staked the entire draft on Groome. Selecting him has had an impact on the picks that followed, but there's a middle ground here and that's where they are living. Personally, given the choice between grabbing a premier talent and having some picks in the next 9 rounds be lower ceiling guys who save money, or grabbing someone who won't cost as much but doesn't have that level of talent... I pick the premier talent every time. A team like the Red Sox is hoping to not have picks in this range most years, and even when they do, players of this caliber slipping to you is a rare phenomenon. Take advantage while you can. Sure, a Benintendi happens sometimes, too, but that's also rare and not something you can plan for.
 

FanSinceBoggs

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I hope they get this this guy signed as it will really elevate the Red Sox SP prospect pool.

With the exception of the Dodgers (Urias, DeLeon, Holmes, Montas) and maybe the Pirates (Glasnow and Taillon but I can't find a third guy) can we find a team with a better group of SP prospects than the Red Sox: Espinoza, Kopech, and Groom?

The Rockies are close with Pint and Hoffman, but Gray no longer qualifies. The Marlins drafted Garrett, but Kolek had Tommy John. The Twins are interesting, with Berrios and Jay, but K.Stewart hasn't developed as planned. The A's are set up nicely with Manaea and Puk but I can't find a third guy. The Rays have Snell and Honeywell, but I can't find a third guy.

The Cardinals just drafted D.Hudson to go along with Reyes, Weaver, and Flaherty. In contrast to the Cubs, the Cardinals believe in spending first round picks on starting pitchers. The Cardinals are pretty loaded with SP prospects.

The Nationals might have a better group of SP prospects with Giolito, Fedde, Lopez, and they just drafted Dunning in the first round.

Unfortunately, the Red Sox top SP prospects are a few years away from the major leagues. Whereas other teams like the Nationals, Dodgers, and Pirates have SP prospects who are ready or just about ready for the major leagues.
 
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ZMart100

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The Braves are pretty strong Newcomb, Blair, #3 pick Anderson, as well as #40 Wentz plus plenty of mid-rotation depth.
The Reds are also worth mentioning with Stephenson, Reed and Garrett.
 

shaggydog2000

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I can't tell if you stopped reading after the first sentence of my post or if you agree with me. The makeup questions do not concern me, if they weren't there, he'd be property of the Reds.
I was just making a statement about how absurdly nebulous and high school rumor-like the accusations of "makeup issues" were. I hear a sports writer said an unnamed scout said something that had absolutely no details and didn't even say what the category of issues might be.

When you have actual proof a player failed a drug test, drove drunk, assaulted a girl, assaulted a guy, shoplifted, stole computers, or shot himself in the leg in a club, then lets talk about his issues. The sheer level of conjecture is silly. One poster above jumped to a comparison to a known heroin addict. Based on no information whatsoever. Let's dial it back a bit and wait for concrete details. Which I assume will never come.
 

AZBlue

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The rumors that Groome was kicked out of IMG have been refuted. He left because he was homesick and wanted to spend his senior season with his life-long friends and wanted to win a state championship with his buddies. The rumor about Vandy dropping Groome has also been refuted. The biggest problem for the Red Sox may be the newbe agent/advisor who has his first name client. Look for the advisor may try to use this as a marketing opportunity and draw attention to himself. Several MLB teams have already raised questions about the advisor.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The rumors that Groome was kicked out of IMG have been refuted. He left because he was homesick and wanted to spend his senior season with his life-long friends and wanted to win a state championship with his buddies. The rumor about Vandy dropping Groome has also been refuted. The biggest problem for the Red Sox may be the newbe agent/advisor who has his first name client. Look for the advisor may try to use this as a marketing opportunity and draw attention to himself. Several MLB teams have already raised questions about the advisor.
Can you point to a source for the bolded?
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Sorry, missed the bolding above. Was responding to idea that he was kicked out of IMG.

This piece by Alex Speier includes a claim that there were industry sources disputing the report that Groome was no longer wanted by Vandy.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/06/11/questions-loom-over-red-sox-top-draft-pick/aCIT2kav8iuobCoc0WggCN/story.html

Still, questions formed even into the week of the draft. Groome had committed to pitch at Vanderbilt, one of the top programs for developing college pitchers. But in the days before the draft, he de-committed from David Price’s alma mater and instead committed to Chipola Junior College in Florida. The Boston Herald, citing a source familiar with the situation, reported that Vanderbilt “was no longer interested in having Groome attend” due to a non-talent-based issue.

Yet two industry sources disputed that account, suggesting that Groome had elected to change his commitment from Vanderbilt to Chipola in order to improve his financial leverage just prior to the draft. At a four-year program like Vanderbilt, Groome — if unable to reach an agreement with the team that drafted him — would not be draft-eligible again until after his junior year in 2019.

If he instead enrolls in a junior college program, Groome would have a chance to re-enter the draft next summer. In some ways, the change of commitment came as something of a statement of purpose for teams wondering whether they’d have the financial flexibility to meet the asking price of Groome, who is advised by Jeff Randazzo.
 
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Hee Sox Choi

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From CBS Sports:

Boston Red Sox: Landed the draft's top talent at No. 12.

New Jersey HS LHP Jason Groome came into the draft as arguably the top talent available, but he fell to the Red Sox with the 12th pick because of bonus concerns and vague makeup questions. One of his coaches doesn't understand those makeup questions. From Alex Speier of the Boston Globe:

"I've had some kids that had true character issues. He wasn't one of them," said Bob Barth, Groome's summer coach with the Tri-State Arsenal over the last three summers. "The makeup questions to me are a little weird. He showed nothing but great makeup. I personally didn't see the flaws in his makeup that I've been hearing about recently. I think a lot of that is rumor-based, started by jealous peers, and it gets rolling and running. You can't stop it once it starts rolling down the hill. I think [Thursday] he paid the price for that a little bit, and he didn't pay a price for it, because he just got drafted by the Boston Red Sox.

The real question is whether the Red Sox will be able to sign Groome, who is said to be seeking a signing bonus upwards of $6 million. Boston has a $6,997,400 bonus pool available for the top 10 rounds.
 

smastroyin

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There were reports that he wanted "top 3" money. The third slot is $6.5 MM, the fourth slot is $5.3 MM.

Most reports say "top 5" Fifth slot is $4.3MM, 6th is $4 MM that's where the $4 MM number we have heard comes from.

But this is all vagaries. You could say when he says "top 5" money he means anywhere from the range of $4MM to the $9 MM top slot, it could mean the average, it could be the median, it could mean just above the lower (which is what most people have assumed). We'll see what he actually wants/gets
 

RedOctober3829

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The rumors around the college baseball world is that the "character" issue is weed with Groome. I hope it's just a teenage phase and he grows up and matures. They had to pick him at #12 he is too much of a talent to pass up.
 

FanSinceBoggs

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The rumors around the college baseball world is that the "character" issue is weed with Groome. I hope it's just a teenage phase and he grows up and matures. They had to pick him at #12 he is too much of a talent to pass up.
I would rather have a player who has a problem with weed than a problem with alcohol. Of course, I would prefer that my player doesn't use either one.
 

RedOctober3829

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The "top 3 money" and "top 5 money" statements were made before Groome dropped from possible 1/1 to No. 12.
Well, I think the statement of changing his commitment to a JC is more powerful than saying he wants top 5 money. He has more leverage now that he can just go to Chipola and pitch for 1 season then be eligible for the draft next year rather than a 3-year commitment to Vanderbilt. If he puts up dominating numbers at Chipola he'd have a decent shot at being the #1 pick next year. With the lack of depth in top quality arms in the Red Sox system Groome can put them over the barrel now.
 

Otis Foster

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Logic would tell you that the RS know what he wants and are fairly confident they can go there, if necessary. Logic also has a nasty way of biting you in the backside, so I won't be shocked if they can't get to yes.

However, the lack of quality arms in the top farm clubs is quite striking, although Groome certainly is not a short term answer, and blowing a high draft choice on a guy who doesn't sign would be an industrial grade disaster simply because of the lost opportunity.

Anyway, weed doesn't bother me, unless he's doing a bag a day and communing with William Burroughs.
 

JimD

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Well, I think the statement of changing his commitment to a JC is more powerful than saying he wants top 5 money. He has more leverage now that he can just go to Chipola and pitch for 1 season then be eligible for the draft next year rather than a 3-year commitment to Vanderbilt. If he puts up dominating numbers at Chipola he'd have a decent shot at being the #1 pick next year. With the lack of depth in top quality arms in the Red Sox system Groome can put them over the barrel now.
He could also have arm or shoulder problems and end up damaged goods, so this strategy is not without risk for Groome. Is it worth a few million dollar and delaying his professional career?
 

RedOctober3829

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He could also have arm or shoulder problems and end up damaged goods, so this strategy is not without risk for Groome. Is it worth a few million dollar and delaying his professional career?
Sure he could and he'd be taking a risk by going to college as every kid who gets drafted out of HS does. However, Cal Quantrill hasn't pitched in over a year for Stanford due to TJ and he got picked in the top 10 so it's not all lost if Groome gets injured.
 

j44thor

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If he does go back into the draft he also risks the chance of being drafted by MN or CIN next season. Does he want to go to a team that is known for having a great ML system that advances players rather aggressively or go to a team that may hold you back a season or two to max out their pre-FA control?
 

MuzzyField

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What is the value of reaching free agency sooner compared to being a possible top-5 pick next year and delaying free agency by a year? The difference between 4 and 6 million now seems like peanuts compared to getting to a free agency payday ASAP.
 

kieckeredinthehead

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If he does go back into the draft he also risks the chance of being drafted by MN or CIN next season. Does he want to go to a team that is known for having a great ML system that advances players rather aggressively or go to a team that may hold you back a season or two to max out their pre-FA control?
This goes both ways - the Sox have not exactly been a model organization for developing pitchers.
 

RedOctober3829

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What is the value of reaching free agency sooner compared to being a possible top-5 pick next year and delaying free agency by a year? The difference between 4 and 6 million now seems like peanuts compared to getting to a free agency payday ASAP.
The value of more money in his pocket immediately as he signs has to be a deciding factor for these bonus babies. Minor league players make peanuts and since he's going to be there for at least a couple years why not take all that you can get now? As we've discussed in the thread, injury risks are real and this could be the only big payday he ever gets.
 

chrisfont9

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I would rather have a player who has a problem with weed than a problem with alcohol. Of course, I would prefer that my player doesn't use either one.
If weed is self-medication for some problem, then it's a problem. Otherwise, this couldn't be better news. A potential franchise LHP drops into our lap because teams can't see that smoking a little pot (in moderation) is actually less harmful teen behavior than drinking?

He'd fit right in in Colorado.
In civilian life maybe. Aren't the Rockies run by Christian fundamentalists?
 

Otis Foster

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If weed is self-medication for some problem, then it's a problem. Otherwise, this couldn't be better news. A potential franchise LHP drops into our lap because teams can't see that smoking a little pot (in moderation) is actually less harmful teen behavior than drinking?



In civilian life maybe. Aren't the Rockies run by Christian fundamentalists?

From Wikipedia, of all things - too lazy to look further:

"2006 controversy over Christian rules

On June 1, 2006, USA Today reported that Rockies management, including manager Clint Hurdle, had instituted an explicitly Christian code of conduct for the team's players, banning men's magazines (such as Maxim and Playboy) and sexually explicit music from the team's clubhouse.[35] The newspaper reported:

Behind the scenes, [the Rockies] quietly have become an organization guided by Christianity – open to other religious beliefs but embracing a Christian-based code of conduct they believe will bring them focus and success.
From ownership on down, it's an approach the Rockies are proud of – and something they are wary about publicizing. "We're nervous, to be honest with you", Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd says. "It's the first time we ever talked about these issues publicly. The last thing we want to do is offend anyone because of our beliefs."

The article sparked controversy, including criticism in a column from The Nation, where Dave Zirin stated:

San Francisco Giants first baseman-outfielder Mark Sweeney, who spent 2003 and 2004 with the Rockies, said, "You wonder if some people are going along with it just to keep their jobs. Look, I pray every day. I have faith. It's always been part of my life. But I don't want something forced on me. Do they really have to check to see whether I have a Playboy in my locker?"[36]
Soon after the USA Today article appeared, The Denver Post published an article featuring many Rockies players contesting the claims made in the USA Today article.[37] Former Rockies pitcher Jason Jennings said:

"[The article in USA Today] was just bad. I am not happy at all. Some of the best teammates I have ever had are the furthest thing from Christian", Jennings said. "You don't have to be a Christian to have good character. They can be separate. [The article] was misleading.""
 

MuzzyField

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The value of more money in his pocket immediately as he signs has to be a deciding factor for these bonus babies. Minor league players make peanuts and since he's going to be there for at least a couple years why not take all that you can get now? As we've discussed in the thread, injury risks are real and this could be the only big payday he ever gets.
True, but if he walks away, he's placing a $4-million bet on himself with the chance he never has a payday at all.

I'm in the camp that a deal gets done. I can't imagine the Sox making this pick without already having an idea of what a done deal looks like. Now if Groome and his Boras wannabe agent are going to change the calculus and play negotiating games it could go off the rails.

When it comes to starting pitching, if a player is ready there can't be many teams looking to delay the clock more than a couple of months.

This pick is an attempt to avoid having to keep going to the free agent starting pitching well at 30-million/year. In three years will that cost be 35-40-million/year?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Since draft pools and slotting went into effect in 2012, all of 5 first or supplementary/compensatory/competitive balance round picks did not sign and really only one is really a direct comp to Groome, IMO.

2012 - Mark Appel - A junior at Stanford and expected to be overall #1, he fell due to signability concerns and was taken 8th by Pittsburgh. He instead went back for his senior year. Was drafted #1 the following year by Houston. He reportedly turned down a predraft offer of $6M from Houston and then $3.8M at slot from Pitt in 2012 and eventually took $6.35M the following year. Not a very good comp for Groome, as he had leverage, but the argument can certainly be made that perhaps the extra year in college might have hurt him in the long run.

2013 - Phillip Bickford - High school draftee was taken 10th overall by Toronto but turned down $2.9M and enrolled at Cal St Fullerton. After one year, he optioned the Bryce Harper playbook and transferred to the College of Southern Nevada so that he could be draft eligible after two years instead of three. He subsequently was picked 18th by SF and signed for $2.3M. This is the closest comp to Groome, IMO.

2013 - Matt Krook - High school draftee, taken 35th overall by Miami Marlins, failed his physical and Miami withdrew offer. Not very relevant, but should be noted he enrolled at Oregon, blew out his elbow and was subsequently just selected in the fourth round by SF.

2014 - Brady Aiken - Not even going to bother with the details as we all know what happened and it's not even remotely relevant.

2015 - Kyle Funkhouser - Louisville junior draftee, he was taken 35th overall by LAD and turned down a reported offer of $2M (slot being $1.75) to return for his senior year at Louisville, where his stock plummeted and was just drafted in the fourth round by Detroit. He's likely looking at a signing bonus in the $500K range.

Now, again, I really only think Bickford is truly relevant as two of these guys were college juniors with leverage and two were injury cases. Bickford is the closest comp. But I wanted to list them all to illustrate that since the new rules have gone into effect, only 5 of 182 picks taken before the start of the second round have not signed and only one that was in the place Groome is right now.

Guys just don't hold out like they used to anymore because there's a cap on the potential upside to rolling those dice now. Yes, if he went to college or Juco and came back to the draft he could potentially double his money if he ended up going #1 overall, or even if he went top three. But *only* if he went top three. And that's ginormous risk to take. In the previous iteration of the draft, he could go at virtually any slot and play whatever games he and his agent wished. That game can't really be played anymore because the system has changed so much. He can go to Juco for a year but next year is considered a much stronger draft class. So he plays the game again and returns to Juco to enter 2018. And at that point, even if he performs and matures perfectly, who knows what other draftees emerge over the next couple years?

Most of the major draft guys now assume that absent injury complications, every first round pick signs. Law, Callis, Mayo, every time I see them asked about a particular player, they always answer that they expect them to sign. I think there's no way they don't ink this kid.
 

nvalvo

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That seems like a key point. Even if nothing happens to diminish his intrinsic value, stronger competition next year means there's a good chance he's looking at a similar outcome, and maybe with a less attractive suitor.
While obviously the Sox will want to ink Groome, the 13th pick next year in a good draft class is nothing to sneeze at as a fallback.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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And/or Matt Harrington


He can go to Juco for a year but next year is considered a much stronger draft class.
I feel like I hear this every year. This was supposedly a very strong draft class a week ago. Part of that is the hype machine trying to generate interest in the draft, so I don't think that's going to be a major factor.

It's in Boston's best interest to work out a deal here. There is almost no chance they pick up a talent like this with the 13th pick next year, even if the draft is a bit deeper. They'll open the pocketbook so long as Groome's agent doesn't get silly.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I feel like I hear this every year. This was supposedly a very strong draft class a week ago. Part of that is the hype machine trying to generate interest in the draft, so I don't think that's going to be a major factor.
.
I'm sorry, not sure what outlets you follow, but I never heard this described as a very strong draft class, or even a strong one. It was considered stronger* than last year, but It was considered weak in high school position players with the exception of a couple catchers, weak in high school arms, decent in colleges OFers and pitchers but not much for infielders or catchers. It had been described as such since last year.

I'm also not sure what hype machine you're talking about. This isn't the NFL. While they have started televising it, no one has any dreams of it being a cash cow for the league. If it were, it would be on ESPN at a time people watch, not in the middle of the afternoon on a Thursday.

The big draft guys have been talking about the strength of 2017 for a while now. Obviously that can change between now and then through injury or performance, high school kids flaming out or even more guys emerging. But it most certainly should play into the mindset of Groome and his agent. It's not going to guarantee anything as far as signing obviously but if his agent is worth his salt he's going to factor it into his advisement.
 

LondonSox

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Since draft pools and slotting went into effect in 2012, all of 5 first or supplementary/compensatory/competitive balance round picks did not sign and really only one is really a direct comp to Groome, IMO.

2012 - Mark Appel - A junior at Stanford and expected to be overall #1, he fell due to signability concerns and was taken 8th by Pittsburgh. He instead went back for his senior year. Was drafted #1 the following year by Houston. He reportedly turned down a predraft offer of $6M from Houston and then $3.8M at slot from Pitt in 2012 and eventually took $6.35M the following year. Not a very good comp for Groome, as he had leverage, but the argument can certainly be made that perhaps the extra year in college might have hurt him in the long run.

.
Why do you say Appel has leverage so is not a very good comp. Groome is registered at a JC so he can re enter the draft next year, so.... just like Appel.
Further, he was the potential number 1 pick who slipped, just like Groome.
Seems like this is a good comp to me.

On the other hand, I do think the knock on Groome, ex the unknown like weed, is maturity and sign ability. It would seem like going to JC and turning down a decent offer from his favourite team, no less, would only raise the sign ability concerns. If not also the maturity/ desire side.

He also won't face much competition nor great coaching, so there's meaningful risk, and not sure what changes in terms of character/ signing concerns in a year's time. You need to go top 5 or so to beat the offer the Sox can make, that's not clearly obvious. I'd take the money. You don't know who else will be at the top of the draft, as options for high picks nor who is drafting.
 

threecy

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It's in Boston's best interest to work out a deal here. There is almost no chance they pick up a talent like this with the 13th pick next year, even if the draft is a bit deeper. They'll open the pocketbook so long as Groome's agent doesn't get silly.
Another aspect of this...we often hear complaining when someone's service time is getting used at the big league level. If the Red Sox fail to sign him and end up with the pick next year, they've essentially lost a year of service time for a high level prospect slot.
 

JimD

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Another aspect of this...we often hear complaining when someone's service time is getting used at the big league level. If the Red Sox fail to sign him and end up with the pick next year, they've essentially lost a year of service time for a high level prospect slot.
Not necessarily - they could draft a college pitcher next year who may need less development time in the minors than a HS prospect like Groome.
 

simplicio

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Another aspect of this...we often hear complaining when someone's service time is getting used at the big league level. If the Red Sox fail to sign him and end up with the pick next year, they've essentially lost a year of service time for a high level prospect slot.
Lost how? They've just kicked it down the road a year.
 

Bowlerman9

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Another aspect of this...we often hear complaining when someone's service time is getting used at the big league level. If the Red Sox fail to sign him and end up with the pick next year, they've essentially lost a year of service time for a high level prospect slot.
In theory, I guess. But we are talking about a HS pitcher here. The lowest odds of making it to the majors. If they draft a HS hitter, the "lost year" doesnt matter. If they draft someone from JUCO, they are probably on par. If they draft a college arm or bat, they come out a couple of years ahead.

There's really not much to the "lost year" argument in this case. Now if this were last year and you were talking about Benintendi (college bat), then you might have a point.
 

soxhop411

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“‪@WEEI‬: ESPN’s Keith Law: Teams believe Jason Groome was ‘upset’ to be drafted by Red Sox https://t.co/iannbBysgu

The Red Sox made one of the most interesting selections in the 2016 MLB draft as they selected high school left-hander Jason Groome No. 12 overall. Groome was once thought as a No. 1 overall pick, but slid all the way down to No. 12.

Being the No. 12 overall pick, the slot value for that pick is $3,192,800 and many believe he’s seeking top five draft pick money, which may have scared some teams away.

Appearing on Buster Olney’s podcast, ESPN’s Keith Law said teams believe Groome was upset to be selected by the Red Sox as he had a deal with another team picking after the Red Sox for more money. He did add he believes eventually Groome will sign for around $4 million.
 

j44thor

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LAD or STL would probably be the only teams that picked below BOS that could have pulled that off given their pool allotments and I don't believe STL has a history of going way over slot which would be the case. I suspect this is the tears of a certain GM and nothing more.
 

Otis Foster

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“‪@WEEI‬: ESPN’s Keith Law: Teams believe Jason Groome was ‘upset’ to be drafted by Red Sox https://t.co/iannbBysgu

The Red Sox made one of the most interesting selections in the 2016 MLB draft as they selected high school left-hander Jason Groome No. 12 overall. Groome was once thought as a No. 1 overall pick, but slid all the way down to No. 12.

Being the No. 12 overall pick, the slot value for that pick is $3,192,800 and many believe he’s seeking top five draft pick money, which may have scared some teams away.

Appearing on Buster Olney’s podcast, ESPN’s Keith Law said teams believe Groome was upset to be selected by the Red Sox as he had a deal with another team picking after the Red Sox for more money. He did add he believes eventually Groome will sign for around $4 million.
Is this legit? Doesn't that simply open the door for multiple teams to enter into an array of more or less informal contingent agreements with any number of prospects? Or can it be considered tampering in advance with the ability of the ultimate drafting team to consummate a deal?

Maybe it's common and I've just been asleep at the wheel. (I know, an invitation for high level snark.)
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,070
Hingham, MA
LAD or STL would probably be the only teams that picked below BOS that could have pulled that off given their pool allotments and I don't believe STL has a history of going way over slot which would be the case. I suspect this is the tears of a certain GM and nothing more.
Yeah I mean this doesn't exactly scream "upset"

 

Byrdbrain

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,588
It's very common and has been happening for years, there may be rules against it but if there are they are ignored.
A team will call an agent and say that we will take your guy here but only if he'll sign for $X, if the agent says no they'll go to the next guy on the list.

This is answering Otis of course.