Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

ElcaballitoMVP

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Are the Padres actually shopping Kim? Or are they just willing to listen to offers (overpays) for a player they like and have a role for?

I think the Sox are most likely competing against the Padres for a talent that the Padres like and plan to use. Not sure that looking at the holes in other teams as if it is a competition just between those few teams and the Red Sox is particularly helpful unless the Padres are motivated sellers.

It doesn't seem like they are.
I mean, yeah, they need to give the Padres something they'd want more than having Kim on their team. That goes without saying. Which is why I said I didn't think the Pivetta, Verdugo, Dalbec offer would get it done and why I proposed a deal centered around Houck. It would give the Padres a guy who can start or relieve, similar to what they had in Nick Martinez last year. It gives them a cost-controlled SP for next year when Darvish and Snell are free agents. Maybe that's not enough for SD to give up on Kim, but I think it's a solid start for both teams.
 

JM3

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I know the Kim stuff is likely overkill, but even in a vacuum I'd still have Kim >> Verdugo. I buy Verdugo is likely to be better offensively in 2023, but the D is not remotely close. Add in the SS need >> OF need.

Steamer has Kim in for a WAR regression from last season and still clearly above Verdugo (2.9 to 2.1).

Also, despite the peripherals I do see some potential offensive upside given the Korea #s and early MLB trajectory.
Sure. I just don't think Verdugo + a starter + a platoon guy is an insulting offer for Kim, & I think Verdugo is the better hitter. Kim's ++ SS defense is obviously far more valuable than Verdugo's avg outfield defense.
 

Yo La Tengo

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Marlins are sending Pablo Lopez and prospects to the Twins for Luis Arraez. Any insight on how Miami is going to fit this infield together? At first I thought it might make a Wendle trade more likely but now I'm not sure.

Arraez seems like a poor defender at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and LF. Not sure what to make of the Segura, Wendle, Chisholm, Cooper, Arraez infield.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Sure. I just don't think Verdugo + a starter + a platoon guy is an insulting offer for Kim, & I think Verdugo is the better hitter. Kim's ++ SS defense is obviously far more valuable than Verdugo's avg outfield defense.
I think a lot of people here undervalue Verdugo and Pivetta and overvalue, imho, guys like Wendle. That said, I'd listen to SD when it comes to Kim, as I'm highly interested.
 

chawson

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Marlins are sending Pablo Lopez and prospects to the Twins for Luis Arraez. Any insight on how Miami is going to fit this infield together? At first I thought it might make a Wendle trade more likely but now I'm not sure.

Arraez seems like a poor defender at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and LF. Not sure what to make of the Segura, Wendle, Chisholm, Cooper, Arraez infield.
Is Arraez a poor defender at 2B? Fielding Bible has him as +7 DRS over 858 innings spanning the last three years.

I think it's a great get for the Marlins depending what they do with him. Maybe they flip him too?
 

bosox1534

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Marlins are sending Pablo Lopez and prospects to the Twins for Luis Arraez. Any insight on how Miami is going to fit this infield together? At first I thought it might make a Wendle trade more likely but now I'm not sure.

Arraez seems like a poor defender at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and LF. Not sure what to make of the Segura, Wendle, Chisholm, Cooper, Arraez infield.
My guess is Arraez at 1st, Jazz at 2nd, Wendle at SS, Segura at 3rd with Cooper DHing. Could be one of the better offensive infields in the NL.
 

chawson

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My guess is Arraez at 1st, Jazz at 2nd, Wendle at SS, Segura at 3rd with Cooper DHing. Could be one of the better offensive infields in the NL.
But then they've also got Soler at DH, because he can't play LF and they need to move Bryan de la Cruz out of CF to a corner, and they can't move de la Cruz to RF because they're stuck with García there for three more years. Plus there's also another corner outfielder in Jesus Sanchez.
 

bosox1534

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Yeah they definitely have a plethora of position players. They could flip Soler or Garcia with a prospect to offload the contract I suppose.
 

Cassvt2023

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NY Post's Jon Heyman reported after news of the Arraez trade that Red Sox still looking the FA route, naming Josh Harrison, Elvis Andrus and Jurickson Profar as the targets, seemingly in that order of interest.
 

chawson

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NY Post's Jon Heyman reported after news of the Arraez trade that Red Sox still looking the FA route, naming Josh Harrison, Elvis Andrus and Jurickson Profar as the targets, seemingly in that order of interest.
FWIW, Heyman published that stuff last night. I wouldn't read too much into it. I'm sure he's not inaccurate in saying the Sox have inquired about the costs of Harrison, Andrus and Profar, two of whom are Boras clients. But Heyman doesn't know shit.
 

Cassvt2023

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FWIW, Heyman published that stuff last night. I wouldn't read too much into it. I'm sure he's not inaccurate in saying the Sox have inquired about the costs of Harrison, Andrus and Profar, two of whom are Boras clients. But Heyman doesn't know shit.
They must've updated the article, because it did mention the Arraez/Lopez trade. But i agree, I take everything i read with a grain of salt. Their prices will likely drop the closer we get to ST, Boras clients or not. The fact remains that the Sox NEED another body that can play a middle IF position, preferably an adequate SS. As it stands Kiki, Arroyo, Bobby D for a game, David Hamilton and Anmanuel Valdez? and Story are the only guys on the 40 man roster who have any pro experience playing there. How's that for lack of depth..
 

geoflin

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NY Post's Jon Heyman reported after news of the Arraez trade that Red Sox still looking the FA route, naming Josh Harrison, Elvis Andrus and Jurickson Profar as the targets, seemingly in that order of interest.
Given that the primary need appears to be SS with nobody other than Hernandez on the current roster, Harrison has rarely played there (60 innings in the past 8 years) and Profar hasn't played there since 2018. I don't think either would address that need.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Given that the primary need appears to be SS with nobody other than Hernandez on the current roster, Harrison has rarely played there (60 innings in the past 8 years) and Profar hasn't played there since 2018. I don't think either would address that need.
Hernandez at SS, Arroyo at 2B. Harrison could back up 2B, Arroyo backs up SS. Not ideal but doable.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Given that the primary need appears to be SS with nobody other than Hernandez on the current roster, Harrison has rarely played there (60 innings in the past 8 years) and Profar hasn't played there since 2018. I don't think either would address that need.
Arroyo played more SS for the Sox than anybody not named Xander Bogaerts last year. I suspect that he and Kike could hold down SS if Bloom gets someone who is primarily or only a 2B.
 

Cassvt2023

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Hernandez at SS, Arroyo at 2B. Harrison could back up 2B, Arroyo backs up SS. Not ideal but doable.
Well said. Not ideal by any means. When your starting 2B is your backup SS, and your starting SS is better served in CF, you are certainly lacking in depth. Andrus appears to be the best fit but not sure if he'll take the deal that we have to offer him. Harrison could work, and Profar seems like any emergency plan who really can't play any SS at this point.
 

chawson

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They must've updated the article, because it did mention the Arraez/Lopez trade. But i agree, I take everything i read with a grain of salt. Their prices will likely drop the closer we get to ST, Boras clients or not. The fact remains that the Sox NEED another body that can play a middle IF position, preferably an adequate SS. As it stands Kiki, Arroyo, Bobby D for a game, David Hamilton and Anmanuel Valdez? and Story are the only guys on the 40 man roster who have any pro experience playing there. How's that for lack of depth..
Ha, weird. Leave it to the NY Post.

I think @nvalvo laid it out well in the Tapia thread.

Well this is it. It looks like there are two
alternatives.

One is to play Duvall in CF most days between Yoshida and Verdugo and shift Kiké to the middle infield, where he can link up with Arroyo and Valdez and maybe Wong to hold down SS and 2B. I don’t love that, but it’s viable, and I don’t know the costs of the better options.

(I’m not wild about the FA lower tier shortstop options.)

The other main option is to keep Kiké in the outfield and add a shortstop in trade, likely Kim or (less ambitiously) Wendle. This presumably includes moving Verdugo and Duran as part of the package. This is probably the better defensive situation, and it comes at the cost of whatever you think the offensive step down from Verdugo to Kim/Wendle is likely to be.
I'm also for option B, keeping Kiké in CF, which would likely mean Verdugo is traded.

I think the main reason option A has gotten so much traction is because all the characters are in-house, which reduces speculation. And because it appears to silence the obvious questions about the outfield cluster, and we don't want to appear like we have to trade an outfielder. And maybe we don't! But I don't think the Sox are going plug their elite defensive CF into a full-time shortstop job, especially when he missed 70 games last year with a serious injury.
 

Cassvt2023

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Arroyo played more SS for the Sox than anybody not named Xander Bogaerts last year. I suspect that he and Kike could hold down SS if Bloom gets someone who is primarily or only a 2B.
I'd be fine with this. It means that Arroyo is more of a U player rather than our primary 2B. He is the primary backup SS and can play both corner spots, along with Turner. The wild card is if Valdez could play a serviceable 2B as a backup.
 

AlNipper49

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According to Craig Mish. Miamis # 5 prospect Jose Salas is headed to the Twins in the deal
The other kid is a 19 year old really good lottery ticket. Bleis-like. Miami gave up a lot but what other options did they really have? Their lineup is complete ass.
 

geoflin

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Hernandez at SS, Arroyo at 2B. Harrison could back up 2B, Arroyo backs up SS. Not ideal but doable.
Arroyo played more SS for the Sox than anybody not named Xander Bogaerts last year. I suspect that he and Kike could hold down SS if Bloom gets someone who is primarily or only a 2B.
Yes, Arroyo has played some SS, 170 innings of average SS with a DRS of 1 in his major league career since 2017. So he is capable of playing there in a pinch but I wouldn't want to count on him for anything more than a few days at a time. And behind him in Worcester we have Hamilton and Goodrum (not on the 40 man roster) should either Hernandez or Arroyo get hurt. Agreed, this is far from an ideal situation and I can't imagine Bloom or Cora wanting to begin the season without a more capable SS somewhere in the organization.
Don't get me wrong, I like Arroyo, just not at SS.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Yes, Arroyo has played some SS, 170 innings of average SS with a DRS of 1 in his major league career since 2017. So he is capable of playing there in a pinch but I wouldn't want to count on him for anything more than a few days at a time. And behind him in Worcester we have Hamilton and Goodrum (not on the 40 man roster) should either Hernandez or Arroyo get hurt. Agreed, this is far from an ideal situation and I can't imagine Bloom or Cora wanting to begin the season without a more capable SS somewhere in the organization.
Don't get me wrong, I like Arroyo, just not at SS.
You suggested that they need a SS because they only have Kike that plays there, which is not true. It's not ideal, but it is an option for the two of them to handle the bulk of innings at SS for the time being. Arroyo has had limited opportunity to play SS at the big league level, but I don't think that's necessarily because he can't handle it. He came up with the Giants when Brandon Crawford was well established and in the midst of a Gold Glove season. The Rays had Willy Adames when he was in Tampa. The Sox have had Bogaerts entrenched there since Arroyo has arrived here. As a minor league prospect, Arroyo logged far more innings at SS than anywhere else (2300+ innings). He had to be a utility player just to get himself into the lineup.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Take it all for what it's worth on January 20, but Cora is speaking to the press at the Red Sox Winter Weekend thing, and so far he's said Kike is the SS, Arroyo is the 2B, and Sale is already throwing off a mound and "all systems go". I doubt that means that the roster is complete by any means, but they have a plan in the meantime.

View: https://twitter.com/IanMBrowne/status/1616566220408619008

View: https://twitter.com/IanMBrowne/status/1616566911260581889

View: https://twitter.com/IanMBrowne/status/1616567205428076558
 

YTF

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Take it all for what it's worth on January 20, but Cora is speaking to the press at the Red Sox Winter Weekend thing, and so far he's said Kike is the SS, Arroyo is the 2B, and Sale is already throwing off a mound and "all systems go". I doubt that means that the roster is complete by any means, but they have a plan in the meantime.

View: https://twitter.com/IanMBrowne/status/1616566220408619008

View: https://twitter.com/IanMBrowne/status/1616566911260581889

View: https://twitter.com/IanMBrowne/status/1616567205428076558
Agreed, I hope that we all remember the roster composition on the date that Cora said this. He's not going to talk about players under contract with other teams and he's not going to speculate about additional FA signings. Nor should he.
 

Ale Xander

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Trying to bring down the price for trade/FA, i suppose
But if not, starters seem “set” (other than CF/RF being Duvall/Dugo or vice versa and Turner/Casas DH/1B or vice versa)
 
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JM3

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Trying to bring down the price for trade/FA, i suppose
But if not, starters seem “set” (other than CF/RF being Duvall/Dugo or vise versa and Turner/Casas DH/1B or vise versa)
Duvall would be the CF & Casas would be the 1B.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Arroyo eventually gets hurt. But if he can just stay pretty healthy until July or so, that could be huge. We could be getting Story back around then, and/or one of Raffaela, Valdez or Hamilton might be doing great in Worcester and be ready to come up.
If none of those options is available, it would be trade season soon anyway, and we can try to add someone then if we are still in the playoff hunt.
 

bosox1534

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Pass. Such a low floor, and where would he play in two years? His bat won't carry him anywhere else.
I mean the Tigers would have to include a decent amount of cash, and he could hold down short until Mayer is ready to go, so we wouldn’t have to worry about rushing his development. I’m sure he will be able to find at bats even when Mayer is ready. As much as I like Story there’s no guarantee he is going to stay healthy each season. Even at his worst he is a 3 WAR player.
 

grimshaw

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The New York Post's Jon Heyman says the Rockies and Marlins came closeto a deal involving Brendan Rodgers and Edward Cabrera before the Rockies backed off. (Probably the right call for Colorado here. As talented as Cabrera is, he's long struggled to stay healthy, having not put in a completely full season since 2018. If the Marlins had been willing to part with Jesus Luzardo instead, a trade might have been more likely.)

Interesting that Brendan Rodgers is on the market. He came up as a shortstop but was obviously blocked by Story. He had 22 DRS at 2b last season 2nd in baseball.
 

OCD SS

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View: https://twitter.com/jakeiggy/status/1616580303509770241?s=46&t=CrkCVAo889N5IAxwXb377g

Obviously a rough contract, but he could translate well to Boston and he easily could have a bounce back year.
Last off season, Baez was the SS who I was hoping would be left without a seat and the Sox would be able to scoop up as a plus defender who could play 2B and cover for X if he left... of course I was also hoping that the plate discipline he showed with the Mets would stick a bit more and unfortunately the Red Sox have gotten more aggressive and lost some of their trademark discipline, so I don't know that they'll be able to get a new approach to stick...

That said, he's durable and is at least decent defensively; if the Tigers are just looking to dump him and pick up a lot of the money so that it's mostly low risk then it makes a lot sense.
 

E5 Yaz

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Before everyone gets their hopes up for a big trade, remember they have to clear a roster spot for Duvall and it might simply be that this is what Bloom was referencing
 

BigSoxFan

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Before everyone gets their hopes up for a big trade, remember they have to clear a roster spot for Duvall and it might simply be that this is what Bloom was referencing
Too late. I’ve already bought my Ohtani Sox jersey.
 

EyeBob

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I'm being slightly hyperbolic there. I see Pivetta as the SP version of Renfroe: a useful back-end player with an established ceiling, but the late arb years are costly enough that you could probably do better, either by acclimating a young pitcher to the role or paying a little more money for a premium one.

Which is preferable? 1) Pay Pivetta $10 million to put up a 4.50 FIP/110 ERA+ across 160 innings (below-average durability), 2) Pay a much better free agent pitcher $15-20 million with the reasonable hope that he'd be much better, or 3) Break in a young pitcher who projects much the same as Pivetta but with a lower floor, paying him pre-arb rates.
It depends upon how well you spend the money you save by choosing #3.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I remember playing a game of Triple Play 98 on my computer where I had both Mo Vaughn and Bernie Williams on the Red Sox. By the time the game was over, Vaughn signed with the Angels and Bernie with the Yankees
Oh, man! I'd say that this is the saddest sentence ever posted on SoSH, but it's in fact two sentences. In any event, it's a tough read. :(