Red Sox Rumors - Just Kidding

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lurker
Jul 18, 2005
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if the Sox offered something like 4/120 and the Padres offered 6/175, I won’t fault our front office. If we offered a lot less over a short period of time (like 4 years), I hope him signing elsewhere is immediately followed by us signing a great player with those same dollars rather than spreading them out for mediocrity. We won’t know until it’s all done, though.
I for one would like to give Bloom the benefit of the doubt and not jump to conclusions
until we see where we end up assuming ownership has truly given him the green light
to fix this team. As I have said before I believe that we have to go the extra mile to sign Xander for several reasons, extend Devers and acquire a top of the rotation pitcher and
a top of the lineup outfielder. This is the year to spend if they really are serious about contending.
 

YTF

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I really think Chaim was never interested in him, really never believed in the defense. Feels like he's gone. The Padres are really going to put him at 1st? You'd think Ha-Seong Kim would cede starting SS position.

I am also wondering, as fans try to convince themselves its' playoffs or bust for Chaim this year, if Chaim has sold ownership on quite a long-term retool rebuild plan for a big market. The proverbial penny might never drop this offseason, I say.
I'm not 100% sure that this is how this works. I'm guessing that if the Padres decide to sign Bogaerts his position on the field will have already been discussed/decided.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Xander deleted his twitter back in like 2014 after some media jerk decided that it was newsworthy that a young man followed some scantily clad models on his social media accounts.
I remember that, but I think there was more to it than that.

I think it was something like he was posting photos of himself in boxers on said model’s Twitter. Also, he was potentially doing so during Red Sox games. I think. I might be wrong.
 

Max Power

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I remember that, but I think there was more to it than that.

I think it was something like he was posting photos of himself in boxers on said model’s Twitter. Also, he was potentially doing so during Red Sox games. I think. I might be wrong.
I think it was Panda who was using his phone while taking a dump in the clubhouse during the game.
 
due to years of contract? and not $$$. (or not strictly)..

Interesting
Makes perfect sense to me. The problem isn't the AAV this year or next year, it's whether the team will be on the hook for the money later in the decade when we really want to be signing top tier FA talent to support a developed young core.

if the Sox offered something like 4/120 and the Padres offered 6/175, I won’t fault our front office. If we offered a lot less over a short period of time (like 4 years), I hope him signing elsewhere is immediately followed by us signing a great player with those same dollars rather than spreading them out for mediocrity. We won’t know until it’s all done, though.
This is absolutely where I'm at. I'm all for the team being aggressive with a high $ amount but shorter years. Contend now without selling out the back half of the decade.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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1. If it's too much to ask to wait until the offseason is over before freaking out about...the offseason...can we at least wait until after the GM meetings?
2. If Xander signs elsewhere it is really going to be suck. Like everyone else here, I won't like it. At all. But I am confident that the Sox have a plan and will spend in salary and perhaps prospects to improve the team.
3. I wish Sam Kennedy would be quiet. I get the sense that he's feeling frustrated that all of these rumors are swirling, and that the Sox are perhaps being used for leverage, but that's part of the deal when you're the Red Sox and I think it would be better for him to just say nothing.
Re: Point 1…have you met SoSH?

Heartily agree with everything above. We’re not even at December, only one big name has signed, and we are spending entirely too much energy reading into tweets based on partial knowledge (or no knowledge, in many cases).
 

AlNipper49

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Xander deleted his twitter back in like 2014 after some media jerk decided that it was newsworthy that a young man followed some scantily clad models on his social media accounts.
lol. To be more accurate, Xander figured out how to create new, anonymous profiles for his extracurricular perving. ;)
 
Sep 12, 2022
188
As long as they resign Devers I will be happy. He will get a $300 million dollar contract, unfortunately it was that terrible Chris Sale contract that cost the Red Sox some great players. I learned a long time ago never pay big for pitchers who only start 35 games a year over regular players who play 150 games a year. The old debate was would you trade Jim Rice for Ron Guidry? Well, Jimmy Rice is in the Hall of Fame. This Chris Sale contract is costing the Red Sox. Luckily only two more years to go.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Makes perfect sense to me. The problem isn't the AAV this year or next year, it's whether the team will be on the hook for the money later in the decade when we really want to be signing top tier FA talent to support a developed young core.



This is absolutely where I'm at. I'm all for the team being aggressive with a high $ amount but shorter years. Contend now without selling out the back half of the decade.
The problem is that as long as there are other teams that are willing to commit to expensive contracts longer than four years, this team's current philosophy will result in them almost never being able to retain their home grown talent beyond arbitration or sign a premium FA.
 

joe dokes

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The problem is that as long as there are other teams that are willing to commit to expensive contracts longer than four years, this team's current philosophy will result in them almost never being able to retain their home grown talent beyond arbitration or sign a premium FA.
Unless they channel the aggressive spending *into* that homegrown talent, like the Braves have.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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As long as they resign Devers I will be happy. He will get a $300 million dollar contract, unfortunately it was that terrible Chris Sale contract that cost the Red Sox some great players. I learned a long time ago never pay big for pitchers who only start 35 games a year over regular players who play 150 games a year. The old debate was would you trade Jim Rice for Ron Guidry? Well, Jimmy Rice is in the Hall of Fame. This Chris Sale contract is costing the Red Sox. Luckily only two more years to go.
This is a common refrain, but it's a gross over-simplification of the situation. Sale's contract alone isn't preventing and hasn't prevented the Sox from doing anything. It only gets the blame due to the timing/proximity to Dombrowski's firing and the Betts trade. It would be just as easy and accurate to point to the David Price contract or the JD Martinez contract or the Nate Eovaldi contract as costing the Red Sox great players.

Not to mention framing it like that takes away all agency and responsibility from the players as well. They have a say in it too.
 
As long as they resign Devers I will be happy. He will get a $300 million dollar contract, unfortunately it was that terrible Chris Sale contract that cost the Red Sox some great players. I learned a long time ago never pay big for pitchers who only start 35 games a year over regular players who play 150 games a year. The old debate was would you trade Jim Rice for Ron Guidry? Well, Jimmy Rice is in the Hall of Fame. This Chris Sale contract is costing the Red Sox. Luckily only two more years to go.
Position players are far from immune to this kind of contract trajectory. I'm sure you remember Carl Crawford -- free agent on the right side of 30 having put up 7 straight seasons averaging about 5 fWAR each and then BAM, he's a near replacement player averaging .7 fWAR per year over the remainder of his contract (less if you count the final year that he didn't even play). Over the 7 years of that contract he only played over 100 games in 3 of them.

The problem is that as long as there are other teams that are willing to commit to expensive contracts longer than four years, this team's current philosophy will result in them almost never being able to retain their home grown talent beyond arbitration or sign a premium FA.
I'm not suggesting that the Sox should never be willing to give long years to players. It's about where the player is in the aging curve and where the team is in its talent cycle. Right now the Red Sox have very little young talent, but that's likely to change in the next few years. You want to commit to big FA contracts as your farm graduates its best players so that you have the likely best years of those FAs coinciding with the breakouts of your young stars. That's in part why I'm more OK with big years for Devers than I am for X. Unless there is something specific about Devers' skillset or medicals that suggests otherwise, he's more likely to still be producing at a high level in the middle of the decade. There's a very good chance X's contract will be dead money by then.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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This is a common refrain, but it's a gross over-simplification of the situation. Sale's contract alone isn't preventing and hasn't prevented the Sox from doing anything. It only gets the blame due to the timing/proximity to Dombrowski's firing and the Betts trade. It would be just as easy and accurate to point to the David Price contract or the JD Martinez contract or the Nate Eovaldi contract (or going back further, the Panda contract or the Hanley contract) as costing the Red Sox great players.

Not to mention framing it like that takes away all agency and responsibility from the players as well. They have a say in it too.
 

Rice4HOF

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Position players are far from immune to this kind of contract trajectory. I'm sure you remember Carl Crawford -- free agent on the right side of 30 having put up 7 straight seasons averaging about 5 fWAR each and then BAM, he's a near replacement player averaging .7 fWAR per year over the remainder of his contract
Even Ken Griffey Jr. wasn’t immune from this fate. After being traded to the Reds after having accumulated 71 WAR through his age 29 season, he put up 5.5 bWAR in his age 30 season, but then only averaged 1.2 per season during the rest of his career.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, actually if you go through the biggest deals ever signed, the pitchers performed a lot better than the hitters on average.
 

Max Power

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That makes some sense intuitively. Free agent contracts generally start around a player's age 30 season. Pitchers performing at an All Star level in their mid and late 30s is not at all unusual whereas a position player being good after 35 doesn't happen very often. The risk of a major injury is much higher with a pitcher, but falling off a performance cliff is much less likely.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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The success of big money pitching contracts is almost completely confined to the guys going to the HOF- Scherzer, Verlander, Kershaw, Greinke, and TBD, Cole. The next tier down of guys like Strasburg, Bumgarner, Sale, Price, King Felix, Corbin, etc have been overall, pretty bad. Most of the deals signed last year look pretty meh (Stroman, Ray, E-Rod). Part of it is just that there aren’t really a lot of good free agent aged starting pitchers these days, for whatever reason. E-Rod is like the winningest pitcher under the age of 30 IIRC and didn’t seem to be much demand for him last year.
 

ehaz

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The success of big money pitching contracts is almost completely confined to the guys going to the HOF- Scherzer, Verlander, Kershaw, Greinke, and TBD, Cole. The next tier down of guys like Strasburg, Bumgarner, Sale, Price, King Felix, Corbin, etc have been overall, pretty bad. Most of the deals signed last year look pretty meh (Stroman, Ray, E-Rod). Part of it is just that there aren’t really a lot of good free agent aged starting pitchers these days, for whatever reason. E-Rod is like the winningest pitcher under the age of 30 IIRC and didn’t seem to be much demand for him last year.
It's early but Gausman just led the American League in FIP and K/BB in his first season in TOR. Zack Wheeler has been maybe one of the two or three most valuable pitchers in all of baseball for the first three years of a contract that many considered an overpay at the time. Lester and the two largest posting contracts (Tanaka and Darvish) were good value.

It's easy. You just have to choose to pay the guy that doesn't suck!
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Good call on Wheeler, he’s certainly been excellent. And same goes for Gausman who had a pretty meh career until ‘21. Next year may be the year to after a starter; Nola, Severino, Ohtani, Giolito, Urias, Flaherty, Montgomery…a pretty good group.
 

chawson

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It's early but Gausman just led the American League in FIP and K/BB in his first season in TOR. Zack Wheeler has been maybe one of the two or three most valuable pitchers in all of baseball for the first three years of a contract that many considered an overpay at the time. Lester and the two largest posting contracts (Tanaka and Darvish) were good value.

It's easy. You just have to choose to pay the guy that doesn't suck!
Seems like some other holistic factors involved too. It wasn't that long ago that ace pitchers were seen as having a sort of innate ability that warranted enormous contracts. Now, the availability of Driveline and other performance training systems have elevated a lot of otherwise so-so arms into very useful pitchers, which seems to have flattened the upper tier a bit. That, plus more smart teams pouring money into advanced international scouting, and you've got more alternatives to dropping $150M+ on an ace.
 

EvilEmpire

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Yankees got fair value out of Tanaka's seven year deal, so I think that is another one that worked out for a good but not elite guy.
 

nighthob

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This is a common refrain, but it's a gross over-simplification of the situation. Sale's contract alone isn't preventing and hasn't prevented the Sox from doing anything. It only gets the blame due to the timing/proximity to Dombrowski's firing and the Betts trade. It would be just as easy and accurate to point to the David Price contract or the JD Martinez contract or the Nate Eovaldi contract as costing the Red Sox great players.
The difference is that the unnecessary Sale extension has cost Boston roughly $30 million per WAR, Price was a more economical $12 million per. But it's a fact that those underperforming contracts were weighing down their payroll and Boston needed to lose one. Pity it couldn't have been Sale's.
 

Pat Spillane

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Feb 12, 2021
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The old debate was would you trade Jim Rice for Ron Guidry? Well, Jimmy Rice is in the Hall of Fame. This Chris Sale contract is costing the Red Sox. Luckily only two more years to go.
Its definetly a safer bet to go with the outfield players than the pitchers but problem is If the top of your rotations is full of Rich Hill's and Michael Wachas you are probably not going to win anything. You have to take the gambles on the Sales and De Grom's of this world. We badly read the Sale signing but without pitchers of that ilk winning is not going to happen
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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sale at least can still provide value
The difference is that the unnecessary Sale extension has cost Boston roughly $30 million per WAR, Price was a more economical $12 million per. But it's a fact that those underperforming contracts were weighing down their payroll and Boston needed to lose one. Pity it couldn't have been Sale's.
 

moondog80

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Haniger is an interesting player, but one that does not move the needle. When he's healthy, he's a good hitter but he's only had 2 such seasons since 2018.
Haniger is fine if they also add another Haniger-type, one of the top SS, an Eovaldi/Senga SP, and some bullpen help. Which I still think is the template.
 

Alex Cole's Rec Specs

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Just sourcing my statement about Haniger's reputation in the clubhouse (from Jen McCaffrey in The Athletic, 11/18/22)

Haniger had a solid 2021 season with 23 doubles and 39 homers and 100 RBIs in 157 games while hitting .253 with an .804 OPS. But he missed more than half of 2019 and all of 2020 with surgery for a ruptured testicle followed by core/hernia surgery. After his strong comeback in 2021, he missed another three months in 2022 with a high ankle sprain. Haniger is a power hitter who strikes out a decent —though not quite alarming — clip with a 26.3 percent rate this year. In right field, where he’s spent the majority of his career, he posted a plus-2 Outs Above Average last year and is generally regarded as an above-average fielder. He’s noted as a strong clubhouse presence and would be a welcome veteran presence for the Red Sox. He turns 32 in December. Haniger could be a cheaper middle-of-the-order bat who could provide power to the lineup even if there are durability questions. He’s projected by FanGraphs and MLB Trade Rumors to land a three-year deal in the $24-40 million range.
 

PrometheusWakefield

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At this point the roster really needs solid, everyday major leaguers. Given's Haniger's pull power and excellent clubhouse reputation, sign me up.
I came here to say the exact opposite! I hate the idea of shopping in the 2 WAR aisle. We need to be able to trust in our minor league system or smart under the radar picks to fill out the roster. We should be using the money to bring in players with star power. Are we aiming to win 81 games or trying to win a championship?

Haniger is just another guy in an outfield that already has a bunch of just another guys.
 

Yo La Tengo

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Hanigar had a very good 2017, appearing in 96 games and an excellent 2018: .285 .366 .493 with 26 home runs
In 2019, he hit a foul ball into his crotch which caused a ruptured testicle, requiring three surgeries and almost 2 years of recovery.
In 2021, he had a very good season: .253 .318 .429 with 39 home runs.
In 2022, he got covid, then sprained his ankle, then hurt his back. In the 57 games that he played, he put up good numbers: .261 .335 .476 with 11 home runs.

He turns 32 this month and is considered an adequate defender to above average defender. I'd rather see a 2 year deal but I'm guessing he'll be in demand.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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I've always liked Haniger, and it's not really fair to count the ruptured testicle as part of an "injury prone" history. His injuries this past season make it seem like a pattern, but it also makes him significantly cheaper I'm guessing. There's value to be had there if he doesn't cost too much (I know, that's a big if).
 

chawson

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Adding Haniger seems like a pretty solid launching point for the offseason. It's a clear sign we're looking to compete in 2023 (if there was any doubt), and helps address a glaring hole at DH/RF, which we'd probably still add to later on.

He's got a really, really good Fenway swing and I think he'd have a great year or two here.
 

RedOctober3829

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Adding Haniger seems like a pretty solid launching point for the offseason. It's a clear sign we're looking to compete in 2023 (if there was any doubt), and helps address a glaring hole at DH/RF, which we'd probably still add to later on.

He's got a really, really good Fenway swing and I think he'd have a great year or two here.
He has the potential to be a Hunter Renfroe-type season if he stays healthy. Good power, decent in the OF(Haniger is better than Renfroe there). But, that's more of a depth signing. There had better be more to Bloom's offseason than adding those types. He did this last year with the pitching staff in terms of getting injury risks and relying on them to stay healthy.
 

OCD SS

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He has the potential to be a Hunter Renfroe-type season if he stays healthy. Good power, decent in the OF(Haniger is better than Renfroe there). But, that's more of a depth signing. There had better be more to Bloom's offseason than adding those types. He did this last year with the pitching staff in terms of getting injury risks and relying on them to stay healthy.
Unless you are ‘Judge or bust’, what move are you seeing in the OF that makes more sense? The team will have its stars, but to compete Bloom should also fill in players around the stars with reliable everyday players, instead of sub-replacement guys who are just sucking chest wounds in the lineup.
 

RedOctober3829

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Unless you are ‘Judge or bust’, what move are you seeing in the OF that makes more sense? The team will have its stars, but to compete Bloom should also fill in players around the stars with reliable everyday players, instead of sub-replacement guys who are just sucking chest wounds in the lineup.
I hope you're right on the stars comment. I think Haniger would be a decent move, but if these types of move are the crux of the offseason instead of this being buoyed by bigger moves then I will be disappointed.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Unless you are ‘Judge or bust’, what move are you seeing in the OF that makes more sense? The team will have its stars, but to compete Bloom should also fill in players around the stars with reliable everyday players, instead of sub-replacement guys who are just sucking chest wounds in the lineup.
They are running out of roster spots; if they add Haniger they still need a SS, obviously, (or 2B if Story can play SS I guess), and another bat who could play some combo of 1b/dh/c, I think.
 

catomatic

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He'd be our Mitchy One-Bags.
Wall-ball singles are that one-bag to which I presume you’re referring?

After testicular cancer that required the surgical removal of the affected region, John Kruk showed up to the 1st day of Phillies ST wearing a T-Shirt reading; “If you guys don’t play nice, I’m going to take my ball and go home.”

Haniger, huh? That’s our out-of-the-gate priority? Especially in light of Sam Kennedy’s fluffing of the Fenway faithful, I can’t say my hopes for ‘23 are bolstered too much by this report. Bring me news of XB and RD or keep your trap shut, Sam.

EDIT: Grammar
 

BaseballJones

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Haniger seems like a pretty solid player, numbers-wise, as long as he can stay on the field. Nothing wrong with signing him.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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Wall-ball singles are that one-bag to which I presume you’re referring?

After testicular cancer that required the surgical removal of the affected region, John Kruk showed up to the 1st day of Phillies ST wearing a T-Shirt reading; “If you guys don’t play nice, I’m going to take my ball and go home.”

Haniger, huh? That’s our out-of-the-gate priority? Especially in light of Sam Kennedy’s fluffing of the Fenway faithful, I can’t say my hopes for ‘23 are bolstered too much by this report. Bring me news of XB and RD or keep your trap shut, Sam.

EDIT: Grammar
Hey all he said was that “Something could happen at any minute”. He never said it would be a huge signing. This would definitely fall into the category of “something”.
 

mr_smith02

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Hey all he said was that “Something could happen at any minute”. He never said it would be a huge signing. This would definitely fall into the category of “something”.
I will take anything at this point so I have something else to think about aside from which SoSHer is closest to heading to the penalty box for a salty or poorly vetted post...though this could be a fun break-out poll.